.....heres a laugh

[-Aonein-]

<DIV>Get a load at this guys :</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testfeed&message.id=25307#M25307" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testfeed&message.id=25307#M25307</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>" Wouldn't match it's description? Have you even read the manual that came with the game??? The classes don't match their descriptions NOW!! They are changing them so they WILL!! So, in essence, you have been playing a game for 11 months that does not play like you were told it would. Why are you still here? You got robbed 11 months ago!! Yet, here you are, bashing SOE, bashing the revamp, knowing nothing about it in true reality, and making an accusation that actually happened the day you loaded the game. You are only mad because YOU won't be super uber soloing red heroics... which was NEVERRRRRRRRRRRRRRR intended in the first place!!! "<BR></STRONG></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Our class isnt going to redefined at all, according to him our class is <STRONG><U>not</U></STRONG> a Berserker at the current moment and will become a Berserker after the combat revamp................:smileyindifferent:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>He must be refering to the way we where before last Christmas.........9 months ago..........cause i dont know about the rest of you guys, but i cant solo red heroic mobs.............:smileyindifferent:</DIV><p>Message Edited by -Aonein- on <span class=date_text>08-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:02 AM</span>

[KittenClaw]

I can solo some things which make other classes flinch when mentioned. I duo and trio things which wipe entire groups. A lot depends on the quality of players. The berserkers who are whining about losing all their "l33t" abilities at DPS are probably crappy tanks and don't know how to play a main tank. "I put nine months into my character!" Then you should be rich. Twink a scout class, and stop whining. If you want to be pure DPS then you don't want to be a fighter. If you want to wear chain and do massive amounts of damage... Reroll as a ranger/assassin. I feel that the changes will be a vast improvement on the class and we will finally get the respect we deserve as tanks, as warriors. <div></div>

[-Aonein-]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> KittenClaw22 wrote:<BR><BR>I feel that the changes will be a vast improvement on the class and we will finally get the respect we deserve as tanks, as warriors.<BR><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>If you need respect as a tank, then you must not know how to do the job in the frist place, cause if you did know how, you wouldnt need to prove anything and a combat change wouldnt help ethier, it only makes it better, so you become twice the tank you were before.</DIV>

[infernus006]

"If you need respect as a tank, then you must not know how to do the job in the frist place, cause if you did know how, you wouldnt need to prove anything and a combat change wouldnt help ethier, it only makes it better, so you become twice the tank you were before." As a zerker I already tank a lot and feel that I have a pretty decent amount of respect among my fellow players in that role as it is.  I have had a few even compliment me very highly by saything such things as "You're the best tank I've ever played with," and whatnot.  So naturally I'm a little apprehensive about this proposed combat change...since I'm obviously able to do my job just fine as it is now, why would I want anything to be changed?  I have a reputation to keep!  Furthermore, I feel that my ability to do a high amount of dps compared to other tanks is what makes me so good at my job (holding aggro).  I'm worried that a significant reduction in dps like the one I'm hearing about in this new combat system is going to nerf the crap about of my tanking abilities as well as anything else, or at least make them not what they used to be.  <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[KittenClaw]

I have had many people say the same thing, "You are the best tank I have ever played with." "No one else can keep the agro off me." etc. Many people do not believe that berserkers make great tanks however, and will not even give them a chance. Our role will be completely changed after combat revamp. We will be the main raid tank instead of the guardians. <div></div>

[Sambora]

<P>Kitty</P> <P>You have said some really dumb things on this board recently, but saying that we are going to be the main tank in raids after the butt assult!?!!?!?  Now that just takes the cake.</P>

[KittenClaw]

Have you looked at the guardian revamp? It is geared toward protecting thier allies. After the revamp all the tank classes will get a chance to tank different raid mobs. They are each geared toward specific resists and capabilities. After the revamp, I believe that berserkers will be main tanking many raids, and will be welcome on all raids for their HP regen buff. <div></div>

[-Aonein-]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> KittenClaw22 wrote:<BR>Have you looked at the guardian revamp? It is geared toward protecting thier allies.<BR><BR>After the revamp all the tank classes will get a chance to tank different raid mobs. They are each geared toward specific resists and capabilities.<BR><BR>After the revamp, I believe that berserkers will be main tanking many raids, and will be welcome on all raids for their HP regen buff.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>They get more mitigation then us, end of story.</P> <P>Not sure if you noticed Kitten, but our HP regen has been sliced in half, its not as effective as before now, and with 26 days to go <STRONG><U>could</U></STRONG> get worse. 100 HP regen every 6 seconds on a raid isnt going to help much if said mob is nuking for 5k +........or you have a 10+ adds which the raid cant gain control off.</P> <P>Main tanking for many raids? We can main tank any raid material in the game as it is but not as effcient as a Guard and this is how it will be after the revamp, the same.</P> <P>The fact that we get better cold resistance and a Guard gets better heat, Bruisers get better poison etc etc, is going to mean jack because mobs now cast a variety of CA and Spells now so its not like we are going to be able to put the extra resistance we get to full use except on the ODD chance the mob decides to cast a Heat based spell, or a Cold based spell etc etc, so there really not doing us any favours, our extra resistance agaisnt Cold is basically fluff.</P> <p>Message Edited by -Aonein- on <span class=date_text>08-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:07 PM</span>

[Dak-D]

The cold based resistance and HP regen, in my opinion, wont help us much ...  considering the fact that both Guards and Palis will have better mitigation then Zerkers and thus be better tanks. Our only pluses I have seen, without actually playing the revamp, would be the str-agi buffs and AE damage which are not encounter only anymore. The whole Zerk class seems like its going to be a big joke, when you go offense mode you proc non-encounter AEs which aggro's adds and we are almost smack dap in the middle of all fighters by ways of Mitigation and DPS, seemingly making us mediocre .. I still ask the question, what is the zerkers speciality ? Cold based resistance, HP regen and some stat buffs are what defines the zerker now ??  If so ...  its pretty sad =(  I am hanging on to the thread of hope that by some miracle the zerker class will still be fun to play and all the posted numbers and skills will actually even out after the changes and we will still be what we where before, an offensive tank. I hope it just seems like the offensive has been taken away and that it is still there after the changes. I cringe at the thought of being reduced to a damage absorbing, taunt button smashing Guardian clone and if that is the case, which I hope it isn't, but if it is ... I pray we get some sort of reclass command to just go ahead and be a Guardian instead of pretending to be one.<div></div>

[Carancir]

<div></div><div></div>-Aonein- got it right, simply put: Mitigation > all. There is no place for 2nd best on a raid setup: Guardian = best mitigation/defense Paly/SK = utility and dps Zerker = DPS (due to haste, as before LU13) It worked - that's how we played. I don't know why some "crusaders" for old-fashioned  "tank = no dps" and "all tanks should tank equal" keep trolling the boards competing for the "greatest SOE village idiot" position showing them to be raid-noobs with no clue how the majority of the raid-guilds handle stuff and how the live playerbase of "tanks" did find arrangements for the raiding-part of the game. (And we should prolly crown our zerker-village idiot too - some are trying hard lol.) Group-playing no fighter-class had any issues tanking - get it that's why we are fighters. It is a basic design concept of the game and will stay that way no matter how much they change skills etc. Now please do throw away that funny manual that came with the game at release and listen to people that have actually been playing the game for some time. Guardians are the least fun class to level to 50 - every guardian knows this, they did choose this path for one reason to be the MT at the end-game. Some argue they will now happily buff other tanks to be MT. It's nice for you if you have a close friend playing a guardian that will do this - 99% of guardians (i presume) didn't roll their class to play a little defense-buff bot cause that's all that will be left for them if not MT-ing. Talking about zerkers as of now our haste is gone (every melee can get that little haste thats left of what zerkers offer by gear and i do doubt they will rework the haste-effects on all gear lol). Haste self- and group-buffed was our real "utility" that translated into DPS. If it's taken away we need another thing to make up for it. And yes they can dump that cold-resistance fluff-crap, 2-3 fabled items at tier5 and you're there (not talking other buffs even) - what will it be with tier6 gear lol? Have fun playing your zerker-tank in groups - you will do great after LU 13 too. If you're going to raid accept the simple truth i stated to start with: There is no place for 2nd best... <div></div><p>Message Edited by Carancir on <span class="date_text">08-18-2005</span> <span class="time_text">12:27 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Carancir on <span class=date_text>08-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:28 PM</span>

[KittenClaw]

<div></div>After revamp there will be an 80% cap on mitigation. So all these huge mitigation buffs don't really mean anything after 80%. I will definetly be at 80%, and so will most if not all of you, as will the guardians. We are all on an equal play ground now. If guardians read what the NPC was telling them when they picked their class at level 19 they said, "I like preventing my allies from taking damage." That's what they are going to be doing. Living up to their class discription as presented when they chose their class. I'm not trying to tick anyone off, I am just stating facts. After revamp stats will mean more as everyone will have pretty equal taunts and mitigation. So higher stamina will mean more HP, higher strength will mean more hitting power. After revamp: Guardian = Tank Berserker = Tank Paladin and Shadowknight = Tank <div></div><p>Message Edited by KittenClaw22 on <span class=date_text>08-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:05 AM</span>

[-Aonein-]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> KittenClaw22 wrote:<BR> After revamp there will be an 80% cap on mitigation.<BR><BR>So all these huge mitigation buffs don't really mean anything after 80%.<BR><BR>I will definetly be at 80%, and so will most if not all of you, as will the guardians.<BR><BR>We are all on an equal play ground now.<BR><BR>If guardians read what the NPC was telling them when they picked their class at level 19 they said, "I like preventing my allies from taking damage." That's what they are going to be doing. Living up to their class discription as presented when they chose their class. <BR><BR>I'm not trying to tick anyone off, I am just stating facts.<BR><BR>After revamp stats will mean more as everyone will have pretty equal taunts and mitigation. So higher stamina will mean more HP, higher strength will mean more hitting power.<BR><BR>After revamp:<BR><BR>Guardian = Tank<BR>Berserker = Tank<BR>Paladin and Shadowknight = Tank<BR> <P>Message Edited by KittenClaw22 on <SPAN class=date_text>08-18-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>09:05 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I think your missing a huge point with the mitigation cap.</P> <P>It scales up and down, meaning if you fight a Grey con you could possibly have 99% mitigation, if you fight a Red con mob you could effectively have 50 - 60% mitigation.</P> <P>When you inspect someone you get there true Mitigation <STRONG><U>total</U></STRONG> value in the inspection window, it doesnt come up as a percentage, meaning that Guardians who will have a higher total then us will have more Mitigation then us VS Yellow, Orange and Red con mobs, think of it as left over Mitigation. There capped at 80%, but with out the cap there accually running say for example 110% mitigation, meaning the more Mitigation Total means more left over Mitgation that gets used the more you fight mobs higher then you lvl, so for example a Guardian who has 80% mitigation against a white mob who could well have 110% mitigation against a white mob if not for the mitigation cap, would then have lets say for example 80% Mitigation against a Orange con mob because of the mitigation total being higher then ours.</P> <P>Dont be fooled by the 80% mitigation / avoidance cap, it does not mean in any way that it doesnt scale up and down and if there is any left over mitigation number wise that it doesnt get used, because it does.</P> <P>Doesnt matter which way you look at it Kitten, we are a 2nd rate Tank nothing more, of course we can tank, but i think the people who have been playing since Day 1 are just sick to death of the battle to convince people that we are good Tanks. Not to mention that we are designed to do more DPS then a guard which pretty much puts us in the back seat, its a choice you make when rolling a Berserker at lvl 19 when you are clearly asked what road you will take, the road to pure destruction or the road to leading your friends to victory. Sounds to me you should of chosen the road to leading your allies to victory.</P> <DIV><STRONG>" After revamp stats will mean more as everyone will have pretty equal taunts and mitigation. "</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV>Acually you a little wrong here, Guards got better Threat ( agro ) generation then we do because of how much of it they get, they have a number of AoE taunts + single target taunts and now some of there CA's have had taunt over time effects tied into them, i wouldnt be surprised if they hold agro better then we do after the revamp.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>They still get more Mitigation then us, by a fairly large amount too.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Your after revamp prediction is exactally as it is now, whats the point?</DIV><p>Message Edited by -Aonein- on <span class=date_text>08-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:16 AM</span>

[-Aonein-]

<P>Oh i just remebered :</P> <P><STRONG>" After revamp stats will mean more "</STRONG></P> <DIV>Stats will be capped too after the revamp, so no they wont mean more. Everything is being capped, SoE's way of setting it and forgetting it. ( god i love my set it and forget oven :smileywink: )</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Say for example a lvl 10 Warrior can get his STR to 100 ( which im not sure if thats possible, but for the sake of coversation lets say it is ) anything after the 100 STR results in no damage bonus.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Lvl 20 Berserker / Guardian is capped at 200 STR, Lvl 30 at 300 and so on, every tier basically is going to be capped, the same with casters in relation to INT bonus for more damage per cast, Lvl 10 at 100, Lvl 20 at 200 and so on.</DIV>

[-Aonein-]

<P>lol look out, Kitty is on a one star rampage. Maybe the Berseker in Her / Him is coming out to play.</P> <P>How dare any one try to even remotely offer her / him advice, if he dont like it he ones stars you, if he cant retort he one stars you.</P> <P>I dont usally worry about the star system but abusing it is one thing i really do hate.</P><p>Message Edited by -Aonein- on <span class=date_text>08-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:35 AM</span>

[Sambora]

That's becuase not only is said person ignorant, said person is also immature too!

[KittenClaw]

Also immature too? How redundant. Hmm. Yes... I'm the ignorant one. Your grammer speaks for itself. In this case, remember that when you point a finger, there is three pointing back at you. <div></div>

[uux]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>KittenClaw22 wrote:Also immature too? How redundant. Hmm. Yes... I'm the ignorant one. Your grammer speaks for itself. In this case, remember that when you point a finger, there is three pointing back at you. <div></div><hr></blockquote> I have a finger for you...  thanks for the 1 stars, jerk. EDIT:  [Removed for Content]!  grammer vs. grammar.  Okay, who is going to mention the [Removed for Content]?</span><div></div><p>Message Edited by uux on <span class=date_text>08-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:04 PM</span>

[Sambora]

<DIV>Last I checked, the freedom of speech is still in the bill of rights, and none of his original posts came accross as aggresive in any way shape or form. that being what it is, who really claims the 'immature' trophy?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Those same Bill of Rights apply to me and everyone else on this board who disagrees with it or anything else!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I like to read these boards because so many people have so many different viewpoints on where our class fits ain. Even  moreso, I appreciate all the predicitions on what the game will be like after the combat changes. If you really want to get down to the nitty gritty on the DoF game, here's the fact:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1. It hasn't been released, therefore there has yet to be any effects from it's release on the roles of the classes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Some of us don't like the proposed changes!  The changes to our CA's, buffs and DPS are all over the boards...so we know what direction they are going in</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2. You are not SOE devs, so you really don't have any idea what the devs were thinking.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We can obviously get an idea from peeps on the test server and from what I said above</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>3. Most of all, IT IS A FREAKING GAME... you're knowledge and opinions about a game do not, in any way shape or form, make you some sort of god-like uber genius in the mysteries of the universe. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>True, but we are allowed to have opinions and express them on this board!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am looking forward to the combat changes, because.... as I imagine is the real goal of SOE... I am bored with the current game and would like to see my toon change so I can re-learn him. Sony is a business and they need to keep all of you sucked in if they want to keep making money. Combat changes is one way to keep that happening. We love EQ2 because we are constanly learning new tricks in order to beat that one tough mob. Once we have all the best tactics mastered, we just become mindless killing machines. If sony mixes it up from time to time, it gives everyone the chance to 'discover' that one uber trick before anyone else. It's not called nerfing, screwing, or ruining the game... it's called marketing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Well some of us actually like our toons the way that they have been from the day the game started!!  If you want change perhaps you should go find a new game!!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now, with this new marketing strategy, I am sure that SOE has every intention of making every class fun to play, they may be more successful in some areas and they may fail in others... but win or lose, I will stillplay because it give me something different to try. I'm pretty sure all of you will still play too... so please S.T.F.U. and play the game.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>S.T.F.U.</DIV> <DIV>You get a D for originality</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I can't wait for Vanguard</DIV> <DIV>/blowit SOE</DIV>

[Faarwolf]

<DIV>Please don't create another thread just to link to one.  Also, this whole topic is a flamefest.</DIV>