More Rage vs. Non-Rage stats

[Scarax]

Because this just won't die here are some more statistics.<BR><BR>Level 34 Berserker wearing Pristine Forged Feyiron and using Shiny Brass Halberd testing against Green ^^ Skeletal Veterans in Thundering Steppes.<BR><BR><BR>Fight Type 1 - Reckless Stance Adept I used with non-rage causing skills only.<BR><BR>Average DPS: 36.0 Average Damage Taken Per Fight: 1300 HP<BR><BR>Fight Type 2 - Reckless Stance Adept I and Focus Rage Adept I used with berserker causing skills.<BR><BR>Average DPS: 47.9 Average Damage Taken Per Fight: 720 HP<BR><BR><BR>I also always have the character HUD up and I am getting 41% haste when Focus Rage procs. This seems strange because the skill says I should only be getting 35%. I believe now that the picture of the details of the skill was copied and pasted into the other skills. There are other classes with this issue. This means you do get an increased benefit for having Adept I Focus Rage over Apprentice X Focus Rage, it's just the picture details don't show it. Also, the Rage skill DOES NOT stack with a Focus Rage. It overrides it. I went from 41% haste to 42% haste when I clicked Rage. No defensive effect whatsoever are happening in the background or the foreground. <BR><BR>If you're going to reply to this with a story about how you take more damage when you zerk, post details and statistics or don't post at all.<p>Message Edited by Scaraxes on <span class=date_text>03-02-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:55 PM</span>

[Toxa]

<DIV>rage skills? it's called berzerk.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>and those were a different mob, different zone, different level, different skills, different equipment, ad infinitum, than the instance described in my post. Without the exact same situation you cannot compare the results. It's like comparing apples to oranges. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>ever had a science class where you had to compare experiments? ya gotta have the same exact situations or the results cannot be reliably compared.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>so once again...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>just because it doesn't happen to you does not mean that the bug does not exist.</DIV>

[-Aonein-]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Scaraxes wrote:<BR> <BR>I also always have the character HUD up and I am getting 41% haste when Focus Rage procs. This seems strange because the skill says I should only be getting 37%. I believe now that the picture of the details of the skill was copied and pasted into the other skills. There are other classes with this issue. This means you do get an increased benefit for having Adept I Focus Rage over Apprentice X Focus Rage, it's just the picture details don't show it. Also, the Rage skill DOES NOT stack with a Focus Rage. It overrides it. I went from 41% haste to 42% haste when I clicked Rage. No defensive effect whatsoever are happening in the background or the foreground. <BR><BR>If you're going to reply to this with a story about how you take more damage when you zerk, post details and statistics or don't post at all. <P>Message Edited by Scaraxes on <SPAN class=date_text>03-02-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>12:58 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Reason you got 41% haste is because it's from another combat art, have a look at the description of the Berserk probability art's we get, some give us more haste then others.</P> <P>At my level which is lvl 41, im getting 47% from Tide's of War, 9% from Screaming Fury, 3% from my Ancient Slayer's Ring, giving me a total of 59% haste before Berserk. Now when i berserk once, it stack's to this total usally giving me around 35 - 46% more haste depending on the combat art that proc's the berserk. Now when i proc 35% haste ontop of the 59%, i get a total of 94% haste ( yes im using the HUD window ), when I proc a second berserk buff, in other words i have 2 berserk icon's flashing, it bumps upto 106% haste and nothing will raise it past that number, meaning at my level, my total haste % i can get is 106%. Ive even watched were i have gotten 102% from 1 berserk icon, second icon fire's and it still only bump's upto 106%, so two berserk Icon's do stack, you just dont get the full benefit from them cause your capped at a certain percent. Once i ding lvl 42 and can equip my Flowing Black Silk Sash which is 15% haste, there wont be no reason for me to try and get 2 Berserk icon's flashing cause i will be capped, but with 2 Berserk icon's flashing, im maintaining max haste for longer period's of time, instead of just a flat 10 second's, so if one berserk icon flash's and 5 second's later another fire's, im getting 15 second's of haste plus DPS benefit instead of a flat 10 second's.</P> <DIV>Reason why you are only getting 42% haste max is beyond me, something is wrong there, easiest way to test your maximum haste percentage, is bring up the /show_window mainHUD.Character screen, run around and kill mob's, when Berserk fire's, hit Rage also, for a lvl 34, you should be getting a bit more then 42% haste, you want to be looking at the attackspeed number. At your level, Rage plus 2 Berserk proc's will give you your max haste percentage that you are able to recieve.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Taemek Frozenberg 41th Berserker<BR>16th Outfitter<BR>Blood and Ice<BR>Everfrost Server<BR><BR>Enlightened Aonein Amillion ( retired )<BR>70th Stone Fist of The Celestial Fist<BR>Five Rings on Luclin Server</DIV><p>Message Edited by -Aonein- on <span class=date_text>03-03-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:36 AM</span>

[Scarax]

<DIV>Okay, here is what skills and what haste percentages I get:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Focus Rage Adept I - Gives me 41% Haste (Even though it says it should be 35%)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Rage Apprentice I - Gives me 42% Haste (It says it should be 42%)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now if I click Rage when Focus Rage has procced I do not go past 42%. If I'm reading you right then I should be. So then the question is why am I not going past 42%? Also, can this in any way be related to those who are saying they get beat down when they double zerk proc?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What we need now is someone near my level of 34 to tell us what their max haste percentage is. I'm assuming and hoping that at level 34 that 42% haste is the max haste cap. Seems wierd, but it would be the simple explanation. If that isn't it then I would be much more inclined to believe that something with the way that haste is implemented in the game is screwy and could explain a lot in how different berserkers are experiencing different things when raging.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Toxa]

<DIV>so they DO stack... just like i've been saying.</DIV>

[Scarax]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Toxaur wrote:<BR> <DIV>so they DO stack... just like i've been saying.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV> </DIV>Right now we know that they do stack for some people, but not others (namely me). We need more people to post data so we can try to figure this out. You realize of course you could do your part to help further this along since you're one of those seeminly affected by this. Or you could continue to sit on the sidelines and let others do the work for you. That's my big beef with you and Erick honestly. Lots of talk. Very little effort into explaining or helping to work out why things happen. You could impress the hell out of me and others here if you'd help us out.

[Hyf]

<DIV>Yeah, they stack, but it doesn't affect the damage you take at all, ever.</DIV>

[-Aonein-]

<DIV>Work on getting 2 Berserks to fire and then hit Rage, take a note of what your haste is with 2 Berserk's and no Rage, then 2 berserk's plus Rage.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>To be honest, i never even use Rage, i use too, but i seem to proc at least 1 Berserk enough now to not worry about it, but i got alot of my Berserk Probability's at Adept 3, which is probally why i get 2 Berserk icon's flashing alot. I cant speak from a lvl 34 view because when i was lvl 34, we didnt have the description's we get now with the code data of each combat art and we didnt have mainHUD window to refer from.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Taemek Frozenberg 41th Berserker<BR>16th Outfitter<BR>Blood and Ice<BR>Everfrost Server<BR><BR>Enlightened Aonein Amillion ( retired )<BR>70th Stone Fist of The Celestial Fist<BR>Five Rings on Luclin Server</DIV>

[Hyf]

<DIV>I get 2 berserk icons flashing a ton, too, with master I focus rage. </DIV>

[Scarax]

<DIV>Okay I got some data and I feel like we're getting somewhere.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Here are the skills I have and the haste they give:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Focus Rage Adept I: 41% (Description says it should be 35%)</DIV> <DIV>Rage Apprentice I: 42% (Description Accurate)</DIV> <DIV>Raging Strike Adept I: 41% (Description says it should be 37%)</DIV> <DIV>Vicious Blow Adept I: 42% (Description says it should be 39%)</DIV> <DIV>Balok's Furious Chant: 43% (Description says it should be 40%)</DIV> <DIV>Screaming Fury: 8% (Description accurate) (Is Stackable!)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now with all of the above skills the only one that is stackable with the others is Screaming Fury. So my max haste right now I can hope to achieve is Balok's plus Screaming Fury for 51% haste which I achieved. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now this is where I will need higher levels to help out. It appears that all zerker buffs stack their haste, but that combat abilities do not. That is to say that if you are already zerking with Balok's then using Rage isn't going to get you any increase since Balok's would already have you at 43% and Rage would be 42%. This I know is accurate since I tested it myself. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Still, I was never able to get any haste increase whatsoever from double raging. The max haste I could achieve as I said was 51% haste from Screaming Fury and Balok's. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, during testing never once was defense affected in any way. If it's happening it's happening from a skill above or below me in level. </DIV>

[Toxa]

<DIV>my haste stacks, dunno what bug you are experiencing.</DIV>

[Scarax]

Okay so then to verify, your Focus Rage haste stacks with Balok's or Raging Strike or any non-Buff skill? Anyone else?

[Amon`]

<DIV>"Rage skills? Its called berserk."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>No actually one is called Focus Rage, and the other skill he was talking about is called Rage. So he, in fact, was using the correct terminology.</DIV>

[Adewale]

His results are quite valid. He's posting actual number instead of just saying something is some way. Have you, in another post?

[doraemon]

<DIV> <P> <HR> </P> <P>At my level which is lvl 41, im getting 47% from Tide's of War, 9% from Screaming Fury, 3% from my Ancient Slayer's Ring, giving me a total of 59% haste before Berserk. Now when i berserk once, it stack's to this total usally giving me around 35 - 46% more haste depending on the combat art that proc's the berserk. Now when i proc 35% haste ontop of the 59%, i get a total of 94% haste ( yes im using the HUD window ), when I proc a second berserk buff, in other words i have 2 berserk icon's flashing, it bumps upto 106% haste and nothing will raise it past that number, meaning at my level, my total haste % i can get is 106%. Ive even watched were i have gotten 102% from 1 berserk icon, second icon fire's and it still only bump's upto 106%, so two berserk Icon's do stack, you just dont get the full benefit from them cause your capped at a certain percent. Once i ding lvl 42 and can equip my Flowing Black Silk Sash which is 15% haste, there wont be no reason for me to try and get 2 Berserk icon's flashing cause i will be capped, but with 2 Berserk icon's flashing, im maintaining max haste for longer period's of time, instead of just a flat 10 second's, so if one berserk icon flash's and 5 second's later another fire's, im getting 15 second's of haste plus DPS benefit instead of a flat 10 second's.</P> <P> <HR> </P></DIV> <P>I dont' think that's called "STACK" your normal haste is 59% then when you proc'd first zerk, your haste became 94% right? so that skill gave you 94%-59% = 35% haste effect....then you proc'd another zerk with your adept3 skill (which you mention in the other post) which give you total 106%, but this doesn't mean that it stack, it only means that your 2nd proc'd skill gave you 47% haste!.......so your 2nd zerk had cancel'd your 1st zerk already....it's NOTHING to do with your cap level..</P> <P> </P> <P>now please try this yourself! DON"T use level 37 tides of war and Screaming Fury and haste ring...so your inital haste is 0%...now test again if you can "stack" your 2 zerker icon together.</P> <P> </P>

[-Aonein-]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> doraemon22 wrote:<BR> <DIV> <P> <P>I dont' think that's called "STACK" your normal haste is 59% then when you proc'd first zerk, your haste became 94% right? so that skill gave you 94%-59% = 35% haste effect....then you proc'd another zerk with your adept3 skill (which you mention in the other post) which give you total 106%, but this doesn't mean that it stack, it only means that your 2nd proc'd skill gave you 47% haste!.......so your 2nd zerk had cancel'd your 1st zerk already....it's NOTHING to do with your cap level..</P></DIV> <P> </P> <P>now please try this yourself! DON"T use level 37 tides of war and Screaming Fury and haste ring...so your inital haste is 0%...now test again if you can "stack" your 2 zerker icon together.</P> <P> </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>No that doesnt work like that at all cause i have no skill that procs berserk and give's me 47% berserker haste, notice i also said from all my berserk abilities i get 37 - 42% <STRONG><U>max</U></STRONG>, not one skill have i got that give's me 47% berserker haste, NONE. And yes i have tested it with 2 berserk effect's alone with no combat abilite buff's for haste and they both stacked. Like i said, i have many adept 3's at my level, so the only way to work out which one's did stack is too add them up, and at the present moment, they have all stacked.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Taemek Frozenberg 41th Berserker<BR>16th Outfitter<BR>Blood and Ice<BR>Everfrost Server<BR><BR>Enlightened Aonein Amillion ( retired )<BR>70th Stone Fist of The Celestial Fist<BR>Five Rings on Luclin Server</DIV><p>Message Edited by -Aonein- on <span class=date_text>03-03-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:43 PM</span>

[-Aonein-]

<DIV>Ok i did  a bit more playing around, and it seem's that Berserk's dont stack, i know for sure that the one's that arent stacking is, Raging Strike, Vicious Blow, Whirlwind and Balok's Furious Chant. That are not stacking at all. These were the main one's i tested it on so it seem's there is a certain amount of Berserker haste you can recieve, and a certain amount of beneficial haste you can recieve from combat art's, but there is a hard cap for a total amount from the two which for me at my level is 106%. Berserk's will not cast two of themselves at all, Focus Rage at Adept I proc's almost constantly just refreshing the timer never put's up another icon. The thing i found interesting was, even though one of the Berserk icon's that were flashing was say for example, When i cast Balok's Furious Chant it's a 100% sure Berserk proc which is 40% berserker haste, i was getting 46%, now when Focus Rage fired which is a 35% haste, i got a total of 41%.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The only conclusion i can come up with after doing nothing but casting Balok's Furious Chant on myself and getting 46% haste on a constant basis, then moving to just letting Focus Rage do the berserking that the percentage number's are wrong and off about 6%, seeing as Balok's Furious Chant tell's me 40% but when it procs its 46% and Focus Rage says 35% and give's me 41%, Raging Strike says 37% and give's me 43%, Vicious Blow is saying 39% and im getting 45%. Maybe the quaility of my berserk isnt reading and coming up as a App I quaility number ?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So too conclude, Berserk haste dont stack, seem's you can only get one Berserk Haste buff percentage which it will take the highest percent and overwrite the other and i have no idea if benefical combat haste in the form of self or group buff's has a limit, only way to test it is to get a Troubador, Enchanter and buff yourself's with everything you got. I was wrong about Berserk's stacking, well i know for a fact that Berserk haste doesnt stack, but <STRONG><U>maybe</U></STRONG> the DPS increase percentage will still stack, only way to tell is to run parser's with Focus Rage and Enrage / Balok's Furious Shout, cause there about the only two Berserk porbaility buff's we got that is almost 100% sure of procing through a entire fight, but know that we have the /show_window mainHUD.Character command and the description's off the spell's we can more accruately work thing's out, and faster.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Imagine how much parsing would of had to go into knowing how much each and every Berserk effect gave and changed ? Before this mainHUD window and code data of spells came out in game, every one was under the effect that Berserker haste was one solid number, it would of been endless to parse this data because with level's come's more haste and more quaility levels in spell's and combat art's also change the haste effect also and any direct damage done by the spell's and combat art's, which make's me wonder, is that number correct also ?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Taemek Frozenberg 41th Berserker<BR>16th Outfitter<BR>Blood and Ice<BR>Everfrost Server<BR><BR>Enlightened Aonein Amillion ( retired )<BR>70th Stone Fist of The Celestial Fist<BR>Five Rings on Luclin Server</DIV><p>Message Edited by -Aonein- on <span class=date_text>03-03-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:30 PM</span>

[Andn]

<DIV>where did you get that HUD that displays haste %age?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>id like to have that for my bruiser, who will eventually have a berserker silbling.</DIV>

[Scarax]

Great data and help Aonein. That's what we need to get to the bottom of this. Here's what we know for sure so far:1. The ability descriptions are incorrect.This has been brought up repeatedly by other classes in their boards and it appears we have the same issue. The best guess currently is that the Devs copied and pasted the information from the Apprentice I version of all of the skills to all of the other ranks of that skill. This tells us that we should not ever gauge effectiveness based off of an examination of the ability, but instead should verify through skill windows, /show_window mainHUD.Character, and parsing what an ability actually does. This is very important as some people have purchased Adept III versions of spells and said there was no improvement. Were they just going off of the examination window or actual testing?2. Combat Abilities that give haste DO NOT stackAny Combat Ability will not stack with another. For instance, Focus Rage Adept I gives me 41% haste when it procs. If I am berserk from that proc and I click Balok's or Rage for example then I will only receive the haste from the one with the highest haste percentage. They will not stack. 3. Combat Buffs will stack their haste with Combat AbilitiesAny Combat Ability will stack its haste with a Combat Buff. For example, if I use Screaming Rage Apprentice I then my haste is at 8%. I can then click Balok's and if it procs then the haste effects will stack and I will be at 51% haste. I do not yet have Tides of War, but I believe this holds true for that spell as well since it's a buff. Tides of War should stack with Screaming Fury and one Combat Ability to give you a very nice haste effect.What we don't know.1. We have no idea how this relates to the reports some have submitted that profess to take significantly more damage when "double raging" than when not. What we really need and have needed since the beginning is some data from those saying they've seen this happen. Right now, in every test I've done I've seen no evidence of this whatsoever and no proof has been submitted by anyone to make me think otherwise. This is not to say that it isn't happening to them, but right now it seems very unlikely. We need those who are having this issue to tell us what skills you were using and most of all IT MUST BE REPRODUCEABLE! If you can't reproduce it then it was just a fluke. Get us some data and stats and we can figure this out, otherwise let's all just move on.<p>Message Edited by Scaraxes on <span class=date_text>03-03-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:32 AM</span>

[Toxa]

<DIV>so does Tides of War and Berzerk stack? They sure as hel.l should.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>but regardless, the ICONS still stack. which is what i have been saying all along. the HUD commands do not work on my computer for some reason so i can't get that raw info.</DIV>

[doraemon]

<DIV>tox type /show_window mainHUD.Character</DIV> <DIV>why you doesn't work because you prolly typed /show_window mainhud.character......u notice the different eh?</DIV> <DIV>type it exactly as it's:smileywink:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>and yes tod and screaming fury will stack...that's mean you will have 37%+8% as your base haste....then any haste item and zerk can stack on to it....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>anon, i doubt that the dps will stack, since the higher level zerk has alrdy cancelled out the lower level zerk....but i don't have support, just the idea how it should work.</DIV>

[-Aonein-]

<DIV>At the moment the only advantage i can see to having 2 Berserk icon's flashing, is it's like a extended timer, so instead of having 10 second's, you can have 15 second's, one has 5 seconds left and another pop's, wether it overwrite's or not, it's a back up berserk for when one wear's off. Having 2 Berserk's isnt a disadvantage to anything ethier.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Taemek Frozenberg 41th Berserker<BR>16th Outfitter<BR>Blood and Ice<BR>Everfrost Server<BR><BR>Enlightened Aonein Amillion ( retired )<BR>70th Stone Fist of The Celestial Fist<BR>Five Rings on Luclin Server</DIV>

[CherobylJ]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> doraemon22 wrote:<BR> <DIV>tox type /show_window mainHUD.Character</DIV> <DIV>why you doesn't work because you prolly typed /show_window mainhud.character......u notice the different eh?</DIV> <DIV>type it exactly as it's:smileywink:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>/sigh that explains why i couldnt get it to work again the other night....they never said Bers were smart...<BR>