Guardian-ness of higher-level Berserkers - Main Tankage

[BraveSma]

<DIV>I'm a lvl 21 rat.  zerk. and I LOVE to be main tank. So I can't stand it when a guardian comes up, joins the group, and becomes MT.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Could someone please post all the taunts that berserkers get and include by how much they increase hate (this could take some research but I'll love you if you can get it for me)?</DIV> <DIV>Also, does anyone have any suggestions for added boosts to defense OTHER than getting better armor? Any strategies?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks</DIV>

[-Aonein-]

<P>Berserkers are Guardians brother, we are both exactally the same unbuffed with the same armor and at the same level, there is no difference, the difference is Guardians are a better Defensive tank while we are the better Offensive tank.</P> <P><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=4&message.id=6794" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=4&message.id=6794</A></P> <P>Taemek Frozenberg 45th Berserker<BR>16th Outfitter<BR>Everfrost Server<BR><BR>Enlightened Aonein Amillion ( retired )<BR>70th Stone Fist of The Celestial Fist<BR>Five Rings on Luclin Server</P><p>Message Edited by -Aonein- on <span class=date_text>03-30-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:18 PM</span>

[JBo]

Well, at level 21, there is no difference between a guardian and berserker at all. <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Actually, you tank better than guardians in the 20s, as you get many more hate generating spells and arts.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just remember to get all your armour and spells upgraded to the best you can, and you can compare HP and AC with guardians when they join the group. Usually the one with higher stats get the tank job.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, your personal skills affect a lot. A good beserker is 10 times better than a bad guardian. I can tell you that I know at least one guardian in the game, while he is higher level than me, but there are at least one player in most groups I was in said he sucks, and didn't want to even group with him, less let him tanking.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Another point is that, even when you are not the main tank, off tanking can still contribute to the group a lot. As you can be the DPS with highest HP and AC, and can stand up against the mobs when your group is in great danger.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, you can help taunt mobs off healers and casters, and they will greatly appreciate what you are doing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Good luck, man.</DIV>

[BraveSma]

<P>Thanks,</P> <P>Just one more thing: is it true that guardians get health bonuses?</P>

[JBo]

<DIV>Raw HP is the same.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But guardians do get more self and group HP buffs, so with all Guardian's buff up, he will have more HP and AC then berserker.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>However, there are also some nice self HP buffs you can choose from the trainings.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, you can upgrade your HP buffs to Adept III, which will also boost your HP.</DIV>

[kr8ztwin]

well if they nerf down defense like its been implied.....my ratzerker is going to roll his little way to the top and probably be a more effective MT than my Guard.  I am curious how this is all going to pan out.  I mean with defense not stacking or doing less "avoiding" my rat will have better avoidance and more effective hate control through DPS.  Yessss....i'm verrry curious heh.

[-Aonein-]

<DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> JBoot wrote:<BR> <DIV>Raw HP is the same.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But guardians do get more self and group HP buffs, so with all Guardian's buff up, he will have more HP and AC then berserker.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>However, there are also some nice self HP buffs you can choose from the trainings.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, you can upgrade your HP buffs to Adept III, which will also boost your HP.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><BR>The amount you get from a App IV to Adept III isnt even worth mentioning, the specialization art for HP buff is a joke. All these things are part and parcel of the problems with Combat Arts, Abilities and Spells which SoE will not address.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <P align=center></P> <HR> <P align=left>Bravesmart wrote:</P> <P>Thanks,</P> <P>Just one more thing: is it true that guardians get health bonuses?</P> <P></P> <HR> <P></P> <P>Yes its ture, but all class's get a HP bonus just like they would a Strength bonus if they got to the required amount of STR or STA to recieve the bonus, as it sits i believe you get a bonus to your total HP pool at 200 STA, im not sure on percentages because its that hard to breach 200 STA its not funny. STR you get a bonus to your damage output plus total power pool at 100, 150 and 200, im not sure on acualy figures, i cant find the thread that had the information in it, but its roughly close to those numbers. Let me try and find the thread ill post back here with the right numbers.</P> <P>Taemek Frozenberg 45th Berserker<BR>16th Outfitter<BR>Everfrost Server<BR><BR>Enlightened Aonein Amillion ( retired )<BR>70th Stone Fist of The Celestial Fist<BR>Five Rings on Luclin Server</P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by -Aonein- on <span class=date_text>03-31-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:19 PM</span>

[Ixiecoa]

<P>if you are a lvl 50 zerker and a lvl 50 guardian in group and have the same buffs.... the DEFENSE skill of the guardian will be about 10-15 points higher then yours.</P> <P>this doesnt matter much in xp groups but for raids and soloing its very very important (have you ever soloed a blue doublearrow group mob ? no ? me neither, but i seen guardians do it sometimes - low blues of course but still blue-). in epic encounters if the target encounter is a high lvl (54+) mob these few defense points will also make a big difference in tanking. </P> <P>zerkers can raidtank, but the higher lvl the target is.... the more you will want a guardian to do it.</P> <P>MAYBE this is not intended, because we DO have a buff that grants us aditional defense (controlled rage at adept1 at lvl 50 gives me 13 defense) but this one is broken since it doesnt stack with our stance skill (and even if it would, with the new reuse timers and just 3 mins durations its just good for those 3mins)</P> <P>the whole offensive tank / defensive tank is bullsh*t, i m a WARRIOR and when i chose to become a berserker i was under the impression (as told by the manual, EQ2 website, moorgard statements etc) that we do a little more dmg then guardians and have a little less defense.</P> <P>this is however not true, i do ALOT more damage then guardians and they tank MUCH better.... even though we are the same CLASS</P> <P>this is like a templar healing much better than an inquisitor and the inquisitor doings lots more damage, i doubt inquisitors would like that =)</P> <P>the berserkers who want to deal big damage... go back to EQ1 or play a wiz/scout, it was clearly stated many times that we re not intended to be DPS machines , we re just supposed to get some higher DPS then guardians in exchange for a little less defense.</P> <P> </P>

[JBo]

<P>For proper balance of Berserker and Guardian tank abilities, I would suggest SOE to consider:</P> <P>1) Berserkers have +5 offense skills more than Guardians</P> <P>2) Guardians have +5 defense skills more than Berserkers</P> <DIV>Any difference more than 5 would create serious problems.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Styk]

JBoot that is just not possible what you are asking for, Guardian buffs are based around AC and HP, our WERE ( not anymore for the atk portion ) Based around atk and HP... Plus or Minus 5 wouldnt do sqaut for a difference between Guards and Tanks because they will still be too close together to have any differnce <div></div>

[JBo]

<P>The flavours of different tanks can still be very different in the current design.</P> <P>However, the difference of core tankability between Guardians and Berserkers, from my point of view, shouldn't exceed 1 adventurer level.</P> <DIV>while +5 defense skill is already a whole level difference, Guardians can have +30 defense skill and Berserkers can only have +12 defense skill. That's a nearly 4 whole adventurer levels of difference.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Developers are definitely looking at this right now. I would not suggest a nerf on guardians, however, the broken defense buffs of other classes should be taken a look at.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For balance issues, the new defense skills of fighters should look something like this:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Maximum defense:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV>Warrior:     +25 defense skill</DIV> <DIV> <DIV>Crusader:  +22 defense skill</DIV> <DIV> <DIV> <DIV>Brawler:     +20 defense skill</DIV> <DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>At same time, all classes can still keep their own flavour, such as:</DIV> <DIV>1) Guardian: AC/HP buff</DIV> <DIV>2) Berserker: self haste</DIV> <DIV>3) Crusader: heal/DoT</DIV> <DIV>4) Brawler: avoidance</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This way, the core tankability difference would be too much, while different flavours can give players more fun.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Currently, no other fighter subclasses can surpass +12 defense skill, while guardians can have +30 defense skill, and this has created serious problems for other fighter classes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A general nerf on defense skill is not recommended, as you approach the end of game, you need more defense skills since you will be locked at level 50, while mobs can have whatever levels the devs give to them.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>

[Death4]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> JBoot wrote: <DIV> <DIV> <DIV> <DIV> <DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Currently, no other fighter subclasses can surpass +12 defense skill, while guardians can have +30 defense skill, and this has created serious problems for other fighter classes.</DIV> <DIV><BR> <HR> </DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>Wrong.  We can get +20.  Not +30.  Don't forget you got a lot more Parry buffs as well, which aren't a negligable skill.<BR>

[BraveSma]

<P>OK guys thanks for that. So...berserkers can raid tank?</P> <P> </P>