multiple mob encounters with adds

[RufusDeMar]

<DIV>Hey fellow zerkers!  Just have to ask something that's been bothering me lately..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Here's a scenario:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You are lead tank in a full group killing a yellow con multiple mob encounter when another multiple mob encounter that's say even or blue adds to the group.. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What tactics do you recommend for gaining control of the situation since if you don't act fast the whole group could wipe if you don't get aggro.  Now in a full group (depending on the group makeup) you could take both encounters without much trouble so how do you (as the MT) take control of both encounters without causing everyone that's assisting you (implied target) to freak out by switching targets?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As a berserker, I know we one out of encounter AOE that will draw aggro (Assault) and that seems to be the only tool but it doesn't hit every target since there appears to be a max amount of mobs it hits and if the healer is healing (which he/she usually will be) the healer can and will gain aggro really fast since all you did was a damaging attack that wasn't an actually "taunt".  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My question is how do you gain control of both encounters and keep all the mobs focused on you without switching targets and [Removed for Content] off the assisters.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Or is it not possible without switching?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Let me know what you think. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>PS - It could also work with just a single ^^ group add</DIV>

[Kaberu]

<P><EM>This is cut and copied from my guild site.. I wrote it to help out some of the guildies that were new to MMOs and Everquest 2:</EM></P> <P></P> <HR> <DIV>Your Taunt obviously makes alot of sense.. but sometimes there are just better ways of gaining or maintaing aggro. Here are just a couple tips and some alternate ways of maintaining aggro:<BR><BR><B>Read the Descriptions</B>:<BR>You might be amazed at what some of your abilities do. It turns out my best taunt is an attack, Promise of Violence. It generates about the same hate points as my primary taunt (does 421 compared to my taunt's 379 to 463), but it also does damage (increasing hate further), buffs my strength by 19 (even more aggro) and can cause me to berserk (which if I do, gives me even more aggro). Promise only costs 10 power more to cast. The only benefit to my normal taunt is that it interrupts and has range. For generating aggro though, Promise is in :smileyvery-happy:  Just be sure you are using the best taunt for the situation... there are utility taunts (like my ranged Mad Cry) and then there are die hard aggro generators. The important part is to remember to add up all the pieces.<BR><BR><B>Simply Ravishing</B>:<BR>Stun attacks are the bread and butter of buying time. It doesn't matter if it gets you aggro, it buys you a few seconds more to work your magic. Just be sure you use the best stun for the situation. Keep in mind those encouter stuns... very useful if you lose aggro on just one of the mobs in the group you are fighting.<BR><BR><B>The Group Defense Buff</B>:<BR>Berserkers and Guardians in particular, this is your best weapon. It starts way back at level 12 with Rallying Cry and you get updates every so often. The best time to use this is when the mobs and your group are intertwined. The closer they are together, the more aggro you generate for yourself. In general, group AC/Def buffs are the best, followed by stat boosts... after that it's kind of low on the aggro. Usually your long term maintained buffs are kind of low on the aggro scale. It's the combat buffs you should examine closer. Best way to use this... go to pull the mob with a ranged taunt, bring it right into the middle of your group or very near it and hit it. After a while you can time it so the mobs just get into your groups melee range as the spell goes off. You'll have a ton of starting aggro as well as extra defense to mitigate more damage.<BR><BR><B>The Debuff</B>:<BR>Debuffs draw alot of aggro. AC/Defense debuffs in particular are very potent (just as group AC/Defense buffs are the most potent). Instead of waiting for your taunts to recycle, throw in a debuffing attack or two.<BR><BR><B>Damage over Time</B>:<BR>While not as potent as a debuff attack, the act of DoTing the mob adds more instant aggro than the actual damage inflicted at the time.<BR><BR><B>[Removed for Content] Slapping</B>:<BR>Never underestimate the aggro that alot of damage can generate. In regular group instances. Every tank class will wind up with at least one high damage attack (not including Harm Touch), sometimes it's a good idea to save it to use when a mob switches targets. Just target him fast and hit the attack, follow up with regular taunting methods if it doesn't work. In a situation where aggro will not be not be regained, the high damage attack already hit him once and might recycle to hit him again if he doesn't drop by then. High damage attacks aside, even regular sustained damage goes along way into maintain aggro, alot more than most people give it credit for. For the Brawler classes, damage is a much larger portion of aggro control and for Berserkers, it's a good part to why we can hold large groups of mobs so well even when we don't want them  :smileytongue:<BR><BR><B>Switching Targets</B>:<BR>In cases where you don't have alot of AoE abilities (or they are not very efficient) You should really practice fast-switching targets. If you bring two targets, stay on one, but when a decent aggro generating ability pops (like a single target DoT, Debuff or Taunt), switch your target to the offhand mob and hit your ability. As soon as you hit that button, switch back. Your ability will still go off on the intended target and help you control aggro on adds better. In my case if I pulled three mobs, I might attack the main target... I'll switch to mob 2 and hit my slashing DoT button then switch back. As I fight mob 1 my DoT goes off on Mob 2, I switch to mob 3 and hit my Att/Def debuff attack button and switch back. That goes off as I keep fighting Mob 1... when the abilities repop, I repeat. This is really hard to do with just the keyboard and probably fairly hard in crowded areas in first person view. If you can, I suggest third person with mouse targeting as it also helps in watching for adds in all directions as well.<BR><BR><B>Ya I mean you.. and you, you you and you</B>:<BR>Encounter taunts are in general, weak on a per mob basis. They usually include some secondary effects however and when you fight a large group, you should use them as a replacement to a single taunt. Pull with a regular taunt but use your Encounter taunts with a little more frequency. Basically they counter aggro generated by group members from heals, buffs and AoE attacks.<BR><BR><B>Whens and Wheres</B>:<BR>Optimally, you should only need taunt to secure initial aggro and then rely on your regular attacks, specials and buffs to maintain it (some of which will probably have taunt components anyway). After I switch to a new mob when one dies I might use taunt again to ensure I have a jump on my group members but after alot of practice, you'll start to learn when you'll need the basic taunt and when you won't.<BR><BR>When you fight multiple mobs from different encounter groups you'll likely need to rely on the group buff or fast-switch tactics. If you need to switch between more than one encounter group, you should rely on your Encounter taunts to maintain aggro on the offhand group. This is one case where pure AoE attacks can be very useful as they generate aggro for all the mobs around you whether they are linked or not.<BR><BR>The important thing to remember in huge cluster-[expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]s of a fight: Know who to save. If Drohma draws aggro from a mob he can handle, I won't waste the mana taunting. If someone can't handle it I'll fight for every bit of aggro. Don't judge it by class either... try to determine it by past experience or the first few hits taken. It really helps to know the relative strength of each group member compared to the mobs you are fighting.<BR><BR>Well I hope this works as a basic guide and please feel free to ask questions, make suggestions or otherwise comment :smileywink:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><EM>Hopefully this helps some!</EM></DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV><EM>Heh, just reread it... forgot about the explitive and you can substitute Drohma's name with "a scout" because that's what he is :smileytongue:</EM></DIV><p>Message Edited by Kaberu on <span class=date_text>03-16-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:44 PM</span>

[-Aonein-]

<DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P><EM></EM></P> <P></P> <HR> <DIV><BR><B>Switching Targets</B>:<BR>In cases where you don't have alot of AoE abilities (or they are not very efficient) You should really practice fast-switching targets. If you bring two targets, stay on one, but when a decent aggro generating ability pops (like a single target DoT, Debuff or Taunt), switch your target to the offhand mob and hit your ability. As soon as you hit that button, switch back. Your ability will still go off on the intended target and help you control aggro on adds better. In my case if I pulled three mobs, I might attack the main target... I'll switch to mob 2 and hit my slashing DoT button then switch back. As I fight mob 1 my DoT goes off on Mob 2, I switch to mob 3 and hit my Att/Def debuff attack button and switch back. That goes off as I keep fighting Mob 1... when the abilities repop, I repeat. This is really hard to do with just the keyboard and probably fairly hard in crowded areas in first person view. If you can, I suggest third person with mouse targeting as it also helps in watching for adds in all directions as well.<BR><BR></DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>There is only one problem with your theory here, most people in the game are lazy, and they target via you ( Main Assist ), so switching targets isnt a good idea. If they have a for example /assist Kaberu hot button made its ok, you get a pre target, group can /assist Kaberu, they then stay on that target, if they dont do it this way, and just click on you to use as there pre target, when you change targets, they change with you, so in the event mobs are out of sight, or out of range, then there just left standing there doing nothing, and when there is multiple group adds, its near impossiable to see a target ring due to the mass mobs around you, so your basically swinging in the dark unless are easily visually different.</P> <P>If you are grouped with experienced people its ok to switch, but if your in a pick up group, i would strongly advise not to switch, people get confused and just start targeting what ever they want, keep it clean, keep the same target till it dies, use group buffs to maintain agro on the mobs that added to the party, as long as no one does damage to them, it will be ok.</P> <P>Its all about /assist and not targeting the tank for a target.</P> <P>Taemek Frozenberg 44th Berserker<BR>16th Outfitter<BR>Blood and Ice<BR>Everfrost Server<BR><BR>Enlightened Aonein Amillion ( retired )<BR>70th Stone Fist of The Celestial Fist<BR>Five Rings on Luclin Server<BR></P></DIV>

[Kaberu]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> -Aonein- wrote:<BR> <DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P><EM></EM></P> <P></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>There is only one problem with your theory here, most people in the game are lazy, and they target via you ( Main Assist ), so switching targets isnt a good idea. If they have a for example /assist Kaberu hot button made its ok, you get a pre target, group can /assist Kaberu, they then stay on that target, if they dont do it this way, and just click on you to use as there pre target, when you change targets, they change with you, so in the event mobs are out of sight, or out of range, then there just left standing there doing nothing, and when there is multiple group adds, its near impossiable to see a target ring due to the mass mobs around you, so your basically swinging in the dark unless are easily visually different.</P> <P>If you are grouped with experienced people its ok to switch, but if your in a pick up group, i would strongly advise not to switch, people get confused and just start targeting what ever they want, keep it clean, keep the same target till it dies, use group buffs to maintain agro on the mobs that added to the party, as long as no one does damage to them, it will be ok.</P> <P>Its all about /assist and not targeting the tank for a target.</P> <P>Taemek Frozenberg 44th Berserker<BR>16th Outfitter<BR>Blood and Ice<BR>Everfrost Server<BR><BR>Enlightened Aonein Amillion ( retired )<BR>70th Stone Fist of The Celestial Fist<BR>Five Rings on Luclin Server<BR></P></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>This is a guide for a tank to help keep aggro, not a guide to tell other classes to pay attention :smileywink: Primarily you only do this in unexpected situations (pops, adds and the like) where you wind up with multiple mobs from seperate encounters. Usually I just designate another tank or a scout that is in the group as the assist person if I am expecting these occurances (for instance, going into DFC or a new area). This lets me "play the field" while the core DPS is focused on dropping single targets. In pickup groups, it's sometimes a nice way to involve the group a little more... basically I am saying "Yes I can tank the mobs, I just need your help to do it." I highly recoommend doing this with tank classes that don't have quite the AoE control that Berserkers do. Also remember, I wrote this as a guide for Fighters in general :smileyhappy:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For the targeting ring issue, just go into your options and up the slider that makes your target glow (not the ring itself). i also suggest having the encounter group have a milder glow so you can spot the non-encounter mobs easily... they're the ones not glowing. That's what I did and it's very obvious to what I have targeted, even in times whene the arrow is less than specific.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Amon`]

<P>Group buffs work great for building aggro on mobs outside the current encounter you are attacking.</P> <P>Amon</P>

[Tagright]

If the new mobs agro on me I do nothing other than start watching other group members' health closely. As long as the mobs are hitting me and everyone is assisting me, it's nothing to worry about. If they agro on other groupmembers, I immediately target the adds and do what I have to do to grab agro. You really don't need to do much to gain agro on a group of mobs that has attacked your group due solely to proximity. If your wizzie accidentally dropped a huge nuke on a group of mobs that were not the mobs you were fighting, it's a different story. You need to work at pulling them off him.I would much rather have everyone assisting me while I switch between mobs than doing their own thing. In my experience most wipes occur when the group stops assisting and one or more non-tanks end up on their own mobs.

[Kaberu]

<DIV>The problem being if someone tries to rebuff (like a bard) because their buffs start to drop for whatever reason. Trying to take aggro back from an AoE nuke is easy, trying to take aggro back from someone who just recasted more buffs than you have in total skills is another problem. You can tank on autopilot if ya like, I just prefer a more active playstyle. And nobody said assisting wasn't important, I just said it doesn't need to be the main tank that everyone assists off of. Why does it have to be you? Are you the only one who can make good descisions on who to target next?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The idea of tanking really needs to break out of the confines we've trapped it in for regular grinds. I have a friend who plays a brigand. It's a rogue class and unlike some of the other scouts aside from maybe Swashbucklers, they can do a good deal of damage from any angle. They are built sturdy and they even have a taunt. When I'm grouped with him I designate him as the "mage-killer." I'll pull a mob groups and stun the entire encounter and he'll start with a few high damage back attacks, taunt to take aggro and finish it off with a high damage front attack or two while the rest of the group takes on the more stalwart melees. Even if there is a healer in the group, he can drop it before it has a chance to heal or at the very least force the healer to heal the mage instead of itself as I attack the healer. Damage is minimal overeall. I'm not taking nuke damage and he might only get hit once or twice IF he doesn't manage to interrupt it's casting before it dies.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If there is mob that can stifle in the group, all the more better to sic the mage-killer on him. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It's a sound tactic, gets at least one scout out of his autoattack sleep, and it adds a little more dynamic to the group fight. I'm obviously not going to ask him to do this to mobs that will wipe the floor with him but in most regular grind fights, it's not a problem. Maybe it will take a few fighters off their high horse when they think they're the only ones who should have aggro at all :smileywink:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[-Aonein-]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> <P>Kaberu wrote:</P> <P><BR>And nobody said assisting wasn't important, I just said it doesn't need to be the main tank that everyone assists off of. Why does it have to be you? Are you the only one who can make good descisions on who to target next?</P> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Yes it does have to be the MA / MT everyone assists, because it keeps it neat, maximizes DPS on the one mob making it die quicker and people dont get confused, other people just targeting willy nilly, TAB targeting is evil, makes a priests job harder by having to heal more then the MA / MT because someone isnt assisting and takes agro from a mob, which in turn, you wont be able to regain agro, because he is 2000 - 3000 agro points up on you because he has been attacking the wrong target while the rest of the group has been assisting the MA / MT.</P> <P>Most people who dont or havent played a MA / MT role, rely on the tank for a target to assist, it keep's it neat, fights are shorter when DPS is concentrated on one mob at a time, not several through out the encounter.</P> <P>Taemek Frozenberg 44th Berserker<BR>16th Outfitter<BR>Blood and Ice<BR>Everfrost Server<BR><BR>Enlightened Aonein Amillion ( retired )<BR>70th Stone Fist of The Celestial Fist<BR>Five Rings on Luclin Server<BR></P>

[Kaberu]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> -Aonein- wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Yes it does have to be the MA / MT everyone assists, because it keeps it neat, maximizes DPS on the one mob making it die quicker and people dont get confused, other people just targeting willy nilly, TAB targeting is evil, makes a priests job harder by having to heal more then the MA / MT because someone isnt assisting and takes agro from a mob, which in turn, you wont be able to regain agro, because he is 2000 - 3000 agro points up on you because he has been attacking the wrong target while the rest of the group has been assisting the MA / MT.</P> <P>Most people who dont or havent played a MA / MT role, rely on the tank for a target to assist, it keep's it neat, fights are shorter when DPS is concentrated on one mob at a time, not several through out the encounter.</P> <P>Taemek Frozenberg 44th Berserker<BR>16th Outfitter<BR>Blood and Ice<BR>Everfrost Server<BR><BR>Enlightened Aonein Amillion ( retired )<BR>70th Stone Fist of The Celestial Fist<BR>Five Rings on Luclin Server<BR></P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>It keeps it neat if you avoid challenge. But pops and adds are counter productive to being neat and clean. Having people assist off someone besides the main tank is neat also. I have a reason to switch targets... to regain or maintain aggro on a mob that is not the main target. A scout or secondary tank does not need to switch targets until his mob is dead. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Wash-rinse-repeat style tanking is fine for long grinds in familiar areas, it's what I do too in most of the hunting. It's counter productive to fun usually (hence the numerous post about how so and so hates the grind), but it is efficient. In new areas or when exploring, in areas where you don't know when and where the mobs will pop, it becomes far less efficient. The switching I laid out was for emergency and unknown situations. Go ahead and try to tell me you haven't switched targets to get aggro from a mob before the first was dead! When did this happen? Probably in an emergency :smileywink:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As far as I can tell, you are insinuating that if I say to someone: <EM>"Hey, instead of assisting/targeting me to attack, can you use Bob the scout instead? Bob, I want you to take the casters first, the healers next, then melees, ok?"</EM> ... that they will be too stupid to figure out what I mean?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>No offense, but if someone in my group can't understand that, then I'm willing to bet that noone else in the group is going to what to stay grouped with that person for very long.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This particular tactic is only really important with lots of adds and mutliple encounters, usually it's not necessary and you will rarely need to use it (especially as a berserker, master of the AoE aggro). However, there will be times that you find yourself doing this without thinking in order to keep the group alive. I merely laid it out to rest as a tactic for general aggro control that fighters of ANY class can reference.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Chog]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> RufusDeMarko wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My question is how do you gain control of both encounters and keep all the mobs focused on you without switching targets and [Removed for Content] off the assisters.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Anarchy</DIV>

[Kaberu]

<P>Just one other thing I'd like to point out is how that particular tactic started:</P> <P><EM><STRONG>Switching Targets</STRONG>:<BR>In cases <U>where you don't have alot of AoE abilities (or they are not very efficient)</U></EM></P> <P>It's refering to other fighter classes... so it's not us zerkers that should be as concerned about it :smileywink:</P>

[ArivenGemini]

<blockquote><hr>RufusDeMarko wrote:<DIV>Hey fellow zerkers! Just have to ask something that's been bothering me lately..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Here's a scenario:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You are lead tank in a full group killing a yellow con multiple mob encounter when another multiple mob encounter that's say even or blue adds to the group.. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What tactics do you recommend for gaining control of the situation since if you don't act fast the whole group could wipe if you don't get aggro. Now in a full group (depending on the group makeup) you could take both encounters without much trouble so how do you (as the MT) take control of both encounters without causing everyone that's assisting you (implied target) to freak out by switching targets?</DIV> <hr></blockquote>When MT I want -only- the healers (or just the main heal) to stick with me... I either want all the people to drop off on my first target, or ideally stick with a main assist.. I dont want them to walk along the mobs with me as I work agro up... this is one of my methods of preventing peels onto our super nuke happy friends (like the warlocks and rangers and such).. if they all change targets with me their hate from direct damage goes up too, making it harder for me to keep my lead on everything.. Plus, if they all stick with me their damage gets spread out among the mobs as I go from one to the other and doesn't drop them as fast as if everyone just stayed on one.The main assist method works a lot more efficient for me in speed of mob removal and lack of agro problems..But generally I swap to the ads and pop off a AOE taunt (if multiples) or single taunt as well as any attacks that include hate with them and if needed a buff or two...basically throwing everyhing at it/them starting with the fridge of hate and working down to the kitchen sink of hate..

[-Aonein-]

<DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P> <HR> <P></P> <P>Kaberu wrote:</P> <P>It keeps it neat if you avoid challenge. But pops and adds are counter productive to being neat and clean. Having people assist off someone besides the main tank is neat also. I have a reason to switch targets... to regain or maintain aggro on a mob that is not the main target. A scout or secondary tank does not need to switch targets until his mob is dead. </P> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As far as I can tell, you are insinuating that if I say to someone: <EM>"Hey, instead of assisting/targeting me to attack, can you use Bob the scout instead? Bob, I want you to take the casters first, the healers next, then melees, ok?"</EM> ... that they will be too stupid to figure out what I mean?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>If a scout doesnt assist you during the course of a fight, and doesnt take agro off you, then he is a pretty lame scout, no offence, but the scouts i group with are pumping out over 200 dps, some in the range of 250 dps, now if u dont have that same mob targeted, you arent keeping its agro over the scout, thats 100% fact, and people know too well how good scouts hold up now since agility nerf.</P> <P>I personally target Healers, Casters, then Fighter class's in groups of mobs i fight for the specific reason, i want the healers burnt to the group asap, i dont want to wait for Bob to be wasting his much needed 200 - 250 DPS over there mucking about, if they get warded, its longer their alive, also notice that NPC wards mitigate damage ? Next i and the group while they /assist me, burn down the casters, because of there group buffs and debuffs they cast on us, they need to die next, then last of all, its the fighters, or Named mob. With everyone in the group assisting one person, you are concentrating all your DPS on one spot, spreading your DPS out all over a encounter by sending Bob over there, and Jane over there, and Julie you stay with me, will only make the encounter longer, making it easier for you to encounter repops or run into trouble, longer a fight takes, more power people use, more power people use, less chance of survival, especially when adds roam your way or repops hit you cause you took too long to wipe out the encounter due to not enough concentrated DPS in one spot.</P> <P>Another thing people need to understand is, the MT / MA is the leader of the group 95% of the time, your group follows you to the end of the earth, so it is your job to make sure you ethier keep pushing forward to your target, or never camp in spots where you are more then likely going to encounter adds. The MA / MT is the key to a good group, wether it be how good he plays his char, how good his gear is or how well he knows the area, its what makes or breaks groups.</P> <P>I dont switch targets for the simple reason, not everyone uses /assist Taemek, or are using Teamspeak or Ventrillo or what ever those voice chat programs are ( i dont use voice chat programs cause i hate having 6 - 20 people screaming in my ear while im trying to think ), so communication in a fight can be hard, specially when there is adds, Anarchy is our best tool for any adds that encounter your group with out switching targets, if you dont have Anarchy, next best thing is group buffs, so if i get a encounter add, i Anarchy, cause its a group AC buff, and quite a large one at that, then drop my group buffs down again, reguardless of time left on my buffs, then countine the beat down on the encounter we encountered first.</P> <P>Neat is always effcient, people know to assist the MA / MT and thats the target that gets burnt down first, followed by what he targets next and so on.</P> <P>Researching your areas where you will be tanking before going there helps alot too, reading forums doesnt hurt, and there not spoilers cause you yourself still have no idea how its all going to pan out once you really get there, but it helps show the group you are a good tank, and more likely get called for groups, even when you arent LFG :smileywink:</P> <P>Taemek Frozenberg 44th Berserker<BR>16th Outfitter<BR>Blood and Ice<BR>Everfrost Server<BR><BR>Enlightened Aonein Amillion ( retired )<BR>70th Stone Fist of The Celestial Fist<BR>Five Rings on Luclin Server</P></DIV>

[RafaelSmith]

What I like to do is make someone else the MA while i MT.  Leaves me open to do whatever I have to to keep all mobs on me.  Ill periodically cycle thru mobs eventually re-assisting the MA.  I let the MA pick the mobs to kill while groups just assist them.  If MA and myself are doing our jobs correctly there typically isnt any problems.  Sometimes if i feel the need before the current mob is dead (using 3rd person view lets me see health/power of all mobs) ill tell MA which one to pick next, etc. Even under that situation the rest of the gorup should be smart and use actuall assist macros instead of relying on implied targetting. <div></div>

[Kaberu]

Eh, Aonein, I'm not saying spread the damage all over. I'm saying concentrate it, but don't use me (the tank) as the target for assist. If I'm smart enough to figure out what mobs should die first then so is the next person. <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For berserkers and Guradians.. it's easy to get adds with a simple combat buff... other classes don't have that option. The guide was written for FIGHTERS not for Berserkers and Gaurdians in particular... at the same time what did I say about the group buff? That it is the BEST weapon for getting and maintaing aggro for Berserkers and Guardians. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That is what you are saying right? So what's with all the disputing?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[HalberdBl]

<DIV>Even though I am a serker and can get aggro w/ AoE abilties that isn't always enough if someone else aggros the mob(s), and for that I have a button that basically says "Stay on X target, I am taunting something else) and then I just go back to whatever I was killing.  When fighting groups of mobs it doesn't work so well because they die so quickly, so you have to do it really fast and the rest of the group will have to spend a couple of seconds without a target unless you have a secondary assist set up.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When I'm tanking I prefer to have someone else be the MA, but that usually isn't realistic in a pick-up group, but if you are with your guild and have TeamSpeak then its much easier.  With Teamspeak you don't have to worry about people getting confused you just stay "stay on the mender I'm taunting the adds" and if the mender dies then just ask them to assist soandso.</DIV>

[RufusDeMar]

<DIV>Did a little testing and found that using my group buffs once adds show up they pretty much focus on me for remainder of the original encounter.  If there isn't a mezzer I'm always using my blood rage/ tallon's bleeding blades combo after the initial buffing.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As far as the MA/MT thing, I've never played with a Main Assist in the group, I've never had to switch targets in a normal encounter, but that's most due to the fact that as a berserker we have AoE taunts (enrage/sunder).  I've never lost aggro to scouts in a normal encounter (but if they want to take aggro, they can if they really tried!) </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>With a berserker as a MT, multiple mob encounters are choice since that's kinda what we're geared too, since is was mentioned that group buffs add good aggro my job has been made even easier. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks for the input</DIV>