Lets take a step back and have a look at some stuff shall we. [Archive]

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-Aonein-

08-08-2005, 06:50 AM

<DIV> Ok we need to step back, take a look at some of the skills and CA's that svanny has posted which can be found <A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=4&message.id=13545#M13545" target=_blank>here</A>. Now although these are only up to around lvl 38 or so, you can get a rough idea on how and where there going to upgrade, not to mention we dont even know of the skills that we get above lvl 38 yet cause no one seems to be posting here on what high lvl Berserkers will get that are totally brand new to the class after lvl 40 that we never had before. Now the other thing is, this is all still being tested, it may not even go through like this and then again, they might be happy with the way the Berserkers skills and CA's pan out. Lets take a look at a few things Moorgard has posted up. <HR> <A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=comtest&message.id=2" target=_blank>Moorgard wrote</A>: We are now testing significant changes to the combat system. The main goal of these changes is to increase the fun and challenge of EverQuest II. Some of the ways we are going to accomplish this goal include: <UL> <LI>Adjusting spells and combat arts to ensure that damage, healing, and utility are more proportionate among the classes.</LI> <LI>Adding new spells and arts to better fill out character progression.</LI> <LI>Making the con color of your opponent a lot more meaningful to better indicate the level of challenge you're about to undertake.</LI> <LI>Smoothing out player and NPC progression so there are no longer sudden increases in difficulty around the class and subclass levels.</LI> <LI>Addressing cases where some characters could be made virtually immune to attack through buff stacking.</LI></UL> Our intent is that the game feels and plays basically the way it always has for soloers and small group players. Individual players of any class or level should be able to defeat level-appropriate solo encounters. Heroic encounters should require the cooperation of multiple players. Groups and raid forces taking on powerful targets should find an increased level of challenge. Below are some specific changes to the various elements of combat. Avoidance <UL> <LI>Your likelihood of avoiding an attack is now based on two primary factors: the con color of the attacker and the type of armor you are wearing. The heavier your armor, the lower your chances of avoiding an attack.</LI> <LI>The more grey your target is to you, the greater your chance to avoid attacks and mitigate damage from that opponent; your chance to hit and damage the target also increases.</LI> <LI>Conversely, the more red your target is to you, the less your chance to avoid attacks and mitigate damage from that opponent; your chance to hit and damage the target also decreases.</LI> <LI>Increasing your Defense skill gives you a better chance of avoiding attacks, but there is now a cap on how much it can be buffed or debuffed.</LI> <LI>Increasing your Agility improves your base chance of avoiding an attack, but it will not improve your likelihood of parrying, deflecting, or blocking with a shield.</LI> <LI>There is now a cap on the effectiveness of Deflection buffs and debuffs</LI> <LI>Buff caps scale as the character increases in level. The higher your level, the greater the buff cap.</LI> <LI>Mages and Priests no longer receive the Parry skill.</LI> <LI>Shields now have the following base chances to Block: Tower (20%), Kite (20%), Round (5%), Buckler (3%). Your chances to Block scale up or down based on the con of your opponent. Shield buffs no longer have any effect.</LI></UL> Mitigation <UL> <LI>The base mitigation values of armor have been adjusted as follows: Heavy (38%), Medium (30%), Light (22%), Very Light (14%).</LI> <LI>Mitigation values scale up or down based on the con color of your attacker.</LI> <LI>Spell and item effects can now have a greater effect on your overall mitigation. You can mitigate a maximum of 80% of any damage type. This cap is higher against opponents that con grey.</LI> <LI>Armor quality (Handcrafted, Treasured, Legendary, Fabled, or Mythical) is more meaningful than it was before. </LI></UL> Melee Damage <UL> <LI>Melee damage bonuses are now calculated based on the attacker's strength versus the defender's agility.</LI> <LI>The damage output of both players and NPCs should now increase more smoothly rather than receiving a sharp boost every ten levels.</LI> <LI>Weapon quality (Handcrafted, Treasured, Legendary, Fabled, or Mythical) is now a greater factor in the damage potential of weapons.</LI> <LI>Damage buffs only enhance auto-attack damage, not spells or arts.</LI> <LI>The con of the target is now the primary determiner of your chance to hit or defend against attacks instead of skill. Skill buffs still have an effect, but they are treated more like a buff rather than the primary determiner. </LI> <LI>Mages and Priests now gain 5 points per level in their offensive melee skills.</LI></UL> Spells and Combat Arts <UL> <LI>Most spells and combat arts have changed, either in potency or in what effects are applied. You are advised to examine your choice of spells and arts closely, as they may not behave exactly the same way.</LI> <LI>Certain spell lines have been added or expanded upon. Upgrades have been added for many spells and arts that didn't have them before.</LI> <LI>There is now a spell damage bonus based on the difference between the caster's intelligence and the target's wisdom.</LI> <LI>Debuffs and damage-over-time spells cast by two members of the same class can both stack on the same target. For instance, if two necromancers are in a group and cast the exact same DoT on the same target, both will land and take effect. If one necromancer has a lower-level DoT in the same line, that spell will stack with the other necromancer's higher-level version. </LI> <LI>The power cost for a spell or combat art no longer increases when upgraded. For example, the Master I version of Backstab will cost the same amount of power as Apprentice I Backstab.</LI> <LI>Upgrading the quality of a spell or art now has a more meaningful impact on the values of stat buffs/debuffs, hate generation, snares, haste, skills, and many other effects.</LI> <LI>Casting times have been removed from most single-target damage-based combat arts.</LI> <LI>Many combat arts with faster recast times will now also cost less power.</LI> <LI>Attack speed decrease spells now have more effect.</LI> <LI>Attribute increase and decrease effects are more powerful.</LI> <LI>Icons for spells that target a single ally now have an orange background.</LI> <LI>Root, stun, stifle, fear, and mez spells are now either resisted or not based on the target's resistance to the damage type of that spell. Duration is no longer mitigated, so if the spell successfully lands, it sticks for the full duration.</LI> <LI>The Spell Avoidance skill is no longer used and has been removed. Items with a Spell Avoidance buff will be modified.</LI></UL> Heroic Opportunities <UL> <LI>Heroic Opportunity effects are now scaled based on the average level of spells used to trigger them. Completing HOs with low-level spells will have a much lower result than using spells appropriate to your level.</LI> <LI>Heroic Opportunity result effects will be evaluated after the initial round of spell and combat tuning is complete.</LI></UL> Healing <UL> <LI>Wards now apply their effects after mitigation </LI> <LI>As wards absorb damage, they now apply hate to the caster appropriate to the amount of damage absorbed. </LI> <LI>Reactive heals now assign their hate to the caster of the spell rather than the target.</LI> <LI>Overall healing potency should be better balanced among the Priest professions.</LI></UL> NPCs <UL> <LI>The damage output of both players and NPCs should increase more smoothly rather than receiving a sharp boost every ten levels.</LI> <LI>NPC damage tables now more closely match those of players. This will tend to decrease the melee damage of NPCs while increasing their spell damage.</LI> <LI>NPCs now have a broader list of Archetype and Class spells that they can cast in combat.</LI> <LI>NPCs use their own versions of spells and arts instead of using player spells combined with their own multipliers. This should eliminate cases where normal mobs could cast super-powerful versions of player spells. Please note that bosses and other special encounters may have such abilities by design, however.</LI> <LI>The damage output of epic encounters has been reduced.</LI></UL> Items <UL> <LI>Items no longer grow in effectiveness as the wielder gains levels.</LI> <LI>Existing items (including weapons and armor) can be equipped at the same level they were before these changes; however, their effectiveness (meaning AC/resistance values for armor or damage range for weapons) will be fixed.</LI> <LI>All modifiers (such as health, power, stat, and skill increases) other than mitigation and resistances are unaffected by this change.</LI> <LI>Con color for items has been replaced by tier color. Item names now appear in the color that designates their quality level (common, Handcrafted, Treasured, Legendary, Fabled, or Mythical). Common items have white names.</LI></UL> Health/Power Regen <UL> <LI>In-combat regeneration of power is capped at 1.5 times the character's level. In-combat health regen is capped at 3 times the character's level. These numbers may be adjusted during testing.</LI> <LI>When outside of combat, characters now receive both in-combat and non-combat regen effects. Previously only the greater of the two applied.</LI></UL> Fighter Changes <UL> <LI>The combat art damage output of Fighters has been set below that of Scouts. Auto-attack damage has been made comparable to that of Scouts.</LI> <LI>All subclasses of Fighters now have both primary defensive and offensive stances.</LI> <LI>As part of their defensive stance, each subclass of Fighter now receives extra mitigation against a specific type of damage.</LI> <LI>Crusaders now receive the Spear and Great Spear skills.</LI> <LI>Shadowknights have been given improved lifetap effect and harm touch reuse.</LI> <LI>Bruisers' base health is now equal to that of Monks.</LI> <LI>Brawlers can now deflect, parry, and riposte attacks from any direction, not just the front. ===> ??</LI></UL> Scout Changes <UL> <LI>The spell/art damage of Scouts has been increased.</LI> <LI>Auto-attack damage for Assassins and Rangers has been increased.</LI> <LI>Swashbucklers and Brigands received a slight health increase. ===> ??</LI> <LI>Rangers, Assassins, Swashbucklers, and Brigands now have both offensive and defensive stances. ===> ??</LI> <LI>Bards now have decreased cast times on some target encounter debuffs. </LI> <LI>Assassins gain improved damage output of stealth attacks.</LI> <LI>Ranger: Steady Aim is now a more powerful short term ranged skill increase.</LI> <LI>Brigand: Beg for Mercy has changed to target a player that places a reactive spell effect on them. This reactive spell effect causes them to lose a massive amount of hate to the entire encounter.</LI> <LI>Swashbuckler: Inspired Daring now grants a 100% proc that lasts for 13 seconds.</LI> <LI>Dirge: Hyran's Angry Sonata allows the Dirge to target the group's Fighter to increase the aggro they gain.</LI> <LI>Troubador: Alin's Soothing Serenade lets the Troubador decrease hate for all group members other than Fighters.</LI></UL> Mage Changes <UL> <LI>Summoner main pets will no longer spawn with a down arrow.</LI> <LI>Enchanters gain a long-duration Charm spell for non-heroic creatures which requires 3 concentration.</LI> <LI>Warlocks now have contagious forms of noxious resistance debuffs.</LI> <LI>Conjurer: Conjurer's Mark grants the pet an elemental resist debuff proc whenever they attack.</LI> <LI>Necromancer: Transfer Life heals at the cost of the Necromancer's health.</LI> <LI>Necromancer: Lifetap, which drains health from the target to the Necromancer, is now obtained at level 20.</LI></UL> Priest Changes <UL> <LI>Priest: Priests now have increased damage capability.</LI> <LI>Priest: Group healing has been improved.</LI> <LI>Fury: Call Lightning is a 45s recast powerful single-target damage spell.</LI> <LI>Shamans now receive the Great Spear skill.</LI></UL> <HR> Ok i have marked off in yellow what applys to us most. Now keep in mind, in the accual thread by Moorgard it states that Fighter and Priests are still a work in progress while Mages and Scouts are pretty much where they want them to be. As you can see, yes we are losing some DPS due to having our Auto Attack damage reduced to that of a Scout, but we are also losing the cast timers on single target damage CA's and skills we possess while at the same time there going to cost less to cast due to the new combat system reducing the cost of them to be cast. So in a nut shell, CA's that effect a single target will be INSTANT and then all you have to wait for is the cool down timer to reuse the CA again. Also note that alot of other skills and CA's will have there Cast timers greatly reduced. So this is where we will make our DPS back up due to having lost some due to Auto Attack being nerfed to that of a Scout. The thing i am curious to know is, note that Fighters are having there Auto Attack speed reduced to Scouts? Well what happens when we become a Berserker? Do we fall under Assassins and Rangers? Im guessing that we wont be falling under Assassins and Rangers cause thats Monks / Bruisers spot, so we are falling under Monks / Bruisers, which is how its always been. Another thing im curious about is why do Scouts need a Defensive stance if all they are is a offensive based char which is what they have wanted all along? Why the need for a Defensive stance on a PURE Offensive class has got me wondering. This is just my opion, but seeing Berserkers are a Offensive Tank, and dont take me for being greedy, but i feel that only Warriors / Crusaders / Brawlers should be getting the choice between Offensive / Defensive stances, after all, Fighters are Tanks so we are being constantly told by SoE themselves, and Scouts dont seem to be falling under Fighter, so why the need for a Defensive stance on a Scout SoE? Also in conjunction with Scouts getting a Defensive stance, why are Brigands and Swasbucklers getting more HP???? What are you saying here SoE, Scouts will be a DPS class + Tank, or at least have the ability to Tank + DPS if they want too? Brawlers being able to Parry, Deflect and Riposte from any direction is another thing that has me baffled. Ok, Parry from behind is understandable as a Monk / Bruiser must be aware of his surroundings, that makes sense, but what are you going to "Deflect" with the back of your head or back, honestly? And Riposte from behind, im starting to get flash backs of Mr.Anderson from the Matrix, or the model T1000 from Terminator 2 where he goes to punch him in the back of the head and his head molds around his fist to becomes his hands and all of a sudden he is facing him. Yes i realise its all a fantasy world, but even fantasy has its restrictions on making it feel like a reality. Anyways, post on how you feel these changes will effect you and your role as being a Berserker. For me, i can see us doing as much DPS as we do now because of the reduced timer + no timer of certain CA's while on the other hand getting a increase in our ability to Tank which is a good thing all round. Use svanny screen shots and put some effort and thought into it instead of "omgz we are going to be [Removed for Content]" before posting please.</DIV>Message Edited by -Aonein- on 08-08-2005 02:04 PM

Khal

08-08-2005, 07:06 AM

<DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV> "The thing i am curious to know is, note that Fighters are having there Auto Attack speed reduced to Scouts? Well what happens when we become a Berserker? Do we fall under Assassins and Rangers? Im guessing that we wont be falling under Assassins and Rangers cause thats Monks / Bruisers spot, so we are falling under Monks / Bruisers, which is how its always been." </DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Brawlers= pred auto attack Berserker/SK=rogue auto attack Guardian/Paladin= just under rogue auto attack There was a post regarding this somewhere, not sure if I can find it, but I'll try</DIV>

Swordmage

08-08-2005, 02:26 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> -Aonein- wrote: <DIV> Another thing im curious about is why do Scouts need a Defensive stance if all they are is a offensive based char which is what they have wanted all along? <UL> <LI>Can you say, "solo" -- and anyway offensive and defensive stances aren't skills so much as aggressive or careful fighting attitudes (am I more concerned about getting hit that trying that tricky move).</LI></UL> Brawlers being able to Parry, Deflect and Riposte from any direction is another thing that has me baffled. Ok, Parry from behind is understandable as a Monk / Bruiser must be aware of his surroundings, that makes sense, but what are you going to "Deflect" with the back of your head or back, honestly? And Riposte from behind, im starting to get flash backs of Mr.Anderson from the Matrix, or the model T1000 from Terminator 2 where he goes to punch him in the back of the head and his head molds around his fist to becomes his hands and all of a sudden he is facing him. Yes i realise its all a fantasy world, but even fantasy has its restrictions on making it feel like a reality. <UL> <LI>You obviously haven't watched the requisite 2000 hours of Kung Fu movies, what's happening to education these days. But, even as a monk, I might actually say that reposte to the back is a bit overpowering -- but so much fun.</LI></UL> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> I am still working my berserker up to 20 on test now, so I will have more useful things to say in a couple of weeks, but one thing to keep in mind is that DPS seems to be lower across the board, fights take longer, and judging by the numbers can cause one to misread the realities. So far I am happy with what I see (in the low end). I am still adjusting my expectations about what targets are doable (I keep trying green heroics when solo even though I know they are problematic); however, so far I haven't had any trouble with the targets that are advertised as legitimate (white and low yellow solo mobs).

-Aonein-

08-08-2005, 03:37 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Swordmage wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> -Aonein- wrote: Another thing im curious about is why do Scouts need a Defensive stance if all they are is a offensive based char which is what they have wanted all along? <UL> <LI>Can you say, "solo" -- and anyway offensive and defensive stances aren't skills so much as aggressive or careful fighting attitudes (am I more concerned about getting hit that trying that tricky move).</LI></UL> Brawlers being able to Parry, Deflect and Riposte from any direction is another thing that has me baffled. Ok, Parry from behind is understandable as a Monk / Bruiser must be aware of his surroundings, that makes sense, but what are you going to "Deflect" with the back of your head or back, honestly? And Riposte from behind, im starting to get flash backs of Mr.Anderson from the Matrix, or the model T1000 from Terminator 2 where he goes to punch him in the back of the head and his head molds around his fist to becomes his hands and all of a sudden he is facing him. Yes i realise its all a fantasy world, but even fantasy has its restrictions on making it feel like a reality. <UL> <LI>You obviously haven't watched the requisite 2000 hours of Kung Fu movies, what's happening to education these days. But, even as a monk, I might actually say that reposte to the back is a bit overpowering -- but so much fun.</LI></UL> <DIV> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> I am still working my berserker up to 20 on test now, so I will have more useful things to say in a couple of weeks, but one thing to keep in mind is that DPS seems to be lower across the board, fights take longer, and judging by the numbers can cause one to misread the realities. So far I am happy with what I see (in the low end). I am still adjusting my expectations about what targets are doable (I keep trying green heroics when solo even though I know they are problematic); however, so far I haven't had any trouble with the targets that are advertised as legitimate (white and low yellow solo mobs). <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <LI>Can you say, "solo" -- and anyway offensive and defensive stances aren't skills so much as aggressive or careful fighting attitudes (am I more concerned about getting hit that trying that tricky move).</LI> They dont have Defensive stances now, why should they after the combat changes to solo? Like SoE already stated : " we feel the game works the way it should for solo and small group play " so whats the purpose of a Defensive stance on a Scout + more HP? And if you read the descriptions a tad closer, one raises your Offensive ability while letting you use Offensive skills while the other raises your Defensive abilitys while letting you use Defensive skills, its rip off from WoW, they use the exact same system with Tanks, they have a Defensive and Offensive stance that you can only use certain types of skills during each stance, so gone is the times of being able to use any CA or skill when ever you want. You obviously haven't watched the requisite 2000 hours of Kung Fu movies, what's happening to education these days. But, even as a monk, I might actually say that reposte to the back is a bit overpowering -- but so much fun. <DIV>Like i said, Parry from behind is understandable, that makes sense, what exactally do you expect to be using to Deflect from behind and since when can you throw a foot our your heine?</DIV>Message Edited by -Aonein- on 08-08-2005 10:40 PM

Styk

08-08-2005, 05:30 PM

Aoenin i forgot to mention bro, /join antonia_bayle.swberserker and the PW is ruthless, its the berserker serverwide channel now <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> trying to get as many Zerkers as possible on this channel , These combat changes will be difficult for alot of the berserker community to grasp BUT the one thing i see out of it is we will finally be doing what our class should have been doing from the start . BEING AN OFFENSE ORIENTED TANK. I'm glad these changes are comming about ( that and we will once again be Melee AE GODS hehe ) .... Once we get a clear grasp on what our CA/spells will look like from 37-50 , most zerkers will see what we are truly in for { * hint hint we need SS's for our 37-50 spells pls <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> } <div></div>

Swordmage

08-08-2005, 05:31 PM

I may have been a little too flip in my last response, I appologize. <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <HR> -Aonein- wrote:</BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE> They dont have Defensive stances now, why should they after the combat changes to solo? Like SoE already stated : " we feel the game works the way it should for solo and small group play " <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> That is true, however that general statement glosses over some inconsistency in the way the game works for soloing among the classes. The scouts as a type were some of the worst soloers in the game. A little love wouldn't hurt and certainly doesn't affect the relative roles of the classes in groups.

cr0wangel

08-08-2005, 06:27 PM

I don't fully understand how all the changes will apply and what combat will be after the update. We will loose avoidance but get more mitigation... and defensive skills, so we should be better tanks right? For sure it will feel like a new game, with all the skills changing, items changing, we will have to learn how to play our characters again... -sigh- I looked at the screenshots for the skills, it's all ''new'' skills, we have a good reason to be scared... A question about berserk: It seems the attack speed while going berserk will be reduced but DPS increased (for now we have +5% DPS, +30% to 48% speed while berserk) it will be changed to (+12,5% DPS, +12,5% speed) what will be the consequenses of this in game? A question about HP buffs, haste buffs: we got skills to regenerate health as a replacement? O_o As some people said, what will be our utility in group if we don't buff HP and haste...I have a bad feeling about this. I loved those buffs and I was STR / STA oriented, it seems I will need to get new gear (tank will need WIS also, since WIS will be used to calculate spells damage, so tanks will need STA, STR, AGI, WIS... a lot of stats we need). A question about DPS vs taunt: if we loose DPS how we will keep aggro as before? I feel like I will be lost when the update will come live, I am berserker level 50, I will have to learn again how to play. <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Edit: Anyone have more info on this:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>what i saw last night with my level 24 zerker on test is. ALL buff cost one conscentration!!!! some cost 3. a 30 sec buff cost one consentration!!! yeat the recast timer is still one min. </DIV>Message Edited by cr0wangel on 08-08-2005 11:48 AM

uux

08-08-2005, 09:42 PM

<div></div><div></div><blockquote>cr0wangel wrote: [...] A question about berserk: It seems the attack speed while going berserk will be reduced but DPS increased (for now we have +5% DPS, +30% to 48% speed while berserk) it will be changed to (+12,5% DPS, +12,5% speed) what will be the consequenses of this in game? </blockquote> Also, will multiple berserk procs stack? Just curious if this has changed as well. <div></div>Message Edited by uux on 08-08-2005 11:12 AMMessage Edited by uux on 08-08-2005 11:13 AM

Styk

08-08-2005, 09:52 PM

Berserk Procs never "stacked" they just overwrote each other so they were a continious chain, i imagine it wouldnt change now , since proc rate is random, also it seems now that berserk proc is one haste and DPS increase rate , unlike before where various buffs had different rates of haste etc <div></div>

uux

08-08-2005, 10:19 PM

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Styker wrote:Berserk Procs never "stacked" they just overwrote each other so they were a continious chain, i imagine it wouldnt change now , since proc rate is random, also it seems now that berserk proc is one haste and DPS increase rate , unlike before where various buffs had different rates of haste etc <div></div><hr></blockquote> They don't stack now. My question is will they? Just look at the description of Rage in the other thread. Rage Adept I Builds rage within the berserker, granting a chance at becoming berserk while in combat. While berserk, attack speed and melee combat damage is increased. Effects: * Casts Berserk on caster. On a successful attack this spell has a 10% chance to: - Increase Attack Speed and Damage Per Second of caster by 15.1% * Casts Berserk on caster. When target is damaged this spell has a 30% chance to: - Increase Damage Per Second and Attack Speed of caster by 15.1% * Casts Berserk on caster: - Increases Damage Per Second and Attack Speed of caster by 15.1% If they will not stack, then what is the point of the reactives (given the last listed effect permanently grants Berserk)?<div></div>Message Edited by uux on 08-08-2005 11:22 AM

Svan

08-09-2005, 01:34 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> uux wrote: If they will not stack, then what is the point of the reactives (given the last listed effect permanently grants Berserk)? <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>i havent gotten more than 1 berserk buff on me yet.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Rage is not permanent. it casts berserk on you when you cast it, has a chance to cast when you get hit, and has a chance to cast when you hit. the berserk buff is still the same duration.</DIV>

uux

08-09-2005, 04:36 PM

Ah. Thanks for the info. <div></div>