A new CA, Open Wounds, happy times. [Archive]

View Full Version : A new CA, Open Wounds, happy times.

-Aonein-

09-01-2005, 04:28 AM

<DIV>*** Combat Changes *** - Any spells that increase or decrease skills are now more effective. - There should now be spell scrolls for all upgradeable spells. Berserker changes: - Berserkers gain Open Wounds, a short-duration buff that turns all of their melee damage into AoE attacks. - Infuriate can now be toggled. - You can now find Adept I and Master I Infuriate scrolls throughout Norrath.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Find post <A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=comtest&message.id=5780#M5780" target=_blank>here</A> for other info reguarding other class's.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Was wondering if konofo or Khalad could give us some insight on this please guys like is it auto attack damage only or CA as well? And also does it turn it into a PBAoE or is it encounter only, so like Bloodlust for example.</DIV>

Khal

09-01-2005, 05:31 AM

Raiding atm, not sure I will have time to check beta before work tonight, but will try. If Konk or someone else cant get it I'll be sure to get a shot of it for tomorrow morning. It sounds promising and very fitting to the class though. They also fixed infuriate, which I was asking about on the beta boards so at least masters will start poping up in the world for it.

Khal

09-01-2005, 07:15 AM

3 min recast, very nice. As for the frontal arc, i hope its a 180 degree fronta, and not a 10 degree one like Berserke Assult. Will test it tomorrow. <IMG src="http://www.secondawn.com/images/upload/openwounds.jpg">

-Aonein-

09-01-2005, 07:44 AM

Very nice Khalad, thanks man.

tnefoo

09-01-2005, 10:52 AM

<DIV>Hmmm, I notice it can't be upgraded(adept/master etc). I wonder if there is a limit to the # of targets it can hit and if it's encounter or AoE.</DIV>

MillsFairchild

09-01-2005, 11:00 AM

Any idea what level we're getting this at? <div></div>

Sinkat

09-01-2005, 01:21 PM

Very nice, thanks for the info and for the picture. <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MillsFairchild wrote: Any idea what level we're getting this at? <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> The screenshot shows its a lvl 50 skill <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. Good Luck!

Jvaloth

09-01-2005, 01:35 PM

Whats happening to Rampage then?

Donners

09-01-2005, 02:27 PM

It says your normal Autoattack of your wep. So normalyl it cant be upgraded since its the normal autoattack. It does not trigger with Combat Abilites. Nothing uber but ok. I Would still say Rampage > this. =)

-Aonein-

09-01-2005, 03:04 PM

It looks to me with the lose of Bloodlust this is its replacement. Yes it only works off your auto attack dmg and yes it does auto attack damage of that weapon across all mobs in front of you in a melee radius, like Berserker Assualt does now. Its a out of encounter aoe in other words. This new CA plus Rampage every 3 mins = Awesome. Now add in there our Fury line also if in Offensive mode which is a constant AoE as long as it is up......now thats uber. Question is, will Rampage and Open Wounds stay the same? Please tell me it will SoE, because you are making by the look a *real* Berserker class here and not some watered down Guardian wanna be class. This is looking really good to be honest now. I am acually looking forawrd to the changes if they contuine along this road, i wasnt looking forward to them when i seen our new Specialized Master II choices, but now i see this and i spose i can let those choices slip. :smileywink: Message Edited by -Aonein- on 09-01-2005 10:07 PM

Khal

09-01-2005, 04:35 PM

Vison of Madness Open Wounds Insolent Gibe All are new T6 berserker spells given at 50 on beta so more people will get to test. Add these to the 20 or so upgrades we get for older stuff in T6. All classes were given these new spells for testing at 50. Simple why it cant be upgraded, can't be better then 100 %.

MillsFairchild

09-01-2005, 05:20 PM

<blockquote><hr>Sinkatze wrote: <blockquote> <hr> MillsFairchild wrote:Any idea what level we're getting this at? <div></div> <hr> </blockquote> The screenshot shows its a lvl 50 skill <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. <hr></blockquote>lol. Oh, the things we miss after a late night play session. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Thanks!<div></div>

Khal

09-01-2005, 05:22 PM

Ok, this spell was a pain in the ... to test but where is what i have to far. It is an out of encounter AE. The problem I see with it, it is a very small frontal arc. Like the barrages, the mobs pretty much have to be stacked on each other and mobs really resist you moving them. Gonna bug report this along with the barrages, will do more testing on this spell. I am seeing something else with this thay may be just a display bug, its hard to tell. With multuple mobs hitting and repostes and such, its real hard to sort out what this spell hits sometimes.

Khal

09-01-2005, 05:49 PM

Ok, this spell is not working correctly atm. I put a bug report in and a post on the beta boards. Here is what I reported: Open Wounds (Berserker 50) This spell has been very difficult to test due to the procs off of it looking like auto attack. I hope the following requests are possible: 1. When this procs, would it be possible for the battle chat line say "Your Open Wounds hits Bob for 100 damage!" instead of it saying "You hit Bob for 100 damage!" Would make testing and seeing this buff in action alot easyer. 2. Even when mobs are directly stacked on each other it does not seem to work as it says. Say I pull an encounter with 2 mobs named Bob and Jon. I manage to get Bob and Jon stacked where they are both directly in front of me. I turn on attack and this is what it says: (using a slow 2 hander for these tests, turning auto attack on then off after 1 swing) You Start Fighting You hit Bob for 100 points of crushing damage You Hit Bob for 120 points of crushing damage You stop fighting Jon is at 100% health after I do this, each time I try it. He is stacked right on Bob, so it appears to not be working right atm. 3. I am not sure if the frontal arc on this spell is simular to the Barrage line, but if it is, could the arc size be looked at as well. Thanks

kono

09-01-2005, 07:04 PM

The range is really short (think Frenzy). Both Open Wounds and Frenzy claim 5.0 meters, just like Mutilate or our other melee-range arts, but that's clearly bugged. I think the visual arc is more like a 90 to 120 degree arc, I definitely wasn't hitting mobs to my direct right or left. I don't mind that it's out-of-encounter AE, because the range is so limited that you can use some skill to not catch adds. If it was an aggro add, you'd be on it's list long before you hit it with this. I like this art overall, assuming they get the range problems solved. It's not quite as good as Rampage, but it supplements it well. Now if they'll just return Vision of Madness to a group buff... najena.konk

cr0wangel

09-01-2005, 09:11 PM

Like that skill! :smileyhappy:

INF

09-02-2005, 04:28 AM

completely random.. but what armor are you wearing? It doesn't look like most fabled armor.. is it tier 6 rare? <div></div>

Khal

09-02-2005, 05:23 AM

T6 fabled beta buff armor

Styk

09-02-2005, 07:32 AM

<div></div>this skill still means squat with the rate of miss on auto attack still.... it looks good in theory but with a miss rate that is really high atm it isnt much ( and i mean it beta ) <div></div>Message Edited by Styker on 09-01-2005 08:33 PM

-Aonein-

09-02-2005, 08:30 AM

Maybe our to hit ratio is so low because of low AGI seeing as stats will be more effective now and we dont get AGI compaired to that of a Brawler this would significantly effect our chance to hit ratio.

Khal

09-02-2005, 06:07 PM

Konk nailed it, the prob is its range, here is what I put on the beta thread regarding it. "Konk completly hit the nail on the head with the problems with the barrage line and open wounds. The range is far too small on them both for practicle use. You basically have to be touching feet with the mob for it to work. Below are 2 screenshots. The first is out of range of barrage and open wounds. The second is what appears to be the max range of when open wounds will work. Barrage was not working well on the second shot either, its arc seems small, but the issue with open wounds is clearly the range. <IMG src="http://www.secondawn.com/images/upload/owtest.jpg"> <IMG src="http://www.secondawn.com/images/upload/owtest1.jpg"><A href="http://www.secondawn.com/images/upload/owtest.jpg" target=_blank></A> <DIV>So basically, in screenshot 1, I am 5 meters from the center mob, and 7 meters from his buddies, which makes them out of range. In screenshot 2, I am 3 meters from the center mob, and 5 meters from his buddies, they are in range for open wounds. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So it appears that the range on this needs to be increased. The way mobs move and position themselves, 5 meters just doesn't cut it for a decent range for a spell of this sort. As for the berserker barrage line, the same rule applies ,but also the arc seems a bit small. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks"</DIV>

Ethelwo

09-02-2005, 07:31 PM

I have a L50 zerker and a L47 monk. Having to touch toes (Place foot inside the con cricle) has been the only way to get my monk in close enough range to land his attacks since game release. This is the same effect now on Berserkers. It isnt hard once you get used to placing yourself and using con circles to guide you. You just have to start evaluating con circles before you launch an attack. That same effect has always been in effect for all chain attacks. Thats why so many miss. Effective combat in the real world requires the propper postion to be effective. In many cases the same is true in this game. You simply will have to learn how to set yourself before attacking. I have noticed that this effect is relaxed when playing dps instead of MT. Also in many cases certain mobs will set themselves to be inside your con circle before attacking. We can't see our own circles. I think the player character con circles should be adjusted even if we can't see them. There are many hidden effects in this game that simply can not be evaluated because they are not there to see. Just make certain your leading foot is on the edge or just inside the con circle of most mobs and you will be in range. Warning: There are some mobs with very large con circles and some with very small circles where this standard rule of engagement do not apply. SOE needs to test and fix all the con circles of every mob to make certain that the rules of combat do not change from mob to mob. It gets old trying to figure out where to place yourself in relationship to the con circle when the circles are ineffective. Try playing a monk. The single hardest fighter class to play. You really have to pay attention to things other classes and fighters simply disregard. Monks will teach you how to more effective with whatever melee class you play. You learn things about the game that are not apparent to other classes.

-Aonein-

09-02-2005, 09:24 PM

I personally think they should fix pathing, because you all know what its like when pulling groups of 5 or more and trying to get them all where you want them, its basically impossible to even get all of them infront of you and because we cant parry from behind, we take a bit more damage in that situation and am ob always skews around behind you no matter how or where you try and move large groups. It is possible to get them all in front though but it takes awhile and its better to just get them dead.

kono

09-03-2005, 12:35 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ethelwolf wrote: I have a L50 zerker and a L47 monk. Having to touch toes (Place foot inside the con cricle) has been the only way to get my monk in close enough range to land his attacks since game release. This is the same effect now on Berserkers. It isnt hard once you get used to placing yourself and using con circles to guide you. You just have to start evaluating con circles before you launch an attack. That same effect has always been in effect for all chain attacks. Thats why so many miss. Effective combat in the real world requires the propper postion to be effective. In many cases the same is true in this game. You simply will have to learn how to set yourself before attacking. [...] Try playing a monk. The single hardest fighter class to play. You really have to pay attention to things other classes and fighters simply disregard. Monks will teach you how to more effective with whatever melee class you play. You learn things about the game that are not apparent to other classes. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> No offense, but all I could get out of your post is that you think it's ok for our arts to have inconsistent or bugged ranges because other classes have had to deal with it as well. That, and you consider yourself a better player than everyone else because you have put up with playing a monk. Naturally, I disagree. Khalad, myself, and others will continue to work to make sure all of our arts are functional and worthwhile by September 12th, and the process of doing so does not include learning to live with flawed mechanics. najena.konk [edit: Sorry if this was a bit inflammatory, but the tone of that post really rubbed me the wrong way.]Message Edited by konofo on 09-02-2005 01:37 PM

Ethelwo

09-03-2005, 10:31 AM

Konofo, It isnt a bug, but a hidden combat rule. You haven't had to use the mobs con circle before to gage your postion of attack, now with certain skills you will have to. So start looking at the con circle around the mob you are attacking and us it to place yourself for battle. A bug is when the mob is above or below you and the hidden rule no longer works. The con circles around the mobs have always indicated more then just a glowing circle on the ground. You just haven't had to pay attention to it. I do and thats why I am probably better at playing both my Berserker and my Monk then you are. Skill does matter, and if you want to curse at this rule and call it a bug, go right ahead. Your just making an excuse for an in game tool you haven't even tried to use. Maybe if you did, you would land more blows and do more dps then you currently do. The con circle is an indicator. It has a meaning that relates to combat. It always has. I can't help it that you havent figured it out and used it to your advantage yet. I'm just trying to help everyone who reads this post.

Khal

09-03-2005, 04:52 PM

<DIV>Our Frenzy skill is the same way, its the deal with most multi hit styles. These are single target spells. I have no prob with frenzy in its current form, you have to move in a bit, no big deal. Having an AE that has the same range as the single target doesnt work, you can't get all the mobs that close. This is not an inconvienence, this is an issue that does not allow the combat art to work as they intended. </DIV>

xAlar

09-03-2005, 07:12 PM

<DIV>Actually, it's a problem that has nothing to do with Monks. We zerkers get several very important frontal barrage attacks, and it is very nearly impossible to get multiple creatures into that arc except by moving all around trying to trick the server into moving the mobs right on top of each other (and even then it doesn't always work). The problem is that the game system treats meters as if they were feet (the player in screenshot 1 is well within 5 real meters of both targets - it's not even close - but the game engine is not really using meters like it says).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

kono

09-03-2005, 10:31 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ethelwolf wrote: Konofo, It isnt a bug, but a hidden combat rule. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Cop-out. If a skill claims to do damage to targets "in melee range," yet it's not hitting targets who are in mutual melee range, then there is a bug involved. And I know all about con circles and melee range, please save your condescension for someone else. Think whatever you want, but we're getting it looked at and fixed. I'm just trying to help everyone who plays the game. najena.konk

Ethelwo

09-04-2005, 03:11 AM

The problem with the con circle rule is that it isnt standardized throughout the game. Also the mobs you fight have different combat arts then most players have. They are lesses effected by the rule then players are simply because they don't use the same arts. Gnolls in particular have very small con cricles, This requires players to be very close to them to land some attacks. Many other mobs have larger con circles and the range of these attacks are extended outward with them. Mobs are mean't to be dynamic and pose different challenges. Maybe this skill isn't as effective against Gnolls as it is against other mobs simply because the con circle rule is so narrow on them. My point being that there may be nothing at all wrong with the art, but that the con circle rules are out of wack. So you can say the skill needs to be fixed, and what really needs to be fixed is something completely different. Some other game mechanic that effects more skills then just this one. As far as I know the developers haven't payed much attention to the con circle problems with this combat change, simply because players don't understand what their purpose is and blame the skill instead of the melee rule dictated by the con circle of the mob. Test this skill against many different mob types and identify mobs where the rules seem out of balance. Maybe in time the developers will see the problem themselves and finally fix it. It may not be the art, but the mob thats the problem. I do realize that this art is intended to be used against mulitple mobs and hence is not working as it should. I am simply stating that alot of other arts are effected in the same way and that a comprehensive look at the con circle rule, applied to each mob type needs to be looked at, redone and standardized. These problems have been in the game since release and SOE can change skills, mob hitpoints, PC hitpoints/stats as well as equipment, but none of this will fix whats wrong if the true cause is never identified and fixed. <DIV>Learn how to use con circles so you can identify problems with them where they occure, otherwise the devlopers may spend many more months chasing ghosts.</DIV>

Khal

09-04-2005, 03:50 AM

<DIV>The devs have already confirmed on the beta board that the range that was given to this combat art is insufficient for what it is intended to do and they will be fixing it in a few updates.</DIV>Message Edited by Khalad on 09-03-2005 04:51 PM

Dashel

09-25-2005, 04:26 PM

Sorry for drudging this guy up but does Open Wounds stack with Rampage? Same timer? Seems like it might be an upgrade but I'm hoping it's to compliment Rampage. <div></div>

kono

09-25-2005, 08:31 PM

Their timers are independent. najena.konk