Berserker DPS change info - Numbers here.

[Wuus]

<DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>Update from Moorgard 01-07-2005 09:35 AM </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#669900>"I thought berserkers would like to know that the change to Bloodlust will be corrected in a hotfix scheduled for this weekend. It will no longer be limited to a single proc before fading. Sorry for the confusion."</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>--------------------------------------------------------------------</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hello fellow Berserkers,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Before the patch today, i knew the bloodlust was up for some change.</DIV> <DIV>I wanted to have real numbers to see what differed before/after the patch.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>To start, im a level 38 Berserker on Runnyeye.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I went to Varsoon before patch, and killed two Clay Golems, both level 32.</DIV> <DIV>I buffed myself with all buffs, except focus rage (to random to get a reliable DPS count)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now you will also notice i did not use specials during the fight, because i wanted to see how my base-damage was affected from the upcoming bloodlust  changes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Pre-patch:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Fight 1)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Damage done total by me: 7142</DIV> <DIV>Time: <FONT color=#ffff00>2:37</FONT></DIV> <DIV>DPS: <FONT color=#ffff33>45.49</FONT><BR>Damage taken: <FONT color=#ff0000>707</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>Fight 2) </FONT></DIV> <DIV><BR>Damage done total by me: 7131</DIV> <DIV>Time: <FONT color=#ffff00>2:21</FONT></DIV> <DIV>DPS: <FONT color=#ffff00>50.57</FONT></DIV> <DIV>Damage taken: <FONT color=#ff0000>195</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Post-patch</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Fight 1)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Damage done total by me: 7180</DIV> <DIV>Time: <FONT color=#ffff00>03:56</FONT></DIV> <DIV>DPS: <FONT color=#ffff00>30.42</FONT></DIV> <DIV>Damage taken: <FONT color=#ff0000>1150</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Note: Post-patch fight, since bloodlust only lasted 3 minutes, i had to rebuff it during fight (could have lost 1 hit there). It did not proc berserk during the first 3 minutes, but procced once when the mob was at approximately 5-10% health (second bloodlust cast during fight).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0033><U>Going from 45-50 DPS to 30 DPS is a decrease of almost 40% pure base damage. This is to much IMHO.</U></FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I chose berserker because i wanted to be "berserker", one who "berserks".</DIV> <DIV>I always loved seeing that red glow pop off during fights..  Not sure how i will feel about my character now that i will only see it so less often.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Why did you completely remove bloodlust?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Better fix (constructive)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <UL> <LI><FONT color=#66cc00>Remove ALL taunt capabilities from Bloodlust (I can live with guardians out-taunting us)</FONT></LI> <LI><FONT color=#66cc00>Instead of making Bloodlust proc IMMEDIATELY after previous proc ends, make it proc after 10-12 seconds) - effective 10 seconds berserker state, followed by 10 seconds of cooldown, rinse repeat for 3 minutes, re-buff as needed.</FONT></LI></UL> <P>I am hoping SOE announces todays change to Bloodlust as a bug, because i dont see any fun in not being able to tank, taunt as good as Guardians, and now don't have the DPS advantage.</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>(READ: I am not calling for nerfs on Guardians - If a class is overpowered, up all other classes and toughen up monsters, because no one of your customers likes playing with less than what they have previously.)</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66cc00>(Parsing was done with Statalyzer from </FONT><A href="http://www.thescoutssanctuary.com/" target=_blank><FONT color=#66cc00>www.thescoutssanctuary.com</FONT></A><FONT color=#66cc00>)</FONT></P> <P>Thank you for listening, and safe hunting out there. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>Wuushu - Level 38 Berserker - Forgotten Heroes of Dereth</P> <P>Runnyeye Server</P> <P>EDIT - Fixed some spelling errors and added parser download URL.</P> <P>Message Edited by Wuushu on <SPAN class=date_text>01-07-2005</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>09:09 AM</SPAN></P> <P>Message Edited by Wuushu on <SPAN class=date_text>01-07-2005</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>09:48 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Wuushu on <span class=date_text>01-07-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:50 AM</span>

[Aburai]

<DIV>Fantastic, its good to see some cold hard data.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But I dont know what scares me more, the drop in DPS or the amount of extra damage you took post patch.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>/shakefist</DIV>

[Wuus]

<DIV>Aye, increased damage taken, combined with the healer class "nerfs" i think we will have a few tough days ahead. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I just miss being a "berserker" :/ </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I will probably get more studying/IRL/cleaning done the next few weeks, since ever after EQ2 release. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Jesper]

Clay golems are group mobs if I am not mistaken.Group mobs got beefed in the patch.Your numbers are biased since the mob your scaling yourself with have been modified.Healer nerf is a error on soe. It is stated in the news section on the official forum. It will be fixed.Hope it works out for beserkers when SoE have ironed out the problems with the patch.Granbar Mountaintall32 Guardian28 Alchemist

[OverlordM]

<DIV>I am not seeing any difference in damage...and tested on solo mobs...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As said above group mobs got beefed so everyone is hitting for less and getting hit harder.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Bloodlust got borked and possibly the haste on tides of war....but beyond that I like my zerk still and think its as viable as always has been..i do think the nerfs to a few skills will get tweaked  back up....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Start using Focus Rage again and a few of the "Go Berserk" skills and you should be in berserk mode a good amount of the time.  Id bet that the DPS loss you are seeing is from not being in zerk mode 100% of the time with blood lust on.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A few skills that make you go berserk got fixed...and I think they in conjuntion with our taunts should make it easy to maintain agro...sure not as easy as before...but Im sure we will still be stealing agro when not being careful.</DIV> <P>Edit:  I am actually playing more with it now...and I am able to be berserk a good chunk of the fight using the right skills...its strange sometimes two berserk spells are up even...</P> <P>Message Edited by OverlordMLF on <SPAN class=date_text>01-06-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>06:38 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by OverlordMLF on <span class=date_text>01-06-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:42 PM</span>

[Aburai]

<DIV>Not entirely true there.. This was in the patch notes on the 4th of Jan</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- Slightly increased the melee damage of grouped mobs. Be wary!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So the results are not biased but point out an addtional discrepency in damage since "The Big Patch"</DIV>

[Methus]

<DIV>Here are my numbers, they are very similar to the numbers above. They are both logs of me killing 32 Feral Lashers, I lost 22 DPS (about a 40% loss in DPS) even with a level gain. This is much too harsh.<BR></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><U><FONT size=3>Oukagak lvl 35 Ogre Berserker (before bloodlust nerf)</FONT></U></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Astaroth of Guk's EQ2 Log Parser: 1.18 2004/12/28 23:58:21</DIV> <DIV>Parsed a total of 32 estimated battles<BR>Total Melee Dmg: 27169 over 923 seconds<BR>Total Skill Dmg: 26255 over 923 seconds</DIV> <DIV>You landed 335 hits and missed 128 times.<BR>Overall 72% of your hits landed and 28% missed.</DIV> <DIV>You landed 391 skills and were resisted 34 times.<BR>Overall 92% of your skills landed and 8% were resisted.</DIV> <DIV>Highest melee hit: 138<BR>Lowest melee hit: 22</DIV> <DIV>Calculated Melee DPS = 29.4355362946912<BR>Calculated Skill DPS = 28.4452871072589<BR><STRONG></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT size=3></FONT></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT size=3>Calculated Total DPS = 57.8808234019502</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><U><FONT size=3>Oukagak lvl 36 Ogre Berserker (after bloodlust nerf)</FONT></U></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Astaroth of Guk's EQ2 Log Parser: 1.18 2004/12/28 23:58:21</DIV> <DIV>Parsed a total of 32 estimated battles<BR>Total Melee Dmg: 27221 over 1550 seconds<BR>Total Skill Dmg: 27356 over 1550 seconds</DIV> <DIV>You landed 344 hits and missed 109 times.<BR>Overall 76% of your hits landed and 24% missed.</DIV> <DIV>You landed 400 skills and were resisted 41 times.<BR>Overall 91% of your skills landed and 9% were resisted.</DIV> <DIV>Highest melee hit: 127<BR>Lowest melee hit: 19</DIV> <DIV>Calculated Melee DPS = 17.561935483871<BR>Calculated Skill DPS = 17.6490322580645<BR><STRONG></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT size=3></FONT></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT size=3>Calculated Total DPS = 35.2109677419355</FONT></STRONG><BR></DIV> <P>Message Edited by Methusek on <SPAN class=date_text>01-06-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>06:36 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Methusek on <span class=date_text>01-06-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:37 PM</span>

[Aburai]

<DIV>Yikes, also the amount of time it took to complete the battles was much longer.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>from 32 battles in 923 seconds to 32 battles in 1550 seconds.    Though thats a given seeing as the DPS is lower.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Did you happen to parse the damage taken as well by chance?</DIV><p>Message Edited by Onichi on <span class=date_text>01-07-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:40 PM</span>

[Deeds]

<DIV> <DIV>If you cant see the difference in damage then what the hell are you lookin at? I duo with a fury, we were doing the yellow ^^ wasps in EL, AFTER they beefed up the group mobs on the 4th, I was left at full health with my healer usually around 20-30% power left.  Today after the big patch I go do a  white ^^  wasp( since I lvled yesterday) and im at half health and my healer oop.  We just simply do not do the damage that we used to do, so: the fight lasts longer, therefore, you take more dmg.  Oh and btw the powers that make us berserk, joke, tried them all, same results.  Atm you are a guardian w/o the guardian defensive skills. wtg soe woot.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Braxus 33 berserker</DIV> <DIV>Sophilia 32 fury</DIV></DIV>

[Methus]

<DIV>The difference in damage taken must be a representation of time in combat due to the newfound lack of DPS. Dont pay much attention to the amount of time it took to complete, I wasnt killing as fast as I could for the second log (and I dont remember if I was for the first one either). It doesnt really matter.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><U>Pre-Patch</U><BR></DIV> <DIV>Total Damage Taken: 18173 over 923 seconds<BR>Calculated Total IDPS = 19.6890574214518</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><U></U> </DIV> <DIV><U>Post Patch</U></DIV> <P>Total Damage Taken: 21796 over 1550 seconds<BR>Calculated Total IDPS = 14.061935483871<BR></P> <P> </P> <P><BR> </P> <DIV><BR><BR><BR></DIV>

[OverlordM]

<DIV>I am pretty sure you are seeing the same thing all classes are seeing....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am not seeing our skills being reduced in damage on solo mobs....and I am able to be berserk a good chunk of the time...and am not having issues with being hit more or harder on solo mobs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Actually with the Traits you gain as you level I gained (1) AoE stun (1) AoE melee Attack with bleed(assume DoT) (1) higher lvl AoE taunt ..overall Im prettyhappy with it ATM...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>yes bloodrage got nerfed, but we new it was coming..and really i dont think its going to end our ability to hold agro as taunts and going berserk in a fight a few times should be plenty</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Im not happy with what appears to be a reduction in the haste from being berserk or Tides of War...but I think the class isnt in danger of any major nerfs...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yeah Im not looking at parsed data, but I am cranking through the same solo mobs I did before patch....since most zones are down atm cant really group up on group mobs to see how hard they hit....but as said I am sure all classes are getting hit as hard and have same % damage reduction...save the lost DPS from our Haste nerf</DIV>

[Aburai]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Methusek wrote:<BR> <DIV>The difference in damage taken must be a representation of time in combat due to the newfound lack of DPS.<BR>  <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Aye, thats what I just wanted to verify by seeing a second set of Numbers :smileywink:.  Thanks for the info guys, I wish I was at home to play with it first hand.</P> <P>Work getting in the way of playtime, how rude :smileyvery-happy:</P> <P>And I think you are right somewhat OverlordMLF, I'm going to have to evolve my combat strategy a bit more from now on.  I never really relied on Bloodlust to hold aggro so thats not too much of a problem though I am going to miss the perks of being Berserk as often.<BR></P> <p>Message Edited by Onichi on <span class=date_text>01-07-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:14 PM</span>

[Adewale]

The new training abilities we got are not intended to stack with their normal version, so that's not a DPS upgrade there, OverlordMILF. That any do (Nekhron's Barrage) is a bug.

[OverlordM]

<DIV>Not sure about that, as well as the aoe taunt I got is better tahn my clas aoe taunt.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I was reading that wthey are intended to NOT stack with our class skills..as so many mages are complaining about.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I cant believe a trait skill should stack with a class skill...that would not make any sense..I mean why choose it?</DIV>

[Jher]

<DIV>Don't take this as a flame, Overlord - but this is the same argument that a few higher level Zerkers gave when Bloodrage was nerfed... Ie. I'm not seeing a problem, so there isn't one.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The truth in that situation was the bloodrage was made totally ineffective from levels 21-30, after which the damage starts to scale up dramatically and the skill becomes quite useful again - So the higher level Zerkers at the time noticed no problem whatsoever, and told the complaining majority to be quiet.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>From level 37+ in this situation, most people apparently use Tides of War (same timer?) as a replacement(?), and have a greater number of skills which give the opportunity to proc berserk anyway, so again, the situation is not as drastic for them. This does not mean however that things are all peachy because 'oh well, we'll work out fine in the end'. Levels 23-37 are a huge chunk of a characters life here to be gimped through.</DIV>

[OverlordM]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jherad wrote:<BR> <DIV>Don't take this as a flame, Overlord - but this is the same argument that a few higher level Zerkers gave when Bloodrage was nerfed... Ie. I'm not seeing a problem, so there isn't one.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The truth in that situation was the bloodrage was made totally ineffective from levels 21-30, after which the damage starts to scale up dramatically and the skill becomes quite useful again - So the higher level Zerkers at the time noticed no problem whatsoever, and told the complaining majority to be quiet.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>From level 37+ in this situation, most people apparently use Tides of War (same timer?) as a replacement(?), and have a greater number of skills which give the opportunity to proc berserk anyway, so again, the situation is not as drastic for them. This does not mean however that things are all peachy because 'oh well, we'll work out fine in the end'. Levels 23-37 are a huge chunk of a characters life here to be gimped through.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>Naw I totally agree and am not saying there is no problem at certain lvls.  While I have Tides of WAr I think it itself has been borked as well..as I am not seeing the haste efffect taht I used to replcae bloodloost even before the nerf to bloodlust..</P> <P>I wont even dispute taht our Damage over time was nerfed via haste off bloodlust and ToW...BUT I cant believe its a class killer as everyone is saying here.</P> <P>Using Focus Rage, our buffs, our taunts ect...we will be in zerk mode more than enough to hold agro IMO...I jsut dont see a serious DPS loss on solo mobs which leads me to believe there was yet another upgrade to Group Mobs AC....if that is the case a lot of classes will feel the same DPS loss...and we are not even a DPS class...</P> <P>Although my big hits are doing the same damage now as pre-patch I again agree we lost DPS in haste alone.</P> <P>i jsut dont know why blood lust not working would break the class if we are still able to be berserk a reasonable amount of time in a fight...</P> <P>going berserk is what pulled agro..hell even going bers once ina  fight was enough most of the time...</P> <P>I jstu think there is some over reacting ATM when people start yelling Im quitting and bers is non-viable across the board.</P> <P>In all honsety ATM I really like the patch...it puts a tad bit of skill and attention to our class as well as pulls out the 1 trcik pony issue and otehr classes whining about bloodlust (which we knew was being changed) </P> <P>I think the fact taht Focus Rage alone is apparently working more effectively and putting us into zerk mode is a good sign that this isnt an accross the board issue that would affect some lvls moreso than others...but agin the whole magnitude of the patch is yet to be seen...and especially since many zones are down it might not be seen for a few days</P><p>Message Edited by OverlordMLF on <span class=date_text>01-06-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:31 PM</span>

[Jher]

<DIV>I think one of the reasons I am sore about this is that many of us actually <EM>wanted</EM> bloodlust to be toned down in the aggro department, so that it could be used to effectively maintain berserk state whilst off-tanking.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Whilst you can proc berserk now (to a much lesser extent) with buffs such as Focus Rage, we have even less ability to proc berserk in the offtank role now, and reduced ability in the MT role. This wasn't a fix, it was an outright slap in the face.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>All that had to be done was to reduce or remove the aggro generation of 'going berserk', and make the ability do what it says on the blasted tin, ie. Give the chance to proc berserk when a group member is hit. Not exactly hard, and anyone with half a braincell to rub together was suggesting things like this, but again, the powers that be have ignored the playerbase.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Edit: Typo</DIV><p>Message Edited by Jherad on <span class=date_text>01-07-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:34 AM</span>

[PlatinumPrince]

<DIV>Before patch I was soloing yellow and oranges at lvl25 really well. Now I can barely solow a white with 50-100 hp left afterwards. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm going to bed... I feel sick.</DIV>

[Paradigmshi]

All I know is that now we are a second rate tank, who has lost all its class defining abilities. Pretty much we dont hit like we are supposed to anymore plus we lose our ability to zerk. I use all the abilities and I rarely see the red pop up. Also, I have noticed that as a ZERK I lost aggro multiple times today which never happened before. So until SOE changes this crock its off to craft and fume...

[Vanes]

<DIV>I have to disagree with Overlord, I think this is a class killer.   I zerk maybe once or twice a fight now.   Sorry but you can't tell me that a zerker that hardly ever zerks is still effective.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It's the same pattern SOE always does, they nerf a class into the ground and it takes years for that class to climb back up.   Sorry but I honestly do not see the point of playing when with one patch i've gone from having great DPS and taunting, with good damage mitigation to having utterly NOTHING.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This class has been gimped, I guess SOE did plan on the Guardian being the only viable tank in the game.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Very sad at this, I can't see playing and spending the time to level when my character has gone down 50% in effectiveness.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Very sad =(</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Vanessa</DIV>

[JediAveng]

<DIV>So what if you can kill solo mobs about the same amount of time. This isn't a solo game. If you want to actually lvl above a snail pace your fighting Group mobs ^^ in a group. We need groups to want us. If you dont have the DPS when your not tanking - we as a class will be screwed.  DPS stacks - Tanking does not.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We have to do a good amount of DPS when we are not tanking to be viable as a DPS fill in.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Scouts have DPS and versatility.  Tanks should get - Tanking and DPS. Before this game came out - we were constantly told by community Rep fighters would do the HIGHEST amout of DPS and Scouts would do Burst DPS.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-Jedi-</DIV>

[Arg]

<DIV>Actually Overlord, Moor posted that the new training was supposed to take the place of a previous skill and they would use the same timer.</DIV>

[Deeds]

<DIV>Overlord, are you in the same game?  Question why are you a berserker? to be a tank? to hold agro? to have long but safe fights? that is a GUARDIAN.  We are a dps/tank, it even says that in the freakin EQ2 strategy guide, DPS, not a scout or wizard lvl DPS, but yes DPS slash tank.  What are you after the patch? a second rate guardian.  The berserk is our class defining feature, you take that away and it ruins everything.  Guuardians should take the pounding, we DO the pounding and take some.  I agree that we drew too much agro but why mess with our damage?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Braxus 33 berserkerSophilia </DIV>

[ravenshri]

<DIV><FONT face=Garamond size=3>This throws a huge monkeywrench in my plans, as I'm two levels from being a 'zerker. Not sure what to do now. Maybe I should sit tight and wait for SOE to clean this mess up. Never intended on being a guardian!  Here's hoping for the best....I think. I'm going to bed...</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><EM>Julex</EM></STRONG>  Lvl 18 Warrior- Lavastorm</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Curr. lvl needed an update  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV><p>Message Edited by ravenshrill on <span class=date_text>01-06-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:09 PM</span>

[Dulan]

Very disappointed, our aggro ability should have been lowered no question, Guardians couldn't get aggro off me if they tried. Not that we shouldn't beable to hold aggro somewhat, we should, but not the extreme we were at before. However, our DPS should not have been changed, especially as bad as it was.

[Dado]

<DIV> <DIV>hmmm, lets change some of the skills people were given and let them choose all over again (do i raise my HP, STR, crafting abilities, races i hate, etc) and these are pretty minor things. Change a class and let them choose another of the same level because what they did (breaking my class and making me a warrior rather than a berserker) and what they do to fix it is going to determine what I do with this game. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And something else, now with the breaking of certain combat abilities, if I wish to be in a berserk state I have to watch icons - something I can do without a game (that comes free with Windows) - and I dont get to see much of anything in the game. With this is the fact that a group buff that lasts 3 mins untill its effect is used only once, but uses a huge amount of power makes this class useless and un-enjoyable.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Berserkers are ment to do lots of damage - SOE said this. Now they still say this but make it so we dont.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>All I can say is GET STUFFED to SOE on behalf of all Berserkers. **thats as clean as I can keep my language while hopefully getting my message across**</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Very bad form SOE</DIV></DIV>

[Thinm]

<DIV>Playing a berserker was fun...now its not.</DIV>

[CherobylJ]

<DIV>==========================</DIV> <DIV><U><FONT color=#ff0033>Going from 45-50 DPS to 30 DPS is a decrease of almost 40% pure base damage. This is to much IMHO.</FONT></U></DIV> <DIV><U><FONT color=#ff0033>============================</FONT></U></DIV> <DIV><U><FONT color=#ff0033></FONT></U> </DIV> <DIV>Dear god thats bad....40 pct drop off in dps.  I suspected tonight it was bad but i had guessed a 15-20pct dropoff.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Way to fix an agro issue by destroying a class SOE.</DIV>

[bathory610]

jus think we having nothing left to nerf kinda sad really

[Recon]

<DIV>Folks, I don't know about all this talk of nerf.  Yes BL works a bit different now, but seriously, who stands there and doesn't use specials ever?  Anyway from my experience tonight I have 1) no problems holding agro even with a level 47 swash in my group.  2) I am doing close to or just as much damage as before and maybe even more since I proc bloodlusted wounds A LOT more than I used to.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-Karg</DIV> <DIV>45 Zerk</DIV> <DIV>Lavastorm</DIV>

[CherobylJ]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ReconEQ wrote:<BR> <DIV>Folks, I don't know about all this talk of nerf.  Yes BL works a bit different now, but seriously, who stands there and doesn't use specials ever?  Anyway from my experience tonight I have 1) no problems holding agro even with a level 47 swash in my group.  2) I am doing close to or just as much damage as before and maybe even more since I proc bloodlusted wounds A LOT more than I used to.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-Karg</DIV> <DIV>45 Zerk</DIV> <DIV>Lavastorm</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> That is because you are past the level area (at level 45) where the skill most impacts dps.  That doesnt mean its ok.

[OverlordM]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> CherobylJoe wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ReconEQ wrote:<BR> <DIV>Folks, I don't know about all this talk of nerf.  Yes BL works a bit different now, but seriously, who stands there and doesn't use specials ever?  Anyway from my experience tonight I have 1) no problems holding agro even with a level 47 swash in my group.  2) I am doing close to or just as much damage as before and maybe even more since I proc bloodlusted wounds A LOT more than I used to.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-Karg</DIV> <DIV>45 Zerk</DIV> <DIV>Lavastorm</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> That is because you are past the level area (at level 45) where the skill most impacts dps.  That doesnt mean its ok.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>ahh what skill lvl is the "new" dps curve at?</FONT></DIV> <DIV></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>Im not seeing it at 40 and a few zerks in EL at 29 were enjoying it as well?</FONT></DIV> <DIV></FONT> </DIV> <DIV></FONT> </DIV>

[Grimgo]

<DIV>I love how the high lvl Zerks dont care about us middle of the pack people.. i'm 8 lvl away from being an effective tank now. I'll need to get pity groups that don't mind someone bring down there overall DPS jus so I can regain my abilites.. well, until those get nerf'd too.. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[OverlordM]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Grimgore wrote:<BR> <DIV>I love how the high lvl Zerks dont care about us middle of the pack people.. i'm 8 lvl away from being an effective tank now. I'll need to get pity groups that don't mind someone bring down there overall DPS jus so I can regain my abilites.. well, until those get nerf'd too.. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>Wow Im talking about a lvl 20 skill</P> <P> </P>

[CherobylJ]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> <BR> <P>Wow Im talking about a lvl 20 skill</P> <P> </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Which is used by a great many people up until their 30s, man you dont know how to refute correctly.</P> <P>Clearly this impacted ALOT of people who arent in your level range, just because something doesnt impact YOU doesnt mean it isnt important.</P> <P> <BR></P>

[MondaynSilvaCor]

<DIV>all i can say to add to this is I too feel they swung the nerf bat abit too hard at us and made us bleed. I can really tell the difference in my dps and am having a lot harder time tanking, though my agro management seems to be ok with a fury atm.</DIV>

[OverlordM]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> CherobylJoe wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> <BR> <P>Wow Im talking about a lvl 20 skill</P> <P> </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Which is used by a great many people up until their 30s, man you dont know how to refute correctly.</P> <P>Clearly this impacted ALOT of people who arent in your level range, just because something doesnt impact YOU doesnt mean it isnt important.</P> <P><BR> </P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Huh? Im using it at 40...That is what I have been saying.....I AM USING FOCUS RAGE TO GO BERSERK </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>it is a LEVEL 20 SKILL</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Grimgo]

<DIV>at lvl 40.. how many skillz will get you in Zerk mode?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>at lvl 29 i have:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Focus Rage.. though it doesn't proc often</DIV> <DIV>Furious onslaught.. but its AE so pray you dont have any CC in your group or grey mobs near by</DIV> <DIV>Blood lust.. but it drops once you Berserk 1 time</DIV> <DIV>Enrage.. I've never seen this proc berserk.. </DIV> <DIV>Raging strike.. It was a low dmg spell.. maybe i can dust it off and hope it zerks me</DIV> <DIV>Vicious blow.. a great skill</DIV> <DIV>Coup de gras.. never used this skill.. if your fighting a group it might be useful but solo ^^ mobs its useless. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>before patch.. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I would have 1-3 zerk icons up at anytime but i always had atleast 1 up during a fight.. now I'm lucky if I get 1 going.. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>plus.. the parses people have showed.. we are taking a 40% hit in DPS.. you may not feel this hit Overlord  but the middle of the pack Zerks do.. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Recon]

<DIV>Oh comon you're whining.  I obviously can't see your problems because I am not your level.  I am saying that this patch did not affect me drastically if at all.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-Karg</DIV> <DIV>45 Zerk</DIV> <DIV>Lavastorm</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>PS - I am not using anything but focus rage, rage, and BL to go zerk at level 45.  The other attacks we have to go into zerk mode suck.</DIV><p>Message Edited by ReconEQ on <span class=date_text>01-06-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:22 PM</span>

[Grimgo]

<DIV>well.. congrats to Overlord and Recon.. the patch didn't effect them.. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>/cheer</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Grimgo]

<DIV>what adepts do you  have on those skills?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Owa]

<DIV>Listen ...I really didn't want to get offensive but <EM>please</EM> mr overlord, could you at least attempt to stop telling everyone how great you are at berserkering, and how the patch wouldn't affect us crappy players if only we were as good as you. You've made your point and who knows - maybe someone was impressed?</DIV>

[Padi]

<DIV>Only real problem I see now is when we group with shaman.  Wards don't work well with reactive bezerker state.</DIV>

[Recon]

<DIV>I have focus rage adept 1, rage app 3, and BL adept 1....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-Karg</DIV> <DIV>45 Zerk </DIV> <DIV>Lavastorm</DIV>

[Cyper]

yeah bloodlust no longer works that great now. i just have to rely on other skills now, though im not quite sure what to use, i'll have to do some testing. id like to know what else everyone is using to go berserk, which skills, in what order.<p>Message Edited by Cyper00 on <span class=date_text>01-07-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:13 AM</span>

[Flad]

<DIV>Wow This totally blows.. I leveled my warrior to 18 hoping to become a zerker becuase they seemed really cool.  Now the day I get close to becoming one they Beat them into a coma with the nerf bat.. argh.. I am prob gonna become one anyways and try it out but.. grr  They are prob gonna do what they did with paladins in EQ.  They sucked for years than they made them gods.</DIV>

[Vanes]

<DIV>I'm 28, Bloodlust does not cause me to proc Berserk but MAYBE 10% as much as it did up till yesterday, and if it does and I go Berserk it instantly removes Bloodlust which is also a attack power buff replacement for Call to Arms so I lose quite a bit of attack power for going Berserk.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When I'm Berserk I don't do nearly the damage I did yesterday, I do not hit as fast.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My other skills that cause Berserk, seldom work, IF they work, refer to the above, I'm still not reaching the DPS I was yesterday, by a longshot.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I would say that at 28, using every skill I have to cause berserk in a fight I go berserk a Average of 2 times.    </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But hey, that little bit of DPS is a total justification for not having the higher damage mitigation that Guardians have, the now better taunting that they have, the AC and HP buffs they have.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Berserkers are now pathetic, and I don't know what irritates me more, that high levels keep coming on here saying everyone else is wrong and backing up the most horrific class nerfing in one patch in any mmorpg i've ever heard of, or the fact that the patch happened in the first place.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I can not think of a single MMORPG, where 1 class which was NOT overpowered by any lengths that allowed it to perform at a level far beyond that of other class's of the same type (Melee) had its effectiveness reduced so much in a single patch.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Whats truely amazing is if you read the patch notes it sounds like we got BUFFED!   I got Adept 1 for Bloodlust tonight, i've looked for it on brokers for 3 weeks.   I got it, and heh, wow, im 40% less effective then I was yesterday at App1!!!!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>WooHOO thanks SOE!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It's funny that since Berserkers were sooo overpowered, in the Priest forum when asked to rate MT's Berserkers almost always came in second, BEFORE todays patch.   Thats sure overpowered and deserving of crippling a class to me!!!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Vanessa</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>P.S.  They should allow any Berzerkers that wish to to change their class to Guardians.   To make up for the greatest nerfing of a single class in a single patch.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Vanessa on <span class=date_text>01-07-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:21 AM</span>

[Aylindel]

<DIV>What most of you dont see is that Bloodlust dont got nerfed it got fixed (or a try to fix and its bugged again).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It was bugged before and dont worked as it should and now its bugged again. The only difference is that the first Bug brought us benefits and the second Bug makes the Skill totally useless. And the DPS going down is the difference between 100% Zerking in fight or only 40% zerking during a fight iam sure nothing else got changed on the base dammage output. Well there was a Nerf for Rampage and that hurts.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I barely used Bloodlust because i play with Guaridan in Group to Tank and with all my Buffs and Skills i do about 120-190 base dammage per swing before the Patch and same after the Patch and i still can zerking about 50% of the fight.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Bloodlust is bugged again and should be fixed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And here some Hints how to go Berserk:</DIV> <DIV>Tank - use Focus Rage</DIV> <DIV>Support Tank - put Infuriation on the MT</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Greetings</DIV> <DIV>Aylindel</DIV>

[Manopow]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> OverlordMLF wrote:<BR> <DIV>I am not seeing any difference in damage...and tested on solo mobs...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As said above group mobs got beefed so everyone is hitting for less and getting hit harder.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Bloodlust got borked and possibly the haste on tides of war....but beyond that I like my zerk still and think its as viable as always has been..i do think the nerfs to a few skills will get tweaked  back up....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Start using Focus Rage again and a few of the "Go Berserk" skills and you should be in berserk mode a good amount of the time.  Id bet that the DPS loss you are seeing is from not being in zerk mode 100% of the time with blood lust on.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A few skills that make you go berserk got fixed...and I think they in conjuntion with our taunts should make it easy to maintain agro...sure not as easy as before...but Im sure we will still be stealing agro when not being careful.</DIV> <P>Edit:  I am actually playing more with it now...and I am able to be berserk a good chunk of the fight using the right skills...its strange sometimes two berserk spells are up even...</P> <P>Message Edited by OverlordMLF on <SPAN class=date_text>01-06-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>06:38 PM</SPAN></P> <P>Message Edited by OverlordMLF on <SPAN class=date_text>01-06-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>06:42 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>There overlord goes, Blowing zerker NERFS again.</P> <P>Search all his post then do like I'm about to do</P> <P>/ignore OverlordMLF</P> <P>ps. he plays a guardian</P> <P>suk</P><p>Message Edited by Manopow on <span class=date_text>01-07-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:18 AM</span>

[Keet]

<DIV>Why don't you guess try what I did, relegate bloodlust to when someone else is MTing and dust off Blood Rage.  I was having a blast last night watching blood rage proc like crazy and was easily making up if not outrunning the DPS I was getting with bloodlust.  I didn;t even bother casting bloodlust after 2 or 3 times using blood rage.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I do agree however that the buff dropping after it goes off is silly and only getting 10 secs or so of haste per cast has made BL pretty much ineffective.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>(this is at lvl 28 with adept 1 blood rage fighting blue con groups of owlbears in Nektulos in a duo with a lvl 25 fury while using a tower shield and 1 hander.  Healer had no problems with power and except for the freaky owlbear agro issue that was there before the patch, no other trouble getting or recovering agro.  So if you consider 28 high level then you can group me with the "high levels not having any problems" but i like to call it adjusting my tactics.  My super easy agro management and fast autoattack is gone, but my specials are hitting just as hard and blood rage is making me giggle like a school girl.)  </DIV>

[Oldlore]

<DIV>The problem imo is the buff dropping after one proc.  That, given the power use and the 3 minute timer, is stupid and probably a bug.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think folks are just upset that the "fix" is still buggy.  Add in the useless/nerfed lvl 50 abilities and NO change to all our other buggy abilities (soldiers stance vs. reckless vs. weapon shield as an example) and i'm not surprised folks are upset. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That being said, I do think it's good that zerkers are perceivede as nerfed since that'll hopefully get rid of the those who bandwagoned on the class when they thought they were uber :p </DIV>

[PlatinumPrince]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Aylindel wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And here some Hints how to go Berserk:</DIV> <DIV>Tank - use Focus Rage</DIV> <DIV>Support Tank - put Infuriation on the MT</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Greetings</DIV> <DIV>Aylindel</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>lol thanks for the hints<BR>

[Vanes]

<DIV>40% damage reduction is not something this class needed, and the class is now non viable.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Never seen a class handed so many nerfs, and be so utterly destroyed in a single night.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Vanessa</DIV>

[Wuus]

<DIV>Thank you Vanessa, a<FONT color=#ff0000> reduction of 40% DPS BASE damage </FONT>(Parsed - Yes, see first post) was uncalled for. Aggro change was needed. Now we are just straight up "b0rked".</DIV>

[cr0wangel]

<DIV>I may sound dumb but can someone explain to me how to calcul DPS exaclty? Thank you.</DIV>

[Wuus]

<DIV>Using "Statalyzer" that parses the EQ2 log file. Edited URL information into first post.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Vanes]

<DIV>I pray for everyone, well, everyone that has posted here since last nite voicing concern and worry over the state of our class.  I pray that the upcoming fix actually fix's us.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For those of you that have spend the last hours telling the rest of us that we have no skill, and to adapt, well lookie lookie, the spell is bugged and is getting fixed.   If you play a Berserker and were unable to realize that Bloodlust was totally borked last nite, then frankly to all of you I say it is YOU that have no skill.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For the rest of us lets cross our fingers and hope after this hotfix we are viable!!!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>=)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Vanessa</DIV>

[Lademoisel]

<DIV>I have a level 33 Berserker and all my berserk skills are at Adept 1. I am lucky if I berserk once a fight. I am not sure why but hopefully it gets fixed. I will be patient though because I know the devs will do the right thing.  </DIV>

[Keet]

<DIV> <DIV>"For those of you that have spend the last hours telling the rest of us that we have no skill, and to adapt, well lookie lookie, the spell is bugged and is getting fixed.   If you play a Berserker and were unable to realize that Bloodlust was totally borked last nite, then frankly to all of you I say it is YOU that have no skill."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>riiight...so a player that can adapt and overcome without the use of an obviously bugged combat art has no skill?  excuse me if I find that a bit ludicrous.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There is more than one way to play.  To bad they decided to fix it so quick, might have culled the numbers of "skillful" players that can't adapt and overcome the loss of one skill.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Try a search for some of Thayne's combat logs about blood rage</DIV></DIV><p>Message Edited by Keethe on <span class=date_text>01-07-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:04 PM</span>

[LumpyD]

<DIV>- They need to fix Bloodlust so it does not drop when it procs (which they said they are doing). </DIV> <DIV>- They need to fix Bloodlust so it has a chance to proc more often, seems it does not proc enough atm.</DIV> <DIV>- They need to give us an upgrade to Blood Rage! I am 42 and no upgrade? Why?</DIV> <DIV>- Anarchy is broken JUST LIKE BLOODLUST and needs to be fixed.</DIV> <DIV>- Stomp needs to NOT break mez.</DIV> <DIV>- Upgrading to APPIV of Stunning Cry did not increase damage</DIV> <DIV>- Power drain style upgrades (I.E. Furious Rush) do not "upgrade" in damage or amount of power drained, just the con of the icon changes.</DIV> <DIV>- Old styles that were used to get us into zerk mode need to be made useful (I.E. provide something more beneficial than a styled hit that does LESS than a standard dual wield swing! )</DIV> <DIV>- Berserk needs to last a little longer, 15 seconds?</DIV> <DIV>- Infuriation type spells should be a conc based 11 hour buff so we can justify having 2 tanks in a group.</DIV> <DIV>- Weapon Shield needs to be fixed</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That is off the top of my head in 2 minutes of typing. </DIV>

[LumpyD]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Keethe wrote:<BR> <DIV>Why don't you guess try what I did, relegate bloodlust to when someone else is MTing and dust off Blood Rage.  I was having a blast last night watching blood rage proc like crazy and was easily making up if not outrunning the DPS I was getting with bloodlust.  I didn;t even bother casting bloodlust after 2 or 3 times using blood rage.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I do agree however that the buff dropping after it goes off is silly and only getting 10 secs or so of haste per cast has made BL pretty much ineffective.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>(this is at lvl 28 with adept 1 blood rage fighting blue con groups of owlbears in Nektulos in a duo with a lvl 25 fury while using a tower shield and 1 hander.  Healer had no problems with power and except for the freaky owlbear agro issue that was there before the patch, no other trouble getting or recovering agro.  So if you consider 28 high level then you can group me with the "high levels not having any problems" but i like to call it adjusting my tactics.  My super easy agro management and fast autoattack is gone, but my specials are hitting just as hard and blood rage is making me giggle like a school girl.)  </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> I did. It helped a little. Would help more if we got an upgrade..

[LumpyD]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Keethe wrote:<BR> <DIV> <DIV>"For those of you that have spend the last hours telling the rest of us that we have no skill, and to adapt, well lookie lookie, the spell is bugged and is getting fixed.   If you play a Berserker and were unable to realize that Bloodlust was totally borked last nite, then frankly to all of you I say it is YOU that have no skill."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>riiight...so a player that can adapt and overcome without the use of an obviously bugged combat art has no skill?  excuse me if I find that a bit ludicrous.</DIV></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>Adapting is one thing, taking it up the rear with no lube is another. These changes/adjustments were NOT tested, let go live, and people are upset. Go finsh your "glass of half full happiness."</P> <P> </P>

[Keet]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> LumpyDoo wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Keethe wrote:<BR> <DIV>Why don't you guess try what I did, relegate bloodlust to when someone else is MTing and dust off Blood Rage.  I was having a blast last night watching blood rage proc like crazy and was easily making up if not outrunning the DPS I was getting with bloodlust.  I didn;t even bother casting bloodlust after 2 or 3 times using blood rage.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000><STRONG>I do agree however that the buff dropping after it goes off is silly and only getting 10 secs or so of haste per cast has made BL pretty much ineffective.</STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>(this is at lvl 28 with adept 1 blood rage fighting blue con groups of owlbears in Nektulos in a duo with a lvl 25 fury while using a tower shield and 1 hander.  Healer had no problems with power and except for the freaky owlbear agro issue that was there before the patch, no other trouble getting or recovering agro.  So if you consider 28 high level then you can group me with the "high levels not having any problems" but i like to call it adjusting my tactics.  My super easy agro management and fast autoattack is gone, but my specials are hitting just as hard and blood rage is making me giggle like a school girl.)  </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> I did. It helped a little. Would help more if we got an upgrade..<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>the sky is falling! the sky is falling!  sorry I was on the wrong bandwagon...0.o</P> <P>they have done a "big mistake" every patch and rolled the ability back to a slightly lesser version of it then everyone is happy again....car dealers do the same thing.</P> <P>the price is 20000, they show you a sticker price of 30000, you balk and panic, then they "work you a deal" for 25000 and your all happy about it...they still screwed you over but you've totally forgotten about the 20000 price because they shocked you with the high one.  they have done that to some ability every patch then said ooops and rolled it back to a slightly lesser effective version of it so they can nerf it while psychologically you all see it as being "fixed".  they nerf you and you love them for it, did any of you overhyper panicers ever think they had planned that all along...they know what the numbers are, they know what the code does...</P> <P>If noone had complained they would have changed it back to a more useable version anyways.  This just makes them look like the fixers instead of the nerfers.</P> <p>Message Edited by Keethe on <span class=date_text>01-07-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:21 PM</span>

[Jher]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Keethe wrote:<BR> <DIV> <DIV>"For those of you that have spend the last hours telling the rest of us that we have no skill, and to adapt, well lookie lookie, the spell is bugged and is getting fixed.   If you play a Berserker and were unable to realize that Bloodlust was totally borked last nite, then frankly to all of you I say it is YOU that have no skill."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>riiight...so a player that can adapt and overcome without the use of an obviously bugged combat art has no skill?  excuse me if I find that a bit ludicrous.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There is more than one way to play.  To bad they decided to fix it so quick, might have culled the numbers of "skillful" players that can't adapt and overcome the loss of one skill.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Try a search for some of Thayne's combat logs about blood rage</DIV></DIV> <P>Message Edited by Keethe on <SPAN class=date_text>01-07-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>12:04 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Wow, nice troll. Yep, I'm a sucker for even responding, but hey....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hope you feel all mighty on your uber podium - I bow before your prowess. For us mere peons down here however, we were less than eager to take it up the backside and embrace the bloodlust change.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Whilst you are preaching about searching for Theyne's combat logs, you might also want to do a search for some of the <lvl30 people at the time who posted their own opinions on the subject. Or is Theyne your chosen deity now?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thankfully, more sensible minds than yours have prevailed, and the bloodlust changes are being revisited. May the berserker class regain some of its potential - no thanks to the sickening fanboyism for some quarters.</DIV>

[Keet]

<DIV>The herd is going that way Jherad...don't fall behind, you'll have to think on your own.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>"Whilst you are preaching about searching for Theyne's combat logs, you might also want to do a search for some of the <lvl30 people at the time who posted their own opinions on the subject. Or is Theyne your chosen deity now"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I was one of the under 30 people that actually tested blood rage...He was right.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Keethe on <span class=date_text>01-07-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:23 PM</span>

[Jher]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Keethe wrote:<BR> <DIV>The herd is going that way Jherad...don't fall behind, you'll have to think on your own.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>"Whilst you are preaching about searching for Theyne's combat logs, you might also want to do a search for some of the deity chosen your Theyne is Or subject. the on opinions own their posted who time at people> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I was one of the under 30 people that actually tested blood rage...He was right.</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Keethe on <SPAN class=date_text>01-07-2005</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>12:23 PM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>As was I... He was right, you were wrong <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Pity you hadn't grasped the power of independant thought back then, and instead felt the need to hang on to Theyne's coat tails.</P> <P>Bloodrage is almost useless at the level it is awarded; only once you start to approach lvl 30 does it come into its own now.</P> <P>Care to play some more, or are you done trolling yet?</P>

[Keet]

<DIV>I used it from the time it was awarded until now, only time it didn;t work well was when I mistakenly was using it with bloodlust which it doesn't stack with.  Independant thought is being able to make your own decision not going with what the rest of the crowd is saying.  You have a gift for irrelevance dwarfed only by your sense of misplaced righteousness.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You ask me if I want to "play" more and ask if I am done trolling?  Yet in both instances you are following the bandwagon response of the crowd.  please enlighten me as to how I am clinging to someone's coattails by agreeing with them once when you can't lift your head from the herd.  Your ineptness is making me remember why I so often chose not to comment on these boards.  Can't argue with someone who is incapable of realizing that their way is not the only way.</DIV>

[Dirtbea]

<DIV>My fingers got cramped scrolling up looking for a post that wasn't a flame with no useful content.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hopefully we'll get some moderation in here soon.</DIV>

[Jher]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Keethe wrote:<BR> <DIV>I used it from the time it was awarded until now, only time it didn;t work well was when I mistakenly was using it with bloodlust which it doesn't stack with.  Independant thought is being able to make your own decision not going with what the rest of the crowd is saying.  You have a gift for irrelevance dwarfed only by your sense of misplaced righteousness.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You ask me if I want to "play" more and ask if I am done trolling?  Yet in both instances you are following the bandwagon response of the crowd.  please enlighten me as to how I am clinging to someone's coattails by agreeing with them once when you can't lift your head from the herd.  Your ineptness is making me remember why I so often chose not to comment on these boards.  Can't argue with someone who is incapable of realizing that their way is not the only way.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>Ah, the joy. Only independent if you do it, I guess. And only following the herd if it is someone else <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>Well, I'll be sure to remember your nice 'special' place in the Berserker community. Apparently you seem to believe that the majority is always incorrect <EM>because</EM> it is the majority, so far better to be the lone wolf. What a romantic heroic figure you must be, braving the odds and spurning 'common' opinion. A genius just waiting to be discovered, no doubt.</FONT></P> <P>However, inept as I apparently am, for fear of completely hijacking this worthy thread I'll leave you to your ranting. Unless you wish to continue this fine discussion in IMs of course <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></FONT></P>

[Grimgo]

<DIV>ok.. lets say bloodrage is working better at the 30 lvl range.. I tend to group with chanters so I don't work my AE's.. so my damage is seriously lowered until the Berserk proc is working better.. On those special occasions when I have no CC an some extra healing, I'll break out BR and give it a whirl.. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Keet]

<DIV>Pardon me for the derailing, have taken it to IM's.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>but to clarify, since apparently my point was missed.   </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>YES the change to bloodlust was too much, I agree completely.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I DO NOT think our class is suddenly unplayable or useless and I reserved my opinion until I had tested it under normal circumstances.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Don't miss out on some of the very useful and quite fun skills we do have and get hung up on one all the time <--my main point, even if it may have gotten heavily distorted by this point.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Keethe on <span class=date_text>01-07-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:27 PM</span>

[Nuvi]

<DIV>just wanted 2 point out something,most of you have tested again mobs that are about 2 grey out on you,and berserker if indeed fixed (skill wise) is supposed 2 give a chance 2 go off when you take a hit,before it was bugged and went off when you hit a mob,meaning your fighting mobs that hardly even hit you,so saying it didnt go off until the fight was almost over isnt really a valid point,since these mobs hardly hit you,so lets say if the mob was a white/yellow or orange con you would get hit ALOT more,dont u think u would loose bloodlust faster?i mean even tho u buff up before fight etc.. it doesnt change the fact that atm berserker state has a chance to go off when you or a group member is hit,i havent gonne thro whole thread yet,but testing this on green mobs that hardly hit you doesnt seem like a good way 2 test it and compare it with pre patch stuff when berserker went off every time you hit a mob.</DIV>

[Lademoisel]

<DIV>I am level 34 and still don't have my berserker abilities procing like they should be. Sometimes they go off once a fight if I am lucky and all my skills for berserk are adept 1's. It's not just bloodlust it's everything. I know how to play my class and will stick with it even if I don't like the outcome of the patch. I just hope they do something sensible in the end and fix the proc rates. </DIV>

[Nuvi]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Deedbit wrote:<BR> <DIV>Overlord, are you in the same game?  Question why are you a berserker? to be a tank? to hold agro? to have long but safe fights? that is a GUARDIAN.  We are a dps/tank, it even says that in the freakin EQ2 strategy guide, DPS, not a scout or wizard lvl DPS, but yes DPS slash tank.  What are you after the patch? a second rate guardian.  The berserk is our class defining feature, you take that away and it ruins everything.  Guuardians should take the pounding, we DO the pounding and take some.  I agree that we drew too much agro but why mess with our damage?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Braxus 33 berserkerSophilia </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>basicly u want almost 2 do same dmg as scouts and wizs while having the ac and hp 2 take the hits?i love my class but it doesnt take much 2 see that we were 2 classes in 1,we are tanks first,dps second,when i choose the berserker route i knew that guardians would most likely be the preferd tank class if lets say me and a guard were both LFG i would assume they would pick him insted,when u make a game with so many dif class with same job it doesnt take much for ppl 2 understand which is the ultimate tank,sure it might not matter and healers might be swimming in mana anyways but most ppl when looking for tank they want the best defence,sure..some ppl use thier heads and go from expirience and dont pick the typical MA but most ppl are ignorent in the game when it comes 2 other classes,if i made a group and had 1 spot left for DPS i would pick an assassin if there was 1 scout avl from each of the sub classes.</P> <P>thats just how most ppl feel and do thier pickings.</P> <P> </P>

[PlatinumPrince]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nuvian wrote:<BR><BR> <DIV> most ppl are ignorent <BR></DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>:smileyvery-happy:</DIV>

[Nuvi]

<DIV>english isnt my native language,so if that was the joke i dont see how pulling it out has anything 2 do with my post <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV>if i changed the E with A would that make you happy ? <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR></DIV>

[PlatinumPrince]

<DIV>It was funny! It's like saying "You can't spel!" or "Learn some grammer." :smileyvery-happy:</DIV>

[Nuvi]

<DIV>hehe well,that wasnt really the point of my post tho<img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV>i ment ppl judge classes 2 fast <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR></DIV>

[Grimgo]

<DIV>Nuv.. I don't want PredCaster DPS.. That would be over powered, but as it stands right now, if a guardian went duel wield2hander they would do almost the exact same damage as a berserker.  Now, no guard worth a hill of beans should ever stray from sword and board but if they get the same DPS as us and get better mitigation then what's the point of our class.  I want to do DPS in the MonkBruiser range.. nice solid output  with the ability to Offtank or MT for a group.  Think about monksbruisers.. They have the best avoidance in game and now have a built in shield factor for their deflectionparry skills.. So berserkers get hit more, harder and do less DPS.. Sorry, I'm takin a break from the game until this gets resolved. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I mean.. Isn't that why most of us chose Berserker.. A DPS tank.. Someone who can deal damage and tank but take a few extraharder hits..  That was the description right? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Out of curiosity.. has anyone been able to stack Berserk procs or did that go away also?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Grimgore on <span class=date_text>01-07-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:26 PM</span>

[Nuvi]

<DIV>i understand you,im just saying that we did 2 much dmg before patch,i could outdmg assassins in my grp.</DIV> <DIV>ive stacked berserker state with focus rage after patch,2 at same time i belive,seems like raging strike gives a shorter form of berserker state goes away as soon at it goes on.</DIV>

[Diabol]

<DIV>Grim, I usually had stacked berserk states from focused rage and bloodlust, until it's staying up for multiple procs it will be hard to see if that was nerfed.  I have seen the berserk from the new taunt stacked on that from focused rage, but thats a different effect.</DIV>

[Grimgo]

<DIV>Thanks.. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Padi]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Grimgore wrote:<BR> <DIV>Nuv.. I don't want PredCaster DPS.. That would be over powered, but as it stands right now, if a guardian went duel wield2hander they would do almost the exact same damage as a berserker.  Now, no guard worth a hill of beans should ever stray from sword and board but if they get the same DPS as us and get better mitigation then what's the point of our class.  I want to do DPS in the MonkBruiser range.. nice solid output  with the ability to Offtank or MT for a group.  Think about monksbruisers.. They have the best avoidance in game and now have a built in shield factor for their deflectionparry skills.. So berserkers get hit more, harder and do less DPS.. Sorry, I'm takin a break from the game until this gets resolved. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I mean.. Isn't that why most of us chose Berserker.. A DPS tank.. Someone who can deal damage and tank but take a few extraharder hits..  That was the description right? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Out of curiosity.. has anyone been able to stack Berserk procs or did that go away also?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <P>Message Edited by Grimgore on <SPAN class=date_text>01-07-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>02:26 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>Just thought I'd open your eyes to the reality of this game.  Guardians do more DPS than wizards from levels 10-22 and levels 37-50.  Doing guardian DPS actually isn't bad.  Guardians are very underated in the DPS department.  When they attempt to do DPS, they aren't even that far behind monks.</P>

[asteldian]

<DIV>The fact that doing DPS equal to a guardian isnt bad DPS at all isnt the issue, the fact that doing the same DPS and having inferior hp/AC and tanking ability means we are a class of no use</DIV>

[Vanes]

<DIV>Thats all kind of the point tho isn't it?  So many people keep saying that Bloodlust was screwed up, needed fixed, and we should expect to be where we are.  But without being in almost a constant state of Berserk a Berserker does on par damage with a Guardian....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yet a Guardian has higher AC/HP due to their powerset, and better damage mitigation.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Which when you combine the Bloodlust, the DPS reduction, the Damage Mitigation reduction, the nerfing of our level 50 ability, the nerfing of Blood Rage a few weeks ago, I simply do not see the justification.  I see the changes they are making as being 100% unbalancing, and biased towards a single class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What I see justification of is SOE changing the discription of Bloodlust, removing the agro component of going Berserk and leaving it at that.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Then you have Guardians/SK's/Paladins being able to taunt off Zerkers in groups where they are the MT, and you leave Berserkers as what they are listed and supposed to be in everything put out by SOE relating to the class, the best DPS of the non monk tank classes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Their solution, blindly changing a skill to match a discription which it has never matched and not even considering the effects to the class, or the class's overall balance and effectiveness was foolish.  Just because Bloodlust was working the reverse that it was discribed to do, does not mean that the discribed way of having it perform was the more balanced.  Bloodlust was not a skill that started performing wrong a few weeks ago, so far as I know it has ALWAYS worked backwords, in which case I do not see that you can simply change it to be what it is discribed as without some serious serious thought and looking at the class as a whole.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Frankly things were pretty well balanced, the only thing that needed changed was the agro.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Personally my feeling is if I'm going to have Zerk go off so much less, then it SHOULD be a agro.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Vanessa</DIV>

[Arsen]

<DIV>Maybe a different perspective on this issue might help - ask yourself, "Should one skill give me a 40% increase in DPS?".</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Most people would say No... unless you are very low in level.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Classes should scale up in power one level at a time, with each skill being useful and adding to that classes power.  The fact that people are talking about the class being unplayable due to one skill being broken for a couple days says something about this class... YOU NEED MORE USEFUL SKILLS!  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think you are barking up the wrong tree arguing for Bloodlust to be restored.  <EM>By the very parse logs shown here, you can pretty much confirm that the skill may have been the single most powerful skill in the game. </EM> A 40% DPS increase with ONE skill - holy cow!  No way SOE will bring it back like it was.  That doesn't mean the class is "fixed" though - you need to start arguing for your other underpowered and broken skills to be fixed in order to regain your power.</DIV>

[Vanes]

<DIV>Eh our entire class is based and built around being Berserk.  If you remove it, there is nothing to define the class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>With nothing to define the class, it sinks to the lowest end of the scale.  Every other tank class has something that defines them.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Personally I see no issue, none, with being Berserk almost all the time in fights.  The issue was not that with ANY class that I saw, no one was complaining about Berserker damage that I remember.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>They were complaining it was impossible to get agro from a Berserker due to Berserk counting as a buff and gaining MOB agro.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have 0 problem with Berserk not causing agro.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I do have a problem with nerfs that no one asked for.  I have a problem with ANY nerf, when so many 20+ skills simply do not function correctly and need fixed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Vanessa</DIV>

[Quil]

<DIV>Bloodlust doesnt increase DPS by that much directly actually.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>IF you were a beserker you'd understand, bloodlust does in a way add DPS by increasing offense skills.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The DPS is gained from being in a beserk state,which bloodlust allowed us to do,sadly most of the other skills that cause beserk don't work,leaving very few options.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Point being,we need bloodlust because other stuff is borked.</DIV>

[Arsen]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Quillo wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The DPS is gained from being in a beserk state,which bloodlust allowed us to do,sadly most of the other skills that cause beserk don't work,leaving very few options.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Point being,we need bloodlust because other stuff is borked.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Or you just need your other stuff to be fixed.  I still think my point is valid that no class should ever be so completely dependent on one particular skill.<BR>

[Vanes]

<DIV>Well which do you think is more likely?  That SOE will over the short term fix many broken skills or that we could possibly get one skill made useful again?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>From what i've seen so far I put my money on asking for something thats plausable.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Vanessa</DIV>