Im a happy wizard and a sad zerk...

[Thoo]

When the nerfpatch was released that completly destroyed our DPS (and more importantly, our ability to zerk), I decided I was going to put my level 26 zerk on hold.I started playing a wizard, and I am now level 25. Just yesterday, I actually logged in with my zerk (got 100% adventure vitality, that should explain how much I've played the zerk) and decided to go out and hunt.I can tell you, I hated playing the zerk. Wiz is fun, you have nothing to worry about, stand back and nuke. As a tank, if you loose agro, you just cost everyone in the group a few % debt.I lost agro twice in about two hours, both times it resulted in a wipe.Basically, zerks have been nerfed really bad. I cant keep agro reliably and my DPS is ... well.. we shouldn't even call it damage.I know some people think that its good that you need to "work" to keep agro, but I hate it.I want one buff that I can cast that will make me hold agro. Remove our DPS, fine. Doesn't matter in a well balanced group, you can have two or three DPS'ers that can take care of dealing damage, but casting spells all the time just to hold agro while not doing any damage? Heck, I was casting half the amount of spells with my zerk that I do with my wiz.If I had a buff, like in the good old days, that would keep agro, I would go back to playing my zerk. DPS is not somthing I care about at all with my zerk, but holding agro is.Until that happens though, playing a zerk is too much work, so I'll keep nuking with my wiz instead.I do accept the fact that there might be easy ways to hold agro that I dont know about as I haven't played the zerk for a while.

[Davish_Darkwolf]

<DIV>2 completely different classes. Zerker is close combat, Wizard is Star Wars target and destroy type.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Dont have any difficulty holding aggro here, in fact i never had problems holding aggro. Sometimes in big pulls a </DIV> <DIV>mob can turn to a healer or caster, but i just hit 1 or 2 taunting skills and its back onto me again.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Maybe this will change in higher levels, but until 34 im having lots of fun.</DIV>

[Dashel]

I never have much trouble holding agro when XPing, but for the bigger fights I'll use Hold the Line. I dare anyone to get agro off me when I'm using that heh.Hold the Line Class BerserkerLevel 15Skill TacticsRecast 1.0sRecovery 0.5sRecast 30.0sConc 0Notes:Immobilizes the fighter and each successful hit generates hate for the entire encounter. Cancel hold the line at any time to remove the effect.<p>Message Edited by Dashel on <span class=date_text>02-14-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:06 AM</span>

[Thoo]

<blockquote><hr>Davish_Darkwolf wrote:<DIV>2 completely different classes. Zerker is close combat, Wizard is Star Wars target and destroy type.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>Dont have any difficulty holding aggro here, in fact i never had problems holding aggro. Sometimes in big pulls a </DIV><DIV>mob can turn to a healer or caster, but i just hit 1 or 2 taunting skills and its back onto me again.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>Maybe this will change in higher levels, but until 34 im having lots of fun.</DIV><hr></blockquote>I can add that I am 26, and there were two level 30ish wizards with some mighty powerful spells in the group.Also, I think its good that you are enjoying the class. I think I allowed the nerf to really get to me, its hard to enjoy the class if you do that... so I don't doubt for a second that the reason I'm not enjoying zerk that much is because of myself.EDIT: Hold the line is a good idea, never thought of using that skill... is it still useful at level 26?<p>Message Edited by Thooor on <span class=date_text>02-14-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:07 AM</span>

[YellowSpi]

Tanks have posted using HTL up through thier 40s. It's a very usefull taunt on multi mob fights. I generally find though that using my normal AE Taunts + AE DMG is all I need to hold agro. If you can't hold agro, either you or your group is doing something dramatically wrong.

[Styk]

Thoor how often you use bloodrage and what do you have it up at? ( adept 1 or better? ) make a hotkey for it telling casters that you are casting it....It helps alot Also it is hard for zerkers till their mid 30's at times.... gotta stick with it... agro wont be the issue.... its AE dps im worried about....

[ArivenGemini]

<blockquote><hr>Thooor wrote:When the nerfpatch was released that completly destroyed our DPS (and more importantly, our ability to zerk), I decided I was going to put my level 26 zerk on hold.I started playing a wizard, and I am now level 25. Just yesterday, I actually logged in with my zerk (got 100% adventure vitality, that should explain how much I've played the zerk) and decided to go out and hunt.I can tell you, I hated playing the zerk. Wiz is fun, you have nothing to worry about, stand back and nuke. As a tank, if you loose agro, you just cost everyone in the group a few % debt.I lost agro twice in about two hours, both times it resulted in a wipe.Basically, zerks have been nerfed really bad. I cant keep agro reliably and my DPS is ... well.. we shouldn't even call it damage.I know some people think that its good that you need to "work" to keep agro, but I hate it.I want one buff that I can cast that will make me hold agro. Remove our DPS, fine. Doesn't matter in a well balanced group, you can have two or three DPS'ers that can take care of dealing damage, but casting spells all the time just to hold agro while not doing any damage? Heck, I was casting half the amount of spells with my zerk that I do with my wiz.If I had a buff, like in the good old days, that would keep agro, I would go back to playing my zerk. DPS is not somthing I care about at all with my zerk, but holding agro is.Until that happens though, playing a zerk is too much work, so I'll keep nuking with my wiz instead.I do accept the fact that there might be easy ways to hold agro that I dont know about as I haven't played the zerk for a while.<hr></blockquote>As long as everyone in the group knows their role and knows when not to nuke you should have no problems holding agro. The only times I have had issues holding agro was my first encounter with the owlbears in nek forest... and a couple encounters with them let me figure out how to deal with them appropriately.With decent upgrades on your skills and the right ones up, you can manage agro with panache. And the recent agility nerf really helped me, since I get hit more often I serk more often... giving me even more rock solid control of agro in the encounter. You have to remember that your group and personal buffs are hate generators too.. and if you fire them off after the encounter starts, you will help manage the mobs.But.. you also have to have your DPS and healers in the group understand the hate system too... they can NOT nuke, major debuff, major heal, etc right off the bat.. they HAVE to let you generate hate with your taunts and buffs... if they dont play the game too, then they are the ones at fault for agro loss plain and simple. Its not a race to the end, nor a competition to see who can peel the mob off the tank.. its a coordinated system designed to take out the mobs with the minimum of power used and maximum of efficiency.One thing I do as well is to make sure the dps knows to stay on my first target til its dead, while I "walk" through the rest of the encounter getting some taunts off.. toss in a solo HO or two at the start too... playing a monk and a serk lets me look at it from a couple angles (as well as a sorc, a cleric and a swashbuckler)... and serker is the easiest to hold agro with for me of the two fighters..

[theplayer0670]

<DIV>"I want one buff that I can cast that will make me hold agro. Remove our DPS, fine"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>"good that you need to "work" to keep agro, but I hate it."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Worldofwarcraft.com</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Man i am glad you are not a tank in my group</DIV><p>Message Edited by theplayer0670 on <span class=date_text>02-14-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:49 PM</span>

[PerinSto]

<DIV>I don't even know what to say to this except bye.  Have fun playing your wizard.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am a 26 berserker and never have a problem holding agro.  </DIV>

[Padi]

<DIV>The early 20's, you are pretty much a warrior still, you only have a few zerker skills, but the higher you go, the more noticable you change.  Once you get blood rage, your DPS starts to really shine in AE fights, then you add berserker barrage, stunning rage (correct name?), berserker assault, stomp, fury and more and your AE DPS gets pretty amazing.  At 33, I go into AE fights and almost always out DPS everyone, doing 70-105 DPS per AE encounter (with shield up and soldier stance most the time).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Forget bloodlust, forget blood rage.  Neither are very good when you are a tank, the defensive hit is not worth it, but even without those abilities, we have a lot going for us and our AE powers are awesome.</DIV>

[Thoo]

<blockquote><hr>theplayer0670 wrote:<DIV>"I want one buff that I can cast that will make me hold agro. Remove our DPS, fine"</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>"good that you need to "work" to keep agro, but I hate it."</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>Worldofwarcraft.com</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>Man i am glad you are not a tank in my group</DIV><p>Message Edited by theplayer0670 on <span class=date_text>02-14-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:49 PM</span><hr></blockquote>umm... thanks for letting me know that you wont group with my zerk that isnt going to be played ever again really... I'll make sure to not group with you while not playing my zerk... ...or was there actually a point to your post that im missing?

[Thoo]

<blockquote><hr>PerinStone wrote:<DIV>I don't even know what to say to this except bye.</DIV><hr></blockquote>ok.. bye to you too... take care now...

[Hoe]

I don't lose aggro very often, but when I do, it usually comes back after casting two taunts, if that doesn't work rescue always works. My damage is fine.

[reakshav]

<DIV>I'm able to hold agro pretty well, and i never use hold the line, I hate being rooted in one place, its a pain to click on it when you need to manuveur the mobs around.  One spell I found that helps with agro management is the buff Havoc.  I lose agro very rarely and its usually only to a wizard.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>29 Zerker here.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Maccus]

I hardly lose aggro at all when I am fighting, if it looks like I might lose aggro or there will be adds, I make sure I use hold the line. Once that is activated I have yet to lose aggro on anything.I don't have a problem with DPS I can lay down damage with the best of them even when I am using a sword and shield. Now if you were relying on Bloodlust before to hold aggro and that is the nerf you are speaking of I guess you haven't really seen the other abilites we have that can get us massive hate.I hate to be brash here but to me it sounds like you just want to have it easy not work and just stand around nuking things. Seems kind of lazy to me, and maybe a wizard is what you should be.<p>Message Edited by Maccus on <span class=date_text>02-15-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:11 PM</span>

[Kaberu]

<DIV>If losing aggro once gets your group wiped (and every time you lose aggro) then maybe you're fighting something a little too strong. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Not happy with damage? Well from a melee standpoint against one mob, Rangers and assassins can do more (cause with me tanking, they get free access to their back), Monks and Bruisers do more damage than me and usually more damage than the scouts overall. Other scouts don't do to bad, but I usually have an easier time keeping close to them. Then again, the bard subclasses were helping me get higher DPS scores with their buffs. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Against a group of mobs, only a monk comes close to matching me and the gap gets farther and farther with the more mobs we face. Going through three mobs, they have an easier time keeping up a stream of high DPS that the scout can't maintain as well due to longer recast times on their abilities.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I was hunting with a guild group and due to me having a DPS parser up, we got in a bit of competition... The pareser started when I started fighting and stopped when we got group experience.. that means the entire encouter was polled regardless of whether it was a single ^^ group mob or a group of mobs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Against a single nightblood, the ranger won almost everytime.. or at least could win everytime if he was trying and careful. If the mob glitched a bit on the pull and ran past me instead of running up to me just to turn around and face me (and the ranger) it messed up his timing and facing and he couldn't garuntee a win. The monk was almost always in first or second and only sometimes third. I usually floated around in third or fourth depending on how well the troubadour did. I tried dumping a couple times, not too much, but it was possible for me to maintain a second/third place and even win a couple of times.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Against a group of three or more nightbloods or nightblood/lamia groups I won every time and strangley the mystic (who was not the main healer) was nearly always second... he was playing in our DPS games :smileywink: The monk and ranger were battling it out for third and sometimes managed a second.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Top DPS for our bout of XPing for the rest of the group was around 120. My top DPS? 155.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Doing moderate to high damage against a single, and high damage against groups doesn't seem very nerfed to me. Especially at 40.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you want one buff to hold aggro.. try Rallying Cry, Anarchy.. whatever buff you have along those lines... (they are 30 second duration group defense spells). It's not always garunteed but it's far more aggro than you'll get from any other single spell. Truthfully, if you aren't up for working to hold aggro, tanking probably isn't your calling. It sounds like you just wanna sit back and click a button every now and then... you will always have times were you will need to fight for aggro. There will always be times were your groups survivability means building up so much aggro that it gives your other damage dealers free reign over the mana dumping they need to unload the fury of hell on the mobs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>By the way, level 26 essentially means you have 6 levels out of 30 for bing a berserker. You don't get to be a berserker until 20, it caps out at 50 (for now). So you are 6 levels into a Berserker and you think they are too weak? Sorry but after you hit 35 (the midpoint) and actually have a decent set of REAL berserker abilities, I think you'll have a better idea of what Berserkers are really made of.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <P>Message Edited by Kaberu on <SPAN class=date_text>02-15-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>08:16 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Kaberu on <span class=date_text>02-15-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:18 PM</span>

[TunaBoo]

I use HTL at 49.. and will at 50. But it sounds like you aren't cut out to be a tank. Its a lot of responsibility, don't want group to die? Don't lose aggro. Zerks have to kind of sorta taunt now.. compare to a guardian fighting life or death to hold aggro, I don't feel too bad for you.

[Thoo]

<blockquote><hr>TunaBoo wrote:I use HTL at 49.. and will at 50. But it sounds like you aren't cut out to be a tank. Its a lot of responsibility, don't want group to die? Don't lose aggro. Zerks have to kind of sorta taunt now.. compare to a guardian fighting life or death to hold aggro, I don't feel too bad for you.<hr></blockquote>Thing is, last time I went out with my zerk was the last time I am EVER going out adventuring with my zerk (unless something unexpected happens).I dont really like being a tank. Pre-nerf, we were tanks who could hold agro fairly easily, and could then focus on damage.Now we have to stand and focus on holding agro (as many people have pointed out this might not be too hard, but still).I like dealing damage. Before the nerf, a zerk suited me fairly well. After the nerf, it is really obvious that I wasnt supposed to be a zerk the way SOE intends zerks to be.I think its beautiful when I use my ball of fire with my wizard and hit the mob for over 450 damage (and my wiz is only level 25 too).The downside obviously being that I can take like two hits before dying.Anyways, wasn't looking for people to feel sorry for me, dont know how you could even get that impression from my first post.

[Kaberu]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Thooor wrote:<BR><BR>Anyways, wasn't looking for people to feel sorry for me, dont know how you could even get that impression from my first post.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Could it be how you portrayed Berserkers as badly nerfed... in the Berserker forums?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think the ones replying to you (myself included) feel you think Berserkers as a class aren't up to snuff when we feel that it's more of your play style preference that is causing the problem. It's nothing wrong with you, heck I wouldn't have fun with some of the other classes and I certainly would feel impaired by them because I can't play the way I like playing. Perhaps even give me the feeling of class inadequecy?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It's all perspective... Berserker's don't work for you, no biggie... for the ones it does work for we get a bit defensive when we don't have the same problems you are feeling, especially when ya say its a class problem which some of the more grizzled zerkers might take as a personal offense. Of course, those are the zerkers that chew up raid mobs like candy then chase down their kin for desserts :smileysurprised:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Thoo]

<blockquote><hr>Kaberu wrote:<BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Thooor wrote:Anyways, wasn't looking for people to feel sorry for me, dont know how you could even get that impression from my first post.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV>Could it be how you portrayed Berserkers as badly nerfed... in the Berserker forums?</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>I think the ones replying to you (myself included) feel you think Berserkers as a class aren't up to snuff when we feel that it's more of your play style preference that is causing the problem. It's nothing wrong with you, heck I wouldn't have fun with some of the other classes and I certainly would feel impaired by them because I can't play the way I like playing. Perhaps even give me the feeling of class inadequecy?</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>It's all perspective... Berserker's don't work for you, no biggie... for the ones it does work for we get a bit defensive when we don't have the same problems you are feeling, especially when ya say its a class problem which some of the more grizzled zerkers might take as a personal offense. Of course, those are the zerkers that chew up raid mobs like candy then chase down their kin for desserts :smileysurprised:</DIV><DIV> </DIV><hr></blockquote>Never thought of it like that, but I must say that I was nodding while reading through your post, well put <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Before the "nerf", zerks suited me somewhat. I always thought that the reason I couldn't play zerk afterwards was because I got really annoyed at the patch and wouldn't give it a fair chance, but now I think you're right.. its just not for me. Wiz suits my playstyle really well, and I'm actually looking forward to the upcoming changes in the class.Thanks, wish I would have seen it this way sooner... <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><p>Message Edited by Thooor on <span class=date_text>02-16-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:02 AM</span>

[YellowSpi]

Zerker = Straight up ScotchWizard = CoronaBoth will get you drunk, we just prefer the hard stuff and not the beach lounger.

[virgofool]

<blockquote><hr>theplayer0670 wrote:<DIV>"I want one buff that I can cast that will make me hold agro. Remove our DPS, fine"</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>"good that you need to "work" to keep agro, but I hate it."</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>Worldofwarcraft.com</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>Man i am glad you are not a tank in my group</DIV><p>Message Edited by theplayer0670 on <span class=date_text>02-14-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:49 PM</span><hr></blockquote>[Removed for Content]...good one! <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> My Zerk isn't "uber" yet, but in all my battles, the ONLY time I ever lost hate was when I tried to take a screenshot during combat. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Even then, it only took one taunt to get it back...Wizzie probably had to change his shorts though.

[THX-11]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> PerinStone wrote:<BR> <DIV>I don't even know what to say to this except bye.  Have fun playing your wizard.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am a 26 berserker and never have a problem holding agro.  </DIV> <P> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00> There are 10 types of people in the world, those that understand binary, and those that don't. - <BR></FONT><BR> <HR> </P></BLOCKQUOTE>01001100 01101111 01101100 00100000 01101100 01101001 01101011 01100101 00100000 01110100 01101000 01100101 00100000 01100010 01101001 01101110 01100001 01110010 01111001 00100000 01110001 01110101 01101111 01110100 01100101 00100001 <BR>

[Eadric]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> THX-1138 wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> PerinStone wrote:<BR> <DIV>I don't even know what to say to this except bye.  Have fun playing your wizard.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am a 26 berserker and never have a problem holding agro.  </DIV> <P> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00> There are 10 types of people in the world, those that understand binary, and those that don't. - <BR></FONT><BR> <HR> <P></P></BLOCKQUOTE><FONT color=#66ff00>01001100 01101111 01101100 00100000 01101100 01101001 01101011 01100101 00100000 01110100 01101000 01100101 00100000 01100010 01101001 01101110 01100001 01110010 01111001 00100000 01110001 01110101 01101111 01110100 01100101 00100001 </FONT><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Translated: "Lol like the binary quote!"<BR>