High level Bezerkers...be honest

[Seraph20]

<DIV>Does this class suck?  Im starting to wonder.  We cant tank as well as paladins, gaurdians, or shadow knights.  We dont do as much damage as rouge classes, or brawler classes.  I have even heard that some rouge classes tank better then us because of high agility.  Heres a few questions Im unclear about.  Please help me out if your a high lvl zerker.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Thinm]

<DIV>I love this class.  I'm level 40, will be 41 in like 2 kills.  We are great tanks because we have great agro generating skills.  I haven't parsed since yesterday's change, but our damage output is very high.  A fellow berserker in my guild (lvl 47) is consistently the top dps on raids, ahead of the scouts.  Pre Nuke Patch, monk classes could outdamage us, but cannot hold agro nearly as well.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think you're wrong in everything you mentioned, but if you don't like the class, there's plenty of others to choose from, including the flavor of the week wizards.</DIV>

[CreativeBetaHand]

<DIV>I love my class also.. I feel I definitely made the right decision.. my brother plays a level 50 guardian and he says if he had it to pick over again he'd go monk simply because there are way too many guardians.. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Well there arent too many berserkers.. we do great damage for a tank class.. and we do our job well.. we keep agro and have some of the best ae skills in the game for a tank..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We get way more group / self attack buffs than the other tank classes which mostly get defensive buffs or heals.. and we can tank just as well..</DIV> <DIV><BR>What makes you great is how well you play your class and not which class you picked.. Might as well enjoy the class you picked and not get mad about the changes that will continue to happen as they try to balance the game.. Enjoy your role in the group/guild even if it changes from tank to dps and back.. If you want a different role then reroll a new class.. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But I find some players love their class no matter what they choose and some players reroll 5 different alts and can never pick a class.. </DIV> <DIV><BR>In these types of games there is no jack of all trades or best class to pick..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I hope that helps bud</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[knightdant]

<DIV>You tank better than Paladins and Shadowknights.</DIV>

[Mie]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Thinman wrote:<BR> <DIV>I love this class.  I'm level 40, will be 41 in like 2 kills.  <FONT color=#ff0000>We are great tanks because we have great agro generating skills</FONT>.  I haven't parsed since yesterday's change, but our damage output is very high.  A fellow berserker in my guild (lvl 47) is consistently the top dps on raids, ahead of the scouts.  Pre Nuke Patch, monk classes could outdamage us, but cannot hold agro nearly as well.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think you're wrong in everything you mentioned, but if you don't like the class, there's plenty of others to choose from, including the flavor of the week wizards.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I am 48 , I cannot hold the aggo when grouping Brusier !!!!!! Their damage like god . 2 sec a taunt , Burning all power to deal heavy damage. Brusier just standing there hit the mob without style. </P> <P>FYI , every taunt is apt3 , every style is apt1+ </P> <P>Brusier or Monk 100 percent outdamage us even without using any combat art. <BR></P>

[Styk]

Hmm ive been able to hold my own well ( agro wise ) against brusiers 3-4 lvls higher then me.... Since this last patch , at lvl 40 we can effectively buff HP,STR,ATK and group haste.... it gave us some versality in groups and extra power usage ( since we dont gotta buff every 3 min ) is a plus to our agro holding or dps giving skills ..... This patch did uz zerkers good overall.... Only thing thou is they need to make Greater Fury a 10 min buff like they said it was in patch... Strykr Destructicus41 Berserker AB Server

[Seraph20]

<DIV>Thanks for the posts guys.  Dont get me wrong, i actually love this class.  To me were the best of both worlds good damage and good defence/agro.  I just wanted to get some info before I really settle in to my charcter.  It deffinatly seems that we got better with the patch.  One more question, does bezerk state actaually give us more dps or just faster attack speed?  Is there any good programs to check dps with different weapons? thanks in advance</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Styk]

Berserk state gives both a 5% dps increase and at least a 35% haste increase

[Fundi]

<DIV>      I personally believe we can tank as well as any class in the game, but when the group wants the frickin guard or paladin to tank (due solely to those classes roles in EQ1), I can still justify my spot in the group.  Many of our buffs increase the attack speed and strength of the group, so if there is a class that deals melee damage with you, you are incresing the DPS of the group by alot, even if you yourself aren't doing the damage.  </DIV> <DIV>      The berserker class can be frustrating A LOT of the time because of misconceptions about the class, but I enjoy playing as a berserker because it's so different.</DIV>

[Odama]

Strangely on Everfrost as a Zerker whenever grouped with other tank archetypes, they look at me to hold the frontlines. Maybe it's how you are playing your role that makes the difference, the way I see it, play your role to it's best abilities and you won't fail. That's why I not only love my Zerker but I also love coming here to read the posts by the more serious players for the hints that add to my forula of keeping aggro. To answer your question, normally I am having to hold back on some of my nasty Berserker skills when a crusader is MT (Tanks [FAAR-NERFED!]ing about me stealing aggro gets old). When a Guardian is in group I usually let him decide on MT, I think they are better built to take damage but not necessarily keep Mob attention. I don't speak for all levels but that's how it is for me right now.

[Too]

<DIV>A berserker is very versitile,  can tank and tank well,  I can hold agro with any group makeup with little effort.   Our mitigation is not as good as a guardian however we do much much more damage.     Knowing when to use your buffs is the key to holding agro.   DPS wise we are right there with scouts ,  a little less on 1 mob a little more on AOE battles.   </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Raids, a berserker is a high HP - DPS class,   in a true raid you will not be the main tank,   but with many of the group x3, x4 mobs  that do crazy AOE damage.   Your HP's can keep you in the battle longer thus doing more damage.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>   </DIV>

[eqaddi]

<DIV>Well I am almost level 47 and I am beginning to bow down to the all mighty Guardian. A few weeks ago I tried a raid on DFC and got my [Removed for Content] handed to me at level 44 from Emporer Fyst. A few days ago we did a raid and a level 42 Guardian tanked the Emporer just fine and we won. My gear absolutely owns his and with the last /respec I went for all HP and defensive traits and stuff, fully buffed I only had about 200 more hit points than him.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When I tanked Fyst it was when the terror right before him was groupx2, the terror is not like this anymore so maybe that is what made the difference. But I just think it's funny that a guardian that is 4 levels lower than me can get more hit points and tank better than me even when I have better equipment.</DIV>

[Super Du]

<DIV>Har Har</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>get used to it, as we are hybrid class... you'll never be best at anything... just good at a few things.</DIV>

[Namsin]

Opinions are like ....Play whatever class you have fun playing.

[Styk]

Hmmm a 45 Zerker in our guild tanked Fyst in DFC this weekend also and did just fine.... we had 2 groups, 3 healers ( 2 templars Lvl 44 and 40 and one 39 Fury, 3 pallies ( 1 lvl 42 paladin and 2 lvl 40's ) 3 wizards ( two of them were 44 one was 39) , myself ( 42 zerker ) The tank ( 45 Zerker ) and 2 rangers... we cleaned that zone out and the cleaned out Fyst and his buddies... I never expected zerkers to be top tank or top DPS.... our AE dps is good... situational but good, we have alot more utility now due to the extension in duration in some key buffs ( ToWar, Screaming Fury , Destructive Rage are the best ones now IMO for a zerker to give to a group ) If you expected to be maintank all the time then friends you should have been a guardian... this latest patched help zerkers in more ways the people seems to notice ..... We have ALOT more to offer groups now then just a 2nd tier tank.....

[SageMarrow]

<DIV>yeah- im a bruiser and i shouldve really changed my surname to Agrothief- cause we do have a habit of tearing up stuff - and stealing aggro - i know i do constantly morso than a monk. we have like 12 different attacks at level 35.. and yes that attacks on totally seperate timers that all do upwards of 150+dmg - now keep in mind im just giving an insight to the issue etc nothing more= but yeah- </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>so with your buffs combined with our own personal haste-= our already crazy dps - gets ALOT higher cause of the attack speed.. we got about 25% just from various skills available to us- so combine our own with say a beserkers and an enchanter if in grp at the time you are looking at an almost 20+35+35= 90% speed boost on attacks that are already on a 1.4 sec timer for 31-93 damage at level 50- (only one i know for sure).. (all rough estimates BTW)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> so yeah it gets pretty sick pretty fast- but if you think back- a monk on eq1 with an ench haste and the good ole FBS sash seemed to have an almost Quadruple attack look about them and thier attacks so the dps gets out of hand - without question- so more than likely your own buff is making your agro holding ability the problem lol</DIV>

[Styk]

Sage its great that brusiers can put out that type of dps but i hope it isnt let out that yall can put out that much dmg because the way the trend is going .... your dps might be "corrected" ( i mean broken ) next.... im kinda confused on your haste figures since by myself i can give a group 56% haste .... ( ToW is 47% and Screaming Fury is 9% ) also ive not had many problems holding agro against brusiers either my lvl or 1-2 lvls higher.... Maybe it case by case basis but when i tank i only go for agro ... no dpsStrykr Destructicus43 Berserker

[-Aonein-]

<DIV>Alot of Brusier's and Monk's seem hell bent on using there Taunt abilitie's when there not playing a MT role as well. One thing i hate when im MT is when someone else finish's off Crushing Anvil or Sky Cleave cause the final HO is a Taunt ability, it should be MT's job to finish off those HO's. Also, if u see Flame's coming out there head and you haven't clicked a Taunt ability, then you know why there stealing agro.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Taemek Frozenberg 40th Berserker<BR>16th Outfitter<BR>Blood and Ice<BR>Everfrost Server<BR><BR>Enlightened Aonein Amillion ( retired )<BR>70th Stone Fist of The Celestial Fist<BR>Five Rings on Luclin Server</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Taik]

<DIV>as a 48 zerker i have never once had problems holding agro in a group.  i even find it easy to pull agro fom players when an add happens because we get 4 taunts.  The berserker was not ment to be a front line tank in raids like that gaurdian, but we can hold our own in any group.  as far as dps goes i out damage most scout classes and monk/bruiser consistantly.  you just have to have a good weapon.  in addition our aoe abilities are great.  that on top of our buffs now with the change we are great for any group be it as tank or extra dps.  i can buff a group for 1200 hp plus 67% haste 30str 10 to attack skills.... you just can not beat that for group buffing.  imho zerker's are one of the best classes in the game if you know how to play it.</DIV>

[The-Preach]

<DIV>I played a Shadowknight for a little while, and then decided to try out a warrior class. Picked berserker due to it's possibility to have high DPS. (Had no idea wether or not it really did at the time.) At this point, I don't even log into my Shadowknight, unless I need him to act as a mule. The berserker class is a lot of fun to play with, and far as damage output goes. Against a group of mobs, not many classes can really compare. (Well, mage classes can now, but that's really as it should be.)</DIV><p>Message Edited by The-Preacher on <span class=date_text>02-24-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:36 AM</span>

[Super Du]

<DIV>i'm hungry</DIV>

[Zakane]

<blockquote><hr>Mielx wrote:<BR><BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Thinman wrote:<BR><DIV>I love this class. I'm level 40, will be 41 in like 2 kills. <FONT color=#ff0000>We are great tanks because we have great agro generating skills</FONT>. I haven't parsed since yesterday's change, but our damage output is very high. A fellow berserker in my guild (lvl 47) is consistently the top dps on raids, ahead of the scouts. Pre Nuke Patch, monk classes could outdamage us, but cannot hold agro nearly as well.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>I think you're wrong in everything you mentioned, but if you don't like the class, there's plenty of others to choose from, including the flavor of the week wizards.</DIV><BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I am 48 , I cannot hold the aggo when grouping Brusier !!!!!! Their damage like god . 2 sec a taunt , Burning all power to deal heavy damage. Brusier just standing there hit the mob without style. </P><P>FYI , every taunt is apt3 , every style is apt1+ </P><P>Brusier or Monk 100 percent outdamage us even without using any combat art. <BR></P><hr></blockquote>Well I find that Bruisers and Monks, having my orignal main being a monk. Anyway I am a bezerker now and love it. I find that I can outdamge a Monk or Bruiser IF we are fighting a group of mobs. With out area and group hits we can do some massive damge. BUT a Monk and Bruiser does more damge to one target then I can ever do and Most the time I am out damge by them when facing mobs one at a time.

[xrippe]

<DIV>I play a monk, I do aggree that zerkers are great against multiple targets.  I have never had to worry about losing aggro.  We get good taunts, single and AE.  Once our taunts go off we can keep aggro from damage output alone.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yenyang Angrydragon</DIV> <DIV>34 Ogre Monk</DIV> <DIV>Kithicore</DIV>

[fur]

<DIV>One thing people fail to realise is that berserks buffs are one of the best in the game for fellow melees, man i LOVE gettin the chance to go zerk myself without havin to roll a zerk,so imho zerks provides solid tanking good dps and awesome aoe damage and they make me kick [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] better as well, no complaints here =)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Skull Kithicor</DIV>

[rivj0r]

A zerker is the safest DPS class.If a wizard hits too hard and gets agro, how long do they live?If a brigand gets the attention, Estimated time to death?If a zerker becomes the primary. Lots of time (relatively speaking) for the healer to change their selection or cover two targets while the chosen MT tries to regain centralised control.And besides, zerkers are cool. Especially 3 foot gnome zerkers! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[SageMarrow]

<DIV>im a little late on this reply stryker - lost track of the post - </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>but yeah most if not all tanks have a bad habit of taunting when not in MT mode - i know i can taunt sometimes on accident just in spamming arts - as well as my taunts have a haste buff built within it that i do like to use when dps'ing late in fights.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>and yeah the good ole nerf bat is coming for all the fighter classes lol - so that scouts always out dps us- high level beserkers out dps most monks though without question.</DIV>

[AlienR]

<DIV>My take on zerkers is that we kind of sway in the balance between bruisers and guardians in terms of defense and dps but will suffer the most in terms of any dps nerf.  The reason zerkers are able to parse reasonably high dps numbers is fundamental for any player in any game that can use aoe attacks.  If I can hit 5+ mobs with an average damage attack, I'll smoke your single target high damage attacks all day long....which for the most part, bruisers/monks and crusader classes excel at.  I've been in exp groups (after the nuke upgrades) with a wizard 2 levels higher than me and parsed near even numbers when killing groups of 3 giants at a time in PF.   When dealing with a single mob, bruisers/monks reign supreme for figthers in dps...no question.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This  issue I'm having with our class is being balanced between the guardians and bruisers of the world.  Let me explain.  Just recently the fire toad in LS was nerfed on spawn rate and now frequently spawns at lvl 42 which greys out at 49. On occassion the toad spawns at lvl 43 and I'll take a shot at it.  When I win, I have roughly 10% health left and no power.  I'm lvl 49 and my gear is decent with rubicite/ebon crafted armor an fbss and an aegis of alacrity shield that adds 20% haste (killer shield).  Self buffed I'm over 5k hps and 7k ac.  Now, Mr. lvl 47 guardian comes along one day and tags the lvl 43 toad before I do so I watch, and much to my surprise he defeats the toad and has near full health upon winning.  Yes he killed it much slower than I did, but he was never in danger of dieing.  His gear was fulginate and he didn't even use a shield!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The flip side to that discussion is bruisers.  Until recently I felt a zerker could hold ground with a bruiser in single target dps solely based on our proc buffs since I have anarchy at master 1...but this isn't true.  Even with a proc weapon, a proc bow equipped that procs on my auto melee, adept 3 blood rage and master anarchy ....proc heaven...I don't keep up.  But I found out why and this concerns me because it's more than just bruisers do more dps.  My guild recently had two royal great flails drop in the same day and fighter classes were all having fun comparing notes on how much damage the flail listed for them.  At 49 my listed dmg was roughly over 380 on the high side for the flail, which is slightly more than what a 50 sk, 50 pally and 50 guardian saw in the item examine window.  The 50 bruiser on the other hand saw over 470 max dmg for the same weapon....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Is that a bug?  I asked him to run down some stats with me and his strength was equivalent to mine, his crushing skill was equivalent with all the other tanking classes yet his damage was roughly 100 pts higher?  I think his 2 hand attack rating was about 10 pts higher.  Anyone else noticing this?  I thought zerkers were supposed to be 2 hand gurus?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Right now, my role in raids is either buffing the MT group for HPs and haste/ offense or dps buffing the scout group with haste and procs.  Yes my dps is decent, but no I don't tank...and reasonably so with guardians mitigating damage so much better than I do.</DIV>

[Dashel]

<blockquote><hr>AlienRok wrote:<DIV> At 49 my listed dmg was roughly over 380 on the high side for the flail, which is slightly more than what a 50 sk, 50 pally and 50 guardian saw in the item examine window. The 50 bruiser on the other hand saw over 470 max dmg for the same weapon....</div><DIV> </div><DIV>Is that a bug? </div><hr></blockquote>Interesting, my thought is that he's got a full level on you. Lets say 1 point of crush = 10 max damage with that weapon, if so you're gonna be at 430 when you hit 50. That sounds right to me. Regardless, your number is going to go up and you're already above the other tanks. Should be interesting to see how close you get to that 50 bruiser.I'd also note the examine window is sketchy if you ask me.

[AlienR]

<DIV>Getting close to 50...I'll repost with new info once I do.  Ya I wonder that myself, maybe the one level is the difference but the monk should be equal to the bruiser right?  I mean dang...I'd be upset as a monk.  Oh...forgot to mention that in my original post which is pretty important, but a 50 monk in our guild listed 5 pts higher than me...not the 470 that the bruiser saw.  Anyway, like I said I'll repost soon.</DIV><p>Message Edited by AlienRok on <span class=date_text>03-14-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:11 AM</span>

[einar4]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Styker wrote:<BR>Berserk state gives both a 5% dps increase and at least a 35% haste increase<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P> I think it gives your attackers a 5% dps increase, and you a 35% attack speed increase. </P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[AlienR]

<DIV>Ya something very screwy is going on here.  Last night I grouped up with the bruiser and inspected him...the flail now shows his dmg at 410 instead of 480 like the other night.  We buffed the group just like before and it didn't change.  Then I asked him to link it and the damage is a poultry 343 for me now instead of 380.  No I didn't ding 50 last night...need 18% tonight and I'll try it again.  Question is...did something change on the royal flail?  It's a very slow weapon...I don't think it can afford a damage nerf with a delay of 3.8 secs.</DIV>

[AlienR]

Dinged 50 last night, the flail shows 350 max dmg for me.  It only shows 334 for a 50 sk, which is 16 below a zerker....so why does a bruiser get 60 more pts than us?

[Padi]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> AlienRok wrote:<BR>Dinged 50 last night, the flail shows 350 max dmg for me.  It only shows 334 for a 50 sk, which is 16 below a zerker....so why does a bruiser get 60 more pts than us? <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>It's the way the game is balanced, brawlers have the highest melee dps, and they go about it by doing more damage with the same weapons.  Warriors are 2nd in melee damage, crusaders are 3rd but do have some weapon buffs to offset this.  Scouts are 4th and also use poisons to make up for the loss of damage.  Healers are next and mages are at the bottom.  It's just how the game is balanced, warriors have better defense, brawlers have better offense.

[einar4]

<DIV> </DIV> <DIV> Define "tank" - Berserkirs hold agro and soak damage second only to Guardians.  They also put out a moderate amount of damage as well. </DIV>

[Styk]

2nd to Guards on soak dmg i doubt that ( pallies can give Guards a good run for their money in dmg tanking department ) Agro generation thou .... we surpass Guards in that department... im at 47 Now but i still use my lvl 30 Training AR Taunt? wanna know why? 10 sec lower recast then any other AE Taunt in the game... Thou Sunder now gives more hate AE wise then training AE, you cant use it in raids because of the Knockdown portion of it... training AE you still can... Berserker IMO = Numero Uno Agro Generator