Berserkers and tanking

[Laereneth]

<DIV>I know that all fighter types can tank to some degree.  And through the life of my zerk, I've been tanking just find for the most point.  I know that zerks are supposed to be one of the better fighter types with agro, but my question is to how well we take a beating?  I'm looking more for the top end responses.  I know that guardians are supposed to be the best at taking a beating, but really how far behind them are we?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Bjoern</DIV>

[Khal]

<DIV>Won't even notice a differance in tanking in normal group fighting most likely.  Zerkers can tank certain raids, but guardians are clearly better.</DIV>

[Styk]

Thou i hate to admit it Khaled is spot on about our assesment on berserker raid tanking ...... <div></div>

[Friskc]

<P>ROFL... i simply dont have a clue what yall are talking about i raid tank push 300 + defense 10000+ hp 4000+ ac and fabled out . guess what i do fine!! seeing were always in same group most cases with a gaurd you dont notice much of it in a raid situation if your tanking as a zerker.......</P> <P>oh yea wanted to edit this and say yes GAURDS are the better raid tank ...... but nothing that is simply THAT BIG OF A DIFFERENCE !! </P> <P>Zerkin </P> <P>Message Edited by Friskcin on <SPAN class=date_text>06-12-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>01:11 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Friskcin on <span class=date_text>06-12-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:09 PM</span>

[IpseDix]

<DIV> <P><FONT size=2>... just to remind you ALL that SOE is working on "The patch"; they stated Guardians will be the LOWEST DPS (considering 2 classes with <U>the same armor, weapons, skills and abilities</U> !!) .</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2>They are reworking the whole fighter class, doing modifies based on attack abilities, defensive abilities, armor class, HPs and DPS </FONT><FONT size=2>(see Moorgard post </FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2>  <A href="http://http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=45756#M45756" target=_blank>http://http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=45756#M45756</A>  )</FONT></P> <P> </P> <P><FONT size=2>Based on what Moorg said, I've rolled a Berserker because damages are the most important thing in EQ2 (whatever you can say or think !!); the final purpose in any fight is to beat down your enemy the <U>fastest</U> you can before the enemy kills you.  </FONT><FONT size=2>In every fight, defense NEVER killed a mob; maybe you can stand 10 or 15 more seconds because of your better AC or mitigation ..... but if you have low DPS you can't kill a mob, never.    </FONT><FONT size=2>Look at wizards and warlocks; they have awful AC but they can kill a lvl 50 mob in 10 secs because they have uber DPS; on the other (mage) side there are enchanters with mezz (the best way to stop a mob !!!) but they can't even kill a grey mob because of they awful DPS.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2>I know Monks and Bruiser will be ( .. shoud be..) the highest DPS in tank classes but IMHO the lack of any "hard" armor is a big malus.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT size=2>Hard armor + good DPS = berserker !! </FONT></P></DIV>

[Lalaya]

When it comes to tanking i noticed one thing: Zerkers burn power. Fast. So think twice about spamming your specials if you aint got an illu or trouba with you. As for taking damage: Don't worry - as long as you stay inside that metal can of yours you'll be fine <span>:smileyvery-happy:</span> <div></div>

[Khal]

<DIV>" but nothing that is simply THAT BIG OF A DIFFERENCE !! "</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>No, not a huge differance, but a clearly visible one.  I have 3 guardians in my guild, one of them is the guild leader and he is totally [Removed for Content] out, clearly the best geared tank on the server.  The other 2 guardians are pretty = in gear to mine.  All of them are good players.  Compared to the guardians that are closer to me in gear, there isn't a huge differance, but its clear they will take a bit less damage.  They will usually have more hps, due to the fact that more of my gear is geared towards damage then tanking.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you have the good support classes, a Berseker will tank most of the raids very easily.  I feel confident tanking most of the raid mobs in the game if needed.  The only one I would say no for sure against is darathar.  He can one shot a fully buffed well geared guardian.  </DIV>

[Xilli]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cronoise wrote:<BR>When it comes to tanking i noticed one thing: Zerkers burn power. Fast. So think twice about spamming your specials if you aint got an illu or trouba with you.<BR>As for taking damage: Don't worry - as long as you stay inside that metal can of yours you'll be fine <SPAN>:smileyvery-happy:</SPAN><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Polished Granite Tomahawk or Screaming Mace ( nice zerker weapon, sheds aggro ).</P> <P>Burn all the power you want !!</P>

[Mie]

<DIV>Guardian and Zerker should have no different except the buff.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Guardian and Zerker using same weapon without combat art , the dps is virtually the same. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Our highest melee damage combat art doesn't affect Epic mob.  Guardian's one can. I don't see how can it be.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Guardian and Zerker in same group, they are the same.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[EnigmaticCipher]

Hint: MT, epic encounter, riposte....don't swing.

[dr4gonUK]

Put a serker and a guardian in exactly the same kit, guardian lives longer.

[BadBoyMc2]

I fail to see how you can say Zerker and Guardian have no differences. DPS would be the same if zerkers wernt buffed, but since we have so many zerker buffs we our able to out-dps guardian by miles. Our AoE attacks our far more superior to a guardians, this making our DPS much higher. Guardians can hold hate a hell of a lot better than zerkers, if a guardian loses hate, he almost instantly gets it back, spending less power. Wereas zerkers have to spam there taunts & buffs to regain hate & use half there power. How many zerkers do you see tanking an epic mob over a guardian, guardians our far superior tanking epic mobs, tanks our not suppose to hit epic mobs there suppose to hold hate & make sure it doesnt slip & hit a weaker class. Therefore guardians our the ultimate raid tank. Guardian & zerkers in the same group our no were the same, 1 is entirely defensive the other is entirely offensive. Take for example; A guardian & zerker with the same kit, same level against the same mob, The zerker would take more damage, say left on 1/4 of his health, but would have killed the mob..... A guardian on the other hand would have done 3/4 of the mobs health, and still be on 1/2 his health. There is no compariation in these 2 class, they our entire opposites with combat arts, the only thing that is the same is the weapons/armour we can use. <div></div>

[Parax]

<P>Honeslty it's all in the player. I absolutely dominate agro with my zerker, never once lost aggro to anyone and can take a beating like a true norhtman :smileywink:</P> <P> </P> <P>Really though, it's in how you play that tank (toon) for that matter. I log on, and in about 15 seconds I get spammed with 5 /tells asking me to tank for thier group. Build up a good roleplay attitude and you will be picked for tankage jobs all day. I feel it is pointless in who can tank better or who has an edge over who doing what. Fighter is a fighter (cept for brawlers <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />), go with what ya like and roleplay till you merge your toon with your real life personality.</P> <P> </P> <P>Next time at work you'll be like, hey I can take the bosses lickin from ya and keep his aggro alllll day! </P>

[Poochymama]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> BadBoyMc2k4 wrote:<BR>I fail to see how you can say Zerker and Guardian have no differences.<BR><BR>DPS would be the same if zerkers wernt buffed, but since we have so many zerker buffs we our able to out-dps guardian by miles.<BR><BR>Our AoE attacks our far more superior to a guardians, this making our DPS much higher.<BR><BR>Guardians can hold hate a hell of a lot better than zerkers, if a guardian loses hate, he almost instantly gets it back, spending less power. Wereas zerkers have to spam there taunts & buffs to regain hate & use half there power.<BR><BR>How many zerkers do you see tanking an epic mob over a guardian, guardians our far superior tanking epic mobs, tanks our not suppose to hit epic mobs there suppose to hold hate & make sure it doesnt slip & hit a weaker class. Therefore guardians our the ultimate raid tank.<BR><BR>Guardian & zerkers in the same group our no were the same, 1 is entirely defensive the other is entirely offensive.<BR><BR>Take for example; A guardian & zerker with the same kit, same level against the same mob, The zerker would take more damage, say left on 1/4 of his health, but would have killed the mob..... A guardian on the other hand would have done 3/4 of the mobs health, and still be on 1/2 his health.<BR><BR>There is no compariation in these 2 class, they our entire opposites with combat arts, the only thing that is the same is the weapons/armour we can use.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Sorry dude but your wrong about Guardians being the best aggro generation. Infact zerkers are the best in the entire game at maintaining aggro. Ive pulled aggro of Guardians 7 lvls higher than me just going berserk and using dmg skills. And no matter how hard the Guardian trys to regain aggro he simply cant do it. : ) LOUD NOISES!!!!!

[Khal]

<DIV>Ya, Berserkers are the total kings of agro generation.  All of the berserks count as buffs and generate a good deal of hate.  And with promise of violence, you can pull agro off anyone instantly post of the time.</DIV>

[Parax]

Also, when an enchanter class is with my group, I always ask them not to mez the group encounter mobs (like if there are 4+ mobs in the group). When being hit by all the mobs my Adept 1 Fury counter attacks and keeps aggro like no other, plus they lose alot of health by the fury skill and by the time we get around to the last couple mobbs their health has droped a good bit. I'd say aggro is Zerker teritory.

[Pnaxx]

This is clearly Zerkerland. Those mobs love us to DEATH. I do wonder if there is any validity to guards getting it back easier than us Zerkers once it is lost. I mean, it does happen sometimes, and it sure can take a while to get it back. There are times i must spam 4-5 or more arts to get agro back and from wut i heard guards can get it back easier possibly. Dunno, just wondering.......i wouldn't have a clue WHY that would/could be the case though, but anyone kbnow anything about that?

[Poochymama]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Pnaxx wrote:<BR>This is clearly Zerkerland. Those mobs love us to DEATH. I do wonder if there is any validity to guards getting it back easier than us Zerkers once it is lost. I mean, it does happen sometimes, and it sure can take a while to get it back. There are times i must spam 4-5 or more arts to get agro back and from wut i heard guards can get it back easier possibly. Dunno, just wondering.......i wouldn't have a clue WHY that would/could be the case though, but anyone kbnow anything about that? <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>The easiest way to gain aggro back if its ever lost is to just hit promise of violence and BAM! its back. Try that if your having trouble.

[Padi]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Pnaxx wrote:<BR>This is clearly Zerkerland. Those mobs love us to DEATH. I do wonder if there is any validity to guards getting it back easier than us Zerkers once it is lost. I mean, it does happen sometimes, and it sure can take a while to get it back. There are times i must spam 4-5 or more arts to get agro back and from wut i heard guards can get it back easier possibly. Dunno, just wondering.......i wouldn't have a clue WHY that would/could be the case though, but anyone kbnow anything about that? <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>The only reason a guardian might have an easier time getting agro back if lost is if the agro bug happens when one of a group dies.</P> <P>What seems to happen in the case of this bug is that all the agro you had towards the target is randomly given to another.  Given that Zerkers generate a ton of agro, when it goes to someone else, you have a lot more to over come to get it back.</P> <P>In my opinion, on group fights that have a chance to have the agro bug, do use taunts, or very few until after they do their bug, so you have a lot less agro to overcome.</P>

[ArivenGemini]

<span><blockquote><hr>Padien wrote: <blockquote> <hr> Pnaxx wrote:This is clearly Zerkerland. Those mobs love us to DEATH. I do wonder if there is any validity to guards getting it back easier than us Zerkers once it is lost. I mean, it does happen sometimes, and it sure can take a while to get it back. There are times i must spam 4-5 or more arts to get agro back and from wut i heard guards can get it back easier possibly. Dunno, just wondering.......i wouldn't have a clue WHY that would/could be the case though, but anyone kbnow anything about that? <div></div> <hr> </blockquote> <p>The only reason a guardian might have an easier time getting agro back if lost is if the agro bug happens when one of a group dies.</p> <p>What seems to happen in the case of this bug is that all the agro you had towards the target is randomly given to another.  Given that Zerkers generate a ton of agro, when it goes to someone else, you have a lot more to over come to get it back.</p> <p>In my opinion, on group fights that have a chance to have the agro bug, do use taunts, or very few until after they do their bug, so you have a lot less agro to overcome.</p> <div></div><hr></blockquote> I have had very good success with getting damage and solotaunts in on each mob helping to circumvent the agro loss.. seems to work about 85%+ of the time for me.. </span><div></div>

[Ru]

The differance is in the buffs. Think of all the buff you have that boost attack, and assume that those boost def for guardians. And, as far as hate... I feel sorry for Guardians. The three ways to generate hate are by casting a buff, taunting, or damage. We get equal buffs and taunts, and dominate Guardians in DPS. Is it any surprise we hold aggro so well? We might be a <u>little</u> softer than a Paladin or Guardian, only because of buffs, but, the best tank is the one that keeps the mobs off others. <div></div>

[Zerofault]

<DIV>Berserkers DPS is not that far ahead of a guardian</DIV> <DIV>Berserkers tank best on high end raid encounters when a Guardian is in the same group as a support class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>These are my parsed and proven opinions..</DIV>

[dr4gonUK]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zerofault wrote:<BR> <DIV>Berserkers DPS is not that far ahead of a guardian</DIV> <DIV>Berserkers tank best on high end raid encounters when a Guardian is in the same group as a support class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>These are my parsed and proven opinions..</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I agree with this. Seen it, lived it, breathed it. Berserker belongs at point, guardian is his best m8. Considering the dev team were probably watching "  He-Man™and the Masters of the Universe™" when they were growing up its clearly natural to see He-man™ as the serker and Man-at-Arms™ as the guardian.:smileyvery-happy: Both in the same group that, serker knows if a guardian has his back its always gonna end in victory. Maybe guard feels same way in group with serker, i dunno lets ask one?

[Dherf]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> dr4gonUK wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zerofault wrote:<BR> <DIV>Berserkers DPS is not that far ahead of a guardian</DIV> <DIV>Berserkers tank best on high end raid encounters when a Guardian is in the same group as a support class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>These are my parsed and proven opinions..</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I agree with this. Seen it, lived it, breathed it. Berserker belongs at point, guardian is his best m8. Considering the dev team were probably watching "  He-Man™and the Masters of the Universe™" when they were growing up its clearly natural to see He-man™ as the serker and Man-at-Arms™ as the guardian.:smileyvery-happy: Both in the same group that, serker knows if a guardian has his back its always gonna end in victory. Maybe guard feels same way in group with serker, i dunno lets ask one? <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I'm totally agree!   Zerks are n.1 tank with guardian in the same group tha watching our back. 

[Jakka]

<P>I always laugh when I read these posts....</P> <P>Does it really even matter who is the better tank?  I'm a 50 zerker and I MT every raid with success.</P> <P>Could the raid succeed with a guardian MT? sure.</P> <P>But at the end of the raid, when you're dividing the loot... who gives a flying F#$k who the MT was.... </P>