alright lets talk about this here 'nerf'

[BlueFalcon13]

<DIV>fisrt off before you all get all [Removed for Content] with me for telling you all you are wrong please keep an open mind towards this post, this post is dealing with the blood lust being 'broken', and yes i am a lvl 31 monk so supposedly i dont knwo what im talking about but im gonan throw out a few ideas to yall in the zerker ring as for i grouped with a zerker for an hour or more running different tests with combatstats up (<A href="http://member.cox.net/combatstats" target=_blank>http://member.cox.net/combatstats</A>)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>first off blood lust is not broken, or less useful... my reason for saying this is before bloodlust(correct me if i am wrong but i am almost positive about its before patch ablilities) was possible zerk off any successful hit on a group memeber from the mob, and now is RARELY cause to go zerk from sucessful HIT FROM the ZERKER... which comes down to its time to retire any weapons but duelwields for one simple reason... duel wield's = twice the hits. plain and simple zerkers are now made to be duel wield. the reason bloodlust is more usefull if you ask me is cause when you attack something that doesnt really hit you very oftain you can still go bezerk off your own attack as before if it didnt hurt you you didnt go bezerk. so yall go ahead and start lookin for duel wield weapons for your zerkers... plain old logic tells us you hit 2 times more you go zerk 2 times more.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>myth # 2- zerkers dont have any DPS, zerkers dont have any DPS when they are nor going beserk in combat, problem solved with duel wields(also upgrade your blood lust as high as you can... that is your bread and butter skill, its what makes or breaks you in DPS output), and those to items should solve alot of problems for you all and your dmg output....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>as for the not being a great tank anymore.... well zerkers werent ment to be guardians in the first place.. so if you are looking to tank maybe you should start thinking a little more outside the box... this matter i am unclear on so i wont really touch it... i know for a fact the lvl 30 zerker took less dmg then i did(lvl 31 monk) against a lvl 24 griff in our test(i took on a lvl 25 griff to acount for the one lvl difference) by a significant amount(i took over 800 dmg he took around 2-300 dmg) given that wasnt in my best tanking stance or anything but we were testing out DPS here and not tanking ability, plus the zerker still had the AQ armor on with little to no upgrades.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>again please dont disregaurd this post cause its saying zerkers arent broken as much as the majority of yall say they are... yes you all could use some work but every class needs some work after all, and with the new patch alot of classes need to be changed the way they are played... i think you all can make the zerker class work for you if you all put forth more effort in working with the class as is and not complaining about it as much, this patch has definatly brought about a need for a change in play style for your class... i encourage you all to try out new ideas and see how they work and post your findings here in this forum, best of luck to you all in your endevors</DIV>

[hesb]

i'd like to look at those stats, but the URL doesn't work.

[BlueFalcon13]

<DIV>ok first off it wasnt a link to stats.. its a link to a great parser program so yall can test your numbers with mine/ my theroies... i didnt record the DPS the zerker was getting or that whick i was getting but all seems inline with the post from SOE on the role of the zerker.... the zerker's dps output was within 10 dps of my monks output in when i had dragon stance.... and btw the linky i will fix... forgot an s <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><A href="http://members.cox.net/combatstats" target=_blank>http://members.cox.net/combatstats</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>lvl 31 monk- befallen</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>'cant touch the monks :smileytongue:'</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[tarasl]

<DIV>Well they turned beserkers into a lesser shade of guardian. We are suppose to give up the defence that a guardian has for offence. What does that mean to you since you know the class so well? Well what it does mean to a zerker is we give up the defence but we've also lost our offence in a marginal way. If it was a 10 or 15 percent reduction to our dps maybe it wouldn't have stung so bad. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[caine71]

<DIV>Sorry, but I've been Dual Weilding since 15th lvl Warrior, and it does not help Blood Lust process anymore after the Nerf Patch. Also, Dual Weilding dmg does not compare to the 40% dps we lost after nerf patch. So hate to tell you this, but you're wrong on those accounts.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by caine71 on <span class=date_text>01-13-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:26 AM</span>

[hesb]

<blockquote><hr>BlueFalcon13 wrote:<DIV>ok first off it wasnt a link to stats.. its a link to a great parser program so yall can test your numbers with mine/ my theroies... i didnt record the DPS the zerker was getting or that whick i was getting but all seems inline with the post from SOE on the role of the zerker.... the zerker's dps output was within 10 dps of my monks output in when i had dragon stance.... and btw the linky i will fix... forgot an s <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV><A href="http://members.cox.net/combatstats" target=_blank>http://members.cox.net/combatstats</A></DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>lvl 31 monk- befallen</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>'cant touch the monks :smileytongue:'</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV> </DIV><hr></blockquote>My bad, i was expecting a breakdown of DPS between monks and zerkers to prove your OP.

[BlueFalcon13]

<DIV>hey look im not tryin to get yall to flame me here.. im tryin to help you all with my the little info my small brain could turn up and if you did read the post from the SOE guy THAT is exactly what you are supposed to be... a guardian who has sacrificed some defence for DPS..... so go ahead and flame the guy who has tried to help you all out... why dont you [Removed for Content] on his face? maybe he'll trhow out a magic fix while he rides his magic carpet and shoot magic beams of happyness from his magic wand...... you get the point yet killer?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>PS- this was in response to taraslar</DIV><p>Message Edited by BlueFalcon13 on <span class=date_text>01-13-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:30 AM</span>

[NoSympathy_FU]

Thank you for the link, I guess it is time for me now to do my homework and pull out the stats. See how I perform using different ways / skills / weapons to tank and see wich one is more effectient. And also see how broken I am... ...or not?At least I will have some numbers and will be able to decide by myself.Odenn3x Berserker on LucanHonor & Steel

[tarasl]

<DIV>I don't need a parcer to tell the difference between night and day <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Diabol]

<DIV>The problem is offense and defense are not equal, because of the nature of mob health and damage the trade between defense and offense needs to be weighted to offense.  If you give me 10% offense and take 10% defense and do the opposite for guardians I get the short end of the stick.  Mob deals 4000 damage over course of fight, 10% defense gives the guard 400 points, player deals 2000 damage over course of fight, 10% is 200 points, to further compound this, those 200 points are a smaller ration of the mobs greater health than players than the ratio of extra heath the guardian yields (in damage not taken) compared to his natural pool.   I know this is confusing, and my numbers are made up for easy rounding, but we all know mobs do more damage and have more health, hence the amount of healing needed to win a fight.  And ya, I know im talking about group mobs.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Grimve]

<DIV>Dual Wield does not make you proc more.</DIV>

[Jher]

<blockquote><hr>BlueFalcon13 wrote:<DIV>first off blood lust is not broken, or less useful... my reason for saying this is before bloodlust(correct me if i am wrong but i am almost positive about its before patch ablilities) was possible zerk off any successful hit on a group memeber from the mob, and now is RARELY cause to go zerk from sucessful HIT FROM the ZERKER... which comes down to its time to retire any weapons but duelwields for one simple reason... duel wield's = twice the hits. plain and simple zerkers are now made to be duel wield. the reason bloodlust is more usefull if you ask me is cause when you attack something that doesnt really hit you very oftain you can still go bezerk off your own attack as before if it didnt hurt you you didnt go bezerk. so yall go ahead and start lookin for duel wield weapons for your zerkers... plain old logic tells us you hit 2 times more you go zerk 2 times more.</DIV><hr></blockquote>Ok, just wanted to dispel myth #1, which was that bloodlust, previously worked off a hit on a group member... It did not. The description stated that it did, but never worked this way. In practice, the proc worked when you hit the mob (albeit too much). All they have done is massively reduce the chance of it proccing, from near constant, to once or twice per fight.Procs also don't work on 'more hits=more procs' - Most people find they proc bloodrage more for example with a 2H than a duel wield.Simply put, the patch reduced our DPS, with no 'hidden benefit'. There is no silver lining on this cloud <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Draxre]

<DIV>nice try Blackbelt, now go take a needed rest.</DIV>

[Thoo]

<blockquote><hr>BlueFalcon13 wrote:<DIV>fisrt off before you all get all [Removed for Content] with me for telling you all you are wrong please keep an open mind towards this post, this post is dealing with the blood lust being 'broken', and yes i am a lvl 31 monk so supposedly i dont knwo what im talking about but im gonan throw out a few ideas to yall in the zerker ring as for i grouped with a zerker for an hour or more running different tests with combatstats up (<A href="http://member.cox.net/combatstats" target=_blank>http://member.cox.net/combatstats</A>)</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>first off blood lust is not broken, or less useful... my reason for saying this is before bloodlust(correct me if i am wrong but i am almost positive about its before patch ablilities) was possible zerk off any successful hit on a group memeber from the mob, and now is RARELY cause to go zerk from sucessful HIT FROM the ZERKER... which comes down to its time to retire any weapons but duelwields for one simple reason... duel wield's = twice the hits. plain and simple zerkers are now made to be duel wield. the reason bloodlust is more usefull if you ask me is cause when you attack something that doesnt really hit you very oftain you can still go bezerk off your own attack as before if it didnt hurt you you didnt go bezerk. so yall go ahead and start lookin for duel wield weapons for your zerkers... plain old logic tells us you hit 2 times more you go zerk 2 times more.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>myth # 2- zerkers dont have any DPS, zerkers dont have any DPS when they are nor going beserk in combat, problem solved with duel wields(also upgrade your blood lust as high as you can... that is your bread and butter skill, its what makes or breaks you in DPS output), and those to items should solve alot of problems for you all and your dmg output....</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>as for the not being a great tank anymore.... well zerkers werent ment to be guardians in the first place.. so if you are looking to tank maybe you should start thinking a little more outside the box... this matter i am unclear on so i wont really touch it... i know for a fact the lvl 30 zerker took less dmg then i did(lvl 31 monk) against a lvl 24 griff in our test(i took on a lvl 25 griff to acount for the one lvl difference) by a significant amount(i took over 800 dmg he took around 2-300 dmg) given that wasnt in my best tanking stance or anything but we were testing out DPS here and not tanking ability, plus the zerker still had the AQ armor on with little to no upgrades.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>again please dont disregaurd this post cause its saying zerkers arent broken as much as the majority of yall say they are... yes you all could use some work but every class needs some work after all, and with the new patch alot of classes need to be changed the way they are played... i think you all can make the zerker class work for you if you all put forth more effort in working with the class as is and not complaining about it as much, this patch has definatly brought about a need for a change in play style for your class... i encourage you all to try out new ideas and see how they work and post your findings here in this forum, best of luck to you all in your endevors</DIV><hr></blockquote>As stated above, you have a few assumptions that are incorrect about bloodlust, both pre- and post-nerf.Anyways, I just wanted to ask you one question... if you had the choice to pick six level 30 characters, all with the best stuff available, would zerk be in that group?Now, I do realize that there are more than six classes so many others will be left out too, but this isnt relevant right now (just because other people are starving, should you stop eating too?).. but before the nerf, in a perfect group, _I_ would put a zerk there (depending on what you were doing, many mobs a level or two under you would make zerk the best tank)... after the nerf, I cannot think of one single good group, regardless of what you are doing, where zerk has a place.The reason I picked zerk is because I knew my place before I even started playing... to tank lots of mobs that are not above my level and do some good damage!This is what they took from us... and this is what all the complaining is about... from my side anyways...