No more haste stacking from items....

[-Aonein-]

<DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testfeed&message.id=27250#M27250" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testfeed&message.id=27250#M27250</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV>The way haste items currently stack is being changed.  While the specifics are still being worked out, the general result will make it more like EQ in that you will be able to stack an item haste with a spell haste and maybe another specific type, but you won't be able to stack each haste type infinitely with itself.</DIV> <P>===========================<BR>Steve Danuser, a.k.a. Moorgard<BR>Game Designer, EverQuest II</P> <P></P> <HR> <P> </P> <P>Truely a sad day to see them reverting back to the EQ system in reguards to haste.</P> <P>So much for EQ2 not being a sequel to EQlive, the more these changes come in, the more it looks like a sequel.</P></DIV>

[Donners]

Yes and whats bad about that? It was actually 100 % sure that this kind of change will come ..or did you really think 300 % haste are normal? :smileywink:

[-Aonein-]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Donnersam wrote:<BR> Yes and whats bad about that? It was actually 100 % sure that this kind of change will come ..or did you really think 300 % haste are normal? :smileywink:<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>300% haste?</P> <P>Im trying for the life of me to understand what has happened to real logical thinking on forums boards lately.</P> <P>With EQlive people came up with data compliations that were so intense and so long it made your eyes bleed reading them, it was like reading binary, but now we have people on forums who over react and exagerate beyond belief it isnt funny.</P> <P>No offence to you Donnersam, but tell me your joking in reguards to 300% haste?</P>

[Pin StNeedl]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> -Aonein- wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Donnersam wrote:<BR> Yes and whats bad about that? It was actually 100 % sure that this kind of change will come ..or did you really think 300 % haste are normal? :smileywink:<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>300% haste?</P> <P>Im trying for the life of me to understand what has happened to real logical thinking on forums boards lately.</P> <P>With EQlive people came up with data compliations that were so intense and so long it made your eyes bleed reading them, it was like reading binary, but now we have people on forums who over react and exagerate beyond belief it isnt funny.</P> <P>No offence to you Donnersam, but tell me your joking in reguards to 300% haste?</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>What joke? Berserkers group-buff haste by 60%. Self-buff by another 50% (or give a 50% proc from Vehemence to another which stacks with their own ~50% haste buffs). Illusionists buff by 60%. Bards group buff by 30%... That's 200% from buffs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Then there's 20% haste rings, 20% haste bracers, 15/20% haste belts. I have a 30% haste 2handed weapon, 20% haste shield and a 1H weapon with a 20% haste proc. Or there's 20% haste DW weapons, 20% haste medium forearms... 100% from items is easy.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Seriously, with the current system, 250-300% haste is not hard to acheive for any raiding melee class.</DIV>

[Miller]

<P>What about CA and haste items? will they still stack? like when you berserk abd have FBSS?</P> <P>Miller Of Najena</P>

[Donners]

<DIV>@ Miller     Yes they will stack. Change will make it just so Item haste wont stack with each other.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>@ Aonein    Please before you make fun of ppl research some stuff first :smileyhappy:</DIV>

[-Aonein-]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Pin StNeedles wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> -Aonein- wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Donnersam wrote:<BR> Yes and whats bad about that? It was actually 100 % sure that this kind of change will come ..or did you really think 300 % haste are normal? :smileywink:<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>300% haste?</P> <P>Im trying for the life of me to understand what has happened to real logical thinking on forums boards lately.</P> <P>With EQlive people came up with data compliations that were so intense and so long it made your eyes bleed reading them, it was like reading binary, but now we have people on forums who over react and exagerate beyond belief it isnt funny.</P> <P>No offence to you Donnersam, but tell me your joking in reguards to 300% haste?</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>What joke? Berserkers group-buff haste by 60%. Self-buff by another 50% (or give a 50% proc from Vehemence to another which stacks with their own ~50% haste buffs). Illusionists buff by 60%. Bards group buff by 30%... That's 200% from buffs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Then there's 20% haste rings, 20% haste bracers, 15/20% haste belts. I have a 30% haste 2handed weapon, 20% haste shield and a 1H weapon with a 20% haste proc. Or there's 20% haste DW weapons, 20% haste medium forearms... 100% from items is easy.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Seriously, with the current system, 250-300% haste is not hard to acheive for any raiding melee class.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>LOL and how many people have these items to increase there haste above 300% Pin most of which are super rare and havent even been seen by some high raiding guilds who have been farming the instances that drop them for 4 months straight? 100+% from a high end raiding guild might be easy for you, lol but not for people who dont raid every single day not to mention a player having every single one of these items is rare. Could it be possible for someone to gain every single one of these items? Sure it could, but not a ground breaking flaw in the system because of the rarity of the items.</P> <P>Seems alot of people seem to forget that no not everyone is in a high end raiding guild, yet they compare everything to a raiding guild.</P><p>Message Edited by -Aonein- on <span class=date_text>09-06-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:01 AM</span>

[Pin StNeedl]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> -Aonein- wrote:<BR> <P>LOL and how many people have these items to increase there haste above 300% Pin most of which are super rare and havent even been seen by some high raiding guilds who have been farming the instances that drop them for 4 months straight? 100+% from a high end raiding guild might be easy for you, lol but not for people who dont raid every single day not to mention a player having every single one of these items is rare. Could it be possible for someone to gain every single one of these items? Sure it could, but not a ground breaking flaw in the system because of the rarity of the items.</P> <P>Seems alot of people seem to forget that no not everyone is in a high end raiding guild, yet they compare everything to a raiding guild.</P> <P>Message Edited by -Aonein- on <SPAN class=date_text>09-06-2005</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>11:01 AM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>You can get 40% haste from quest items which are easy to obtain. My 30% haste 2H comes from Nek2. The shields are common to anyone who raids.<BR>Now, maybe I shouldn't have said that 100% from items is easy, because you can't go out and get the items in a week, but it's certainly been within reach of anyone who has raided a decent amount over the last months.</P> <P>But, if you didn't notice, the majority of that haste was coming from buffs, such that any melee in a group with berserker, bard, enchanter can have over 200% (and I had 230% with those classes in my regular XP group without ever seeing a raid mob).</P> <P>Besides, nobody was comparing things to a high end raiding guild, or saying that 300% haste is the norm - merely that it was quite obtainable. And if it's obtainable to a few select guilds, shouldn't you be arguing that it's great the haste will no longer stack that way, thus narrowing the disparity between the average and the elite? Therefore it's good that the normal range of haste after the patch will be 60-100%, right?</P>

[Ethelwo]

<P>All weapons have a minimum delay of one second. Haste does nothing after a certain percentage anyways. For most weapons anything beyond 50% is a waste. Duel Wield weapons are out there with delays averaging 1.5 sec. It is easy with one haste item and a haste spell to reach one second on these weapons. Also many onehand weapons have delays around 1.7 sec. Haste will be very effective with these as well.</P> <P>I forsee Berserkers being the duel wielder's of the heavy metal tank class. Thats why I intend to get a duel wield prismatic when Im done with the quest. After the change two hand weapons simply will not be as effective for use as they are now for the Berserker subclass.</P> <P>As Warriors we can use almost all weapons in the game except a few Brawler weapons. Chose your tools well.</P>

[MillsFairchild]

<b>Enter</b>: The haste delay cap debate <div></div>

[Pin StNeedl]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ethelwolf wrote:<BR> <P>All weapons have a minimum delay of one second. <FONT color=#ff0000>Wrong</FONT></P> <P>Haste does nothing after a certain percentage anyways. <FONT color=#ff0000>Wrong</FONT></P> <P>For most weapons anything beyond 50% is a waste. <FONT color=#ff0000>Wrong</FONT></P> <P>Duel Wield weapons are out there with delays averaging 1.5 sec. It is easy with one haste item and a haste spell to reach one second on these weapons. Also many onehand weapons have delays around 1.7 sec. Haste will be very effective with these as well.</P> <P>I forsee Berserkers being the duel wielder's of the heavy metal tank class. Thats why I intend to get a duel wield prismatic when Im done with the quest. After the change two hand weapons simply will not be as effective for use as they are now for the Berserker subclass.</P> <P>As Warriors we can use almost all weapons in the game except a few Brawler weapons. Chose your tools well.<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I can only assume you've never been in a post-40 haste-buffed group. There is no minimum weapon delay (I've parsed myself at 0.4sec delay with a fast 1H). I've also parsed myself at 1.1sec delay using a great flail (3.8sec), which is a huge DPS boost.</P> <P>In the current system, fast weapons do lose some effectiveness of the haste boost, but that is due to the way combat arts work, not because there is a cap on haste, or swing speed. After the patch, this is being alleviated slightly as combat arts will cast much faster, however 2H will still remain superior for DPS.</P> <P>Any 30+ warrior choosing to dual wield before or after the combat changes is either a fool, or is doing so for roleplay purposes.</P>

[KagnarL]

Been thinking of switching back to DW again....my Zerker was DW for RP up till 40 and then i just couldnt find any good ones......and I got the BBC which was awesome.... Think we can get a dev clarification on if there is a delay cap? <div></div>

[Sabin the Gre]

<DIV>Quick question.  When using the character.HUD haste ceases to be measured past 130%.  Is this just a limitation of the HUD or is there already a cap on haste?   For instance self-buffed I think my haste stands around the 100% haste mark (50% from Tides + 10% from Destructive + 20% from Bangle of Manip + 15% from FBSS.   My %'s may be wrong as I'm at work atm and can't check them, but you get the idea).  When you open your HUD when fighting attack speed caps at 130 when berserk when it should be up in the 150's. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm interested to hear the answer.</DIV>

[-Aonein-]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Pin StNeedles wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ethelwolf wrote:<BR> <P>All weapons have a minimum delay of one second. <FONT color=#ff0000>Wrong</FONT></P> <P>Haste does nothing after a certain percentage anyways. <FONT color=#ff0000>Wrong</FONT></P> <P>For most weapons anything beyond 50% is a waste. <FONT color=#ff0000>Wrong</FONT></P> <P>Duel Wield weapons are out there with delays averaging 1.5 sec. It is easy with one haste item and a haste spell to reach one second on these weapons. Also many onehand weapons have delays around 1.7 sec. Haste will be very effective with these as well.</P> <P>I forsee Berserkers being the duel wielder's of the heavy metal tank class. Thats why I intend to get a duel wield prismatic when Im done with the quest. After the change two hand weapons simply will not be as effective for use as they are now for the Berserker subclass.</P> <P>As Warriors we can use almost all weapons in the game except a few Brawler weapons. Chose your tools well.<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I can only assume you've never been in a post-40 haste-buffed group. There is no minimum weapon delay (I've parsed myself at 0.4sec delay with a fast 1H). I've also parsed myself at 1.1sec delay using a great flail (3.8sec), which is a huge DPS boost.</P> <P>In the current system, fast weapons do lose some effectiveness of the haste boost, but that is due to the way combat arts work, not because there is a cap on haste, or swing speed. After the patch, this is being alleviated slightly as combat arts will cast much faster, however 2H will still remain superior for DPS.</P> <P>Any 30+ warrior choosing to dual wield before or after the combat changes is either a fool, or is doing so for roleplay purposes.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Do you have a parser that allows you to see your attack speed to the point second or are you just averging off your total DPS?

[Violator]

<DIV>Theres a command to pull up all the stats of your character. I have it macro'd, and I have seen it over 200%, so theres not cap atm.</DIV>

[kono]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sabin the Great wrote:<BR> <DIV>Quick question.  When using the character.HUD haste ceases to be measured past 130%.  Is this just a limitation of the HUD or is there already a cap on haste?   For instance self-buffed I think my haste stands around the 100% haste mark (50% from Tides + 10% from Destructive + 20% from Bangle of Manip + 15% from FBSS.   My %'s may be wrong as I'm at work atm and can't check them, but you get the idea).  When you open your HUD when fighting attack speed caps at 130 when berserk when it should be up in the 150's. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm interested to hear the answer.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I've seen it top 200%, so perhaps you had some other issue.</P> <P>najena.konk</P>

[Sabin the Gre]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> konofo wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sabin the Great wrote:<BR> <DIV>Quick question.  When using the character.HUD haste ceases to be measured past 130%.  Is this just a limitation of the HUD or is there already a cap on haste?   For instance self-buffed I think my haste stands around the 100% haste mark (50% from Tides + 10% from Destructive + 20% from Bangle of Manip + 15% from FBSS.   My %'s may be wrong as I'm at work atm and can't check them, but you get the idea).  When you open your HUD when fighting attack speed caps at 130 when berserk when it should be up in the 150's. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm interested to hear the answer.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR><FONT color=#66ff00>I've seen it top 200%, so perhaps you had some other issue.</FONT></P> <P>najena.konk</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Seen it top 200% where?  On your HUD?  If yes could you screen shot it for me.  I've definately been capped at 130% according to my Character main HUD window.  I'll test it again but if you could get me that screen shot I could figure out [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] is up with my window then.  </P> <P>Note:  I don't mean adding up all the haste that you should have I mean in the actual Character.HUD.  It's a possibility that a berserker can only give himself so much haste.  In which case it might make sense, but if so 95% haste seems alittle random.<BR></P>

[Khal]

Ive been over 230 on the HUD

[Pin StNeedl]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> -Aonein- wrote:<BR><BR>Do you have a parser that allows you to see your attack speed to the point second or are you just averging off your total DPS? <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Umm... Well, you have to use to rather advanced mathematics to calculate it.... Something along the lines of  [Time Taken] / [Number of Swings].</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Measure it over a 20-30 berserked period.</DIV>

[Ethelwo]

<P>In my post I am not talking about the current live combat system, but the upcoming combat system change. With the Combat 2.0 system you will not be able to obtain the high rates of haste you currently do. It is in fact one of the things broken in the current combat system. You should however be able to obtain 50% haste (on average) after the change. Using old eqlive standards 50% haste is alot.</P> <P>The new combat change will not allow equipment hastes to stack, nor will it allow group buff hastes to stack. It will also not let self hastes to stack. What it will allow is one item haste, one group haste and one self haste to stack. If you look at what haste % is now on all the haste spells then you can expect a decline in your haste. On the up side haste will actually be more effective as the short cast timers on most skills will not cause a significant interupt of your haste. Your haste is confined to auto attack mode both in combat 1.0 and combat 2.0.</P>

[CherobylJ]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Pin StNeedles wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> -Aonein- wrote:<BR><BR>Do you have a parser that allows you to see your attack speed to the point second or are you just averging off your total DPS? <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Umm... Well, you have to use to rather advanced mathematics to calculate it.... Something along the lines of  [Time Taken] / [Number of Swings].</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Measure it over a 20-30 berserked period.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Or you can just make it up out of thin air...something you generally do Pin<BR>