What T4 Adept 3 should i get?

[Snaggletoo]

<DIV>I was lucky enough to find a Ruthenium cluster. What lvl 30 - 39 berzerker skill do you think it would be best used on? I took Balock's furiuos chant at lvl 30. Reckless stance? Tides of war? Any advice from lvl 30+'s would be appreciated.</DIV>

[Styk]

Tides of War and Relentless Battering is the best choices for you

[Snaggletoo]

<DIV>Good thoughts, as they will both still be used at lvl 50. I'm leaning towards tides of war at the moment. Anyone think another ability is better? </DIV>

[Styk]

Lets find out first the group haste increase from ToW at adept 3..... if it isnt a large increase ( at adept 1 its 46% )then i think you should adept 3 Relentless Battering.... anyone have ToW Adept3 care to post what haste+buff it gives ??

[-Aonein-]

<DIV>When i upgraded my Tide's of War to Adept 3, i got a 1% attack speed increase, but that's not what it upgrade's mostly, it also upgrade's your Offensive skill's as well. Because it's a skill you will be still using at lvl 50 and it's the last one for that line, this is probally worth doing for sure.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I didnt have the information that you can get when examining combat skill's that we get now to see the difference in App IV Relentless Battering to Adept 3, but im sure it would of been well worth it seeing it's the final of the line for that spell also, I do know for sure that when i got Relentless Battering i was doing around the same as Maul at app 3 damage wise, which was around 90-120 dmg, now with Adept 3 Relentless Battering, im doing 180-220 damage. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Greater Fury i got a 3% more chance to strike back when hit when i upgraded that from App IV, but got a nice decent peice of damage increase too. Higher chance to riposte plus more Damage make's it well worth it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>At the moment i have upgraded Tide's of War, Relentless Battering and Greater Fury all to Adept 3, I really see no point in doing the other's and have them at App IV or Adept I. Reason i dont think the other's need to go past Adept I, is because the rest get upgraded, ToW and Relentless Battering are the final upgrade's you will get for that line of spell's, Greater Fury get's one more upgrade, but not untill lvl 50, so it's worth a upgrade in my eye's.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>From my experience, these are the only three i would worry about upgrading to Adept 3 quaility between lvl 30-39, the rest will be upgraded and even then you will more then likely have to fork out a arm and a leg to ethier buy the tier 5 rare's to upgrade them, or farm for great amount of hour's to find them, if your lucky.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Taemek Frozenberg 40th Berserker<BR>16th Outfitter<BR>Blood and Ice<BR>Everfrost Server<BR><BR>Enlightened Aonein Amillion ( retired )<BR>70th Stone Fist of The Celestial Fist<BR>Five Rings on Luclin Server</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[UncleStin]

I've only found one tier 4 rare (opal) so far. I agree with the rest: Relentless battering, Tides of war, and Greater fury. I upgraded Tides of War first. At level 40, when I took it from app4 to adept3, the only noticeable changes were 1% more haste and 1 more point to the offensive skills. Until you get more than 1 rare, I would recommend upgrading either Relentless battering or Greater fury. Probably Relentless battering would be the best bet since it is an end game ability and you get to see bigger damage numbers every time you use it <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.

[LauraG]

War chant too you will use at 50

[Snaggletoo]

<DIV>Thanks everyone for the advice.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> If i upgrade relentless battering to ad3, does it improve the other effects ie reduction in target offence and AC / stun, or just the damage component? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[-Aonein-]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Snaggletooth wrote:<BR> <DIV>Thanks everyone for the advice.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> If i upgrade relentless battering to ad3, does it improve the other effects ie reduction in target offence and AC / stun, or just the damage component? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Here is something to go with, mine is adept 3 so ill put that in here :</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><U>Relentless Battering Adept 3 :</U></STRONG></DIV> <UL> <LI>Interrupts target</LI> <LI>Inflict 190 - 318 melee damage on target</LI> <LI>Decrease Slashing, Crushing and Piercing of target by 5</LI> <LI>Decrease defense by 3</LI></UL> <P><STRONG><U>Maul App 3 :</U></STRONG></P> <UL> <LI>Inflict 159 - 265 melee damage on target</LI> <LI>Decrease Slashing, Crushing and Piercing of target by 5</LI> <LI>Interupts target</LI></UL> <P>Now if this is no improvement over App 1 - Adept 3, then SoE have to get these balanced, this wont be the first skill that wont be a worthy upgrade of a rare, there is plenty other's that just arent worth it, some you would even be better of selling the rare if you had the option of upgrading spell's or combat skill's you hadnt already upgraded, that's how bad it is. Even when you look at that above, there is no improvement in decrease value from a <STRONG><U>lvl 25 app 3 spell</U></STRONG> to a <STRONG><U>lvl 39 adept 3 spell</U></STRONG>, i mean honestly, im fighting lvl 45+ mob's, how exactally is reducing the offensive skill's of these mob's by 5 and defense by 3 going to help us? at Adept 3, giving the rarity of rare's reguardless of wether they drop more frequently now due to dropping in chest's etc, but at Adept 3 quaility Relentless Battering should at least lower Offense by 9 and Defense by 30, i mean it is after all, the <STRONG><U>final</U></STRONG> in the line for this spell and it doesnt do much more then a lvl 25 spell. </P> <P>Alot of these quaility increasement's really need looking at.</P> <P>Taemek Frozenberg 40th Berserker<BR>16th Outfitter<BR>Blood and Ice<BR>Everfrost Server<BR><BR>Enlightened Aonein Amillion ( retired )<BR>70th Stone Fist of The Celestial Fist<BR>Five Rings on Luclin Server</P>

[Wolfherz]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> -Aonein- wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Snaggletooth wrote:<BR> <DIV>Thanks everyone for the advice.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> If i upgrade relentless battering to ad3, does it improve the other effects ie reduction in target offence and AC / stun, or just the damage component? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Here is something to go with, mine is adept 3 so ill put that in here :</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><U>Relentless Battering Adept 3 :</U></STRONG></DIV> <UL> <LI>Interrupts target</LI> <LI>Inflict 190 - 318 melee damage on target</LI> <LI>Decrease Slashing, Crushing and Piercing of target by 5</LI> <LI>Decrease defense by 3</LI></UL> <P><STRONG><U>Maul App 3 :</U></STRONG></P> <UL> <LI>Inflict 159 - 265 melee damage on target</LI> <LI>Decrease Slashing, Crushing and Piercing of target by 5</LI> <LI>Interupts target</LI></UL> <P>Now if this is no improvement over App 1 - Adept 3, then SoE have to get these balanced, this wont be the first skill that wont be a worthy upgrade of a rare, there is plenty other's that just arent worth it, some you would even be better of selling the rare if you had the option of upgrading spell's or combat skill's you hadnt already upgraded, that's how bad it is. Even when you look at that above, there is no improvement in decrease value from a <STRONG><U>lvl 25 app 3 spell</U></STRONG> to a <STRONG><U>lvl 39 adept 3 spell</U></STRONG>, i mean honestly, im fighting lvl 45+ mob's, how exactally is reducing the offensive skill's of these mob's by 5 and defense by 3 going to help us? at Adept 3, giving the rarity of rare's reguardless of wether they drop more frequently now due to dropping in chest's etc, but at Adept 3 quaility Relentless Battering should at least lower Offense by 9 and Defense by 30, i mean it is after all, the <STRONG><U>final</U></STRONG> in the line for this spell and it doesnt do much more then a lvl 25 spell. </P> <P>Alot of these quaility increasement's really need looking at.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>5 skill points == 1 level ... so you made a L44 NPC out of your L45 one, which is a big deal. You suggest to lower the defense by 6 levels ... that is totally over the top. I am fairly certain that these debuffs are going to stay the way they are. As for the difference 3 points of defense can make ... you can read in other threads, when fighting their big L55 group x4s many guilds buff their main </FONT>tanks with <STRONG>Aqueous Spirit</STRONG>, which gives water breathing and 3-5 increase in defense.</DIV>

[snapgor]

<DIV>Honestly I'm not impressed with any skill in the T4 range (that doesn't overwrite in T5) except for Tides of war, and I know for fact there will only be a marginal impact going from app1 to adept3 for that spel.. Marginally enough that you won't even know the difference!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I would sell the ruthenium cluster and save up for a ruby as any other spell in T4 will be upgraded.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>However, if you really wanted to go with a T4 spell and don't mind that it'll be overwritten, I'd go with the AE stun.</DIV><p>Message Edited by snapgorth on <span class=date_text>02-21-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:15 AM</span>

[Chog]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> -Aonein- wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><U>Relentless Battering Adept 3 :</U></STRONG></DIV> <UL> <LI>Interrupts target</LI> <LI>Inflict 190 - 318 melee damage on target</LI> <LI>Decrease Slashing, Crushing and Piercing of target by 5</LI> <LI>Decrease defense by 3</LI></UL> <P>Taemek Frozenberg 40th Berserker<BR>16th Outfitter<BR>Blood and Ice<BR>Everfrost Server<BR><BR>Enlightened Aonein Amillion ( retired )<BR>70th Stone Fist of The Celestial Fist<BR>Five Rings on Luclin Server</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>From looking at Relentless Battering, Adept 3 is not much of an upgrade.  This is at level 40 when examining the skill if that matters.</P> <P><STRONG><U>Relentless Battering:</U></STRONG></P> <UL> <LI>Decrease Crushing and Piercing of target by 5.</LI> <LI>Interrupts target</LI> <LI>Inflicts 173-288 melee damage on target</LI> <LI>decrease slashing of target by 5</LI> <LI>decrease defense of target by 3</LI></UL> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P><BR></P>

[-Aonein-]

<DIV>What quaility level is your Relentless Battering Chogar?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Taemek Frozenberg 40th Berserker<BR>16th Outfitter<BR>Blood and Ice<BR>Everfrost Server<BR><BR>Enlightened Aonein Amillion ( retired )<BR>70th Stone Fist of The Celestial Fist<BR>Five Rings on Luclin Server</DIV><p>Message Edited by -Aonein- on <span class=date_text>02-22-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:11 AM</span>

[Styk]

Relentless Battering first before ToW adept 3, i asked a fellow zerker last night what ToW and RB gave him at adept 3 and RB was more worth it ....

[-Aonein-]

<STRONG></STRONG><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Wolfherz wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>5 skill points == 1 level ... so you made a L44 NPC out of your L45 one, which is a big deal. You suggest to lower the defense by 6 levels ... that is totally over the top. I am fairly certain that these debuffs are going to stay the way they are. As for the difference 3 points of defense can make ... you can read in other threads, when fighting their big L55 group x4s many guilds buff their main </FONT>tanks with <STRONG>Aqueous Spirit</STRONG>, which gives water breathing and 3-5 increase in defense.</BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>AC <STRONG><U>doesnt</U></STRONG> equal Defense, Defense is a skill all on it's own, we arent talking about lowering Defense here, we are talking about lowering <STRONG><U>AC</U></STRONG>, totally different when it come's to lvl increasment value.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>EDIT : Acually yeah we are talking about Defense, lol never post on forum's at 3am, not good, but my number's were just a indication that from <STRONG><U>App 1</U></STRONG>  to  <STRONG><U>Adept 3</U></STRONG> is no quaility change beside's extra Damage dealt, if they were going to increase the quaility for Adept 3, it should at least be ( a more realistic aim here ) reduce offensive skill's by 9 and Defense by 5. That way a Master III Relentless Battering would maybe reduce Offense by 12 and Defense by 10, but we all know how rare Master III's are dont we, so it's not going to be something every man and his dog has.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And just so you know, one level doesnt make much of a difference untill u start killing thousand's of mob's, there is barely a difference on my parser, it's not even worth worrying about. If it wasnt for the Damage dealt from this spell, the low power cost and reuse timer, i most likely wouldnt use it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Taemek Frozenberg 40th Berserker<BR>16th Outfitter<BR>Blood and Ice<BR>Everfrost Server<BR><BR>Enlightened Aonein Amillion ( retired )<BR>70th Stone Fist of The Celestial Fist<BR>Five Rings on Luclin Server</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </DIV> <P>Message Edited by -Aonein- on <SPAN class=date_text>02-23-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>02:38 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by -Aonein- on <span class=date_text>02-23-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:44 AM</span>

[Chog]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> -Aonein- wrote:<BR> <DIV>What quaility level is your Relentless Battering Chogar?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Message Edited by -Aonein- on <SPAN class=date_text>02-22-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>09:11 AM</SPAN><BR></DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Sorry, did not view the boards for a few days.  Currently at work.  But I believe the skill was at App4 quality.  Might have been Adept 1, but I am leaning towards App4.<BR>

[Chog]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> -Aonein- wrote:<BR> <DIV>What quaility level is your Relentless Battering Chogar?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Message Edited by -Aonein- on <SPAN class=date_text>02-22-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>09:11 AM</SPAN><BR></DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Just checked my skill level of Relentless Battering, App1.  :smileymad:  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thought I had upgraded all of my skills, guess I missed 1 :smileysad:</DIV>

[Snaggletoo]

<DIV>Sorry for the late reply, very busy week. I have had a little bit of time to look into combat art upgrades though.</DIV> <DIV>When i got a T4 rare i thought cool, this will really make a difference to my character. However, after starting this post i have been completly underwhelmed by the difference upgrading our combat arts makes e.g. the app1 vs ad3 relentless battering!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I looked around on different sections of the forums to see what other classes were saying. It seems that casters get the best upgrades. One post mentioned a caster nuke (i read it a week ago, sorry i cant be more specific) upgraded by 100% from app1 to ad 1, and to 200% to master. The explaination for this was that casters were supposed to upgrade spells because their equipment was not so important, whilst fighters were supposed to upgrade equipment, combat arts taking a back seat. I have no personnal experience to verify this, its just what some people were saying.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Since considering this topic (post the patch which allowed us to see the stats of our combat arts), i have upgraded 2 different skills. I upgraded Reckless stance from App4 to Ad 1. And another skill (grp buff i think - again appologies for being vague, was a while ago and i was drunk). Neither actually changed the stats of the skill when i examined it!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In the case of reckless stance the defence buff was 8 at app4 and 8 at ad1. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now i dont know if these numbers are rounded ie you are not seeing a small increase because it doesnt show the exact figure. Or the skill power changes but its bugged and doesnt show the increase when you examine it. Or indeed if it was ment to be like this.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I for one would prefer the skill upgrades to make at least a noticable difference. As it is they dont really do much at all.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, if an ad1 is not going to upgrade an app4 art at all, i would like to know this before i spent the G's!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If anyone has any information on this please post it here. I would be especially interested in the difference between the lvl 50 grp / single taunts at ad1 and ad3 lvls, as many tanks bust a gut to get these (as i had been planning to).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In short, is upgrading our spells past add4/ap1 really worth it?</DIV>