My fellow zerkers Please teach me how to hold aggro better!

[HPott]

<DIV>Hello guys. Today was a really bad day for me. I never felt so usless. I am a 27 berserk and have  most of  my skills at apt4-adept1. I mostly grp with my guild and the  guys  i grp with are around 2-3 lvls under me so i never had a  hard time  holding aggro. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My problem is not holding aggro witha  single  mob but when there is a  grp of them togather. With a single  mob nothing can take  him off me. I grp with a  lvl 35 wizard and he could not take aggro off me when it was just one mob; however today i grp with some guys i met  in varsoon. One was a  lvl 29 ranger, and lvl 28 assasin.  We camped one of the rooms that had the grp glomes  in it. They came in grps of  2, 3, and 4. I had the  hardest time keeping aggro the  one  i was attacking would not change targets but the others would eather start attacking the ranger or the assasin <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. I'm not talking one or 2 fights here this went on and on. I felt  like  i was usless. I could  just hear them sending tells saying how gimped i am <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyway this is  how i start my fight. </DIV> <DIV>1. I range taunt with anger</DIV> <DIV>2. i grp taunt with enrage</DIV> <DIV>3. i grp buff with havoc</DIV> <DIV>then fight starts with maul, wound.</DIV> <DIV>4. AE attack</DIV> <DIV>5. anger</DIV> <DIV>6.bloodlust</DIV> <DIV>7.enrage</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>i loose aggro around 4-6 <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> could someone  help please? Thanx</DIV>

[Chanos]

The ranger and/or assassin were attacking your target or did they take another target?/Cathul

[sceptre155]

<DIV>29 berserker here</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I don't think its you, I think agro is broken. The last time I played in RoV pulling groups of mobs was rediculous.  IT seemed that no matter what i did about 15 seconds into the fight the mobs would randomly target other group members. Now if all of them attacked one single target I'd say that he was AoE'in or something similar. But it was multiple targets, which leads me to believe the agro table was reset and the mobs attack whoever was the closest.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I could be wrong.. but thats what i witnessed time and time again and when i made comments on it, that i was feeling bad for not doing my job the group replied, " Don't worry about it, the guardian that you replaced had the same problem."  So it's not us, it's everyone by the looks.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I was firing off every AoE i had along with blood rage.  Either A, I suck or dont understand how to hold group agro, or B, something needs to be adjusted.  Because if you loose group agro your SoL for another 15 seconds for your AoE taunt to refresh, and then you better hope it works.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Padi]

<DIV>I've fought in RoV quite a bit and never had such problems.  The only person that might ever draw agro is some healers after a while into the fight, but not often at all.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Your problem is the 2 scouts you had.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Fix:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Say something like this, "Please assist me using an assist macro.  If you don't know how to set one up, ask me."</DIV> <DIV>"Please assist on all fights, even group fights."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If they continue, booting them from group will solve the problem.</DIV>

[-Aonein-]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Padien wrote:<BR> <DIV>I've fought in RoV quite a bit and never had such problems.  The only person that might ever draw agro is some healers after a while into the fight, but not often at all.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Your problem is the 2 scouts you had.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Fix:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Say something like this, "Please assist me using an assist macro.  If you don't know how to set one up, ask me."</DIV> <DIV>"Please assist on all fights, even group fights."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If they continue, booting them from group will solve the problem.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Exactally, every group i build i kindly ask people to not target me for a target, i ask them to make a hot button and put in it /assist Taemek, they cant go wrong then. All they gotta do is click the button and bang instant target, now just click attack, but now with the 3 line macro system u can even set it to attack for you !</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Reason i do this is because i swap targets sometimes if i see some mobs taking too much spell damage from casters and i slip them a single taunt to make sure i wont lose them, so if my group has me targeted for a target, when i change, they change with me, but if they have the acual mob i want them to kill targeted, then its all good they will stay on that one till its dead, and i can play my tricky games.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You can tell the people who assist, look at what mob there looking at. If there not looking at the mob you are attacking, you know there not assisting.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Set it and forget it ! Thats how simple it really is :smileywink:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Taemek Frozenberg 32nd Berserker<BR>10th Outfitter<BR>Leader of Justice Bringers<BR>Everfrost Server<BR><BR>Aonein Amillion 26th Monk ( retired )<BR>17th outfitter<BR>Everfrost Server<BR><BR>Enlightened Aonein Amillion ( retired )<BR>70th Stone Fist of The Celestial Fist<BR>Five Rings on Luclin Server<BR><BR>"We are the two halves of the Flowing Circle, the light and the dark. If either grows too weak or too strong, the circle collapses on itself. Here, I will draw a Flowing Circle in the sand for you. Meditate upon the dual nature of our order and ourselves as you practice Kitten Swims Upstream. Perhaps, if you learn something from your meditations, Brother Tenshin will teach the kitten to become a tiger."</DIV> <P>Message Edited by -Aonein- on <SPAN class=date_text>01-19-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>02:28 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by -Aonein- on <span class=date_text>01-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:29 AM</span>

[sceptre155]

<DIV>So you guys have had no group agro issues at all?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Chanos]

<blockquote><hr>sceptre155 wrote:<DIV>So you guys have had no group agro issues at all?</DIV><DIV> </DIV><hr></blockquote>Not so far.../Cathul

[-Aonein-]

<DIV>I honestly have had no trouble with any sort of agro, i can ask a assassin to try as hard as he can to take it from me and he cant. Im not bragging here, im simple saying this wasnt your fault, if the assassin and ranger were taking agro, and the caster wasnt, then that speaks for itself.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Taemek Frozenberg 32nd Berserker<BR>10th Outfitter<BR>Leader of Justice Bringers<BR>Everfrost Server<BR><BR>Aonein Amillion 26th Monk ( retired )<BR>17th outfitter<BR>Everfrost Server<BR><BR>Enlightened Aonein Amillion ( retired )<BR>70th Stone Fist of The Celestial Fist<BR>Five Rings on Luclin Server<BR><BR>"We are the two halves of the Flowing Circle, the light and the dark. If either grows too weak or too strong, the circle collapses on itself. Here, I will draw a Flowing Circle in the sand for you. Meditate upon the dual nature of our order and ourselves as you practice Kitten Swims Upstream. Perhaps, if you learn something from your meditations, Brother Tenshin will teach the kitten to become a tiger."</DIV>

[kel]

<DIV>did you upgrade you spells? that makes a huge diffrence really, and you need to make sure that berserk pops in aswell, also a huge aggro catcher</DIV>

[sceptre155]

<DIV>Single mobs has never been a problem holding agro.  The only time I run into problems is once in awhile is groups of mobs 3-4 +</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The order I pull is,</DIV> <DIV>if its a group encounter and we have no mezzer then i Bloodlust before pulling. I also fire off Havoc on my way back to the group.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1, Arrow for distance if needed otherwise straight to</DIV> <DIV>2, Anger</DIV> <DIV>3, Enrage</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>4, All my AoE's</DIV> <DIV>5. Havoc</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>repeat</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[YellowSpi]

I don't know if Hold the Line is usefull still at your level. At 26 I still use it quite a bit and never have issues with group mobs w/ agro.But I haven't fought past T3 so might not be relavent.<p>Message Edited by YellowSpinE on <span class=date_text>01-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:21 AM</span>

[Diabol]

<DIV>battle chant and battle tactics make really good taunts too, but if people aren't assisting no amount of taunt is going to work.  If your healer gets a little aggro toss stand firm on them, that will raise your hate, help thier defense and help your chances to berserk.  Also, raging strike and vicious blow are generating berserk state a decent bit now, im seeing it pretty regularly, so dont neglect using them.. berserk state still pisses the mobs off pretty nicely.</DIV>

[Diabol]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> YellowSpinE wrote:<BR>I don't know if Hold the Line is usefull still at your level. At 26 I still use it quite a bit and never have issues with group mobs w/ agro.<BR><BR>But I haven't fought past T3 so might not be relavent. <P>Message Edited by YellowSpinE on <SPAN class=date_text>01-18-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>11:21 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> Its still a staple for me at 29, especially with more than 3 mobs, works great... honestly i wish it had like a 1 min timer rather than like 15 <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[reakshav]

<DIV>Yeah depends on the group, I've been having a hard time holding agro lately-- 26 Zerker now.  I totally nix sunder, been using enraged since it makes me zerk most of the time.  One thing i have a hard time with is-- once i lose agro-- its so hard to get it back, im spamming baloks, taunting blow, enranged when i get it. This is what i use for my line up.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I always have focused rage up-- depend on how hard the mob is i have soldiers stance up. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1.Enrage</DIV> <DIV>2.Balok's</DIV> <DIV>3.Hold the line.</DIV> <DIV>5. Furious onslaught.</DIV> <DIV>6.Taunting blow</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Then I start buffs</DIV> <DIV>7.Blood lust</DIV> <DIV>8. Rally Cry</DIV> <DIV>9.Fury</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Where i find im screwed is when i just wasted my AE taunt and we get adds.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Rescue does work but not all the time, and you need to be really close.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Then I repeat the first 6.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>One other question--</DIV> <DIV>If we get adds-- its so darn hard to target the other group to get agro-- any suggestions? Im scared to use tab, and f8 doesnt always seem to work.  Is it better to target the person that grabbed agro and taunt?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Tip:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>One thing I learned is if you have a mezzer--make use of them-- if you get adds stay on your current mob, and let the chanter do his job and pray that he can save the healer <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.  It gets messy if you switch targets-- or if other tanks in the group start changing targets to save the healer.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[sceptre155]

<DIV>I'm lvl 29 also. So people are still using hold the line... hmmm I wonder if I should try throwing that in again.  Its a pain in the butt to use tho. recast time on it is long too if i remeber.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I've been using group buffs on my way back to the group to help alittle with agro also.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Looks like i have some experimenting to do. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Diabol]

<DIV>Oh, something else to add... many other classes have aggro reducers, like evade and distract ... if your in a situation where aggro is troublesome make sure they are using them.  My assassin uses evade constantly, I don't wait until something is trying to force strain my soft tissue through my chainmail.  Hence I can usually go all out and rarely get aggro.  I don't know how distract works, how long the recast is etc but the point is aggro control is not 100% the responsibility of the tank.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Stromul]

<DIV>I found the best way to hold aggro is to:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Pull mob in with your longest range taunt.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Start casting your buffs now.  Never cast your buffs before a fight always during.  It increase yours hate alot.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Spam off a couple of HOs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Start you regular attack skills.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I never lose aggro that way.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Cozumel]

I fought in RoV doing the Clay Guardian rooms (both sides) from lvl 28 to 30 yesterday for 14 hours.I lost agro...excatly.. NEVER.My method:Fire up Bloodlust & Fury & Battle Tactics (Havoc Optional).Enter room, use single long-range taunt (Anger I believe).As I'm returning, I spam Vicious Swing (Trait skill... whatever single attack works for you).Once it lands, I fire Enrage (now using the upgraded skill at lvl 30 trait skill).Barrage -> Wound -> Kick -> Raging Strike (cuz everything else is greyed out at this point).... as long as everyone has u targeted, thus on your mob... I never lost agro. -- Coz

[Toxa]

<DIV>Taunt is broken unless you use taunt to pull, before anyone else has aggroed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>however</FONT>, i never have trouble keeping aggro at all, EXCEPT... since the big patch, it seems that in a few, mostly instanced, dungeons... Once you are down to 1-2 mobs left alive, they split off the main tank and cannot be re-aggroed by the main tank. This has caused many groups no end of trouble since the big patch.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>.</DIV>

[Aburai]

<DIV>I had a similar problem to you in ROV HPotter, where single mobs were not a problem but I'd occasionally lose aggro on multiple mobs.  Never the mob I was beating on but the ones I wasnt beating on.  I would have put it down to the Dirge and Assassin in the group not assisting me but I know they were so my only conclusion is that the MOB AI is starting to get a bit smarter now and if you don't use the right skills they break off.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm usually an avid Hold the Line user but this didnt seem to be working all that well here so I changed things up a little and managed to find a better way to hold aggro.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Firstly, I always use a Longbow to pull from as far out as I can, difficult in ROV and other dungeons because of the cramped space but the good thing about it is it gives you a fair buffer for you to create aggro while the mobs are incoming.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So I'd pull with my Longbow, then fire off Havoc whilst moving back into postion with my group.  As soon as the mobs were in range hit Enrage.  Straight off I now have more hate than anyone else in the group.  Then I'd hit Battle Chant and start laying into the mobs, cycled through the buffs and taunts as soon as the recast timers were back up and never lost aggro again.  I also had Soldiers stance and Focus rage up, Focused Rage and Enrage made me hit the Berserk state a couple of times a fight so a little more hate generated by it.  I hit Bloodlust whenever I remembered to but its not something I tried to keep up all the time, though Fury was.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think it all boils down to finding the group of skills that wont cost huge amounts of power but will give you enough hate to keep you above the rest of the group.  In this group I was in, those particular tactics worked well.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Oh, I took the Training Upgrade to Anger which I did use in combat but only against single target adds we got.  It was good having that fairly high level taunt in reserve for those occasion you need it.</DIV>

[Padi]

<DIV>Given he is NOT losing agro on the target he is beating on, and the assassin is getting agro.  There is no way the assassin can get agro on the other mobs if he's assisting.  The bard however does have a lot of agro generating abilities, so that is possible, but unlikely if you are using enrage.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It's clearly a matter of your scouts not assisting.  At least in the case of the assassin.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I totally agree with using the macro option.  It gives me so much more flexibility.  Allows me to taunt adds before they kill anyone and still let our mez'er mez (just leave combat mode before taunting).</DIV>

[Telan]

I doubt that it's you doing anything wrong. It could also be that they are assisting you 100% of the time. So there is a one word answer: "Barrage".The creatures do "Barrage" type damage to you and your group too. Or at least they can.One way (IMO the best way) to solve this is to make sure that everyone else is standing behind the creatures and you are in front. This way when the creatures use a "Barrage" type of attack it only hits you.To confirm this if someone else in your groups gets nailed ask them what the specific damage message was. I would bet that if they are assisting you properly the creature is either using some kind of AOE, or barrage type of attack.The only time I loose agro is when we are fighting stuff 6 levels or more above me and I cant hit it. If I can hit it even 25% of the time I hold agro with bloodlust or bloodrage and simple taunts. Occasionally a swashbuckler or other type can backstab for 200+ and they may pull agro off me. I'm not sure the best way to get agro back after that... --Telanas lvl 29.8 zerker

[Thuyk]

<DIV>I was in the Ruins of Varsoon today, killing the three Lichs (and the waves of enemies before they spawn) for the Chamber of Immortality Access quest.  I didn't have any problems with holding aggro.  As a couple posters have said, use group buffs <STRONG>DURING</STRONG> combat if you are the main tank.  I use Uthros' Advanced Tactics (the Training upgrade to Battle tactics), Havoc, Battle Chant, Blood Lust all during combat, in addition to Enrage and Anger.  Battle Chant casts very fast, so it makes for a nice buff to use early on.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Danielle_Mindweaver]

<DIV>It seems to hav been covered, it was them not you. Try if you can to complete a HO yourself before anyone assists, have group members target you before fight, that way when they attack with you targetted they will attack the mob you are fighting. To be extra efficient they should then target that mob themselves, this leaves you free to target a group member if someone starts taking hits and spam some taunts to get that mob back on you (shouldn't need it but occasionally happens). Once mob is dead group members should once again target you so they are fighting your mob. Rinse andrepeat. of course they can make an assist macro to do the same job.</DIV> <DIV>Felmerian</DIV>