What are your tactics for off tanking?

[xXGrandia]

<DIV>What are your tactics for when you off-tank?  I myself off-tank 100% of the time when I party with my Paladin brother.  I use the Mess Sergeant's Cleaver and I made my Berserker to do damage only, giving him STR and AGI, getting adept 1s and 3s.  My brother and I duo, and I am lvl 47 and he is lvl 48 now.  I can pull aggro off him in a quick flash if I don't watch myself.  He taunts whenever he gets the chance, I start the HO's (sky cleave and crushing anvil) and he finishes them.  Sometimes, he'll put Redemption on me (transfers a good percentage of hate from me to him) but I can still pull aggro if I don't watch myself.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It seems to me that since I am also a Fighter, I have a built-in aggro system that gives me a good lot of hate?  Reason why Scouts do not get aggro when they do a 500-1k hit skill and still not pull aggro is because they have a built-in system that does not build as much aggro as Fighters?  Or it could just be because of Berserk, since it is a buff, and buffs generate a lot of aggro as well.  I am not 100% sure.</DIV>

[-Aonein-]

<P>Its Berserk causing the agro, cause your are hasting yourself and generating constant agro through raw DPS done by auto attack, plus our specials have stuns tied in with them and knock downs, which also generate agro, but here is a test, next time you start a fight, let your brother do his thing, and dont use any specials, just use ones like Raging Strike, Mutiliate and No Quarter to get yourself into a Berserk state, then see how long it takes to get agro. Once you start using high damage arts like Vanquish and Frenzy, plus you will also be debuffing with Relentless Battering and Raging Blows which will generate alot of agro on there own. </P> <P>Another thing is do you use Anarchy alot? Cause Anarchy is a excellent sorce of agro from a MT point of view. Its a great buff, but very hard to manage it in a offtank postion due to being self hasted, high damage arts and debuffs. Its hard to for a Berserker to play a offtank role and not take agro.</P> <P>There is one thing you can be sure off though, if you take agro, you know your doing things right, cause if you werent, id be worried :smileywink:.</P> <P>When i play a offtank, i usally use Vehemence on the tank, yes i know its bugged, but i still get myself in the habit for when it gets fixed, and i usally use Vanquish and Frenzy when mob is half life and i rely on Berserk and self haste to do the work for me, cause if you go all out from the moment you start, you will most defiently take agro by 75%, so lay off till around then, then start to lay out the DPS. Always have Mutilate, No Quarter and Raging Strike if you dont mind the small decrease in DPS which is hardly even noticeable for more chances at Berserk. With a set of pristine conditioned cedar fighting batons i can do around 140 DPS np in a offtank postion.</P> <P>Taemek Frozenberg 47th Berserker<BR>16th Outfitter<BR>Everfrost Server<BR><BR>Enlightened Aonein Amillion ( retired )<BR>70th Stone Fist of The Celestial Fist<BR>Five Rings on Luclin Server</P> <P> </P>

[CherobylJ]

<P>As Aon said if you use Anarchy/any group buffs during fight or pull you are goin to cause trouble.  Also avoid promise of violence etc all arts with hate built in.  I use a big 2 hander when off tank, generally start slow and try to avoid arts that will trigger berserk right off the bat.  Usually wind in the DOTs when mob at 80pct or so and then start big spells at 50 Vanquish/Frenzy etc all.</P> <P>Really its just a question of getting used to watching how your main tank operates and getting into the dance.  Usually right after an anger genertaing spell (mob will go red outline) you can slip in a high damage art w/o ganking it.   </P>

[xXGrandia]

<DIV>I almost do exactly what you said, but I do not use Promise of Violence or any other skill that gives aggro.  I sometimes use Anarchy, depending on the situation, and when I do use it, it is normally at the end of the fight or in the middle when the mob's health is yellow/orange.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think I found something that might help a bit.  With all the Berserker's buffs and such, he swings so fast, it's somewhat ridiculous, swinging for 100-200+ with basically almost a 1.5-2 sec. delay?  So what I'm going to do is use Controlled Rage, decreases my attack speed by 20%, but with a App4, it gives me 12 Defense.  I'm thinking that will lower my attack speed a bit, helping me maintain aggro without pulling it off the MT.  If things do get nasty, and I get aggro, I'll have 12 defense on me to where it will help atleast a little bit.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thank you for your suggestions! I appreciate it!</DIV>

[Sabin the Gre]

<DIV>Here's so food for thought when you are duoing.  Assuming that you two are duoing green-white heroic mobs try this.   Rather than having him start, you start.  Prior to combat buff yourself with anarchy and bloodrage.  If able run in and use Stunning Roar (if you need to spot pull use arrow, then stunning roar when the mob is close enough).  Have him fire off a taunt when you do this.  Then unload your heavy stuff (Frenzy, Vanquish, Maul, Wallop)up front and have your brother save his heavies/taunts.  After that have him peal the mob off of you.  Since your damage spells are adept 1-3 you should be able to unload plenty of damage upfront to kill any no ^ or single ^ mob with plenty of time for him to peal the mobs off you before you get in any real danger.  If it's a 2^ mob, after you unload heavy, he should be unload and taunt also to peal the mob if he saves his taunts/heavy attacks till after yours.  This way you can do what you do best (damage) without doing what neither of you want (get one or both of you killed).  Hope this helps some.  Good luck and update how it works for you.</DIV> <DIV>Sabin</DIV>

[Padi]

<P>I'm a zerker who MT's a lot within our guild and a guild alliance we have setup and I find myself losing agro to others often.  Every time I lose agro, I go back and look at my parser logs, or start the parser to see what skills the other guy is using.  Every single time I've found the person using a skill that has a taunt built in and didn't now it was a taunt (such as promise of violence).  90% of the time I ask if they are using taunts, their response is, I'm just doing insane damage.  90% of the time I was doing up to doubling their DPS and still losing agro, but saw they were using some taunts.</P> <P>It's important to know your skills.</P> <P>I do have a problem with one guardian in our alliance though.  If I off tank, I end up doing 2-4 times his damage and he just can't seem to taunt enough to get it off me, but I usually take less damage than him anyways, so I just end up being tank anyways.</P>

[xXGrandia]

<DIV>I agree Padien, it is important to know your skills.  Before the patch that showed descriptions on skills and items, I was using Promise of Violence, it absolutely says nothing about increasing hate.  As soon as that patch came out that showed the descriptions on skills and items, I felt really embarrased that I was using basically a taunt while I was off-tanking.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think SoE needs to make it when you examine skills, it should show how much aggro it gives or SoE needs to really SHOW what skills really DO.  You can be using a skill that says nothing about increasing hate, and you won't even know about it until you died about 15 times in a row.</DIV>