So there I was

[Ethelwo]

<DIV>Hanging out in Permafrost with an equal level Paladin in the group.  Well the subject of who will be MA came up and I said I'll be MA if you would like. Well the Pally piped in and made a satement that Berserkers are lousy tanks and that if he didn't do it, we would be wiped. I said go right ahead, but dont [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] when the mob quits paying attention to you and trys to kill me instead. Well I took off my SBS and axe, and loaded up the ole yak and dirk for some duel wielding as Mr. can't tank, woosy dps, kind of class. I really didn't care if he were the tank because I wasn't going to let him keep the job. We go out and he bombs a mob and gets 4 instead. You know pally couldn't pull a door knob right if his life depended on it. I started hacking on his con because he was MA and didn't have much trouble turning it around to the old stand up and salute your zerker postition. Well that mob died and it was on to the next, The Pally was throwing taunts out as fast as he could. and I was just spamming attacks and not taunting at all. Puff the second mob turned to pay homage to the zerker and then plopped over dead, this happened to the rest of the mobs too. When the task was done, The pally was really angry. I said well what do you want me to do sit there and just auto attack?  Anyways we don't group together any more even though he is a guildy. I don't like playing with idiots and his ego isn't propperly tuned. He still insists Pallies are the only real tanks in the game and the rest of us heavy metal types may as well craft for a living.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I read all the pally complaints in these forums, all the time. They just can't stand the fact that Guardians out tank them and us Berserkers they don't even take into account. You never read a Pally post complaining about Berserkers. They always compair themselves to Guardians. Thats cool, because while that war rages on, we just watch and wonder why anyone would ever play a pally or a guardian.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Berserkers are the best kept secret in the game. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Go ahead make my day. I don't use any armor that procs, why?  I am a Proc. Watch me go off and see who the real lord of the tanks is.</DIV>

[Adrenachro]

<DIV>Hear, hear, mate.  Couldn't have said it better myself.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In all honesty though, yes Berserkers are the most efficient in holding aggro (I'm defining efficient as using the lowest amount of power to keep aggro), but it's not that difficult for a Crusader to hold it away from others.  An extra AOE taunt half way through the fight, and a buff or two, and aggro is theirs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I really feel that SK's and Paladins aren't <EM>less equipped</EM> tanks, it's just that they are played more often by less <EM>aware</EM> people.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Having said that, I can't believe how much fun it is to play a Berserker.  Ever since I picked it those months ago, I have loved every second of it.  And I'm only level 40, I feel the best is yet to come!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Tukaran</DIV> <DIV>Lucan D'Lere</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><EM>All your aggro are belong to me.</EM></DIV>

[RafaelSmith]

LOL I know somehow I should be offended by this post but im not.  Made me laugh...Good post <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> fyi Even I as a Guardian with [Removed for Content] aggro can pull aggro off a Pally w/o even trying...It really is pretty sad.  They may very well be great at taking dmg but whats the point if the mobs dont hit them.  I do know that when I group with Zerkers of equal level..unless they beg me to MT I buff them and just let them have the job.  Aggro > all for tanks. =P Again, good post...made my day <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[CherobylJ]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ethelwolf wrote:<BR> <DIV>Hanging out in Permafrost with an equal level Paladin in the group.  Well the subject of who will be MA came up and I said I'll be MA if you would like. Well the Pally piped in and made a satement that Berserkers are lousy tanks and that if he didn't do it, we would be wiped. <BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Alotta EQ1 players believe this because in that game Bers were terrible tanks.  What they fail to realize is that we are cut from the same cloth as Guards in this game.  A Paladin calling you out on agro is a crazy thing to do.  I was eating popcorn last night at the keyboard and being pretty lazy let the guild pallie in group tank (hot sauce on popcorn and mouses just dont mix).  Well I really love using anarchy so I'd let her pull, let her AE, let her engage, wait a full 5 secs and the start attack and anarchy.  Yup like a [Removed for Content] magnet...so then I tried just dual wield...yup liek a magnet...then sword/board and taht with few combat arts seemed to be about right (later the 50 inquis used his overdrive haste on her and we were on a more even footing).</P> <P>You really need to have an intervention with taht fella if he is your guild.  Getting angry in an exp group is just so uncool.<BR></P>

[Rothg]

I actually play quite frequently with a pally guildy as main tank, and I actually don't have too many problems. He is a lvl higher than me, and i'd say he's a pretty good player though, always keeps his skills and equipment up to date. Having said that, if I go really nuts, and start throwing taunts in, does mean I can pull the aggro if his health drops, so it actually makes quite a good duo. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Just wanted to point out that not all Pallys are evil spoilt little kids, and can be nice ppl sometimes. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Renzai]

<DIV>Not a huge fan of grouping with pallies that insist on tanking. Not only do they have a hard time keeping aggro, but in order for them to keep aggro at all you need to significantly cut down on dps. Forget using Anarchy. Seems every time I need to pace my special attacks as opposed to guardians where I can go all out. They do however seem to take less dmg than us if both zerker and pally are on par lvl/gear-wise.</DIV>

[Cassp0]

If you agreed to let him tank, I can't see why you then took so much joy in pulling aggro off him. Why the attitude? Theres no reason he shouldn't be the main tank, although for most grind mobs, it doesn't make much odds which warrior subtype tanks it seems.

[Khal]

Unless a guardian is in the grp, the zerker should tank, cause hes gonna get agro anyway and if he doesn't its becauses hes holding back and doing crap DPS as a result. <p>Message Edited by Khalad on <span class=date_text>05-06-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:05 AM</span>

[Mode]

<DIV>Actually Pallys get a agro stealing buff that they can cast on one member of the group that transfers 50% of the hate generated by that player to them. If a pally would just put this on the zerk in the group he would never loose agro, unless he is a complete newb. I play A Warlock main but have a 42 zerk alt and love him. Grouped with a good pally that knows how to play with a zerk I can maximize my dps without fear of taking agro and with their ability to self heal coupled with this steal aggro buff they honestly make a better choice for a group (non raid)tank imo. This comes from playing my 50 Warlock and seeing the difference of how well a pally with this hate stealing buff on me holds agro.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Drops a few copper....</DIV>

[Khal]

Group with alot of good pallys, some of them slightly better equiped then I, they don't take agro from me. 

[Xilli]

<P>Well said.</P> <P> </P> <P>At lvl 34 Ogre Zerker, I dual wield a pair of pris imbued oak quarter staves I made and outright dominate the tank field.  I focused my Adept 3s entirely on defensive spells, for Hp and dammage redux, because the Zerker is already a whirlwind of destruction.  One thing we must be aware of is IF we chose to actually play such that we peel mobs off, ie use the combat arts and a weapon that isnt grey, that we must be constantly tweaking up our AC and defensive mitigations.  Not all healers are created equal!  </P> <P>Forget the Paladin folks, they arent MT, their defensive and offensive contributions DO make them the perfect #2 in my opinion.  The Shadowknight FAR out classes the Pally for making and keeping aggro.  In fact, I have only had a problem taking aggro from Shadowknights and prefer grouping with them for MT tag team strategy!  I'll explain.   While I can more than hold my own, the SK has the ability to FD me and take over without skipping a beat should the healing power get low.  Very VERY handy.  The Paladin can heal and buff, but not wipe my aggro, which is what is needed should the healer get pinched.  Once aggro is wiped I can switch to DPS ( tuned down ) while wounded and aid the SK with the remaining mobs.  The couple times I was able to coordinate this with another SK player it worked perfectly.</P> <P>Monks and Bruisers are good to group with, but I would take < insert scout here > over them in a group any day.</P> <P>Zerker SK Coercer Inquisitor Ranger and  Assassin.   </P> <P>3 evacs.  devastating DPS.  Excellent power and mob management.  Superior healing and DEBUFFING.</P> <P> </P> <P>no paladin.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[CyonideWolfp]

<DIV> <DIV>Actually Pallys get a agro stealing buff that they can cast on one member of the group that transfers 50% of the hate generated by that player to them. If a pally would just put this on the zerk in the group he would never loose agro, unless he is a complete newb. I play A Warlock main but have a 42 zerk alt and love him. Grouped with a good pally that knows how to play with a zerk I can maximize my dps without fear of taking agro and with their ability to self heal coupled with this steal aggro buff they honestly make a better choice for a group (non raid)tank imo. This comes from playing my 50 Warlock and seeing the difference of how well a pally with this hate stealing buff on me holds agro.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Drops a few copper....</DIV> <P></P> <DIV>Modean<BR>Guild Leader of Taipan Clan</DIV></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You sir are correct.  I have an uber Pally in my group, well played and better gear than I, both are 50, but even so, if he didn't use this spell, which is called Redemption, he would have to drain a lot more power to keep aggro off me.  We group together every day, so we have our own system of managing aggro, plus I'm a couple Ebon clusters away from matching his gear, so won't really matter who MT's at that point, but just the same, if a Pally has that spell up they can hold aggro just fine and you can plow through.  The reason a lot don't use it is because it's a low level spell they forget about.  Just kindly remind them =)</DIV> <DIV><BR>Cyonide Wolfpaw - 50 Zerker - Befallen</DIV>

[Troodon]

For the record Redeption "only" transfers 35% Hate at Adept III, requires 2 concentration slots and can only be cast upon one person. That said, as a Pally Id have a hard time tanking without it, though even with Redemption and a constrant stream of taunts and buffs Pally hate management is a real headache. Enough that though I often tank for guild groups, its not something I enjoy at all. We do have another hate syphon, the Divine Inspiration line that transfer 5% of everyones Hate to the caster when cast (10% with the level 40 training option). Its the buff you'll hopefully see a tanking Pally use a lot where they raise their sword and everyone in the group flashes a blue aura. Im not sure why Berserker's tend not to feature in Pally discussions, beyond the inevitable anecdotes about how hard it is to keep aggro off you guys. I guess that most see Guardian's as our closest analogues. But there's more to tanking than just taking damage and all the Beserkers Ive played with do a very good job at aggro management, and really shine when handling multiple encounters. <div></div>

[Rousso]

<P>Personally I love grouping with pally's who want to tank. Two of my favorite EQ2 experiences came in groups with pally tanks. The first was with a pally who actually knew what he was doing and was 2 levels above me. We were fighting tough groups of heroic mobs - yellow and orange. I'd let him pull in the mobs, set aggro well and soak the first round of high damage attacks. Then I'd pop off bloodrage and start to work with the damage skills. It was nice to have another tank taking the opening blows as I took the 20% health loss from bloodrage. After a minute or so the mobs would break aggro and turn on me - even though I never used a single taunt. We both kept at it going all out on damage with him taunting away and man those mobs went down quick. The others in the group tried to keep up - amazed that we were not only surviving but dominating the battlefield.</P> <P>The second was more recent when I was tanking in CT and the GL (usually me but this time I joined a group for quick xp) says that we need a real tank and invites in a pally 2 levels above me. I toned down my dps & damage skills and focused on buffing and assisting...untill the GL broke out the damage parser, which put me 4th in a group of 6 and listed my DPS below the pally. She made some comment about how 'zerkers can't tank OR DPS. Next battle I went all out, took aggro right off the bat (again without taunting) dropped the mobs in a fraction of the time. She parsed the damage again and this time my DPS was more than twice that of the nearest competitor - a wizzie - and so far over the pally that it looked like he never got his sword out of his sheath. She and the pally both split the group soon thereafter and I made the comment "well it'll be nice not to have to tone down DPS to let a pally tank." I got LMAOs all round and we went on to rampage through CT.</P>

[Davish_Darkwolf]

<P>Lord of Tanks or not..........   this sure was a hell of a read...  i laughed my [Removed for Content] off   <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P> </P> <P>Funny in my guild we usually use a Berserker as the raid tank,  we never wished there was a Guardian there and i hope i can jump as MT backup soon, almost there.........</P> <P> </P> <P>Zerkers hold their own alright and unfortunately there are still people out there that dont know our qualities.</P>

[Thuyk]

Nice story.  :smileyhappy:  I've rarely grouped with Paladins, but the last time I did, I had a similar experience.  He was two levels higher than me, and insisted on being the main tank, which was perfectly fine with me.  Anyways, we were in our late 30s, and taking on the Ancient Watcher in the Condemned Catacombs.  During the fight, he would continually start his solo heroic opportunities, but would never taunt to finish them off!  Finally, I used Taunt (yes, the level THREE newbie taunt) to finish one off, and promptly ripped aggro away from him.  For the next five minutes, I had to listen to him gripe and complain about how stupid that was, until I reassured him that I wouldn't use my level 3 Taunt (making sure to drive home the point that I took aggro with a newbie skill) anymore.  :smileyhappy:

[Pernicious Pira]

 Its easy to concur with everyone. Without taunting or trying I steal aggro right and left from anyone else who says tthere gonna be Tank. I got to point if its someone new and they insist on Tanking, then I say fine with me. I will wait 7 good seconds to let them establish there Aggro and then tone down my attacks. Reguardless I still steal it.  BUt to add a new twist t o things told. Some really know we are kings of Aggro. Yet they go out of way to be supreme (Insert your favorite lame name here)...  To explain... For three or 4 major Raids I been in groups of 24. And With 2 or 3 GUardiands as main tank and back up or off tank and me not using a taunt or anything stole aggro. And had to hear Raid leaders put out order. Do not waste your power to taunt off the zerker, healers don't heal. let the mob kill him then continue on as planned. I"m dead serious here. Fully knowing we generate so much hate we can take aggro they choose out of spite or jelousy to take our strong suit and turn it into a stigma. Yes a lousy show of team work to say the least but i experianced it several times.  Once on the Giant King (I forget his name) were they wanted all of us in hall when there uber cool Guardian tank did the pulling. He pulled in main room wile we were almost at door we were so far back. I did anarchy and giant almost fell over everyone to climb on top of me. for 45 seconds guardiand all taunting and mob was on me like stink on a road apple. Group leader got so mad he asked me to lead it into main room and then ordered healers not to heal me... cause that was only way he could get to mob to pay attention to the Tank he wanted tanking. I could tell a few stories but that one will surfice.

[-Mor]

<P>My 2c worth</P> <P>I'm 50 and a zerker, I have top end gear and I have played MT for a number of low level raids, MG and Magmolius etc, no biggie there, they dont hit very hard, I normally play MA, and yes, I have had to learn to tone down my damage, not use all my buffs, because those puppies generate aggro like nothing else. </P> <P>It's not about who can gain more aggro, because the main healers will rightfully let you die to ensure the MT stays alive, in turn keeping the MT group alive.</P> <P>The facts are - Pallies have better surviveabilty, and don't think that assassins and the like dont tone down their damage so as to keep aggro in check, because they wear paper armour and die real fast, we wear plate and die slow, but we suck a lot more manna from the healers..</P> <P>Find a good Pally with high end gear and you'll be surprised, work with them and you'll find a lot less downtime, enter into a peeing contest and yes, you'll win, but any assassin can put your fire out with out even trying.</P> <P>imho it's not about who is a better aggro magnet, it's about playing your toon to suit the group dynamics, zerkers make the best MA's bar nothing, you need a mob off a healer ? a single promise of violence is usually enough to get aggro, the MT is getting beat down too fast and you need to peel one of the mobs off to balance out the damage / healing ? no worries, peel it and buy some time..</P> <P>I can steal aggro off anyone if i want to, but that dosent keep a raid going, it also dosent do a lot for your reputation either, you get known as a liabilty..</P> <P>Please dont take this post as negative, it's not meant to be, in reality Guardians should be the king of aggro, but there not, Wizzies should be the king's of DPS, but there not, and berzerkers should be wearing medium armour, but we dont.</P> <P>That said, I wouldn't play any other class than a Zerker, it's just important to ensure that you get the group dynamics right, if the Pally wants to MT, let him have the job, if he dies, were there to fill his shoes till he gets back,  we are without a doubt the most versatile tanking class in game, were not the best at anything, but we are very very good at a lot of things..</P> <P>Strewth</P> <P>50 Zerker of Allure - Najena</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Bok]

<P>well, it sure helps to have a tank know that they need to taunt all mobs, and taunt well, if the players dont pay attantion to the agro game, they wont be good as tanks, and just wont make the group have full use of all its players.. guardians can still maintank, by buffing all their [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] on the serker, while he just swings away.. </P> <P>ps, fellow serkers, dunno if you ever parsed on a regular basis .. in my guild we had a contest over the longest time to see who could come near me in dps.. sure, now that a brigand in the guild reached lvl 40-ish he is about at the same dps in a fight, but over the whole evening, nobody can come close to what i poop out.. </P> <P>one fight on a boatride to EL i did twice as much dps as a fellowberserker 2 levels lower, but he did again twice as much dps as the rest of the group .. even an assasin my lvl at the time, think 32 or something.. to make it short.. the other serker was parsin, and he told me, dude, you do know yar doing as much dmg as the rest of the group right? i wasnt parsing at the time, as i know that its easy in big fights to do as much dmg alone, as the rest of the (full) group does togheter.. yes, i went over a 100dps a few times easy... serkers dps? best kept secret, ya bet ya, if ya use it all, use it good, nothing can stand before us, let us maintank, just get the guardians to put their buffs on us, get some hits on them, so we serkers can do what we need, and thats to kill !!</P> <P>maintank is mainagro, taking the blows in this game can be spread so easy, use it, let the healers know, each their own guardian to keep an eye on, while the berserker keeps them all safe, by beeing knee deep in gore and blood !!</P> <P>/rawr</P>