Can you be my Mentor?

[-Aonein-]

<DIV>Here is a little new's i find deeply interesting :</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=pround&message.id=1506" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=pround&message.id=1506</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>One thing that come's to mind when i read this was, what was the point in making item's attuneable when people can just farm them all over again ? At lvl 50, if you become someone's Mentor, you can get xp and mob chest loot item's even if there lvl 15 providing they have xp gain turned on.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In some way's i find this to be a good idea, you can get those few quest's you may have missed out on, or you can group with friend's that are too low a level to group with you. But there wil also be way's to abuse this system, unless there planning on a way to make it not possible to do so. Abusive in the way's of Power Leveling, because the person the high level Char Mentor's will recieve a 5% xp bonus. So people will have there vitaility bonus + another 5% more from being Mentored.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>One other thing i feel when i read this, is there trying to hold of implementing a Expasion as long as they can, allowing High level character's the chance to group with low level friend's.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Taemek Frozenberg 40th Berserker<BR>16th Outfitter<BR>Blood and Ice<BR>Everfrost Server<BR><BR>Enlightened Aonein Amillion ( retired )<BR>70th Stone Fist of The Celestial Fist<BR>Five Rings on Luclin Server</DIV><p>Message Edited by -Aonein- on <span class=date_text>02-26-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:20 PM</span>

[Styk]

Then again the good thing about this patch is that it will solve the problem of items not being able to be attainded by lvl 35+ like say for instance a Sword of Thunder.. IMO its a good thing since now the Plat horders who are selling it for 2-6pp are gonna get shafted hehe and i get another chance at the sword....

[DaemonSlay]

<DIV>would be intresting</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>no doubt we'll hear the </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>"can a high lvl person be my mentor, want to power lvl up a bit!" in /ooc and /shout </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I dont really have a preferance to this new feature... <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV>good points and bad points, just like most things ;P</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>suppose it will be hnady for high level guildies to help lower lvls hunt/quest, without having alts for each level range! <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by DaemonSlayer on <span class=date_text>02-26-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:16 AM</span>

[outputrotati]

<DIV>I might be able to get robe of invoker now =/</DIV>

[Gawl128]

<DIV>Thank God!!!! Wow I have been hoping they would do this - This is perfect for the people who want to get there friends into the game, but can't help them out because of the level diferance! Now it is no longer a problem, and I can finally help me friends out instead of just imagining how fun it could be if they were strong enough to come on our raids! And its always good to go remember your roots.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I do believe the system may need to be refined alittle, but we will see when it finaly launches - other than that, its looking good SOE.</DIV>

[CherobylJ]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> -Aonein- wrote:<BR> <DIV> <DIV>One thing that come's to mind when i read this was, what was the point in making item's attuneable when people can just farm them all over again ? Message Edited by -Aonein- on <SPAN class=date_text>02-26-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>09:20 PM</SPAN><BR></DIV></DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Son of a ^&*& another loophole. The idea of attunable armor was to limit supply and create some articificial rationing; this really could be an issue if it opens up a large non-tradeskill supply of armor/weap.  I seriously hope they are thinking this through, just because someting works in COH doesnt mean it will translate well to EQ2.<BR>

[FamilyManFir]

<blockquote><hr>CherobylJoe wrote:<BLOCKQUOTE><HR>-Aonein- wrote:<DIV><DIV>One thing that come's to mind when i read this was, what was the point in making item's attuneable when people can just farm them all over again ? Message Edited by -Aonein- on <SPAN class=date_text>02-26-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>09:20 PM</SPAN></DIV></DIV><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Son of a ^&*& another loophole. The idea of attunable armor was to limit supply and create some articificial rationing; this really could be an issue if it opens up a large non-tradeskill supply of armor/weap. I seriously hope they are thinking this through, just because someting works in COH doesnt mean it will translate well to EQ2.<hr></blockquote>Hold the fort! I think that they addressed this issue:<hr>Apprentices must have their Experience Gain turned on in order to be Mentored. (The optional XP disable can't be in use.) Mentors can have this setting any way they prefer. We are sensitive to the possibility of creating a new way for people to retain arbitrary levels for the purposes of bot-farming, and don't wish to create a system that encourages it.<hr>Since Apprentices can't turn off experience, and they're gaining exp faster than they would normally, this significantly limits the window of opportunity to "farm" anything before the mobs in question gray out.Aonein, where did you get the idea that the increase in experience for Apprentices would be 5%? Maybe it'll be 2%, maybe 10%, but the post never specified. Moreover, Gallenite did say that they were going to be adjusting the exp rate during the feature's presence on Test (granted, he was talking about the Mentor's exp rate but I expect them to be watching the Apprentices' exp rate closely too).On the broader topic I love this idea! I've got lots of nice guildies that I've never grouped with because they're much higher level than I. I'd love to group with them occasionally. Once I get high enough in level I will welcome the chance to help out lower-level guildies, too.The one downside I can see is low-level chars pestering high-level chars to Mentor them. However, that's easy enough to fix: just put 'em on your Ignore list.<p>Message Edited by FamilyManFirst on <span class=date_text>02-28-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:18 PM</span>

[-Aonein-]

<DIV>Not everything is black and white Familyman.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Gallentine wrote :</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><EM>We are sensitive to the possibility of creating a new way for people to retain arbitrary levels for the purposes of bot-farming, and don't wish to create a system that encourages it.</EM></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In other word's, Yes, in it's current state there is a loop hole and Yes, people will abuse it, ethier way you look at it, a bot farmer can make a new char, lvl it to lvl ten in a few hour's not even that, then farm the game over and over.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It's not the xp bonus that bother's me reguardless of what % they add upon the live release and yes i think it is a good idea to a certain extent, what i am confused about is why they made item's attuneable, like CherobylJoe said :</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><EM>The idea of attunable armor was to limit supply and create some articificial rationing; this really could be an issue if it opens up a large non-tradeskill supply of armor/weap.</EM></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That's what it's all about, item's will once again become readily avaiable over crafting item's, what will they do then, lower price's on fuel component's for trade skiller's to compensate for the high level people farming lvl 20 zone's? Cause people will farm, people are alway's rolling alt's and some people dont, the people that dont will be able to keep helping there friend's out and the botter's will do it with the main purpose of farming.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Taemek Frozenberg 41th Berserker<BR>16th Outfitter<BR>Blood and Ice<BR>Everfrost Server<BR><BR>Enlightened Aonein Amillion ( retired )<BR>70th Stone Fist of The Celestial Fist<BR>Five Rings on Luclin Server</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Cabbagelo]

<DIV>This has just nicely created another service people can sell for RL money, which if you're a conspriacy theory kinda person, you may even say another area SOE can make money from IGE... :smileyvery-happy:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>"5 Group Mentor lvl your toon to lvl 30 for $199.99" accept all major credit cards..</DIV>

[FamilyManFir]

Aonein, I hear what you're saying, but how is this different from how the game currently works?As it is a farmer can create an alt, run it up to 10, and go out and "farm" stuff until the alt grays out his targets. Rinse and repeat. The farmer can get two accounts and do this as a team.Since the Mentor will be reduced to the power of his Apprentice and the Apprentice will be leveling faster than normal this new feature will actually be less efficient for a farmer than just using a normal account, or set of accounts.I just don't see this as some new way for a farmer to farm, so I don't expect any huge influx of farmed gear. I do expect a brief influx of Tier 2 and possibly Tier 3 gear as higher-level characters Mentor their friends and guildies but I expect that to pass.

[-Aonein-]

<DIV>Familyman do you realize what the main reason for a farmer is? It's not to supply people with item's to use or buy in the game, it's to supply people who have enough money to buy there money OFFLINE, reguardless of wether they sell the item's to a NPC vendor or via a broker, this will now make it easier for them to ethier farm the number 1 money earning spots in the game over and over, which arent alway's the high end zone's.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The mentor isnt reduced to the same power as the apprentice, he is just reduced to the same level, so if the mentor is wearing rare T5 armor, he is now wearing Rare T2 or Rare T3 armor, and if he has Adept 3 or Master I skill's / spell's, he now has the same skill's / spell's level based of the apprentice but at a T2 or T3 Adept 3 or Master I range, and do i need to tell you how many farmer's out there have Adept 3's and Master I's running around in T5 rare suit's of armor ?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Reason they dont roll a alt and level him to 10 and run him through the game is because it isnt logical to do so because they need to roll a full set of char's again, these guy's dont solo farm, they 6 box macro bot, or 2 guy's 3 box and macro bot. They also have these crazy little syndicate's where people work for a guy to do nothing but farm in game money to sell offline to place's like IGE, Ebay etc, look at Lineage 2 economy, it is run by chinese bot farmer's, a guy has maybe 5 - 10 comp's, he pay's chinese kid's less then what you would earn in a hour to sit down and play a computer game for 12 hour's a day 7 day's a week to do nothing else but farm in game material to make money to sell it offline, then the guy who own's the comp's is getting paided <STRONG><U>US</U></STRONG> dollar's in China. How do i know this, because i know Chinese people, but it's not just chinese people, and no this isnt exagerating, this is going on right now in EQ2. I watch it happen on my server in Feerrott, there is a group of people, chinese people that own the zone basically, and if you get a named mob, they train you, people who are new to the game think you cant be trained, well you cant, till someone panic's or does a PB AE attack, and now you have 10-15 add's on you. Now i have nothing against chinese people, and people from Everfrost server have reported this guy so many time's, there is even write up about him on Everfrost forum, but SoE do nothing to fix the problem, so no i dont blame the chinese people cause 9 time's out of 10, the chinese people who are doing it are trying to eat, it's a job to them, but they dont realize it kill's the enjoyment or the economy of a game cause there is none to start with for them. But back onto why it isnt logical for a bot to reroll 6 new char's, to do that, they would have to start from scratch which mean's spend money. Not a option for a farmer cause there is no point spending it when he can make it faster then starting all over again. With this new Mentoring idea all they have to do is reroll one char, group with 5 lvl 50 char's already decked out in T5 rare gear and has Adept 3 or Master I spell's and away they go.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also note what Cabbage said, another way for botter's to make good cash, Power Level poeple to lvl 50 for a charge so they can then make a profit from selling the account offline, again another way for bot farmer's to make money, power level a full account of 4 people to lvl 50 in a week or 2 and sell the account with 4 plus lvl 50 char's ready to go.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now your probally wondering why im so paranoid Familyman ? It's because ive seen this go on for year's and there seem's to be no way to stop it and it's only getting worse. Make's me sad to see these great game's that company's are producing these day's to see them go down the toilet because of bot farmer's.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Taemek Frozenberg 41th Berserker<BR>16th Outfitter<BR>Blood and Ice<BR>Everfrost Server<BR><BR>Enlightened Aonein Amillion ( retired )<BR>70th Stone Fist of The Celestial Fist<BR>Five Rings on Luclin Server</DIV><p>Message Edited by -Aonein- on <span class=date_text>03-02-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:13 AM</span>

[FamilyManFir]

I <i>think</i> I know what farming is, Aonein; as you say, it's gathering of in-game items and money to sell out-of-game for real-life money. I'm not denying that it exists nor that it's a problem. Like you I hate seeing a fun game diminished or ruined by this kind of behavior. I'm just arguing that the Mentor system, as proposed, would be much less efficient for farmers than systems that they already have.I'll grant you that a level 50 char with level 50 rare gear would Mentor down to a lower-level char with lower-level rare gear and be more powerful than a typical lower-level char. It still wouldn't be efficient for farming. If a person wanted to farm a particular tier, say tier 2, their most efficient course would be to buy 6 accounts, create 6 chars, run them up to level 19 and then <i>turn off experience</i> for those 6 chars. In the process of farming Tier 2 they could acquire rare gear for themselves or in-game money to buy rare gear for themselves, thus improving their farming effiency. Since exp is turned off they can farm Tier 2 forever.[Removed for Content] a Mentoring system they could only farm Tier 2 until their Apprentice grayed out the Tier - something that would happen extra-fast with 5 Mentors and 1 Apprentice.

[-Aonein-]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> FamilyManFirst wrote:<BR><BR>I'll grant you that a level 50 char with level 50 rare gear would Mentor down to a lower-level char with lower-level rare gear and be more powerful than a typical lower-level char. It still wouldn't be efficient for farming. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I can guarantee you wouldnt be saying that if you knew more about Guardian and Berserker Combat Art's, reguardless of wether we are lvl 20 using lvl 50 combat art's, there is a simple reason we dont get those art's till a certain level.</P> <P>I smell lots of bug's, broken skills ( again ) and lots of /bug reporting after this. All i can hope for is there isnt any of these problems when they come up with a live version, cause we are slowly getting skills and arts fixed, would be s shame to have them all broken again.</P> <P>Taemek Frozenberg 41th Berserker<BR>16th Outfitter<BR>Blood and Ice<BR>Everfrost Server<BR><BR>Enlightened Aonein Amillion ( retired )<BR>70th Stone Fist of The Celestial Fist<BR>Five Rings on Luclin Server</P> <P><BR> </P>

[FamilyManFir]

<blockquote><hr>-Aonein- wrote:I can guarantee you wouldnt be saying that if you knew more about Guardian and Berserker Combat Art's, reguardless of wether we are lvl 20 using lvl 50 combat art's, there is a simple reason we dont get those art's till a certain level.<hr></blockquote>Um, Aonein, they've already stated that, when you Mentor, you won't be able to use any Arts that a char of your effective level can't use. In fact, I read a post by a player on Test that stated that those arts "red out" (turn red and are unusable).OTOH, there <i>is</i> a bug in the current implementation that's been reported and (I believe) they're working on: you can group, cast a high-level buff, then Mentor and the buff remains. I expect that the devs will have to come up with code to strip a Mentor's buffs when they start Mentoring.

[-Aonein-]

<DIV>Just wondering, what level are you Familyman ? Reason i ask is because do you agree with a bunch of lvl 50 people coming to a newbie zone with one person in there group of the appropriate level, to farm the zone for equipment for ethier sale to vendor's, broker or to bot farm? Cause you are going to see alot of the lower end game populated by people who are way past there level range in a bid to pick up missed quest's or dropped loot a alt could use which they dont have to put no time into the alt, just play there main, farm what they need, stick it on there alt. The quest part, yes i agree with, but wait till group's of lvl 50's mentoring one person move in on your normal day to day activity hole's and pay you no respect, cause i mean, after all, they are lvl 50 right ?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You will see what i mean once it goes live, for now it *looks* like a great idea and i will admit it does look like a good idea, but depending on how they go about it will make all the difference.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Taemek Frozenberg 41th Berserker<BR>16th Outfitter<BR>Blood and Ice<BR>Everfrost Server<BR><BR>Enlightened Aonein Amillion ( retired )<BR>70th Stone Fist of The Celestial Fist<BR>Five Rings on Luclin Server</DIV>

[FamilyManFir]

FWIW, Aonein, I'm a level 20 Berzerker ATM.No, I'm not terribly happy at the idea of lots of high-level characters Mentoring down to farm loot for sale, either through the Broker or in RL. OTOH, I'm not terribly concerned about it, either. As I've said before I think that the Mentoring system, as proposed, is just not efficient for farming; they have other, more profitable means. Of course, I could be proven wrong; I'm certainly not infallible.I'm not too concerned about high-level characters Mentoring down to garner loot for alts. If they want to make the game less challenging for themselves, what do I care? It doesn't affect my gameplay. If they show me no respect because "they're level 50" I'll show them no respect in return. OTOH they may prove quite polite and willing to be helpful while they're working a zone to get what they want. I'll treat them as they treat me.I expect a bubble of players to enter the lower-level zones to finish old quests or to get loot that they've long since grayed out and really want (Berik's sword comes to mind) but I expect that bubble to pass. Given the instancing that SOE has implemented I don't expect that bubble to do much harm to my gameplay; in fact, it may do some good, by providing other instances of zones to try when an instance I'm in isn't working for me for whatever reason.Edited for grammar.<p>Message Edited by FamilyManFirst on <span class=date_text>03-02-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:17 PM</span>

[Valor]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> -Aonein- wrote:<BR> <DIV>Just wondering, what level are you Familyman ? Reason i ask is because do you agree with a bunch of lvl 50 people coming to a newbie zone with one person in there group of the appropriate level, to farm the zone for equipment for ethier sale to vendor's, broker or to bot farm? </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Recheck what's been posted by dev's. They posted you're gear will scale to your mentored level also.<BR>

[-Aonein-]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Valorin wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> -Aonein- wrote:<BR> <DIV>Just wondering, what level are you Familyman ? Reason i ask is because do you agree with a bunch of lvl 50 people coming to a newbie zone with one person in there group of the appropriate level, to farm the zone for equipment for ethier sale to vendor's, broker or to bot farm? </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Recheck what's been posted by dev's. They posted you're gear will scale to your mentored level also.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>Please read a entire thread before posting.</P> <P>Taemek Frozenberg 41th Berserker<BR>16th Outfitter<BR>Blood and Ice<BR>Everfrost Server<BR><BR>Enlightened Aonein Amillion ( retired )<BR>70th Stone Fist of The Celestial Fist<BR>Five Rings on Luclin Server</P>