They are finally nerfing the guardians defense

[MrCAP]

I read on the guardian boards and the very first message says there is a patch coming in aprox 2 weeks that will nerf the guardians defense. This good news for us zerkers=)

[Styk]

That is an assine statement lol.... if you wanted to start another thread war you picked a poor one because if you read the ACTUAL thread... the fear is ALL FIGTHER DEFENSE IS GETTING NERFED NOT JUST GUARDIANS.... Oh and stop trying to start another flame war , its stupid and pointless Strykr Destructicus 49 Berserker <div></div>

[Cabbott]

<DIV>I'm sure with the incestuous spell/ability code that SoE uses this change will hurt us as well, and Monkeys and Pallys too for that matter.   For example, when the expansion pacl came out and the mobs were chain stifling players, they changed stifle which impacted the Inquisitor since the spell/ability code is the same for mobs and classes, so with this ultra-ridiculous logic in place, I have no doubt that since we're the sub-classes of a warrior, any changes to one, means an equal or side effect change to the rest of the group.</DIV>

[Vermillio]

i dunno why a person would be happy when another class gets nerf =/ you sound like you are comparing the tanking ability between zerker and guardian, and feel being treated unfairly because guardians are better tank.... guardians are always better tank than us (zerkers), hands down, is how their class intended to be <div></div>

[kr8ztwin]

heh since when do zerkers not need or use def? lol. 

[Styk]

Well i dunno about "guardians are better tanks hands down " they may be able to take dmg better then us ( partiallly because most of their defense buffs work while ours don't ) But agro wise? I have never been out agroed but a Guardian or lost agro to one.... So agro wise Berserker > Guardian.... But anyways i dont want anymore [Removed for Content] nerfage anymore..... It is pointless and and just plain stupid to do so now.... FIX ALL OF OUR COMBAT ARTS, SPELLS AND SKILLS ( i mean every classes ) then adjust not nerf first and oh get around to it and fix later <div></div>

[ArivenGemini]

<span><blockquote><hr>Vermillionn wrote:i dunno why a person would be happy when another class gets nerf =/ you sound like you are comparing the tanking ability between zerker and guardian, and feel being treated unfairly because guardians are better tank.... guardians are always better tank than us (zerkers), hands down, is how their class intended to be <div></div><hr></blockquote>Not really, they are just intended to be a different style tank..  all sub classes are intended to be tanks.. with each one maybe being better under certain circumstances.. but in general all able to do the same job to the same efficiency and capability.. That said, the defense changes while it may be needed doesn't fill me with excitement that they are going to balance it right.. but if they modifiy it so that it adds to defense (i.e. parry, block, mitigation) as opposed to avoidance I think it will probably not be too bad... But if it affects guardians the most, we will be right behind them in the queue of effect since we are the same warrior line.. </span><div></div>

[CherobylJ]

<P>Read the Guard board thread they are either going to tune defensive skills (which hurts us), tune avoidance for plate tanks (bad for us) or just tune Guard spells (unlikely).</P> <P>Be careful what you celebrate...odds are we will be part of any such balancing</P>

[RafaelSmith]

Anyone that thinks what SOE is gonna do in terms of avoidance/mitigation is specific to guardians is a fool.  This issue effects EVERYONE... Warriors the most. The truth is the only reason any of us can tank at all and that healers can keep us up is due to avoidance/defense...has little to do with mitigation. The way mobs do dmg, the way heals work and the amount of HP we have in comparison to all that will not stand up to the amount of dmg will we take if all the sudden we are avoiding alot less. And trust me ALL fighters will see another DPS reduction before its all said and done <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[Tagright]

Mr.Crap:  Please delete your toon and stay off these boards.  You are an embarassment to the class and the player population.  To any guardians (other other rational people) trolling these boards, I appologize for this nitwit. <div></div>

[tas]

<DIV>You sound like a cry baby monk. MrCap delete your berseker plz. We do not need peeps like you in the zerker class getting other classes nerf. For that, we have all of the monks that want to be super tanks to do that. They do not need your help.  Put your efforts in to getting SOE to make our abilities to work right  not in to getting another class nerf. Be proud of your class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sumloard 36 Zerker</DIV>

[FamilyManFir]

First off, that two weeks number was pulled out of thin air. The devs are still <i>talking</i> about what to do regarding Avoidance vs. Mitigation.Secondly, as others have said, almost anything done to muck around with Defense will be felt by Berserkers just as much as by Guardians. The only way it wouldn't is if all the devs did was to tweak Guardians' Combat Arts. That may be all they'll do but <i>nobody knows yet</i>.Rafael, don't forget that the devs are <i>considering</i> changing the way mobs hit as well as changing how defenses work. One option that Moorgard mentioned was changing mobs to hit lighter but more often, but that's just one <i>possibility</i>.My bets are, if anything is done (and I think something will, but I don't know what) it'll come in LU#7. They're already planning some balancing of Priests' heals and DPS, an increase in Enchanters' DPS, and the resultantly necessary review of aggro and taunts, so a rework of defense and damage with its own simultaneous necessary review of aggro would be logical. Still, who knows? It might take even longer, or the devs may choose to try and tweak Guardian buffs first to see if that alone will fix the problem.Moreover, as others have said, celebrating another class's nerf is, at best, rude.<p>Message Edited by FamilyManFirst on <span class=date_text>04-04-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:42 PM</span>

[Soulcr]

We are going to need a preist to come raise this dead horse.   These boards have become a horse beating ground.  If you read any fighter board post you will see this written 100 times: All tanks are meant to tank. Just different ways. All casters are meant to cast but in different ways too, but you don't see wizzards complaining about not being able to mezz? or clerics complaining about not gettin wards.  We are fighters, we are different, embrace it for gods sake! Confederate  22 Beserker <div></div>

[MrCAP]

<DIV>First off, i am not deleting my guy because berserkers are the best and i love to play him. I started this thread just to spark a little controversy. BTW i am a better tank then any of you will ever be</DIV>

[Happyfunba]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MrCAP wrote:<BR> <DIV>First off, i am not deleting my guy because berserkers are the best and i love to play him. I started this thread just to spark a little controversy. BTW i am a better tank then any of you will ever be</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>It was funny, but I didn't laugh.<BR><BR>I guess it wasn't "funny ha-ha".</DIV>

[Davish_Darkwolf]

<P>That's the same kind of remark Guardians posted in their forums when Berzerkers got their ubber Bloodlust nerf.</P> <P>Guess what?..... we are still here and enjoying our classes..... and so will Guardians..... cause both are one hell of a good-war-machines</P> <P> </P>

[-Aonein-]

<P>The thing is guys which so many people are failing to see is, there fixing the ability to <STRONG><U>stack</U></STRONG> buffs that was making ANYONE, not just Guardians get 100% avoidance. While this makes it look like its nerfing Guardians, its not, it only looks like its nerfing Guardians because there usally MT for raids for which the problem lies and certain group formats. Not every group can buff there avoidance to 100%, and thats what the whole problem is, with a Bard in your group, you can almost be 100% certain that you would get close to 100% avoidance, on a raid, it is 100% certain you could get 100% avoidance. This isnt what SoE want, and i know for sure i dont want 100% avoidance cause that pretty much makes Templars / Inquisitors reactive heals useless on us when thats what Plate class's are suppose to rely on more then a Brawler which is reactive healing, where a Brawler is more towards Wards and HoT's ( Heals over Time, like a Warden for example ) because of their high avoidance.</P> <P>So please lets not start no more panic threads, SoE never wanted Plate class's to avoid like a Bralwer, thats common sense, SoE never wanted any class to avoid like a Braweler, thats also common sense. There going to fix Buff stacking and seeing we as plate class's will be hit more often, lets hope they ethier decrease mobs damage output OR increase our mitigation.</P> <P>Taemek Frozenberg 46th Berserker<BR>16th Outfitter<BR>Everfrost Server<BR><BR>Enlightened Aonein Amillion ( retired )<BR>70th Stone Fist of The Celestial Fist<BR>Five Rings on Luclin Server</P> <p>Message Edited by -Aonein- on <span class=date_text>04-01-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:15 PM</span>

[Zerofault]

<DIV>Hmm, that was a pretty stupid post, especially when Berserkers tank every bit as good as a Guardian.. Don't believe me?  I just tanked Darathar.  We killed him with 3 groups, not a single death, on our first try...  I'll make a seperate thread on this, but i'm pumped and seen this post ....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Lodoz - Nektulos - Archons</DIV>

[Tagright]

<div></div>Mr.Crap:  I did not suggest that you delete your character because berserkers are not great.  I made my suggestion because your post(s) reveal that you are too stupid to play a video game.  I am concerned that you may injure yourself in a keyboard accident.  As far as your ability to spark controversy goes:  what you did was about as effective as claiming that the world is flat in your sixth grade science class.  It's the equivalent of a fart in a windstorm.  Now go away and bother us no more you little wanna-be troll. <div></div><p>Message Edited by Tagright on <span class=date_text>04-01-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:28 AM</span>

[MrCAP]

LOL what a [Removed for Content]

[RafaelSmith]

<span><blockquote><hr>MrCAP wrote:LOL what a [Removed for Content]<hr></blockquote> You must be looking in the mirror?</span><div></div>

[Tarindel]

<span><blockquote><hr>Tagright wrote:<div></div>Mr.Crap: <hr></blockquote>I had the same thought.</span><div></div>

[-Aonein-]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> FamilyManFirst wrote:<BR><BR>Secondly, as others have said, almost anything done to muck around with Defense will be felt by Berserkers just as much as by Guardians. The only way it wouldn't is if all the devs did was to tweak Guardians' Combat Arts. That may be all they'll do but <EM>nobody knows yet<BR><BR></EM> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>No this wont effect Berserkers as much as Guardians because we rely more on Parry skills more then we do Defense skills, we have more Parry buffs then a Guardian does<EM>.</EM></P> <P>Once again ill reapeat myself, this is about Buff Stacking, thats where the entire problem lies, which isnt just going to effect Guardians, its going to effect <STRONG><U>everyone</U></STRONG>. The entire " Guardians are the best tank in the game " BS argument is because people who exploit the buff stacking bug, have lead people to believe that they are the best tank in the game because they purposely build groups around a Guardian to put the expoilt to its full use, making all the other people who dont fit in a Guardian formation group to believe that the game is unbalanced and Guardians are overpowered, which is acually caused by buff stacking.</P> <P>Taemek Frozenberg 46th Berserker<BR>16th Outfitter<BR>Everfrost Server<BR><BR>Enlightened Aonein Amillion ( retired )<BR>70th Stone Fist of The Celestial Fist<BR>Five Rings on Luclin Server<BR></P> <p>Message Edited by -Aonein- on <span class=date_text>04-03-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:27 AM</span>

[RaM]

<div></div>what are the buffs that stack and make a 100% avoidance? <div></div><p>Message Edited by RaMaR on <span class=date_text>04-02-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:03 PM</span>

[-Aonein-]

<P> </P> <DIV> <DIV> <P>Not Guardians thats for sure, like ive pointed out in other posts, a Guardian can self buff his avoid to a small amount more then a Berserker. Berserkers can get around the 65% mark, Guardians can get a little over that selff buffed towards 70%, Guards self buff add no more then 0.6% - 0.8% each buff, add a Bard to the group and youve got a instant 100%. Now the other problem is a Guardian can self buff his Defense skill to +20, thats 4 levels. I know for a fact Berserkers cant self stack there Defense to that number and i know we cant self stack our Parry number to that ethier. Thats why, unless they change the Base avoidance rate on Plate class's, the avoidance adjustment wont effect us because we cant self buff our Defense skill to +20. Most i can raise mine by is +12 from Unflinching Will, nothing else stacks after that. Most i can raise my Parry skill is +12 from Wepaon Guard and nothing else stacks.</P> <P>There is a lvl 37 Dirge complaining on the Guard boards that he can solo epic group x2 encounters, now i dont know about the rest of you, but i know i sure as hell cant.</P> <P>Taemek Frozenberg 46th Berserker<BR>16th Outfitter<BR>Everfrost Server<BR><BR>Enlightened Aonein Amillion ( retired )<BR>70th Stone Fist of The Celestial Fist<BR>Five Rings on Luclin Server</P></DIV></DIV><p>Message Edited by -Aonein- on <span class=date_text>04-03-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:53 AM</span>

[-Aonein-]

<DIV> <P>:smileysad:</P></DIV><p>Message Edited by -Aonein- on <span class=date_text>04-03-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:52 AM</span>

[FamilyManFir]

<blockquote><hr>RaMaR wrote:<div></div>what are the buffs that stack and make a 100% avoidance? <div></div><p>Message Edited by RaMaR on <span class=date_text>04-02-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:03 PM</span><hr></blockquote>Supposedly Call of Protection and Return to Battle stack to provide a +23 to Defense (+15 from CoP and +8 from RtB). As far as I know no other class can stack self-buffs to gain that much Defense. I don't know what other classes' buffs might stack on top of that to increase Defense still further.Also, please remember that Avoidance <b>only refers to non-Heroic mobs of your level</b>. If a character could buff their Avoidance to 99% on their Persona screen, their Avoidance vs. an Heroic mob 6 levels higher would likely be 50% or worse given how Defense scales.There might be a display issue where the Avoidance on the Persona screen never goes over 100% even though it continues to improve, or it might be capped when your display hits 100% (although that doesn't seem likely, given the lack of uproar).

[BraveSma]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tagright wrote:<BR> Mr.Crap:  I did not suggest that you delete your character because berserkers are not great.  I made my suggestion because your post(s) reveal that you are too stupid to play a video game.  I am concerned that you may injure yourself in a keyboard accident.  <BR><BR>As far as your ability to spark controversy goes:  what you did was about as effective as claiming that the world is flat in your sixth grade science class.  It's the equivalent of a fart in a windstorm.  Now go away and bother us no more you little wanna-be troll.<BR> <P>Message Edited by Tagright on <SPAN class=date_text>04-01-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>07:28 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR><FONT color=#ff0000>K now you're the one being an idiot. Ever though of the possiblity that he may have MISREAD and though the nerf would only affect guardians?</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>You're just flaming him.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>Not that i agree with mr cap. The remarks he makes are pretty stupid, and he does deserve the 1-stars he got. I just don't think you should flame him for it. Way to be a hipocrite.</FONT></P>

[-Aonein-]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> FamilyManFirst wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> RaMaR wrote:<BR> what are the buffs that stack and make a 100% avoidance?<BR> <P>Message Edited by RaMaR on <SPAN class=date_text>04-02-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>03:03 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Supposedly Call of Protection and Return to Battle stack to provide a +23 to Defense (+15 from CoP and +8 from RtB). As far as I know no other class can stack self-buffs to gain that much Defense. I don't know what other classes' buffs might stack on top of that to increase Defense still further.<BR><BR>Also, please remember that Avoidance <B>only refers to non-Heroic mobs of your level</B>. If a character could buff their Avoidance to 99% on their Persona screen, their Avoidance vs. an Heroic mob 6 levels higher would likely be 50% or worse given how Defense scales.<BR><BR>There might be a display issue where the Avoidance on the Persona screen never goes over 100% even though it continues to improve, or it might be capped when your display hits 100% (although that doesn't seem likely, given the lack of uproar).<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Berserkers can buff as much as 12 - 13 to Defense depending on quaility of the art. +23 defense isnt what gives Guardians 100%, its a combination of buff stacking on raids and certian group formations. Use some defense buffs and watch how much your avoidance goes up, its basically nothing, i went from 57.2% to 58.1% from 13 Defense, so there is no way on earth can a Guardian self buff to 100%.</P> <P>What makes me laugh is, people seem to think that +23 defense is effectively making a white mob > green con or a red mob > white con. How does increasing your avoidance 1% shake a mobs con colour down 4 levels when Defense is only 1/3 of the avoidance number? Too effectievly make a Red mob > White con or a White Mob > Green con you would have to raise your Mitigation and all 3 peices of your Avoidance number, not just purely Defense.</P> <P>Taemek Frozenberg 47th Berserker<BR>16th Outfitter<BR>Everfrost Server<BR><BR>Enlightened Aonein Amillion ( retired )<BR>70th Stone Fist of The Celestial Fist<BR>Five Rings on Luclin Server</P><p>Message Edited by -Aonein- on <span class=date_text>04-05-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:31 PM</span>

[FamilyManFir]

<blockquote><hr>-Aonein- wrote:<P>Berserkers can buff as much as 12 - 13 to Defense depending on quaility of the art. +23 defense isnt what gives Guardians 100%, its a combination of buff stacking on raids and certian group formations. Use some defense buffs and watch how much your avoidance goes up, its basically nothing, i went from 57.2% to 58.1% from 13 Defense, so there is no way on earth can a Guardian self buff to 100%.</P><hr></blockquote>I'm sorry, I wasn't clear. I don't know whether or not Guardians are capable of self-buffing their avoidance to 100%, I was simply reporting what self-buffs they have that give them the maximum bonus to Defense. I was also trying to clear up a misconception, that "100% Avoidance" means that all attacks miss you. That's only true for non-Heroic white-con mobs of your level or weaker; a Heroic or higher-con mob will have a completely different chance to hit you.<blockquote><hr><P>What makes me laugh is, people seem to think that +23 defense is effectively making a white mob > green con or a red mob > white con. How does increasing your avoidance 1% shake a mobs con colour down 4 levels when Defense is only 1/3 of the avoidance number? Too effectievly make a Red mob > White con or a White Mob > Green con you would have to raise your Mitigation and all 3 peices of your Avoidance number, not just purely Defense.</P><hr></blockquote>First of all, Defense is not 1/3 of the Avoidance percent. Defense, Parry, and Block (or Deflection for Brawler-types) don't add together to make that %. The three defenses are checked sequentially for misses, and any hit moves on to the next defense. The resulting formula for figuring out your overall Avoidance % is:Given D for Defense %, P for Parry %, B for Block or Deflection %:1 - (1-D)(1-P)(1-B) = overall Avoidance.I'm not certain yet how that plots when changing one defense or another; I haven't laid it out yet. However, that's how it works.Secondly, the reason why +23 Defense effectively makes a white mob (your level) green or an <i>orange</i> mob (not red) white is because of the way Defense scales. +5 Defense doesn't change much to a white-con mob; I'd guesstimate that the Defense % alone improves about 5% or 10%, resulting in a .3% or .4% overall improvement. However, +5 Defense makes incredible changes to a low-blue mob; I found a <b>60%</b> difference in Defense alone between a low-blue and high-green mob.Therefore, against a white-con mob your level, a +5 Defense (white to high-blue) does a little bit, a +10 Defense (white to low-blue) does rather more, a +15 Defense (white to high-green) does a lot, and a +20 Defense (white to low-green) does a whole heck of a lot. Any more than +20 Defense "grays out" the white-con mob and gives you an effective 90%+ Avoidance. If the displayed Avoidance doesn't show that percentage then something is wrong with SOE's calculations. I can take any Fighter, slap on +23 to their Defense, aggro a white-con mob and then sit there and let them beat on the Fighter's face as long as you want and they'll get in one hit out of 15, or even worse. A white-con Heroic mob might get in more, but not much more; I'd be curious to see what actually took place, but I don't have a level 50 Guardian to try it with.I believe the same scaling takes place in the orange-con range. Defense, unbuffed, becomes almost useless against orange-con mobs. The Yellow, White, and Blue ranges show much smaller changes.I believe that this was done deliberately, to make gray-con mobs trivial (if they can't hit you they can't hurt you) and red-con mobs lethal (if they always hit you you're going to die). Unfortunately, the devs then decided to make buffs that boost Defense. I think that this was a serious mistake.I, personally, think that the devs should seriously consider switching all buffs that affect Defense, save <i>perhaps</i> the racial Traditions (they're only +5, after all). I think that all Avoidance-skill buffs should affect Parry, Block, or Deflection, which should scale more linearly than Defense. I believe that would make Parry, Block and Deflection less effective against Gray or Green mobs and more effective against Orange or Red mobs. However, the Defense scaling should take care of the Gray and Green mobs and Orange and Red mobs should still be nasty as long as they don't go overboard on Parry, Block and Deflection.

[CherobylJ]

Good post Family...I learned something there.

[-Aonein-]

<DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> FamilyManFirst wrote:<BR> <P><BR>I'm sorry, I wasn't clear. I don't know whether or not Guardians are capable of self-buffing their avoidance to 100%, I was simply reporting what self-buffs they have that give them the maximum bonus to Defense. I was also trying to clear up a misconception, that "100% Avoidance" means that all attacks miss you. That's only true for non-Heroic white-con mobs of your level or weaker; a Heroic or higher-con mob will have a completely different chance to hit you.</P> <P><FONT color=#66ccff>Show me the Dev post stating that the avoidance number is only a reference to be used against pure solo mobs. Because i think you will find that if you parse enough, that mobs are acually missing you for the given amount, reguardless of if there ethier, solo, heroic or epic amount of times it states it does, and if you break it down into block, parry and miss, then you will see what is displayed is correct for all solo, heroic and epic encounters.<BR></FONT><BR></P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> <P>What makes me laugh is, people seem to think that +23 defense is effectively making a white mob > green con or a red mob > white con. How does increasing your avoidance 1% shake a mobs con colour down 4 levels when Defense is only 1/3 of the avoidance number? Too effectievly make a Red mob > White con or a White Mob > Green con you would have to raise your Mitigation and all 3 peices of your Avoidance number, not just purely Defense.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>First of all, Defense is not 1/3 of the Avoidance percent. Defense, Parry, and Block (or Deflection for Brawler-types) don't add together to make that %. The three defenses are checked sequentially for misses, and any hit moves on to the next defense. The resulting formula for figuring out your overall Avoidance % is:<BR><BR>Given D for Defense %, P for Parry %, B for Block or Deflection %:<BR>1 - (1-D)(1-P)(1-B) = overall Avoidance. <BR><BR>I'm not certain yet how that plots when changing one defense or another; I haven't laid it out yet. However, that's how it works.</P> <P><FONT color=#66ccff>Yes i understand how it works, <STRONG><U>Base</U></STRONG> avoidance which is a result of your Defense skill is still 1/3 of the overall avoidance number, because with out that number the overall number would be different, takes 3 numbers to make 1 number, making it 1/3 of the avoidance number, which is what i refering to.<BR></FONT><BR>Secondly, the reason why +23 Defense effectively makes a white mob (your level) green or an <I>orange</I> mob (not red) white is because of the way Defense scales. +5 Defense doesn't change much to a white-con mob; I'd guesstimate that the Defense % alone improves about 5% or 10%, resulting in a .3% or .4% overall improvement. However, +5 Defense makes incredible changes to a low-blue mob; I found a <B>60%</B> difference in Defense alone between a low-blue and high-green mob.</P> <P>Therefore, against a white-con mob your level, a +5 Defense (white to high-blue) does a little bit, a +10 Defense (white to low-blue) does rather more, a +15 Defense (white to high-green) does a lot, and a +20 Defense (white to low-green) does a whole heck of a lot. Any more than +20 Defense "grays out" the white-con mob and gives you an effective 90%+ Avoidance. If the displayed Avoidance doesn't show that percentage then something is wrong with SOE's calculations. I can take any Fighter, slap on +23 to their Defense, aggro a white-con mob and then sit there and let them beat on the Fighter's face as long as you want and they'll get in one hit out of 15, or even worse. A white-con Heroic mob might get in more, but not much more; I'd be curious to see what actually took place, but I don't have a level 50 Guardian to try it with.</P> <P><FONT color=#66ccff>Try the same formula on two lvl 50 chars as you did on the two lvl 21 chars you performed this test on and tell me if you think the same. But since your test was performed on lvl 20 - 21 <STRONG><U>solo</U></STRONG> mobs and <STRONG><U>not</U></STRONG> heroic or epic mobs, you dont really know yourself, do you.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ccff>Any class and yes i mean, <STRONG><U>ANY</U></STRONG> class in the game can solo a even con non heroic mob. <STRONG><U>ANY</U></STRONG> class in the game can solo a orange non heroic mob. So if the avoidance number is only in reguards to non heroic solo mobs, and everyone can solo any non heroic mob and ill think you find a few happy Coercers and Illusionists that pride themselves on being able to solo red non heroic mobs around here Familyman. So your reasoning about the avoidance number being only in reference towards non heroic solo mobs, i think is false, cause 95% of the mobs we fight are Heroic encounters. Why would SoE display a number value in reguards ti a certain abaility we all get when we only come up agaisnt that typwe of mob 5% of the time? And to top it off, i think you will find that Illusionists and Coecers can also solo ornage <STRONG>^^</STRONG> con mobs, i have acually rubbed a few nerves raw saying that Enchnaters had no solo ability, and they flamed me for it, and was very willing to brag about there solo encounters with orange <STRONG>^^</STRONG> heroic mob encounters.</FONT><BR><BR>I, personally, think that the devs should seriously consider switching all buffs that affect Defense, save <I>perhaps</I> the racial Traditions (they're only +5, after all). I think that all Avoidance-skill buffs should affect Parry, Block, or Deflection, which should scale more linearly than Defense. I believe that would make Parry, Block and Deflection less effective against Gray or Green mobs and more effective against Orange or Red mobs. However, the Defense scaling should take care of the Gray and Green mobs and Orange and Red mobs should still be nasty as long as they don't go overboard on Parry, Block and Deflection.</P> <P><FONT color=#66ccff>Which is what we have been debating about for the last 6 weeks, you came in on the end of it when it all started to die down. What you state here is exactally what we would like to see happen.<BR></FONT></P> <P> <HR> <P></P></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Taemek Frozenberg 47th Berserker<BR>16th Outfitter<BR>Everfrost Server<BR><BR>Enlightened Aonein Amillion ( retired )<BR>70th Stone Fist of The Celestial Fist<BR>Five Rings on Luclin Server</DIV></DIV><p>Message Edited by -Aonein- on <span class=date_text>04-06-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:08 PM</span>

[Dead Sy]

<span>Not a useful post, but... <blockquote><hr>Tagright wrote:Mr.Crap:  I did not suggest that you delete your character because berserkers are not great.  I made my suggestion because your post(s) reveal that you are too stupid to play a video game.  I am concerned that you may injure yourself in a keyboard accident.  <div></div><hr></blockquote> AAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA</span><div></div>

[FamilyManFir]

Aonein, I'm going to start a new thread to continue this discussion. We're perpetuating a thread that was, in my NOT so humble opinion, started by an a**, and I want to let it fade into oblivion.My response is <a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=4&message.id=10091" target=_blank>here</a>.