New Mitigation and Avoidance values, slightly confused. [Archive]

View Full Version : New Mitigation and Avoidance values, slightly confused.

-Aonein-

03-22-2005, 03:01 AM

<DIV>SoE i understand what your aim is with AC, Mitigation and Avoidance, but please tell me this, i had over 6000 AC unbuffed before the patch, after the patch with all my items attuned, i now have Mitigation 2095 unbuffed with a 57.8% chance of Avoiding a attack, so, is this working correctly, because if Avoidance was making the bulk of the AC number for a plate class BEFORE this patch, isnt this wrong seeing we are a mitigation class, not a avoidance class tank? Also, how does AC value of Armor effect the Mitigation Value now?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Taemek Frozenberg 45th Berserker 16th Outfitter Blood and Ice Everfrost Server Enlightened Aonein Amillion ( retired ) 70th Stone Fist of The Celestial Fist Five Rings on Luclin Server</DIV>

Roph

03-22-2005, 03:06 AM

<DIV>I think the problem you are having is that you are comparing the new number to your old number. They totally revamped the reporting, not just split it up. So that 57.8% avoidance does not represent the missing 4000 defense from your old defense #.</DIV>

-Aonein-

03-22-2005, 03:13 AM

Yes i know, i read a post of moorgards stating why they were doing the change, but he never went into, how Armor AC is going to effect the value of the new Mitigation number, we all know that Shields, Combat Arts, Abilities and Spells only effect Avoidance and if you cast spells etc you clearly see a change in only Avoidance ( except Havoc / Anarchy cause they have values that increase Mitigation ). Taemek Frozenberg 45th Berserker 16th Outfitter Blood and Ice Everfrost Server Enlightened Aonein Amillion ( retired ) 70th Stone Fist of The Celestial Fist Five Rings on Luclin Server

-Aonein-

03-22-2005, 03:35 AM

Also, my resistances numbers have also changed, has anyone else noticed this also, i dont remeber reading in the patch notes they were adjusting Resistance values. Taemek Frozenberg 45th Berserker 16th Outfitter Blood and Ice Everfrost Server Enlightened Aonein Amillion ( retired ) 70th Stone Fist of The Celestial Fist Five Rings on Luclin Server

eade

03-22-2005, 04:32 AM

yep , my resists dropped the same time the ac value reporting changed

-Aonein-

03-22-2005, 04:39 AM

<DIV> Let me be a little more clear on what im trying to get at, seeing im confusing people. I ran a few tests, unbuffed + no shield, unbuffed + shield, buffed + no shiled, buffed + shield. Shield i used was a Pristine Conditioned Cedar Tower Shield and also only self buffing with Unflinching Will and Weapon Guard, seeing Darkmoore's Protective Advance doesnt add avoidance due to no Parry skill increasement, only adds Mitigation due to slashing, crushing and piercing bonus. Lets start with Avoidance, with out a shield and unbuffed i have 56.9% chance to avoid a attack, when i place my cursor over the avoidance number i get : Unbuffed, No Shield = 56.9% : Base: 38.1% Block: 0.0% Parry: 30.3% Deflection: 0.0% Total = 68.4% Unbuffed, with Shield = 63.5% : Base: 37.4% Block: 16.8% Parry: 29.8% Deflection: 0.0% Total = 84.0% Buffed, No Shield = 58.2% Base: 39.5% Block: 0.0% Parry: 31.0% Deflection: 0.0% Total = 70.5% Buffed, with Shield = 64.6% Base: 38.8% Block: 16.8% Parry: 30.4% Deflection: 0.0% Total = 86.0% Now, why is the Base Avoidance rate changing when i equip a shield and buff myself ? Shouldnt a Base number be just that, Base value reguardless of being buffed or not, with or with out a shield. Also, why arent the numbers reflecting there ture value like Moorguard said, there will be no mystery about numbers anymore, so why dont the values match when added up, and more importantly, how is this number that we are shown BEFORE putting the cursor over the avoidance number being calculated. Cause if you read the post below, he states: Moorgard wrote: Because after all, stuff that impacts your character shouldn't be a mystery. <A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=items&message.id=26660#M26660" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=items&message.id=26660#M26660</A> Now Mitigation, unbuffed i have a 2095 and will absorb 46.5% damage from a lvl 45 opponent. Now buffing myself with Anarchy and Darkmoores's Protective Advance i get a total value of 2441 and will absorb 54.2% damage from a lvl 45 opponent. Now before anyone gets lost, or is still confused, Yes i know nothing has changed with the way we tank, but, i would like to know how the Mitigation numbers are calculated and why Avoidance numbers are being calculated the way they are, also why is the Base value of Avoidance changing with a shield and being buffed, when a Base value should be staying the same, and Parry and Block should be about the only number based percentage numbers being increased or decreased due to increases in Block and Parry. Taemek Frozenberg 45th Berserker 16th Outfitter Blood and Ice Everfrost Server Enlightened Aonein Amillion ( retired ) 70th Stone Fist of The Celestial Fist Five Rings on Luclin Server</DIV>Message Edited by -Aonein- on 03-22-2005 03:42 PM

Chanliang

03-22-2005, 02:00 PM

<div></div>Agility/defence affects at least for base %, not sure if those are only things raising it. Agility also affects to parry. So basicly it seems that when hit comes you first compare hit vs. base then after that block, parry and deflection for last. If hit goes through then damage is reduces by the migitation value and rest is the damage that hits you. Buffed, with Shield = 64.6% Base: 38.8% Block: 16.8% Parry: 30.4% Deflection: 0.0% Total = 86.0% So with your stats when hit comes from even con mob it has 61.2% to come through then again hit has 83.2% chance to pass from block, 69.6% chance after that pass parry. If you mathematician you could calculate total % chance hit to pass your avoidance and I'm pretty sure it's 64.6% <div></div>Message Edited by Chanliang on 03-22-2005 01:05 AM

-Aonein-

03-22-2005, 03:24 PM

<DIV>:smileysad:</DIV>Message Edited by -Aonein- on 03-22-2005 08:26 PM

-Aonein-

03-22-2005, 03:25 PM

<HR> Chanling wrote: So with your stats when hit comes from even con mob it has 61.2% to come through then again hit has 83.2% chance to pass from block, 69.6% chance after that pass parry. If you mathematician you could calculate total % chance hit to pass your avoidance and I'm pretty sure it's 64.6% <HR> Chan can you please explain where you got those numbers ? Taemek Frozenberg 45th Berserker 16th Outfitter Blood and Ice Everfrost Server Enlightened Aonein Amillion ( retired ) 70th Stone Fist of The Celestial Fist Five Rings on Luclin Server

Chanliang

03-22-2005, 05:23 PM

So basically if you're fighting against white con mob which is your level and you avoidance base is 38.8%. If without agi+defence mob will hit you for 100% certainty then with your base avoidance mob hit chance to you is 100%-38.8% = 61.2%. If you dont avoid that then you have 16.8% chance to block incoming hit so again mob has 100%-16.8% = 83.2% to pass your block and so on until all avoidances either stopped hit or mob hits you and then mitigation reduces done damage and it might result miss (due high mitigation) or you get some damage. That's the way I believe it goes, also mitigation isnt actually real percentage I believe cause as stated if your armor mitigates enough damage = 0 damage dealt is shown as miss. Well not my best english post but i hope this clarifies issue a bit more. <div></div>

Snaggletoo

03-22-2005, 05:38 PM

Im confused too. Anyway, slighgtly off topic. I noticed the shield factor of my crude conditioned cedar tower shield is now around 760 ish (need to check exactly, noticed just before getting kicked pre next patch). It had an AC of 806 pre big patch. Aonein, could you please post the shield factor of your pristine cedar tower shield. I want to check that they are still equivalent. For those who are wondering, I got a crude cedar tower shield made because it gave the same ac (806) as the pristine ones, but its useable at lvl 36, and you get the full ac at lvl 44, rather than lvl 50. I thought this was a good trade off for the loss of 7 health and 2 power from the stats. As a zerker im not bothered about the int or wiz. I only did this because ac is the most important thing in a shield. If the ac was less than a pristine i would have got a pristine one instead. I just want to check they still have the same shield factor. If they have stealth nerfed my t5 shield, i will be very annoyed <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Dashel

03-22-2005, 06:22 PM

I think Chanliang has it right. Makes sense to me anyway. Your base is likely effected by class, level and stats. I would guess your 1h + shield set up has less +Agi on it than whatever you had equipped in it's place. Thats why your base number (and parry) is moving slightly down. Block is all about a shield, so thats pretty obvious. I think where some go wrong is totalling up Block + Parry + Base to find the avoidance. But it doesnt work that way. In this example: Buffed, with Shield = 64.6% Base: 38.8% Block: 16.8% Parry: 30.4% Deflection: 0.0% A monster swings at you... first it rolls against your Base, which is 38.8%, so it has a 62.2% chance to get by that. 100-38.8 = 62.2 Lets say it gets through (if it doesn,t the monster misses you). Next it rolls against Block: 16.8%, so it has a 83.2% (100-16.<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> chance to get by that. Lets say it gets by block too (if not, you get a Block message), so now it got by the base and block, it goes to your Parry which is 30.4% so it has a 69.6% chance to get by, lets say it does (if not you get a Parried message). So it got by all your defenses now, which it has a 34.6% chance to do (Buffed, with Shield = 64.6%. 100 - 64.6 = 35.4% chance to hit total) Lets say it would hit you for 100 points damage normally, now we factor in Mitigation. Lets say your mitigation is 40% (I'm making this number up completely because I'm not sure how mitigation is calculated) the 100 it would have hit your for gets translated to 60 actual damage to you (100 damage - 40% mitigation = 60 damage) <div></div>

Erick_Stormfu

03-22-2005, 07:45 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> -Aonein- wrote: <DIV> why is the Base value of Avoidance changing with a shield and being buffed, when a Base value should be staying the same, and Parry and Block should be about the only number based percentage numbers being increased or decreased due to increases in Block and Parry.</DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> quick question, what are your stats before and after... are the weapons/shields changing your stats, therefore upping the value of your base? -Erick

-Aonein-

03-23-2005, 02:17 AM

Yeah Chanliang explains well, she also pointed out that Agility also changes the number where i previously forgot about agility changing the chance to avoid, seeing Defense and Agility are classed as a Base value, it would indicate why the Base value would be changing. Like Chanliang also pointed out which i didnt think of at the time ( by the way, it pays not to post when you first wake up, cause later on during the day, things you didnt think of come to you like a preminition ) but if you are a mathematical person, and add those 4 values up and divide them, you should be able to come up with the value that is show in your Persona window. Taemek Frozenberg 45th Berserker 16th Outfitter Blood and Ice Everfrost Server Enlightened Aonein Amillion ( retired ) 70th Stone Fist of The Celestial Fist Five Rings on Luclin Server Message Edited by -Aonein- on 03-23-2005 07:17 AM

FamilyManFir

03-23-2005, 05:47 AM

Chanliang nailed it and Dashel explained it in detail. If you want a formula to work with, then let your Base avoidance be D (because it come from your Defense skill), let your Block avoidance be B, and let your Parry avoidance be P. Your overall avoidance will be: 1 - (1 - D)(1 - B)(1 - P) Basically each defense is checked in sequence (and, interestingly, it doesn't matter what the sequence is) and any strike which gets past the first defense is checked against the next, and so on. Agi affects both your Defense skill (the "Base" listed) and your Parry skill. Riposte isn't listed anywhere; I'm currently convinced that it's a critical Parry of some kind.