Theoretical Discussion on Combat Changes

[Ralluw]

I know this post is likely to be flamebait, but I have put some thought into what might be happening and have to express it.  To anyone that posts a "wait till it is live" or "you don't know what they are really doing" this thread is 100% theoretical and threrefore since you are so concerned with facts you should just skip it and read the next one about how our fluff spells suck or something. Anyways, my concerns about the combat changes will be effected is that it won't be from a ground up, but rather alot of rebalancing and tweaking.  Perhaps I am wrong, and if they have totally destroyed the system and rebuilt it much of what I am to say has little fondation. But... We know that no one is going to get buffed in these changes, they general idea is to increase the challange of game combat, we also know buff stacking is going to be nerfed, specifically the stacking of buffs to make 100mit/100adv (or near to) tanks.  These means they will not be inproving tanking ability at all, so the berserker is not about to be buffed up to the level of a guardian, rather the guardian is to be nerfed and us along with them.  The only saving grace on this is that mobs dps will likely be nerfed so as to make them at least doable (i am actually talking about heroics here). DPS isn't going up for scouts/mages except the worst afflicted (such as enchanters), they will not increase scout DPS as this will make encounters only easier, instead DPS will be decreased as needed, berserkers probably seeing the biggest hit, but also brawlers.  But how will DPS be decreased, not by the weapons as this would decrease scouts as well, likely it will be done via out skills. We know Tides of War (you know this would be the first I would mention) was always ment to be self haste only (much like the guardians self haste), and most deffinantly that is what it will become in the changes, this is a massive nerf across the melee board, not just to the utility of the zerker, but the melee DPS of all classes that grouped with zerkers. Hastes in general I expect to be highly nerfed for zerkers, proabably hasting about 50% less (i.e. 50% of currently 50% haste on TOW Adpt3 = 25% haste post changes) and will include the Screaming Fury/Destructive Rage line and berzerks as well.  There may also be a hard haste cap put in place and possibly even non-stacking between haste lines (such as bard/chanter/self hastes). Proc rates on our skills such as Anarchy and Berzerks may also be nerfed to decrease out DPS and god forbid, but Anarchy might actually be made a self only proc with group AC buff, but this would be the deathblow on zerk utility. I am focusing mainly on the DPS issues here, because that is what I forsee as being the biggest nerf we will be facing but I would be interested in hearing more on other possibly effects, or perhaps other views that are not to catastrophic.  Personally I am expecting the worst and hoping that is all that will occur. Now for a flame not directed at any classes/archetypes, but more toward SoE.  Alot of scouts point out that we do equal DPS to them and can tank to boot, we counter with the utility card saying they have more, they of course (and rightly so I agree) point out that utility is simply icing and not comparable to something as substaintial as tanking, echanters play this card too (again I agree with them).  My flame isn't on scouts enchanters or anyone, but on SoE for not making utility worthwhile.  No one plays an illusionist expecting to nuke the mobs by blowing up there heads (maybe some) but realistically most choose enchanter because they wanted to take control over the weaker minded (read: crappy game AI).  Many scouts did choose DPS, but many were lured by utility only to find it lacking, they expected "useful" lock picking, speed, stealth, steal (odd how those words are so similar), snare, poisons (useful, but costly), bows (again good arrows nice, but costly), ect.  Frankly I think SOE's game suffers more from too simple a system such that it is not adaptable to exploits and high TCF players while still suitable to legit and casual gamers. Anyways, I have said my piece, let the nuclear war begin and may whatever dieties you may worship, even if they have abandoned us, have mercy upon our souls. <div></div>

[einar4]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ralluwen wrote:<BR>rebuilt it much of what I am to say has little fondation. But...<BR><BR><STRONG><FONT color=#cc0000>We know that no one is going to get buffed in these changes</FONT></STRONG>, they general idea is to increase the challange of game combat, we also know buff stacking is going to be nerfed, specifically the stacking of buffs to make 100mit/100adv (or near to) tanks.  These means they will not be inproving tanking ability at all, so the berserker is not about to be buffed up to the level of a guardian, rather the guardian is to be nerfed and us along with them.  The only saving grace on this is that mobs dps will likely be nerfed so as to make them at least doable (i am actually talking about heroics here).<BR><BR>DPS isn't going up for scouts/mages except the worst afflicted (such as enchanters),<FONT color=#cc0000> <STRONG>they will not increase scout DPS as this will make encounters only easier, instead DPS will be decreased as needed, berserkers probably seeing the biggest hit, but also brawlers</STRONG></FONT>.  But how will DPS be decreased, not by the weapons as this would decrease scouts as well, likely it will be done via out skills.<BR><BR>We know Tides of War (you know this would be the first I would mention) was always ment to be self haste only (much like the guardians self haste), <STRONG><FONT color=#cc0000>and most deffinantly that is what it will become in the changes, this is a massive nerf across the melee board, not just to the utility of the zerker, but the melee DPS of all classes that grouped with zerkers</FONT></STRONG>.<BR><BR>Hastes in general I expect to be highly nerfed for zerkers, proabably hasting about 50% less (i.e. 50% of currently 50% haste on TOW Adpt3 = 25% haste post changes) and will include the Screaming Fury/Destructive Rage line and berzerks as well.  There may also be a hard haste cap put in place and possibly even non-stacking between haste lines (such as bard/chanter/self hastes).<BR><BR><STRONG><FONT color=#cc0000>Proc rates on our skills such as Anarchy and Berzerks may also be nerfed to decrease out DPS and god forbid, but Anarchy might actually be made a self only proc with group AC buff, but this would be the deathblow on zerk utility</FONT></STRONG>.<BR><BR>I am focusing mainly on the DPS issues here, because that is what I forsee as being the biggest nerf we will be facing but I would be interested in hearing more on other possibly effects, or perhaps other views that are not to catastrophic.  Personally I am expecting the worst and hoping that is all that will occur.<BR><BR>Now for a flame not directed at any classes/archetypes, but more toward SoE.  Alot of scouts point out that we do equal DPS to them and can tank to boot, we counter with the utility card saying they have more, they of course (and rightly so I agree) point out that utility is simply icing and not comparable to something as substaintial as tanking, echanters play this card too (again I agree with them).  My flame isn't on scouts enchanters or anyone, but on SoE for not making utility worthwhile.  No one plays an illusionist expecting to nuke the mobs by blowing up there heads (maybe some) but realistically most choose enchanter because they wanted to take control over the weaker minded (read: crappy game AI).  Many scouts did choose DPS, but many were lured by utility only to find it lacking, they expected "useful" lock picking, speed, stealth, steal (odd how those words are so similar), snare, poisons (useful, but costly), bows (again good arrows nice, but costly), ect.  Frankly I think SOE's game suffers more from too simple a system such that it is not adaptable to exploits and high TCF players while still suitable to legit and casual gamers.<BR><BR>Anyways, I have said my piece, let the nuclear war begin and may whatever dieties you may worship, even if they have abandoned us, have mercy upon our souls.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR></DIV> <DIV> I'm not wanting to flame, as I am not going to get into a theoretical dispute over the number of angels that can dance on the head of a pin, but I simply ask:  Where are you getting such specific information about the combat changes? Are they on test now?  And if they are, why not do some testing and see what's what?  You could take the "Theoretical" out of the discussion. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> This seems like a type of argument where you do a sidewise slip of an unsupported premise and then build a huge set of arguments that logically follow without first substantiating the premise. If you are concerned, work on a berserker on the test so you can closely examine the combat changes as soon as they hit the test server.  You can provide feedback and take the devs to task for any foolishness they try to foist on us. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>