To those that think Raid Zerks will suffer from the changes.. [Archive]

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-Mor

06-29-2005, 12:14 PM

Firstly, there changing everyone, not just Zerks, secondly, DPS is not everything, far from it.... Stun, power drain, interupt, tank mitigation buffs, helping the MT maintain aggro, Anarchy (parse a long raid fight where anarchy is always up and add up the damage) Sure I DPS high on some but not all raids, but i'm wearing plate so I can take the risk of the odd slap or two so I can push harder than a 'dps' class, and even if we do get droped down the DPS tree, I can then go flat out DPS when raiding rather than tone it down by 50% because I have less risk of aggroing through damage dealt, thus I'm confident my parses wont be much lower than they were before... I have parsed raids with multiple zerks on them, I may parse say, 210 DPS, and another parses 95 DPS, my gear is no different realisticaly to the other Zerk, just how I play, sequences of arts, buffs I maintain etc... There are other things at play for big DPS Zerkers, slow weapons and proc's being the main one (theres a great thread about the mechanics of procs and weapon speeds, too lazy to find it). If the backstabbers didnt have to worry as much about aggro as they do (and have the wep imunity/stacking issues that they do in raids), I think you'd find the numbers would be rather different. Say what you like, but statements about how unfair it is because you want to be a uber DPS tank are just plain silly, I have played Zerkers in all the MMO's I'v played, and boy was I surprised when I hit 20 in EQ2, plate armour on a Zerk, and here I was all the years of Zerking thinking Zerkers were LIGHT tanks. If your the tanking type, fear not, Guards will be hit with a similar stick so we'll be near enough, if you like the DPS side, you can now got flat stick and worry less about aggro.. Nothing is static in any MMO, theres constant tweeking going on, adapt, change your approach just a little and it's all good.. <div></div>

Azr

06-29-2005, 01:43 PM

<DIV>I need a breathalizer on my comp, dumb drunken post. I would like to personally say appoligise to Mort. I am not as optomistic as you about the changes, but there was no call for my response. As far as being top one percent of dmg for a zerk, the average beserk is not even lvl 50. Just being lvl 50 should put you in top 2 percent. Having mostly master or adept 3 skills and fable wep, should put you near the top 1 percent, anyways that was my drunken logic at the time, dumb thing to say though.</DIV> Message Edited by Azril on 06-29-2005 02:35 PM Message Edited by Azril on 06-29-2005 02:41 PM Message Edited by Azril on 06-29-2005 02:48 PMMessage Edited by Azril on 06-29-2005 04:13 PM

-Mor

06-29-2005, 07:38 PM

<div></div>Cant believe I'm even responding to you but here goes,Thank you for hijacking a relatively harmless post regarding an optimistic view of the future with a poorly constructed 'I'm uber and your not' beginning with a statement like the one below,"I have to beg the simple question, do you know anything about raid mechanics atm"Followed by the customary 'I am uber because my equipment makes me so' statement, and yes as a matter of fact I am well aware of how raids work, I have led an awful lot of them, clearly you needed to vent as your so upset about the changes it may just make you leave the game in disgust...One can only hopeI don't hide who I am or what server I live on...<div></div>

casserolej

06-29-2005, 08:37 PM

Azril, could you please post your berserkers in-game name and server please.Thank you

Pin StNeedl

06-29-2005, 09:18 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> casserolejoe wrote: Azril, could you please post your berserkers in-game name and server please. Thank you <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> His character is "Zerk", an Ogre Berserker in the level 24 guild <Archons> on the Nektulos server. edit: He wasn't hiding it from anyone... Not that it matters, of course - there shouldn't need to be any requirement to associate your character with your forum posts.Message Edited by Pin StNeedles on 06-29-2005 06:19 PM

casserolej

06-29-2005, 09:59 PM

I don't feel he was required to post his name either. I just wanted to know.Seems like a guy who says he's the best equipped berserker on his entire server and in the top 1% DPS gamewide for his class would be a pretty awesome guy. awesomely conceited

Pin StNeedl

06-29-2005, 10:16 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> -Mort- wrote: Firstly, there changing everyone, not just Zerks, secondly, DPS is not everything, far from it.... Stun, power drain, interupt, tank mitigation buffs, helping the MT maintain aggro, Anarchy (parse a long raid fight where anarchy is always up and add up the damage) Sure I DPS high on some but not all raids, but i'm wearing plate so I can take the risk of the odd slap or two so I can push harder than a 'dps' class, and even if we do get droped down the DPS tree, I can then go flat out DPS when raiding rather than tone it down by 50% because I have less risk of aggroing through damage dealt, thus I'm confident my parses wont be much lower than they were before... I have parsed raids with multiple zerks on them, I may parse say, 210 DPS, and another parses 95 DPS, my gear is no different realisticaly to the other Zerk, just how I play, sequences of arts, buffs I maintain etc... There are other things at play for big DPS Zerkers, slow weapons and proc's being the main one (theres a great thread about the mechanics of procs and weapon speeds, too lazy to find it). I mostly agree with you. I made my character to be a tank. I chose Berserker at level 20 to have an offensive edge, not to go for the highest DPS character on most raids (which is often the case at the moment). And luckily there is much more to a Berserker than DPS, or I'd be bored out of my mind <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> But having an 'offensive edge' doesn't mean I should be topping most DPS parses on raids - at the moment I do and it's largely down to the buffs your group gives (being in the MT group and having 450-500str, compared to an off-group sitting at 250-300str makes a huge difference, as does weapon choice). However, I still don't tone it down for (most) raids where I'm not tanking as there's usually no point - I won't pull aggro from a Guard that knows how to hold it, and nor should any scout going full-DPS. If the backstabbers didnt have to worry as much about aggro as they do (and have the wep imunity/stacking issues that they do in raids), I think you'd find the numbers would be rather different. It's a little flippant to say you don't care about pulling aggro because you can take the hits though... If you pull aggro while DPSing, the mob turns, and all those scouts around you will fall over as ripostes 2-shot them in under a second. You still need to be careful and work within the limits of the guy tanking. Say what you like, but statements about how unfair it is because you want to be a uber DPS tank are just plain silly, I have played Zerkers in all the MMO's I'v played, and boy was I surprised when I hit 20 in EQ2, plate armour on a Zerk, and here I was all the years of Zerking thinking Zerkers were LIGHT tanks. If your the tanking type, fear not, Guards will be hit with a similar stick so we'll be near enough, if you like the DPS side, you can now got flat stick and worry less about aggro.. Yes, Guards and Zerks will still be similar when tanking - both will be reduced (hopefully not as much as they were last night though <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />). And I expect to be able to DPS reasonably when wanted (reasonably means middle-of-pack to me). Nothing is static in any MMO, theres constant tweeking going on, adapt, change your approach just a little and it's all good.. Exactly <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>

Sabin the Gre

06-29-2005, 11:33 PM

A few points I'd like to throw in. <OL> <LI>Full fabled doesn't make you good. It just means you have tons of freetime.</LI> <LI>If you think we're going to suck after the revamp, hang up your boots and roll a predator so you can fable him up.</LI> <LI>610 dps in a single group. You want a cookie? Do 500+ DPS for 70-90k total damage in a raid (w/o a dirge or chanter in group) then I might care.</LI> <LI>I don't have full fabled. But I have some.</LI> <LI>If 380 HP's and 50% Increased attack speed is the only thing to add to the group I feel bad for Nektulos and the Archons. There's this really cool skill called Anarchy. At Master 1 it gives your WHOLE GROUP a chance to proc for around 350-650 damage. Did I mention its up for around 42 seconds and down for only around 18. And yea, it adds around 250 mitigation as well. So considering melee's in my group generally proc anarchy a minimum of 3 times on any given cast thats 15 procs (5 melee of sorts + healer) for around 5250 - 9750 extra damage per minute in anarchy procs alone. Or roughly around 50 dps per group member on average. </LI> <LI>If you pulling agro from the maintank leads to your raids wiping 90% of the time you have issues. There's only a handful of mobs that come to mind that could potentially wipe a raid when someone pulls agro from the MT. For the record if it walks around on Norrath I've killed it once, and I've likely killed it since the 6k aoe crush patch.</LI></OL> <DIV>So that being said, I still plan on kicking a heap of hiney after the patch.</DIV>

-Mor

06-30-2005, 06:39 AM

Just to clarify my statement regarding getting aggro from time to time, principaly it's on training raids, like King Drayek where it pays to have a secondary tank incase the MT gets an unfortunate Ice Commet or a random pice of ice dropping from the roof after he's been knocked back from the 'pillar' you wall him to, you need to stay high on the aggro list so a single PoV will take the aggro immediately off the healers / bards, and with any tank / off tank you need to test the boundaries to know exactaly how hard to push in order to stay #2 on the hit list.... <div></div>