Dual-Wield vs 1 hand sword & Shield ... Preference?

[Kiddyc]

<DIV>Looking for some advice on which to use.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm a lvl 24 bezerker.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1220 Health</DIV> <DIV>817 Power</DIV> <DIV>1176 AC</DIV> <DIV>86 STR</DIV> <DIV>54 AGI</DIV> <DIV>51 STA</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Currently, I'm dual wielding two Giant Pick-Axes:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><U><EM>Giant Pick-Axe  <STRONG>X2</STRONG></EM></U></DIV> <DIV>+2 AGI, +7 STR, +15 Health, +17 Power</DIV> <DIV>8-25 Damage, 1.5 sec. delay</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I've just finished the Sword of Thunder Quest.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><U><EM>Sword of Thunder</EM></U></DIV> <DIV>+2 INT, +2 AGI, +5 STR, +4 WIS, +15 Health, +25 Power</DIV> <DIV>16-49 damage, 1.7 sec. delay</DIV> <DIV>Thunderstrike</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Which do you prefer?  The dual-wield or the Sword of Thunder and a good shield?  Does losing 9 strength matter?  I've never used a shield.  Does using one help enough to offset the dps of dual wielding?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks ahead of time!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Muradin</DIV> <DIV>24 Bezerker</DIV> <DIV>Kithicor</DIV>

[Darkd]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kiddycop wrote:<BR> <DIV><U><EM>Sword of Thunder</EM></U></DIV> <DIV>+2 INT, +2 AGI, +5 STR, +4 WIS, +15 Health, +25 Power</DIV> <DIV>16-49 damage, 1.7 sec. delay</DIV> <DIV>Thunderstrike</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>Would have loved to have this sword as a younger zerker.  I am a 2hd guy, less riposte and seems blood rage procs more often with a 2hder.<BR>

[Cozumel]

Personally, I've NEVER seen my shield do squat as a zerker, so even as the MT, I use either my DW's or my bad-[Removed for Content] 2hander...Looking at the stats on those weapons, the DPS looks "similar" (speed vs. damage), however the stat bufs you get from wielding bother DW's is better, by FAR... 4 agi and 14 str versus 2agi 5str.Stick with the DW's (and/or use a parse and see for yourself)-- I think you'll see you take less damage with the higher AGI and probably do more damage with the extra strength. -- Cozumel

[Tych]

<DIV>Giant Pick Ax: ((8+25)/2)/1.5 = 11 DPS  Dual wielding gives you 22 DPS</DIV> <DIV>Sword of Thunder: ((16+49)/2)/1.7 = 19.1 DPS</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In your case, use the Sword of Thunder, probably even if you're not the main tank.  It's a very good weapon.  Get a tower shield to boost your AC by another 240 or so, and make up the difference in stat buffs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My anecdotal evidence on the effectiveness of shields...  Several weeks ago, at level 23 or 24 I was working on the Lightstone quest, killing a bunch of named orcs.  One of them was a general, level 20^^ group encounter (green to me), which I attempted to solo.  In two attempts wielding my Steel Maul (2 hander) I reduced him to a sliver of life, but he killed me.  I tried again with a one hander + shield and beat him with a comfortable cushion of HP remaining.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Still, I normally use a 2-hander, except against very tough opponents.    </DIV>

[Too]

<DIV>I switch back and forth from using shield and duelwielding.   </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I would say 90% of the time I duel wield Yak and PGT(love the power proc).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The other 10% I use a shield -  Usually only for boss mob encounters or if my group is overloaded with DPS and short on healing. </DIV>

[Diabol]

<DIV>I won't DW as MT, only when I can fight from flank/rear.  As MT its either my SBH or  1h/shield depending on the mobs.. possibly at yellow, definitely if over, I get out the shield, things go much more smoothly.  In RE it can be the difference between needing a 2nd healer or not.   </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[CherobylJ]

<DIV>You'd be crazy to not use a sword/shield while MT as you get into your mid-late 20s.  There is a dramatic difference when tanking 2up arrow group mobs.</DIV>

[Diabol]

<DIV>Being the berserker forum... 'crazy' might not hold the contrast you were striving for there. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[CherobylJ]

<DIV>mwahaha so true!  we are all a little "crazy" here :smileyvery-happy:</DIV>

[pen'cilli]

<DIV>I am mid 20s (24) and in my group of 3 (meself, SK, and Inq) I always dual wield and am the MT.  So far in Nek forest we have had lil problems.  Granted we are slow and cautious, soly cause they don't let me charge in.  But I dual wield and don't even own a shield and hold agro the entire time.  Even when we drag our wizard with us.  I don't look at damage so can't tell you what my dps is.  My job as MT is to hold agro so that is what I do.  Preference goes to what you like.   Maybe I am not the best person to post as I can't give stats as I play as a RPr.  So it is my preferce to dual wield.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[PacO]

<DIV><FONT color=#99ff66>Why choose one over the other?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#99ff66>Carry multiple weapon: 1 2h and 2 DW for DPS and 1h and shield for being a MT.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#99ff66>When I'm grouped with an tank that has better AC than I, I normally go DPS mode.  If I'm with a chanter, I use different set of power (no AE) or without one.  When I have the most AC in the group, often teh case even with same lvl guardian, I go 1H and Shield.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#99ff66></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#99ff66>Greatest strength of being a zerker is diversity and being able to adapt to the make up of your group.</FONT><FONT color=#99ff66></DIV></FONT>

[Davish_Darkwolf]

<DIV>The beauty of the Berserker is its versatility, i use 1handed and shield when MT (casters will thank ya), 2h when not tanking and switch between both when im soloing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Dual Wield are nice, but 2h is my personal choice when im not using a shield (believe me, there isnt that much difference between the two).</DIV>

[Kiddyc]

<DIV>Thanks for the info, all!</DIV><p>Message Edited by Kiddycop on <span class=date_text>02-01-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:35 PM</span>

[Jyste]

<DIV>i prefer to use dual wield. could't kill green^^ with 2h but can kill them no trouble with a dual wield.</DIV> <DIV>lvl 20 beserker at the mo</DIV>

[Renzai]

<DIV>I find that DW has a slightly better damage output than 2handers, but I guess it's all relative to the type of weapons you use.</DIV>

[Toxa]

<DIV>i used to say "2-handed is the best no matter what" til i realized recently how much a shield DRASTICALLY improves tanking ability. And, with a good 1-hander, i do about 90% of the damage i do with a 2-hander.... WELL worth the 10% less damage to tank like 75% better.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It is so good, in fact, that i am level 34, and i have pre-bought 1-handed weapons for up to level 48.  And i am looking to see which shields are best, to pre-buy those for up to level 48-50.</DIV>

[Super Du]

<DIV>Is there any doubt that a better weapon produces better dps?</DIV> <DIV>didn't think so... then why do you compare dps from a good weapon to dps with a crappy one?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That's like saying i tank better in medium tier 5 armor then heavy tier 1.</DIV> <DIV>There for I shell only wear medium armor.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You go buddy <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> have your funs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Super Du on <span class=date_text>02-03-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:57 AM</span>

[Thinm]

<DIV>I prefer dual wield or 2h weapon. I'm a berserker, not a guardian wanna-be.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'll take the more ripostes from DW, that just means I'll go berserk more.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Toxa]

<DIV>But you will tank far better with a shield and get about 90% of normal DPS with a 1-hander.  dont know about you, but i tank 99% of the time.</DIV>

[eqaddi]

<DIV>I prefer 2h weapons as a zerker, which reminds me, my Treebane is blue to me so could anyone suggest a decent upgrade?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyways, when I use a 1h and shield my aggro sux [Removed for Content]. I have trouble holding aggro due to my decreased damage, when this happens a healer ends up healing another party member or themselves, personally in a single group situation the difference in damage taken vs the aggro loss isn't worth it. But that is just in my experience.</DIV>

[Toxa]

<DIV>if you are losing aggro, as a berzerker, with a 1-hander, then something is seriously wrong.  Your 1-handed weapon probably sucks.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>what level are you? can't suggest a weapon if i dont know what level.</DIV>

[eqaddi]

<DIV>Well i did mention that a Treebane is blue to me, but I am 43, sorry. I have a very decent 1-hander and I never have any problems with aggro except when i use 1h and shield.</DIV>

[Toxa]

<DIV>i never have problems maintaining aggro, and i only taunt once per fight usually.  And using a 1-hander + shield.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Swine Fiend Battle Axe is a very good 1-hand weapon, and just orange at 43.  I don't know about 2-handers at that level.</DIV>

[VonStein]

<DIV>Question...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Has anyone parsed out Parrying and Riposte on dual weps???</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Do they get some bonus???</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Toxa]

<DIV>no but i seriously doubt it.</DIV>

[Wolfherz]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> VonSteinan wrote:<BR> <DIV>Question...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Has anyone parsed out Parrying and Riposte on dual weps???</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Do they get some bonus???</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> The stated intent during beta was that no weapons style has an adventage when it comes to Parry and Riposte and the likes. I think the same holds true for procs. Now I am not sure how well this is implemented tho.

[VonStein]

<DIV>I was just wondering because I have a high agil Zerker... and when I dual I seem (anecdotaly) to parry more....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now... based on the fact that you get less enemy Ripostes against you when using a 2Hand wep...</DIV> <DIV>and the sheilds give you a "block" not mitigation....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It would seem you should be able to parry more with 2 weapons.... just like in real life...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just have no idea if this is actualy implemented or not.... was wondering if anyone had ever parsed it....</DIV>

[Toxa]

<DIV>the shield factor is also defense... so a 455 shield factor = a huge defense bonus. extremely noticeable.</DIV>

[VonStein]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Toxaur wrote:<BR> <DIV>the shield factor is also defense... so a 455 shield factor = a huge defense bonus. extremely noticeable.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>Just ta let ya know....</P> <P>21 zerker</P> <P>21 Guard</P> <P>22 Bruiser</P> <P>22 SK</P> <P>22 Inquisitor.....</P> <P> </P> <P>Sheilds do NOT add to mitigation, as stated by Moorgard.... but do give a "block".... which they factored into AC.... just as the rest of the defense factors are now....</P> <P>I was just wondering if anyone had parsed Parry block rates between 2Hand, Dual, and Sword and Board....</P>

[Toxa]

<DIV>never said mitigation</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>said defense</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>equip a shield and watch your defense jump up</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>and that defense increase is extremely noticeable in how well i tank.</DIV>

[VonStein]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Toxaur wrote:<BR> <DIV>never said mitigation</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>said defense</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>equip a shield and watch your defense jump up</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>and that defense increase is extremely noticeable in how well i tank.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Ok.... what "defense"???  Defense skill??? its NOT affected by a shield...</P> <P>My understanding of shield is that it uses your shield abils (kite and such) and type of shield to create "blocks"...</P> <P>It also artifically adds some number to your ac stat.... but this number is deceptive at best.... as it has nothing to do with mitigation..... but adds another type of avoidance.</P> <P> </P> <P>Problem here, is that this "number" that is added to AC has nothing to do with reality, its some approximation of how much damage a shield is going to allow you to avoid....</P> <P>Hmmm... may try this.... take my shield off my guardian, and parse the damage... then add the shield back and take off armor of approx. the same AC number.... see which is more effective </P> <P>at protecting me.... bet its the shield...<BR></P>

[Toxa]

<DIV>not defense skill. i said nothing of skill. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>AC = defense</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>i said i noticed a huge difference in tanking ability with the shield, and it's definitely not from blocking.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>maybe it's not as big a difference on guardians, but then again, i said nothing about guardians. I am a berzerker, this is the berzerker board, and it makes a huge difference in tanking when i use a shield. and i don't even block as often as they miss or parry.  their missing is also based on your total DEF anyways as i understand it. As well as damage reduction.</DIV>

[VonStein]

<DIV>I see... so your premise is that Guards are different from Zerks in the basics of the game...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>and althouth we have played other classes, we should not bring what we see form them into this Zerker board.....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You need to get your verbage correct..... shields give you the abil to block..... without it you can't....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Defense is a SKILL!!!! listed on your skilll window....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Shields give you an Add to AC, which has nothing to do with armor..... but with the ability to block... ie....avooidance....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My origional question was....do multiple weps add to your ability to parry....</DIV>

[Toxa]

<DIV>as you see in the persona window, it is defense, not AC</DIV>

[Styk]

once again you are wrong , its AC not defence

[Toxa]

<DIV>my bad, it used to say def before patch. but there's no need to be rude about it.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Toxaur on <span class=date_text>02-05-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:51 AM</span>

[Ishnar]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> VonSteinan wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You need to get your verbage correct..... shields give you the abil to block..... without it you can't....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Defense is a SKILL!!!! listed on your skilll window....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Shields give you an Add to AC, which has nothing to do with armor..... but with the ability to block... ie....avooidance....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>shields do not give the ability to block; besides, block would mean mitigate in game mechanics. There is no new ability that you need a shield for.   Armor blocks incomming hits.  Shield ratings are added to your characters avoidance, not mitigation. according to moorgard, but both increase your AC.</P> <P>The new AC rating is supposed to combine mitigation and avoidance.  Whether it is accurate or not is a matter of some debate.</P> <P>ishnar</P>

[Styk]

Ishnar Von is correct shields do give the ability to block and yes its a different type of mitigation, that is why it is factored into the defense equation.... try and see if you can block without a shield <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[pasht]

My 2cent <img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />I usualy carry 5-8 Weapons and a Tower shield with me, so Im able to switch whenever I want or I think its nessecary.I use 1h+Shield if I have to tank one or more "hard" mobs, cause the tower shield I own atm adds me 455 AC. AC is IMHO, no matter how its calculated I dont care about, the number that shows you how well you can tank. The higher AC you got, the better you can tank.If there are no such mobs, I use DW or sometimes 2h for fun, thats mostly on blues and sometimes whites (even yellow or orange if I got a good setup), depends on the groupsetup.For me its always the situation that lets me choose what to use.Greets<p>Message Edited by pashtuk on <span class=date_text>02-07-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:06 AM</span>

[eqaddi]

<DIV>I am at work right now and I don't spend too much time in the skills window while in game but I do recall NOT seeing a skill for block. I have also watched the text box while using a shield and see nothing that indicates that I blocked a hit. I see ripostes, dodges, and parrys though. I have used a shield with my wife as the healer to try and find this huge difference in healing damage while using a shield and she doesn't notice anything but the MOB staying alive for a lot longer so she actually has to heal more.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Does anyone have any hard data to prove you take less damage with a shield equipped? Logic would say that you would take less damage but I truly don't see a difference.</DIV>

[Toxa]

<DIV>eqaddix</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>i see "...but you block!" several times per fight. even without that, i notice the huge jump in AC just in damage taken.  Yes i have parsed it too.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>and your 1-hander must really suck if you're doing much less damage than with a 2-hander.  I do about 90% damage with my Bloodstain Hammer or my new The Moonlight Mace as i do with my Shiny Brass Halberd.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>you can't use a [FaarNerfed!]ty 1-hand weapon and shield, then say 1-handers + shields suck. And if you have a nice shield and you never see a blocked hit, you must be bugged or doing something horribly wrong.</DIV>

[Diabol]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> eqaddixx wrote:<BR> <DIV>I am at work right now and I don't spend too much time in the skills window while in game but I do recall NOT seeing a skill for block. I have also watched the text box while using a shield and see nothing that indicates that I blocked a hit. I see ripostes, dodges, and parrys though. I have used a shield with my wife as the healer to try and find this huge difference in healing damage while using a shield and she doesn't notice anything but the MOB staying alive for a lot longer so she actually has to heal more.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Does anyone have any hard data to prove you take less damage with a shield equipped? Logic would say that you would take less damage but I truly don't see a difference.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> If you are duoing your probably better off fighting mobs that are either low con or solo, and using DW or 2H because of course it's going to take longer when you're the only one doing damage.  That doesn't change the fact that you take a lot less damage when you use a shield.   I should mention that you need to be as diligent with your shield as you are with your weapons... it should be white or better con and tower.   Killing the mob is up to the rest of the group, keeping it [Removed for Content] off at you and pointed away from them is up to you.  Sure we can do good damage as berserkers, but a good MT considers that secondary.   When i'm tanking orange and red ++ that shield saves so much damage I dont need to parse to see it, it's the extra lift that gets me up to thier level defensively.  Last night, at 34 I took a group with a single lev 30 healer and no one else over 31 through RE down into level 39 boars & gobs with no problems, no way that would have been possible without a shield. 

[Toxa]

<DIV>well said Diaboliq, and that's exactly the same thing i did, possible with a shield and skilled players.</DIV>

[eqaddi]

<DIV>All of my gear at level 44 is orange and yellow including my shield and 1hs, please don't make this a gear thing. I rarely duo, most of the time it's full groups or trio, like I said I don't see any messages that indicate I block a fight. Can anyone besides the uber Toxaur confirm a block message? Like I said the damage I give up with a shield equipped isn't worth the healing difference which isn't even noticable. But that is just my experience. Here is a link to my gear, not sure if anything will show up since I don't pay for that extra crap, <A href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/player.vm?characterId=117959106" target=_blank>http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/player.vm?characterId=117959106</A>. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Is there any way to parse damage taken? Khalysta's doesn't have a total damage taken column. This way I can parse an entire day with a shield and an entire day without.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Oh and btw how do I do something wrong in getting a block? All you do is equip the stupid thing, wow that takes a genious. There is no block skill is there? </DIV>

[Diabol]

<DIV>I'm not trying to make it a gear thing, I pointed it out because you lose a lot of effectiveness stepping down to a kite shield and/or as it ages into blue and green con, enough that it becomes less noticible fast.  Your stuff doesn't show up, but no matter, if you say its an orange con tower shield I believe you.  All you have to do to get it to 'work' is have it facing your enemy, just like defensive skills such as parry and evade it doesn't work against attackers beside or behind you.  Yes, it should say 'but you block' or something very close to that in the hit line.  You should be able to parse damage taken, <A href="http://www.combatstats.com/" target=_blank>http://www.combatstats.com/</A> is a pretty good log parser, i'm not sure how it compares to Khalysta's.  If you find it's not helping you then possibly your fighting mobs that arent doing much physical damage or maybe the upper 40's mobs are so buffed now shields don't matter for anyone in that level range... worst case you're bugged in some way but I would tend to think not.</DIV>

[Toxa]

<DIV>there ARE orange con shields and 1-handers that suck you know... con isn't everything. it's gotta have good stats too. Bloodstain hammer and moonlight mace are some of the best 1-handers for their level. my best friend parsed it and said i was consistently doing about 90% of the damage with a 1-hander, as i did with an SBH, which is the best 2-hander for that level.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>and i still have some of the highest DPS in my groups, using a 1-hander and shield. So i don't know what your problem is. It may or may not be a gear thing, but i am curious... </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>what 1-hander and what shield do you use and what level are you again? and what 2-hander?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by Toxaur on <span class=date_text>02-07-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:23 AM</span>

[eqaddi]

<DIV>I will parse this week. I am level 44, and up until a few days ago I was using Treebane, now I have Ebon Executioner's Axe. My shield is a Clay Guardian Shield I believe, I could get better but if I don't notice a difference what's the point on wasting my coin on somethingI won't use. My 1hs I forgot name when i get home I will post it, but the delay is like 1.5 and the damage is 40-100+ somewhere around that. I don't use it so don't know stats. I will try and track down some high end 1h weapons and shields though. I have the haste ring and FBSS also. Thanks for everyone's input I guess I just need to test things out again for myself.</DIV>

[Toxa]

<DIV>what's the point of parsing then?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>it's like comparing apples to oranges since it sounds like your 2h is far better quality. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you used a 1-hander and shield of compareable quality, you'd notice a big difference. That's like me using an SBH for a 2-hander, then comparing it to a 1-hander and shield that were good.... 5 levels ago.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>ya gotta upgrade your equipment constantly when you level up or you notice a big difference in effectiveness.</DIV>

[eqaddi]

<DIV>How are these for 1 hand and shield?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><IMG src="http://jlbimages.net/images/connir/EQ2_000165.jpg"></DIV><p>Message Edited by eqaddixx on <span class=date_text>02-08-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:20 PM</span>

[EnigmaticCipher]

<DIV>Level 30.  I've played around with 1h/shield, duel wield, and 2h.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>At this time I've found duel wield to be the best.  I thought for sure the huge increase in AC from the shield would be largely noticed, but I don't really see it affecting my tanking much, if any vs. duel wield.  It seems, the more times I can hit the enemy, the less likely they hit me.  I have no stats or data to back it up, but it's just how feels and can be seen by how much mana per fight the cleric is using.  We play together all the time so its very noticeable to him when he's working more per fight because of me switching to a 1h/shield.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2h so far just seems way too slow and again the fact is I'm not hitting the mobs as quickly, so it seems they are hitting me more.</DIV>

[Diabol]

<DIV> <DIV>Dual wield is the worst possible combination for MT.  Your extra hits preventing damage makes no sense, that would mean with 3 assassins in my group mobs would be overwhelmed by hits and never swing at me.  All you do with DW is increase the riposte damage you take, lose your blocking ability, and do an extra bit of damage that isnt your responsiblity anyway.  Use DW when you can attack from behind... ie theres not a best configuration, there are best configurations for given situations.  2H is a better head on choice when your damage is more important than your defense, but your still being hit.  Choosing not to use a shield when your MT in a group with sufficient damage dealers is just negligent, you might as well take off a couple pieces of armor too.  An extra 5-10 dps in a group doing a combined 250dps is unnoticeable.  </DIV></DIV>

[Diabol]

<DIV>That looks like a good pair to me, eq.   Tried the parser yet?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Wolfmon]

<BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Looks like a great setup for sword and board but am I the only one that noticed you can't even use the hammer yet? Not sure you'll be able to get an accurate parse off that ;p</P></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Personally at 33 I use my shield on anything that is yellow ^^ and higher and the SBH on everything else including some yellow ^^'s, it all depends on the situation. I have been told by my healers that they can tell a big difference between using and not using a shield.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> I almost never DW as I seem to take way more dmg. There is a post from Moorgard on this to take a look at too if interested <A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=chars&message.id=5584#M5584" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=chars&message.id=5584#M5584</A></DIV>

[eqaddi]

<DIV>Yah I am close to using the hammer so I will parse at 45.</DIV>

[Toxa]

<DIV>i'm sure you will notice a jump in DPS with a decent 1h weapon like the hammer when you are able to use it. when you are able to use it, i would say that combo is good, yes.</DIV>

[VonStein]

<DIV>OK..... did some parsing and research today...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>23 Zerker.... </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2- hander      Enemy Swings: 76    Hits:47   Parrys:14   Misses:15</DIV> <DIV>Dual                                         83            56               16                11</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>OK... well within the bounds of chance..... pretty darn consistant.....now...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sword and Pristine Ash</DIV> <DIV>Tower Shield  Enemy swings:71   Hits:47  Parrys:10   Blocks:2   Misses 12        couldn't believe this... 2 Blocks?? ran next 5 fights....</DIV> <DIV>                                                  66          39              12              2                13       doh.... 2 blocks again???? HUH???</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Notice the VERY consistant results of the last two runs....</DIV> <DIV>Parry does NOT seem to be reliant on weapon..... but whats up with the Block rate????</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Soooo.... I also happen to have a 23 Guardian.... </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ran the same test with him.....</DIV> <DIV>Sword and sheild    swings: 69  Hits: 45   Parrys: 5  Blocks: 8  Misses: 11</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I need to go run him a bit with a different weapon set up.... but based on this very limited data set.... it doesn't look like a shield is a good bet for a zerker....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[VonStein]

<DIV>OK.... 2 more runs with my Zerker... results were consistant....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Then I logged off....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>came back an hour later and symptoms had changed.... </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now, not only was my Zerker blocking at a much higher rate than earlier... but my Gaurdian was also Parrying at a much higher rate....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Same chars, same equip, same critters....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Something is a bit strange, and streaky... here.... ( can you say lotto????... hmmmm)</DIV>

[Resst]

<DIV>lvl 42 zerker, when i tank i always use a shield and 1hander.  never done any kind of damage logging but i know the healers notice a difference.  it does seem that you proc much more often with 1 handers too, when DW i attack 5-6 times to once with my 1hander and proc less it seems.  </DIV>

[Toxa]

<DIV>i block alot. always.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>and healers notice a big difference in using a shield and not using one.</DIV>