Bully Master 1 doesn't do much of anything [Archive]

View Full Version : Bully Master 1 doesn't do much of anything

09-15-2005, 10:27 AM

So tonight I was grouping with some people and a pally was tanking. We're both 50, ebon armor, etc. I chose STR for each of the /respec upgrades, have a prismatic greatsword, offensive stance, and tried to taunt. I have Bully at master 1 and Promise of Violence at ad3. Pally had the aggro. I used both of those...three times...that's SIX taunts in a row, and I did not get aggro. [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]? When I was tanking for the group I was constantly losing aggro to people I've been playing with for quite a while, losing aggro like crazy. This sucks. The point of being a berserker is to have aggro, to be able to snag aggro. And with Bully at master 1 I can't grab aggro from a pally, after using SIX taunts in a row? Come on. Fix this. <div></div>Message Edited by Taar on 09-14-2005 11:31 PM

Chog

09-15-2005, 11:34 AM

<DIV>If you could not steal agro from the Paladin that means the Paladin was doing his job. We are all fighters after all :smileywink:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As far as loosing agro...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <UL> <LI>In a multiple mob encounter either do not let the healers pre-ward / reactive you or make sure your Encounter taunt lands before a mob hits you. </LI> <LI>Our HTL line of spells are great at ensuring we keep agro from overzelous AoE casters.</LI> <LI>Rampage + Stunning cry line = permanent agro.</LI> <LI>If no Mezzers AoE to your hearts content.</LI></UL> The only time I lost agro was at the very start of a fight when the mobs would hit me before my Encounter taunt would land. I would then be stifled / stunned and had to gain the hate back pronto since the Wizzard would be getting hit (Ice comet landing not knowing no taunts landed + tank stifled / stunned = bad). If you want to steal agro from anybody (accept other zerkers that use the same strategy) while on a multiple mob encounter. Rampage + Stunning Cry line = your encounter to tank. Do not attempt this on a tough encounter in offensive stance, you will die :smileysad:

Wrathcast

09-15-2005, 04:37 PM

Ok noob questions here, but when you say "offensive stance" what are you talking about? Is there a "offensive stance" ability now?

Laoch69

09-15-2005, 07:08 PM

Yes there is an offensive and defensive stance. As for the original poster "losing" aggro. Are you using a heroic taunt at the start of the fight, are you the puller or is the paladin?

Sokolov

09-15-2005, 08:07 PM

The stances are mutually exclusive but can be changed on the fly. <div></div>

09-16-2005, 04:06 AM

What I'm saying is, before the combat changes casting Bully and Promise of Violence was enough to grab aggro most of the time. Now I seldom see that happen, and sometimes I don't get aggro even after multiple castings of both. We've lost a lot of our ability to hold and grab aggro. Even though numerically the taunts generate more hate (bully master 1 does something like 700-950 hate), they are outweighed by hate generated by the other classes due to the combat changes. And the comment about using Rampage, yeah well that's useful once every half hour, so I'm not counting on that as a primary means of controlling aggro.

Chog

09-16-2005, 04:45 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Taar wrote: What I'm saying is, before the combat changes casting Bully and Promise of Violence was enough to grab aggro most of the time. Now I seldom see that happen, and sometimes I don't get aggro even after multiple castings of both. We've lost a lot of our ability to hold and grab aggro. Even though numerically the taunts generate more hate (bully master 1 does something like 700-950 hate), they are outweighed by hate generated by the other classes due to the combat changes. And the comment about using Rampage, yeah well that's useful once every half hour, so I'm not counting on that as a primary means of controlling aggro. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Skills have changed. You can not use the same methods to get hate that you used pre-combat changes and expect everything to work. Numbers are meaningless when trying to compare post / pre revamp. Using only adept 1 skills I have no trouble maintaining agro, and that is with a Wizard in the group with Adept 3 Ice Comet.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>BTW: Rampage is on a 3 minute timer not 30.</DIV>

Laoch69

09-16-2005, 08:17 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Taar wrote: What I'm saying is, before the combat changes casting Bully and Promise of Violence was enough to grab aggro most of the time. Now I seldom see that happen, and sometimes I don't get aggro even after multiple castings of both. We've lost a lot of our ability to hold and grab aggro. Even though numerically the taunts generate more hate (bully master 1 does something like 700-950 hate), they are outweighed by hate generated by the other classes due to the combat changes. And the comment about using Rampage, yeah well that's useful once every half hour, so I'm not counting on that as a primary means of controlling aggro. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> If that is all you were using to "get" aggro prior to the patch, I applaud you. I would pull, as I pulled I would cast 2 of my 10 minute buffs (war tides and screaming fury). Then I would start a heroic wheel, get a heroic taunt on the monsters, and then, only then would my group members unload. You may have to change your tactics with the new patch. I am having zero problem with aggro with the new update. In fact, they made it easier, as now, I don't cast my 10 minute buffs everytime I pull. I just throw out a heroic taunt, and I am set for the fight. (as long as I get another taunt here or there during the heroic wheel opportunities).

09-17-2005, 12:09 AM

<blockquote>If that is all you were using to "get" aggro prior to the patch</blockquote>Reread my original post, I wasn't talking about being the puller and what skills I use at the beginning of a fight. I was talking about casting six taunts as rapidly as they'd refresh and not being able to pull aggro from a paladin that already had it. Also that night I had a hard time keeping aggro off a ranger. Now last night was different, as the group tank I didn't have a hard time keeping aggro or pulling it off the dps when they got it. The buffs group members put on us, and/or the amount of dps other players do, seem to have more of an effect than it used to.Message Edited by Taar on 09-16-2005 01:09 PM

deathsangel44

09-17-2005, 06:44 AM

Tarr, I feel zerks are best OFF tanking.Tanking is boring and I don't like it.Leave that for the true meat shields---guards.We are a combo of dps-fall back tank.As far as aggro, I would give up taunts to get better dps or dot spells. Remember,read the guide that came with the game,page 27.That is the reason we all picked this class.We are NOT meant to be the "defence of our allies" [page 27] as guards are.Now with the new update SOE should make our class what they described in their manual.Quote---" their furious attacks overwhelm their opponents,TO WHOM THEY SHOW NO MERCY",Face it, thats why we picked this class.SOE make it so! Message Edited by deathsangel44 on 09-16-2005 10:45 PM

Chog

09-17-2005, 09:42 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> deathsangel44 wrote: Tarr, I feel zerks are best OFF tanking.Tanking is boring and I don't like it.Leave that for the true meat shields---guards.We are a combo of dps-fall back tank.As far as aggro, I would give up taunts to get better dps or dot spells. Remember,read the guide that came with the game,page 27.That is the reason we all picked this class.We are NOT meant to be the "defence of our allies" [page 27] as guards are.Now with the new update SOE should make our class what they described in their manual.Quote---" their furious attacks overwhelm their opponents,TO WHOM THEY SHOW NO MERCY",Face it, thats why we picked this class.SOE make it so! Message Edited by deathsangel44 on 09-16-2005 10:45 PM <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Glad you are able to speak for all Zerkers. I never read the manual though, so I can honestly say that is not why I picked a Zerker.

-Aonein-

09-17-2005, 06:34 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Taar wrote: So tonight I was grouping with some people and a pally was tanking. We're both 50, ebon armor, etc. I chose STR for each of the /respec upgrades, have a prismatic greatsword, offensive stance, and tried to taunt. I have Bully at master 1 and Promise of Violence at ad3. Pally had the aggro. I used both of those...three times...that's SIX taunts in a row, and I did not get aggro. [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]? When I was tanking for the group I was constantly losing aggro to people I've been playing with for quite a while, losing aggro like crazy. This sucks. The point of being a berserker is to have aggro, to be able to snag aggro. And with Bully at master 1 I can't grab aggro from a pally, after using SIX taunts in a row? Come on. Fix this. Message Edited by Taar on 09-14-2005 11:31 PM <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Sounds to me your Pally is using his Redemption line on you, the more you taunt, the better his agro control will be, the more damage you do to the mob, the even better his agro generation will be. The Paladins Redemption line takes the agro generated by the person the Paladin buffs with it and transfers that agro to the Pally, so from what you describe, its working quite well. As for you losing agro to your group that you have grouped with for quite some time, its going to take awhile before people adjust to the new way agro is generated and controlled, give it time, give your friends time to adjust and most importantly when you are tanking, ask them to give you a 5 seconds start if they cant help themselves and fell the need to chain nuke. I chose Master II Offending Defense, i have Bully Adept I, Violent Promise Adept I, Fearsome Shout Adept I and i dont lose agro ever even to a chain nuking wizard, also can keep agro from a Assassin after he blows Assinate. Chosing Master II Offending Defense is the best choice ive made since before the patch when i chose Balok's Furious Shout.

z2xm

09-17-2005, 10:15 PM

As said by others, one of the main reasons I have lost agro recently is simply because the people I usually group are so use to me never losing it that they never really had to think about agro. I mean my scout would constantly nail stuff with her biggest hit right away just to get in an effect that needed the mob to hit her because she knew I would immediatly take agro back, even if her lie low was down. However now when people pull that kind of crap, they just die. Most people were used to tanks being alble to get and hold agro in pretty much any scenario, now however, people will need to learn. When people steal my agro because of something stupid, I let them die and then say, look I was maxed out on agro generation (which I am always doing) so you need to tgone it down. Wizards and rangers I have noticed are the biggest parties guilty of this. And after they die once or twice they figure out, hey I guess I really do need to keep it down. Jinos L'DL