Why do guardians get better offensive buffs than berserker's?

[Poochymama]

<DIV>We all know that guardians have better defensive buffs than berserkers, that is how its supposed to be. Even Moorgrad has said that guardians and berserkers are they same but guardians have more defesive buffs and berserker's have more offensive oriented buffs. Up last night i thought that this was true, but its not. Guardians desperate rush gives gives around 60% haste. The berserker equivalent to this is Tides of War which gives 49-50% haste. Berserker's get War Chant which adds around 12 strength, the Guardian equivalent gives 23 strength. As far as adding to slashing/peircing/chrushing we are exactly equal. If guardians get better offensive buffs then why do they also get better defensive buffs. Guardians can add about 100 more health than bersrkers. They can also add an extra 2 lvls of defence. And they can add around 300 mitigation. And one of there skills is broken and when it gets fixed they will be able to self buff themselves by over 1500 mitigation. Where is the fairness in this?LOUD NOISES!!!!</DIV>

[Gyilok]

looks like your forgetting the haste and dps you get from berserk state, and which they obviously dont have

[-Mor]

<DIV>We get 60% haste, they stack... next, we get PoV, a short burst +23 str buff added to the  normal buff, as poined out we zerk constantly so thats 5% to DPS and the haste, oh, the Zerks stack... hmm, Anarchy anyone , nice group proc at adept 3 and a few decent half decent AOE's..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I can see some big differences, besides, parse yourself with a guardian that'll show you where it's all happening..</DIV>

[satisfi]

<P>at lvl 45 (human zerker) and no special upgrades as of yet to my adepts, i can pull mobs of our lvl 48 (human guardian) due to dps only, no taunts.  im using the PGT and SBD as weapons.  i think the guardian does its job as protector, while the zerker flails away in a rage.  good compliments to each other.</P> <P> </P> <P>V---  old sig block</P>

[Parax]

Don't forget the combat art Fury, I constantly use this counter-attack and it does wonders on reducing the hit points on the mobs. Especially if it is a group of mobs in the encounter.

[Pernicious Pira]

 man i wish i could get in game to spit out exact numbers but i disagree with some of yours with the skills i have. We all know that guardians have better defensive buffs than berserkers <font color="#ff6600"> </font><font color="#ff6600">#1 Guardians desperate rush gives gives around 60% haste. The berserker equivalent to this is Tides of War which gives 49-50% haste.</font><font color="#ff33cc"> </font><font color="#ff33cc"> </font>  Tides of war is not a short desperate rush its there 24/7 The INfuriate is more akin to that and mine is like 69% and stacks on top tides of war. I say we got it much better. <font color="#ff6600"> </font><font color="#ff6600">#2  Berserker's get War Chant which adds around 12 strength, the Guardian equivalent gives 23 strength.</font>  My warchant grants party 24 strength. I say thats better <font color="#ff3399"> <font color="#ff6600">#3 Guardians can add about 100 more health than bersrkers.</font></font>    IM not sure here but with 2 adeptIII.s and one master I add over 1000 i do believe. or very very close to it. If game was up I could be all [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] retentive and give exact number. <font color="#ff6600">#4 They can also add an extra 2 lvls of defence. </font>  Big whoop. My what is it controled rage or something like that... if i use it grants me +18 defense. As i see it game grants 5 per level so +18 is near 4 levels of defense.    I know you like chicken but if it was me. I would wack chicken little with my Zerker skills and stop him from running around screamin the sky is fallin. I actually loved your post. as best i can see cause i dont read guardian skills. You demonstrated all my skills are better.  I do know from hunting with and around them they take less damage all buffed up and i steal aggro and rip it a few new port holes much faster and better. Everything seems in order to me and working correctly.

[Noctismort]

<DIV>agree here with the last post, I AM a level 50 Guardian and Zerkers are Guardians with much better DPS. The combat changes cannot come out sooner.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Noctismortis on <span class=date_text>06-13-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:46 AM</span>

[Styk]

why is it that people start really waking posts like this ? HP buff stacking that warrior types can do is overpowered as it is and will be fixed ( they better fix the scaling as well ) Guard self haste takes power from them , our Group Hastes doesnt and last for 10 min a pop Controlled Rage does not stack with stance Skullcrusher  and gets overwritten by other class defense buffs so yeah dont even count those..... A Guardian can do dps with us in their group, like we can tank as well as them with a guardian in the group.... if you want 2 buffs that are really good Get Weapon Guard Master 1 ( + 19 to parry  ) and Unbridled Fury Master 1 ( fires of so [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] much that the 15 proc then "poof" comes within a min of it being buffed ) then go and solo a 48^^ and you will love it <div></div>

[Mie]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> <P>Styker wrote:<BR>why is it that people start really waking posts like this ?<BR><BR>HP buff stacking that warrior types can do is overpowered as it is and will be fixed ( they better fix the scaling as well )</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Whats the point ? How about Priest type ?</FONT><BR><BR>Guard self haste takes power from them , our Group Hastes doesnt and last for 10 min a pop</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Guardian self haste virtually use no mana. End game balance issue. There are many mana regen. gears.</FONT><BR><BR>Controlled Rage does not stack with stance Skullcrusher  and gets overwritten by other class defense buffs so yeah dont even count those.....</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Zerker heavy plenty defense buff doesn't stack with Guardian group buff while Guardian self haste do stack with Zerker haste. Make sense ? :smileymad:</FONT><BR><BR>A Guardian can do dps with us in their group, like we can tank as well as them with a guardian in the group....<BR><BR>if you want 2 buffs that are really good<BR><BR>Get Weapon Guard Master 1 ( + 19 to parry  ) and Unbridled Fury Master 1 ( fires of so [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] much that the 15 proc then "poof" comes within a min of it being buffed )</P> <P><BR>then go and solo a 48^^ and you will love it<BR></P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[-Mor]

I raid a lot, too much in fact it's all I do, let me tell you when it's time to take on the big boys (Darathar being the biggest) I'm none too keen to tank, regardless of the 'my art is bigger then yours' rubbish, I have plenty of top end gear as you'd expect for the end game, Guardians can pump their own defences higher than ours, it's not a big ask to get a Guardian to over 300 in defence (this is where the real stuff happens, press L and have a look at your defencive skill, 300+ means your = to a level 60). Getting a Zerker to that same point is considerably more difficult as our defencive buffs really arent that good in comparrison. Sure, I can tank MG, both King's and various other mid tier raid mobs, but the really tough stuff is where Guards shine, what can I do better than a guard ? I can gain aggro much much faster, means if the MT looses aggro I can take it with 2 swings, if not 1 (yay PoV), and then tone it down so the Guard gets it back, I can also relieve some of the healing stress by peeling one or a few of the adds from the MT in larger battles if the healers are struggling. In short, Zerks are the guy's you want beside you when things go astray, I die more than the MT because thats my job. I suppose it's all subjective really, and I'm bored at work <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> In my view, MT = Guard, MA = Zerker <div></div>

[XensosKinein]

<P>Ahhhhhh... finally someone speaking sense. It's not about who has what... Working together, Guards and Zerkers are excellent compliments to each other. They buff Def... we buff Att toss a Tp and a scout in there, and the group is golden. It's about teamwork ppl.</P> <P>BTW, I couldn't agree more. I see too many guards MAing. Send a Zerk to handle adds in a raid situation. At 45, I had no problem tanking ^^50x2 groups with a warden and a pally.</P>