What are your opinion about this update: SOE want to remove the locked encounters

[cr0wangel]

<DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=comtest&message.id=3479" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=comtest&message.id=3479</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>*** Encounter Locking Changes ***</DIV> <DIV>- Encounter locking restrictions have been relaxed for non-raid encounters.<BR>- Raid encounters should continue to behave exactly as before with the previous encounter locking rules.<BR>- Non-raid encounters have been changed as follows:<BR>- There are no longer lock icons on you or your enemies.<BR>- The first group or person to attack a creature will receive any reward it grants upon death, including loot and experience.<BR>- Other players can assist in your fight by damaging your enemies or healing you.<BR>- You will receive a reduced XP reward if your group contributes less than 50% of the damage needed to kill something.<BR>- You can change group options and add/remove people from groups while fighting (note that fighting raid encounters still prevents this).<BR>- Damage credit is correctly tracked if you add people helping you to the group before something dies.<BR>- Any faction increase or decrease the creature grants will be applied to everyone the creature hates when it dies.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As I posted on the Testing forum, this update have good points but also bad points.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Good points are:</DIV> <DIV>-You can help your friends (alone or a group) if they need too, by taunting the mob on you or simply doing damage to the mob to bring it down</DIV> <DIV>-Multiples groups can work together to achive something, exemple, if a healer go out of power in group A, healer of group B can help, etc, etc.</DIV> <DIV>-It will look more realist since we can interfer into the fights, just as it will be if it was real life</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Bad points are:</DIV> <DIV>-It get more easy for people to powerlevel, all they need is some friends, healers, mages, and they can kill anything and get xp.</DIV> <DIV>-I fear griefing and harassment. What if I don't need help but someone jump in the fight with me and I don't want to? We are berserkers, we can taunt like madmen. It means some jerk can taunt the mobs of low level characters and run away with them? etc etc...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So good change or bad change?<BR></DIV>

[Zingsterf]

<DIV>well I think 1st off it is great they are taking that stupid lock off <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV>I also think it will open new doors to Power Leveling as in EQ1 and other MMo's</DIV> <DIV>It is nice to heal others in time of need and vice versa</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I usually grew up with other online games with this free lock system so I am happy it is coming back. I guess if your gonna change the game in whole, might as well unlock the fights too =)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>hAHA I remember when I first stepped in game and was trying to help others in fights they were about to die in and was thinking ahhh,, what the .... what is this .. lock ? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So I'm glad they are changing it =)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Sabin the Gre]

<DIV>No matter how you look at it this is going to be a horrible idea.  I'm basing this on two facts:</DIV> <DIV>1.)  The amounted of [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] powerleveling you could do.  Example: Level 30 guildy mage alt  runs up and nukes some level 32^^ that by himself could not kill without atleast two other players.   Level 50 guardian guildy taunts the mob (not doing any damage) and sits there as the mob beats on him.   Therefore level 30 guildy mage gleefully blasts the mob into submission earning exp at WoWesq rates. </DIV> <DIV>2.)  With the way exp is dictated by according to that post is correct any di ckhead can run around following a group and mitigate the experience they would recieve by dealing over 50% of the damage to the mob (example.  Random level 50 trapesing around RoV killing engaged mobs to be a jerk). </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I've seen power-leveling at its finest (Diablo 2 or City of Heroes anyone?) and if it comes to this game it definately would not be a good thing.  You'd have alot of level 50's with no clue how to play their characters.  Then again, it might not be so different from the way things are now...</DIV>

[infernus006]

<div></div>Yeah...I can see some good and bad things coming out of that...prolly more bad than good tho.  Sounds interesting and would be fun to try out but overall would be a bad idea I think and wind up ruining the game for a lot of people.  Sabin made some good points.  Yeah, I would like to be able to help my friends, including lowbie ones, any time they're in trouble without them having to break their encounters but you know what...it's not that big of a deal.  If they really need help that bad they can just break the encounter and reset the mob or die and then I can help them get their shard back at least after the fact with the way it is now.  If I'm too high to group with them to get credit, well too bad, it's that way for a reason (so lowbies can't cheat their way to the top).  Also, I really don't want or need other people being able to screw around with me and my encounters any time they want to.  Actually tho one idea in there I really do like is the ability to add/remove players from your group while in combat.  That's something I've been thinking should be added to the game for a while now.  Then you have a choice if you want so and so to come in and help you out or if they need the same mob that you're already killing, no problem just invite them, instead of having to break encounter on a mob you camped for hours to spawn and hope it resets properly and that no one else steals it in the meantime while your getting your crap back together, and then they can't just come up and join in whether you want them to or not, you have the choice to invite them to allow it.  That would be a better idea I think than totally removing the locks on encounters altogether. <div></div><p>Message Edited by infernus006 on <span class=date_text>08-22-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:56 PM</span>

[-Aonein-]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sabin the Great wrote:<BR> <DIV>No matter how you look at it this is going to be a horrible idea.  I'm basing this on two facts:</DIV> <DIV>1.)  The amounted of [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] powerleveling you could do.  Example: Level 30 guildy mage alt  runs up and nukes some level 32^^ that by himself could not kill without atleast two other players.   Level 50 guardian guildy taunts the mob (not doing any damage) and sits there as the mob beats on him.   Therefore level 30 guildy mage gleefully blasts the mob into submission earning exp at WoWesq rates. </DIV> <DIV>2.)  With the way exp is dictated by according to that post is correct any di ckhead can run around following a group and mitigate the experience they would recieve by dealing over 50% of the damage to the mob (example.  Random level 50 trapesing around RoV killing engaged mobs to be a jerk). </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I've seen power-leveling at its finest (Diablo 2 or City of Heroes anyone?) and if it comes to this game it definately would not be a good thing.  You'd have alot of level 50's with no clue how to play their characters.  Then again, it might not be so different from the way things are now...</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>It is bad for PLing, but take into account also how hard it is to hit mobs that are 5 lvls higher then you, also add into the fact how hard it is for casters to land DoT's, Debuffs etc on mobs 5 lvls higher then you, its almost pointless trying to kill a mob that is 7 - 10 lvls higher then you when you can potentially get more xp from mobs roughly the same lvl as you but killing them on a constant basis. Also add in there the amount of time it would take a low lvl char to kill a mob 5+ lvls higher and also how much power he would burn up doing it.</P> <P>I look at PLing two ways, <STRONG>1)</STRONG> Its a bad thing yes, players use it at there own discretion. If they suck in high lvl groups and have no clue what there doing, they ethier been PLed or Ebayed when they should know there char back to front by then, if that is so and you are almost 100% sure of it, then simply dont group with that person again, its really not hard to tell who can play there class and who cant. <STRONG>2)</STRONG> People dont just give up there gaming time to stand there and get nothing out of it while other people do <U><STRONG>unless</STRONG></U> there good friends when there is plenty of stuff they could be doing themselves let alone pling some newbie char.</P> <P>I dont think its going to be as bad as Cow runs in D2, its not like your going to be running around newbie areas and every where you look there is going to be people being pled by a lvl 50 char.</P> <P>Just think back to when you were lvl 30 or so and you tried killing lvl 37+ mobs, even in a full group it was hard enough hitting the mob let alone killing it, and mages would cry that they cant hit it cause it was resisting everything they threw at it.</P> <P>What is the reason i see them unlocking the encounters? Its simple, to make people solve things by using the /duel system. In other words ie: </P> <P>Ranger 1 says " Can you believe this guy he is killing everything in sight, leaving us none when we have been here before he came down "</P> <P>Ranger 2 says " Yeah im going to sort it out right now " /duel Mage 3</P> <P>Reguardless of if encounters are locked or not, people were still ksing, except there was nothing you could do about it cause they were locked encounters, so you had to stoop to there level and try to play childish games like them and beat them to spawns or take it on the chin and move on. Me for one dont have time to mess about like a kid and race for spawns, so i take it on the chin and move on to another spot or area till the same happens again. While its not always so bad, sometimes especially on weekends, it can get pretty bad, especially in high populated areas.</P> <P>PvP is there for many reasons, fun, sport, experimentation or sorting out who is boss, until someone else comes sorts you out. Of course you can always decline a /duel, but some people arent like that, some people just feel the need to feel big and you gotta put em in there place.</P> <P>There is Power Leveling in every game, there is no escaping it, im not saying that makes it ok, but SoE can at least minimize it in such a way that it will make it almost not worth doing it, almost :smileywink:.</P> <P> </P>

[Sabin the Gre]

I think you were missing the gist of what I was getting at Aoenin.  It's kind of hard to hit a mob that is 5 levels above you yes, but still very very easy to do.  But the biggest change would be group dynamics.  If I was trying to level under that system I'd just grab a ton of dps together in a group: say Zerker, Warlock, Bruiser, Assasin, Dirge, and Chanter and grabbed your level 50 buddy to taunt and tank for you, you could absolutely annihilate zones.  No down time, no healing, no low dps guard, just straight killing.  You're telling me that group wouldn't annihilate +5 mobs faster than a group that had to "waste" a spot on a healer?   Please.  I agree it's not going to be another Cow Portal, but without having to worry about your tank dieing or loosing agro, and on top of that get to hit the mob in the back constantly, it would completely change the leveling dynamic.  Atleast now you have to work for what you get (except for crafting, but that stupid macro bs is another story altogether).

[Sinkat]

<DIV><FONT color=#ff3300>I think its a good idea just because if you don't like it you can still switch to the lock encounters if you want, so there won't be any problem for people who prefer the locked system. Although I don't know why they are making powerleveling abled in the game, I thought the locked encounters was a good was of preventing powerleveling in the game.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff3300>The good points you pointed out Alak are true and I think the same, it will be a nice realistic adition, and will be able to get help from other groups, maybe be able to raid with groups without having to actually go into a raid. I remember when more than 6 people wanted to kill a named for an HQ and only 6 would be able to group and get the credit, but now everyone will be able to, so its good in a way.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff3300></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff3300>Good Luck!</FONT></DIV>

[-Aonein-]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sabin the Great wrote:<BR>I think you were missing the gist of what I was getting at Aoenin.  It's kind of hard to hit a mob that is 5 levels above you yes, but still very very easy to do.  But the biggest change would be group dynamics.  If I was trying to level under that system I'd just grab a ton of dps together in a group: say Zerker, Warlock, Bruiser, Assasin, Dirge, and Chanter and grabbed your level 50 buddy to taunt and tank for you, you could absolutely annihilate zones.  No down time, no healing, no low dps guard, just straight killing.  You're telling me that group wouldn't annihilate +5 mobs faster than a group that had to "waste" a spot on a healer?   Please.  I agree it's not going to be another Cow Portal, but without having to worry about your tank dieing or loosing agro, and on top of that get to hit the mob in the back constantly, it would completely change the leveling dynamic.  Atleast now you have to work for what you get (except for crafting, but that stupid macro bs is another story altogether).<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>There isnt going to be a great deal of this happening though simply because, people dont have the time or patience to do it, sure you will find some people who will do it, but to be honest i believe you will see majority of the people still using the locked feature so that these sorts of people cant come along and push you out of zones, for example if i was in a normal group all lvl 35's playing the game normally, no BS, and some lvl 50 - 60 comes down with 3 - 4 guildies to PL them he might try to push the low levels out by KSing them and doing more then 50% damage on the mob the group is killing, thats just a example but you get what i mean. <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am a strong believer in working for what you earn, even if i wanted to make a new char i would still play it normally so i can learn that class like the back of my hand. Thats just the way i am, but i know there is people out there who are impatient and have to PL as fast as physically possible which is a pity, a pity for them for missing out.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Do i think a group of 6 DPS could kill a lvl 5+ mob faster then a normal group? Hmmm, maybe not, id probally say a normal group killing mobs there lvl +1 or 2 lvls would kill 7 mobs before going OOP for example and the group PLing might get in 3 - 4 mobs before having to med up, i dont think its going to be a big difference simply because of lvl difference making them too hard to hit, land spells etc etc.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If i was to PL, this is just a figure of speach, but <STRONG><U>IF</U></STRONG> i was to PL id probally aim at mobs 4 - 5 lvls higher then me so i can make sure i can still at least get a decent flow going on, for example, you have a normal group of lvl 35's killing whites, yellows and oranges, they could get more xp flow then the group trying to kill red red cons by like say for example 7+ lvls, simply because the time it takes to kill. Group PLing kills 3 Red con 7+ lvls difference in the same time the Group playing normally kills 7 white, yellow or orange con mobs and is realistically only down one DPS person because they have a Healer to replace them.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So to be honest it would probally almost even itself out <STRONG><U>BUT</U></STRONG> it will all depend on peoples CA and Spells quailitys, the group with say for example all the best gear they can get for there Tier + all Master 1's will more then likely do the most XP grinding, in the situation where for example a normal group had all top gear and all Adept III / Master I quaility CA / Spells they could easily kill more then a group being PLed that has for example all Adept I's and not so crash hot gear, because ive played a hell of alot of games and majority of people who PL dont waste there money on stuff at lower lvls unless there from a high end raiding Guild and have access to a unlimited amount of useless rares going to waste etc, they buy the cheap and nasty and grind baby with the foot to the floor on the gas, as fast as they can, then they spend at the higher levels.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I truely believe its not going to be a big problem i think it will be a small problem at best, depending on how populated your server is. The other reason i think its going to be harder to PL then people make it out to be, is grouping with the right people, i dont know about you, but Everfrost server is a low populated server these days. I been lvling in all the lvl 40+ areas plus i also been Dual boxing alot lately because i started up a baby Illusionist on my 3rd comp to replace my lost Haste when the time comes and all the zones i been in upto lvl 30 on my Illusionist has been empty, no one in them, and i been clearing quests like no tomorrow cause i have free run of all mobs, even Stormhold has been a baron wasteland and Varsoons. The higher lvl areas also, got bored of lvling my box Illusy up and went to make a group in PF, not a single soul in EF or PF, empty. My point is depending on what server you live on, i really dont think PLing will be such a big issue and i cant see DoF bringing another 1 million players out of the blue to make it a viable problem.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Dont worry Sabin, i know what ya getting at bro, i hate PLing with a passion, i really do, but i dont think it will be so bad.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>/cross fingers :smileywink:</DIV><p>Message Edited by -Aonein- on <span class=date_text>08-24-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:09 AM</span>

[infernus006]

<font color="#ff3300">"I think its a good idea just because if you don't like it you can still switch to the lock encounters if you want, so there won't be any problem for people who prefer the locked system." Oh really?  It's something you can just toggle on and off or what?  Did I miss something here? </font><div></div>

[Zingsterf]

<DIV>aha, I didn't know you can switch it on anf off as well. This will prevent those that do not want to participate in the free for all to play at their own style. For many other's including myself it will provide a sence of reality which is cool. Also a Sabin the Great made a Great Example of Power Leveling that and many other ways to power level will be discovered if this is implemented to the game. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This is great cuz now you can buy a seperate account, Power level the character to 50 , then transfer that account to Station Exchange Server and sell for a profit...now that's an idea!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>sTation Exchange will be very popular a few weeks after this is implemented.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[-Aonein-]

Yes its is going to be a toggle that you can switch on and off, lets just hope it stays that way when released live. <p>Message Edited by -Aonein- on <span class=date_text>08-24-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:12 PM</span>

[infernus006]

Ohhhh ok...maybe it's not such a bad idea then.  <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[cr0wangel]

<P><STRONG><FONT color=#ffcc00>*** Combat Changes ***<BR><BR></FONT></STRONG>- Added the /lock command, which locks the targeted encounter if the user of /lock is a member of the group that first engaged the encounter. While an encounter is locked, it will prevent players outside the locking group from assisting or interfering with the fight.</P> <P> </P> <P>Also:</P> <P><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=pround&message.id=2945" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=pround&message.id=2945</A><BR></P> <p>Message Edited by cr0wangel on <span class=date_text>08-24-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:37 AM</span>

[JBo]

<P>I like the changes. It makes this game more like what would happen in real life.</P> <P>If some folks like to do some bad thing, like taunt the mobs and run away, it really doesn't hurt the game more than what they can do right now. As the encounter lockign mechanism is enforced on live server, any one can already taunt any mobs and lock them, and it has already become an effective kill stealing method.</P> <DIV>Flameseeker</DIV> <DIV>50th senson Berserkr</DIV> <DIV>Nektulos</DIV>

[Game]

<DIV>I think this change will not make any negative impact on anyones game play. Power leveling is going to be really hard seeing you have to be groupped to have buffs and as previously stated hitting orange or even red mobs will be pretty hard. So time invested in power leveling might end up being equal to time one would spend in a group for the same gains, or pretty close anyways.  Also this alows people to help eachother much more freely especially inside dungeons when one or anothetr group has some lets call it bad luck.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think this change is needed to add more freedom. Even the nay saysrs should be happy because they get their encounte lock command.</DIV>

[Sabin the Gre]

Well if this is coming then I say w/e.  My guildies are good guys and I see some monsterous pl'ing sessions comin up to make sure we have all the "new" best classes (inquisitors for the win!).  Beats the hell out of solo and small group grinding, that's for sure.  I got my level 40 bruiser a RGF, so I figure he could beat down a level 42^^ pretty quickly if my buddies guardian would hold agro.   Throw in GEB's, t5 drink, and one of those sexy OoC regen totems and we're talking about Potemkin Painfactory the non-stop party shop baby (and yes, my bruisers last name is Painfactory :robotvery-happy: I'M CRAZY...and my Feet are Strong Joe Rogan).  <BR>

[Johnd]

<DIV>To stop the powerleveling, just take away all the fighting parts. Only make the heals get past the lock. That way you can help, but the person itself still has to do all the work.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I remember from another game that a high level teamed up, killed the mob 60% ( prefered a casting doing 10 at a time ). Dropped team and finished them off. That way you get 50% of the xp, but you can do this with almost 8-10 levels difference. Imagin the xp you get with 5 ppl ( !! ) at the same time. I hope this has been tought about.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, as soon as another person steps in to fight, instand devide the xp by the two compared to their level. So a level 20 fighting and killing 60% so a level 50 can finish it off. Then the xp for the level 20 shoul be 2/5th. Not almost all since s/he killed 60%.</DIV> <DIV>Same for taunting. Just a taunt should cost you a lot of xp. This way you can help, but it won't be worth it for the xp to have a way higher level to help you. For that they got the mentoring system in place.</DIV>

[infernus006]

"To stop the powerleveling, just take away all the fighting parts. Only make the heals get past the lock. That way you can help, but the person itself still has to do all the work." Um yeah...then the only people that will be able to help are healers.  This is the berserker forum ok?  LOL <div></div>

[WinterAnar]

<P>Well in the time it takes to type /lock depending on the level of the mob, class / level of the person, someone could still get 50% damage in before it became locked.</P> <P> </P> <P>And for this not making powerleveling happen... Just wait... I played FFXI for a long time and people would run around offering to powerlevel people if they would pay them.  I know it'll happen in this game too. </P> <P>I'll admit in FFXI when I was working on my 3rd char+ I'd try and get friends to heal me as I went.  The fastest way to powerlevel is a normal group or normal soloing with someone healing from the outside.  If you have a level 50 healer healing a level 30 group fighting normal things, btwn that outside healer and a possible healer in the group, there will be no downtime except for if you run out of things to fight.  Especially seeing that the outside healer will be regening power at a non engaged rate.</P> <P>My opin... This change is bad news...</P>

[Darkd]

All I can say is power leveled noobs and <FONT color=#ff0000 size=7>CHOO CHOO</FONT> .  Then there is the every popular Kill Stealing that we have all dealt with before.  Bad Idea with so many people already unhappy with combat changes already. <p>Message Edited by Darkdog on <span class=date_text>08-27-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:07 PM</span>