Berserker Tips to be told I'm wrong about.

[Kaberu]

<DIV>Berserker = offensive version of the warrior</DIV> <DIV>Guardian = defensive version of the warrior</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I can gear up my AC and put on a shield and jack up my Stamina for a hefty helping of Hitpoint pie, but no matter how far I go for the best AC/HP sandwich, the Gaurdian can go that much further.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In that respect, a Guardian is indeed better at tanking. I will in no way match his mitigation ability, I am a poor widdle tank :smileysad:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Or am I?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Perhaps I should work around my weaknesses? Perhaps I should use my Berserker strengths? Perhaps I should look at the big picture and find the righteous path of butt-kick? Perhaps I should stop using "perhaps" so much? Perhaps I'll change the subject...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Here is how I see it:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Berserkers are capable of more offense than a Guardian yet at the same time, it usually means we decrease our defensive capability. We are more likely to use dual-wields and two-handers, for example. The berserk state itself gives us a haste and offense buff but detracts from our defense capability. We just don't get the same calibur nor quantity of defense buffs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So the core focus of the Berserker detracts from his basic role as a tank?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I dunno about you guys but I kinda figured that as a Berserker, I should use a high Agility to balance it all out. Think of it this way...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1) It's like a monk that dodges alot... but we don't dodge quit as often as a monk would because a monk has... well, you know... Monk buffs.</DIV> <DIV>2) Thus, we get hit a bit more than a monk.</DIV> <DIV>3) Higher AC (compared to a monk) gives us abalance because we don't loose limbs of various importance when a mob hits us.</DIV> <DIV>4) Who uses the word, Thus?" I mean really. I sound like some smarmy know-it-all shmuck with crap for smarts and too much ... um... maybe I should switch topics before this gets moved to another section.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I guess you could say, "Well a Gaurdian can achieve the same result by boosting his agility in the same cool manner that Crusaders lack, could he not?" Not really. Only because the ability sets for each class favor a style of tanking. Guardians are much better when they focus on AC and HPs. Monks are better when they focus on Agility/Deflecting. Berserkers have a happy medium zone they can snuggle into or they can try to match the other classes in their respective styles but with lower results.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You can tune a Jeep for speed... it's just not gonna be as fast as a Corvette.</DIV> <DIV>You can tune a Corvette for offroad rhomping... it's just not gonna handle as well as a Jeep.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Both of them can get you to point B. Either by going around the block via the roads at high speeds (like a Monk dodging) or by skipping the roads and plowing through the neighbors' lawns (like the Guardian). I prefer to be happy with the Berserker way... just flip out and kill everyone.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Jher]

Nice positive post <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Look, I know I'm probably starting to sound all doom and gloom - I don't really feel that way, just want to get some issues fixed - With that in mind...Yes, you can [Removed for Content] out your ride to be pretty reasonably both offroad and onroad.If your group knows which type of track they'll be travelling on however, they'll always choose the best ride to fit... If you catch my drift.I didn't start out as a 'filler' hybrid, so I'm a little aggrieved to find myself as one now. Right now, our (slight) offensive bonus does not make up for the (slight) defensive lack.I like the analogy though <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Danielle_Mindweaver]

<DIV>The way I see it is, if I'm tanking (or any zerker) then the other classes can go full offensive with the DPS in the knowledge that they're not going to get hit. Just cross those fingers and hope your healer keeps you up.:smileyvery-happy:</DIV>

[Micbat]

Heya Austin Powers or anyone,Since the patch, when you are playing as MT do you stopping casting buffs that decrease defense. We know our offense isn't what it used to be, so would it be wise to help the healers out by not being so conserned about offense which lowers our defense? Again it sucks, but at this point I have to do anything that helps my group. If we have dps covered would you not bother with Defense Decrease abilities and buffs?

[Danielle_Mindweaver]

<DIV>I think what you have to bare in mind is that our offensiveness is what helps us maintain agro therefore helping wizzies/scouts do the REALLY big damage. Also I have tried going fully defensive and fully offensive on mobs and not really noticed any difference (neither have my healers). the only thing that seems to make a big difference is Hunker Down which gives a short duration boost to defense, I use this when things look bad. It's fun living on the edge, it's like taking down Coirnav with seconds left on the timer.</DIV>

[-Aonein-]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P> <HR> </P> <P>Danielle_Mindweaver wrote:</P> <P><BR> It's fun living on the edge, it's like taking down Coirnav with seconds left on the timer.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>We only told them that to put pessure on them, there was really one minute left :smileywink:</P> <P>Taemek Frozenberg 32nd Berserker<BR>10th Outfitter<BR>Leader of Justice Bringers<BR>Everfrost Server<BR><BR>Aonein Amillion 26th Monk ( retired )<BR>17th outfitter<BR>Everfrost Server<BR><BR>Enlightened Aonein Amillion ( retired )<BR>70th Stone Fist of The Celestial Fist<BR>Five Rings on Luclin Server<BR><BR>"We are the two halves of the Flowing Circle, the light and the dark. If either grows too weak or too strong, the circle collapses on itself. Here, I will draw a Flowing Circle in the sand for you. Meditate upon the dual nature of our order and ourselves as you practice Kitten Swims Upstream. Perhaps, if you learn something from your meditations, Brother Tenshin will teach the kitten to become a tiger."<BR></P>

[Kaberu]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Micbator wrote:<BR>Heya Austin Powers or anyone,<BR><BR>Since the patch, when you are playing as MT do you stopping casting buffs that decrease defense. We know our offense isn't what it used to be, so would it be wise to help the healers out by not being so conserned about offense which lowers our defense? Again it sucks, but at this point I have to do anything that helps my group. If we have dps covered would you not bother with Defense Decrease abilities and buffs?<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>If we pull a double underconned orange then I'm all about stifling my rage and stancing my soldier (I don't recommend stancing your soldier too often, I hear you can go blind). The optimal pull for us is a group of mobs. Typically, A scout will easily outdamage me when I hold a single mob. When I aggro a group of three or more, the same scout would likely have to burn more mana than necessary to match my DPS IF he even can get close. Even with a group of two mobs, I can still do a fair amount of damage, enough so where I'm on par with some of the scout classes. That's not to say my single target DPS isn't too bad either :smileywink:</P> <P>Same thing goes for a Guardian. His optimal pull would white and higher double undercons. He primarily just holds aggro while his group does the damage.</P> <P>That's all just optimally seakingly ifly you catchly my driftly.</P> <P> </P>

[-Aonein-]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kaberu wrote:<BR> <DIV>Berserker = offensive version of the warrior</DIV> <DIV>Guardian = defensive version of the warrior</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I can gear up my AC and put on a shield and jack up my Stamina for a hefty helping of Hitpoint pie, but no matter how far I go for the best AC/HP sandwich, the Gaurdian can go that much further.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In that respect, a Guardian is indeed better at tanking. I will in no way match his mitigation ability, I am a poor widdle tank :smileysad:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Or am I?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Perhaps I should work around my weaknesses? Perhaps I should use my Berserker strengths? Perhaps I should look at the big picture and find the righteous path of butt-kick? Perhaps I should stop using "perhaps" so much? Perhaps I'll change the subject...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Here is how I see it:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Berserkers are capable of more offense than a Guardian yet at the same time, it usually means we decrease our defensive capability. We are more likely to use dual-wields and two-handers, for example. The berserk state itself gives us a haste and offense buff but detracts from our defense capability. We just don't get the same calibur nor quantity of defense buffs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So the core focus of the Berserker detracts from his basic role as a tank?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I dunno about you guys but I kinda figured that as a Berserker, I should use a high Agility to balance it all out. Think of it this way...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1) It's like a monk that dodges alot... but we don't dodge quit as often as a monk would because a monk has... well, you know... Monk buffs.</DIV> <DIV>2) Thus, we get hit a bit more than a monk.</DIV> <DIV>3) Higher AC (compared to a monk) gives us abalance because we don't loose limbs of various importance when a mob hits us.</DIV> <DIV>4) Who uses the word, Thus?" I mean really. I sound like some smarmy know-it-all shmuck with crap for smarts and too much ... um... maybe I should switch topics before this gets moved to another section.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I guess you could say, "Well a Gaurdian can achieve the same result by boosting his agility in the same cool manner that Crusaders lack, could he not?" Not really. Only because the ability sets for each class favor a style of tanking. Guardians are much better when they focus on AC and HPs. Monks are better when they focus on Agility/Deflecting. Berserkers have a happy medium zone they can snuggle into or they can try to match the other classes in their respective styles but with lower results.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You can tune a Jeep for speed... it's just not gonna be as fast as a Corvette.</DIV> <DIV>You can tune a Corvette for offroad rhomping... it's just not gonna handle as well as a Jeep.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Both of them can get you to point B. Either by going around the block via the roads at high speeds (like a Monk dodging) or by skipping the roads and plowing through the neighbors' lawns (like the Guardian). I prefer to be happy with the Berserker way... just flip out and kill everyone.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>Very constructive post Kab, but your forgeting one thing, a Guardian will be wearing the same as you are so his Agility will be the same as yours putting them in the same boat.</P> <P>Any monk will tell you they block more then they dodge.</P> <P>Taemek Frozenberg 32nd Berserker<BR>10th Outfitter<BR>Leader of Justice Bringers<BR>Everfrost Server<BR><BR>Aonein Amillion 26th Monk ( retired )<BR>17th outfitter<BR>Everfrost Server<BR><BR>Enlightened Aonein Amillion ( retired )<BR>70th Stone Fist of The Celestial Fist<BR>Five Rings on Luclin Server<BR><BR>"We are the two halves of the Flowing Circle, the light and the dark. If either grows too weak or too strong, the circle collapses on itself. Here, I will draw a Flowing Circle in the sand for you. Meditate upon the dual nature of our order and ourselves as you practice Kitten Swims Upstream. Perhaps, if you learn something from your meditations, Brother Tenshin will teach the kitten to become a tiger."</P>

[Stromul]

<DIV>I'm upset at the changes they did but what am I going to do?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyway I still out damage my other fellow group members 99% of the time.  I'm level 26 berserker that dual-wields.  Maybe it'll change as I level but right now I consistently beat everyone in DPS at the main tank.  When I go off-tank that's a different story but I end up drawing so much aggro that by the end the mob is on me and I still out damage other group members.  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Kaberu]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> -Aonein- wrote:<BR><BR> <P>Very constructive post Kab, but your forgeting one thing, a Guardian will be wearing the same as you are so his Agility will be the same as yours putting them in the same boat.</P> <P>Any monk will tell you they block more then they dodge.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV> <DIV>I DID list the monks as Agility/Deflection... blocking is deflecting :smileytongue: </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>Hmm, I think you missed what I was saying... A Guardian can indeed focus on Agility too, but detracts from the advantage he has at surviving double, triple and more undercons (as well as orange and reds). Basically, by focusing on agility it balances a gaurdian's strengths and weaknesses out and places him into the jack-of-all trades, master of none category in doing so. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Second of all, me being a dark elf berserker wearing the same armor as a barbarian guardian will have more agility than he does. First, i start with higher Agility than a barbarian naturally. Second, not only did I take stat bonuses to Agility for regular advancement (which I suppose the barbarian guardian can do too) but I have racial traits that give me a permanent Agility boost that the barbarian does not get.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That's not fair though, it is an individual case that I'm looking at but that is the beauty of this game: No two characters are alike.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If I were to play a guardian, I would jack up my stamina and go for all the AC I could get, shield and all. I'd be a freakin juggernaught taking blow after blow... I myself prefer a little more balance and versitility which is why I play a berserker. I'm not gonna be first pick in the line to tank the raid mob, but I'm OK with that. For the day to day grind however, I'm right up there with the rest of them... usually preferred no less :smileyhappy:</DIV><p>Message Edited by Kaberu on <span class=date_text>01-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:36 PM</span>

[-Aonein-]

<DIV>I understood what you said Kab, but i think you miss my point. The thing that makes a Berserker so much different from a Guardian is our skills, just incase you dont know much about a Guardians skills, i did a little research into the Guard class the other night, and they were more then happy to spill the beans for me :</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=4&message.id=6088" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=4&message.id=6088</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You will see the difference there, so if a Guardian was to work on his agility, which isnt hard cause alot of Heavy class armor has agility on it, but he wouldnt just be a jack of all trade tank, he would be a superiour tank given the skills he gets as a Guardian. Not only would he dodge alot, but mitigate Guardian style.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Most tanks i talk too dont go for agiltiy, they go for STA / HP / AC / Saves > agility. I have also played around with this myself, running around finding all the agility items i can find, but another thing you may not know is deflect is a seperate skill to block for a monk, ive checked it before on my monk, he has block and deflect skills, when he deflects he gets a different message to the one he gets when he blocks. A block is a asorbed hit, no damage, a deflect is the attack being deflected onto the mob, but dont go thinking wow you just deflected a 600 hit back at the mob, doesnt work that way. Which is why the agility factor is a good idea, but its just doesnt work as good in practical as it does for a monk.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>From a monk point of view after playing one, i look at them as a group utility more then a tank, sure they can tank, but not as near as effcient as a plate class can, i look at them as a group utility plus good DPS. When u find the monks that know what there doing they are awesome assets to any given situation, the skills they can put on a tank, absorb hits intended for the tank, which he doesnt take damage for, he has a ability he can cast to lessen the agro of certain people in the group, like a Wizzie or Assassin. Monks are like a moving ward, they absorb damage intended for the tank and add great DPS to the group, and have a bunch of nice group utility based buffs he can share around.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Taemek Frozenberg 32nd Berserker<BR>10th Outfitter<BR>Leader of Justice Bringers<BR>Everfrost Server<BR><BR>Aonein Amillion 26th Monk ( retired )<BR>17th outfitter<BR>Everfrost Server<BR><BR>Enlightened Aonein Amillion ( retired )<BR>70th Stone Fist of The Celestial Fist<BR>Five Rings on Luclin Server<BR><BR>"We are the two halves of the Flowing Circle, the light and the dark. If either grows too weak or too strong, the circle collapses on itself. Here, I will draw a Flowing Circle in the sand for you. Meditate upon the dual nature of our order and ourselves as you practice Kitten Swims Upstream. Perhaps, if you learn something from your meditations, Brother Tenshin will teach the kitten to become a tiger."</DIV>

[Kaberu]

<DIV>Hehe, I think we are talking about cross purposes. For one, I'm not talking about in-game literal-translation "deflection". I meant deflection as in the average english word. As in to deflect. Be it by parring or by blocking or whatever... I was referring to the act of deflecting damage, bouncing it to the beyond and skipping it across the lake of someone-else's-problem.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Agility does help alot in dodging. When I fight a group of whites, I'm usually dodging every few seconds. The animation alone is clear. Heck if I fight a horde of greens I can almost break dance. now I just gotta work on my moonwalk a bit more :smileytongue: If a monk doesn't dodge that much it's probably because the other checks are done first (or maybe they don't really have THAT high of an agility).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If a Guardian devotes the same kind of points to agility (points coming from all manner of sources: items, traits, etc) as, say... a monk or scout might, it will limit what he is capable of doing as by his class design. A high Stamina/AC combo coupled with his abilities will give him an edge in tanking higher level, underconned mobs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A better way of putting it:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A Guardian goes to tank a red double undercon. If he uses his key abilities, it reinforces his ability to tank this mob. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A Berserker going to fight the same mob using his key abilities LOSES some ability to tank that mob. Now the Berserker has abilities to increase his tanking ability but it doesn't add up to what the Guardian can muster. Not only that but most of his attacks can cause a berserk state which reduces his defense (same goes for his taunts, some buffs, etc...). </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Higher agility on a Berserker gives him an edge in the type of fights he excels at: Groups of mobs in the blue to yellow range. A Guardian can increase his agility in the same way but it essentially equates to taking resources away from his primary area of expertise. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A guardian can tank the blue to yellow mobs just fine too, but the AOE abilities of the berserker gives his group a huge efficiency gain over the gaurdian. Those same AOE abilities are very inefficient against a single strong mob.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Okay, now that I have too many plot devices out there, let me consolidate:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1) Berserkers excel at fighting group mobs: We have a nice array of AOE and Encounter based attacks, taunts and abilities with various effects (my favorite right now being the group/encounter based stun). The best groups of mobs to fight are probably blue to yellow... decent experience with an excellent kill speed = fun fun joy joy! Plus, I just love fighting groups over single pulls (but that's just me).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2) Guardians excel at fighting higher level and underconned mobs. Their better defense skills puts them on par with mobs that are higher level in terms of mobs offense vs tanks defense. Not only that, but the drain on group resources is less. Killing will be slower, but the higher XP per kill averages it out.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Of those two situations: Agility will benefit situation (1) a heck of alot more than situation (2). A high Stamina will benefit situation (2) alot more than situation (1) (not to mention a shield).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>At 35 my 3 physical stats unbuffed are:</DIV> <DIV>STR 82</DIV> <DIV>AGI 99</DIV> <DIV>STA 60</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>AC is 1941 with 2227 HPs</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>To get a high Stamina too, I'd probably have to drop to 80ish in Agility to get Stamina up to 80 while maintaining the other stats... It'd make all three 80+, but you can see where the tradeoff is.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Right now I ace situation (1). I can do the (2)... just not really the best at it and I'd drain more of the groups resources (get it? do the 2? Ya, i know... stupid pun). Ya might think a guardian won't drain more resources in (1), but he would... either the fight will last longer than it should making the XP that much slower or the rest of the group will have to kick up mana consumption to make up the damage difference the Berserker would bring to the table against groups of mobs. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That's all I'm saying, or trying to say or have said, will said, whatever I said and whatever makes sense... just take your pick. :smileyhappy:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[ArivenGemini]

<blockquote><hr>Kaberu wrote: I prefer to be happy with the Berserker way... just flip out and kill everyone<hr></blockquote>Five stars for that one line.. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />I didn't become a berserker to be the king of agro control, I didn't become a berserker to become the best at damage outlay, I didn't become a berserker to have the best armor... to be honest.. I becaome a berserker to "just flip out and kill everyone" <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> role playing a touch, yeah... but still I have FUN because thats WHY I am playing the game... I could min/max or I could do it how I want to and to the nameless with any detractors..

[Spaceweed]

<DIV>Good initial post by the OP.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I've read a lot of these threads regarding the fact we have/have not been gimped.  Pretty immaterial to me, as I can see with my own eyes whether I can or cannot tank.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yes, we have some issues regarding 'broken' arts, or whether we can still be considered 'damage dealers'.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My primary role, has always been as 'MT', and I have 'never' been found wanting in this dept.  On the odd occasion I have been a secondary tank/off tanker/damage dealer, I 'still' haven't been found wanting.  There may be other preferred classes in this area, but I 'can' do the job.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I love my Berserker, and wouldn't change to any other class, regardless of the issues that still remain.  You can post 'parse' logs all you like, but the proof is in the pudding.  I can, and always have been able to maintain my primary role in a group.  We are 'warriors' and our primary role is to tank.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you are finding this role hard to fulfill, it is because you are not doing your job to the fullest, using the abilities/arts/buffs provided to you, 'not' because you think you are 'gimped'.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for the 'nobody wants us' issue.  I have found this to be totally untrue.  I receive regular /tells asking if I can tank for certain groups.  This could be because they can't find a Guardian, or it could be because I do a good job - I'll leave this to you to figure out <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Iced</DIV> <DIV>Level 37 Berserker of Faydark</DIV>

[Diabol]

<DIV>I agree, our role is still pretty solid... I like the flip out and kill everyone perspective too, we can still do that.  I do think they silently adjusted us up a little afte the nerf be it by fixing a few things or whatever, but all seems pretty well.  I wouldn't mind if they took another look at our defensive cost for the amount of offense we get though, I feel we're taking a somewhat unfair hit there.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyway, last night I had a good example of how we can shine.  We had a full, fairly balanced group going in EL, the MT was a SK 3-4 levels over me, so I had my dualies out just having a good time, ableto stay berserk most of the time with good placement of enrage and stand firm plus my various strikes that can trigger it.. we had an add that burned up the templars power pretty quick, he says "Broosr full dps", I pull out all the stops and lay down everything that can make me zerk first,I had 3 berserk states and the mob turned to me without hesitation.. pop fury and weapons shield and then well everything that wasn't gray, including a solo HO, the bear went down fast...i'll leave out the colorful metaphor.  My health was orange, i was out of power but we lived.  </DIV>

[drkknt]

<DIV>Good constructive post.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am a level 36 zerker and I can tell you from fact that if you are grouped with a templer and mystic you can tank  lvl 41 mobs while dual wielding and survive easy. The secret is in the mystic. I will let you guys figure out what the secret is. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Gartague]

Nice post.Just a thing between Guardian and ZerkerGuardian have a STA line based, Zerker have an STR line basedRight now, the impact of STR in game is way less important than STA or AGI spell line for a tank or grp use.Might be wrong, if so please explain <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Diabol]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> drkknt wrote:<BR> <DIV>Good constructive post.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am a level 36 zerker and I can tell you from fact that if you are grouped with a templer and mystic you can tank  lvl 41 mobs while dual wielding and survive easy. The secret is in the mystic. I will let you guys figure out what the secret is. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>How 'bout a hint?  Broosr is Ogre, not much smart!</P> <P>But broosr make you good deal, you tell broosr and broosr not grind your bones for bread?</P>

[sceptre155]

<DIV>Any parse info on AGI yet?</DIV> <DIV>I'm unable to play for a few more days <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by sceptre155 on <span class=date_text>01-21-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:03 AM</span>

[Excalibre33]

<DIV>Just catchin up on threads after the holidays... I couldn't resist posting on this one because of the questions and comparisons related to the different stats... I've been very curios about AGI and STR effectiveness... When the perk reroll happened a few patches ago I completely went STA on my zerk... AGI is great but doesn't seem to help me out when group XPing on dark colored mobs. I'd always gone the STR route before the reroll. Since the creation of this toon I'd committed him to STR gear/perks/buffs and figured that was what the class was intended for based on skills. STA just made better sense now that I am acclimated to the game and this toon is in his mid 30s. He is nearly always MT on orange to red group mobs...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> I did discover something very interesting that I've not seen many post about...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>STR seem to impact your Attack rating significantly... and further more, AR seems to impact you dodge/parry/repo %... anyone else noticing the hidden combat related bonus in STR besides dmg output? After I [Removed for Content] out on STA gear/perks... yea my HP changed dramatically but I seem to get hit a lot more. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm sorry I don't have good metrics to back this as it was an unexpected find that I can't reverse. This find may be completely off base since all of the crazy and secret (undocumented for the players) balance patches happened around the same time.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The small tests that I have done are supporting this though... I fight a single mob with a good tower shield and 1Hr... I get hit a bunch... I toss on my 2Hr or DWs in the same skill req range with high +to STR and fight the same mob... my AR jumps nearly 100 points... I never get hit and parry/repo twice as much. I may need to do more research on AR in other forums but here's some quick thoughts for the zerker community.</DIV>

[Kaberu]

<DIV>Ya bring up a good point of interest Excalibre... What DOES affect parry and such aside from the skill? AR seems to make sense and is definately a good thing to study.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As far as agility... If I'm not mistaken, the reason for the fix for mobs 40+ (the one so they hit as often as players) was due to the fact that high agility scouts could easily tank the 40+ mobs because they'd never or rarely get hit. That's whta a couple guildies told me anyway.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Krullg]

The way I see it is in a solo scenario you get: <b>Gaurdian -</b>Lower damage output, higher damage mitigation. So they take more damage, but deal less, so a fight will last longer.<b>Berserker -</b>Higher damage output, lower damage mitigation.So they will die faster, but they put out more damage ending the fight sooner, hopefully before they fall over dead.In a Group Scenario: IMO damage for both classes means squat. It now boils down to buffs, and aggro management, both of which I think the zerker has over a guardian.The only downside after that is the fact that healers will heal a Zerker more than a Gaurd, but my healers normally roll with the punches and come out ok at the end of a fight power wise.

[cas]

<DIV>Hey all,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>for the Mystic secret it is there Debuffs (slow) and Ward..  and to be honest Mystic Templar healer combo is the best I have ever experienced..  main lvl 28 Mystic played with em all....   As my Mystic I have had all 6 fighters as MT's and to be honest they can all do the job no questions asked...  It all depends on the skill of the MT..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I duo with my roomate he made a Templar and I was going down the Guardian route until I started to read about Zerkers...  I quickly changed my mind and went to Zerker just for the increase in damage..  I have grown to love my Zerker even more than my Mystic and let me tell you that was a harsh reality to me...  5 year vet Shammy EQ1...  all I have to say is thanks for a nice positive post good to see them...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Dasha da Everloving Shaman of Povar</DIV> <DIV>28 Mystic Dasha da Barbarian</DIV> <DIV>21 Zerker Scrot da Troll (wish the females didnt look so grotesque)..</DIV>

[Adewale]

People 'like' Spaceweed/Iced 'are' really annoying 'when they' decide that adding a 'bunch of quotation marks' makes their post 'seem more' intelligent than it 'really' is.

[pen'cilli]

<DIV>Awsome post!!!!!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I became a Berserker for the name.  It just sounds kewl, Go out and kill stuff right.  A group of buddies and I all started fresh and have been playing together the whole time.  Advancing together and all.  So far I have been the MT.  Zerker (24), SK(24), Inq(23), and once in a while my lovely wife Wizard (20).  SK pulls and I pull agro before battle starts and hold it!!!  That is my job, my team knows it and I know it.  And so far I love it.  I don't have damage scrolling, I don't see if I hit or miss, I always play first person!!!  I am an RPr and love it!!!  So far there have been very few things that whoop'd up on us.  But we are a team and as long as you know what your abilities are and that of your parties, and everyone knows there role, Zerkers ARE the tankers!!!!!  I don't know if I have the best equipment, I don't knwo if I have the best weapons.  What I do know is that I am the best tank in our group and am happy with that being my role.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The debate comes up with one of our guildies that he says SK's are the best Tanks.  And of course I disagree with him from my experience of our group.  When the SK pulls agro for what ever reason we are in a world of hurt if I can't pull it off him in a hurry.  As then our Inq has to draw much more power from himself in trying to keep the SK alive.  I know our AC are very close, believe his is higher due to the fact he wears a shield.  I find items/gear that increase my Agility over Strenght where he goes for Strength.  But as far as mobs go he takes far more damage than I do against the same mobs.  I love being a Zerker in our group!!  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>