where is the love? erm, DPS even.

[souLou]

Hey guys, sorry about this i dont want to start another [Removed for Content] contenst, but im another warrior comming up to the vital choice stage, and having looked at both classes, have decided to go zerker. It seems they can tank almost as good as a guardian. Well enough at least to take on the role of main tank with no problems at all, the only thing is, i understand that zerkers sacrafice that little bit of defense for some extra offense, and im wondering what kind of DPS they do.Obviously im not expecting them to rival the likes of assasins and wizards, but just how good are they? Because it would be nice to think that groups would value my offensive efforts on top of the tanking, or should i just not waste my power on attacking, and focus it all on defense? (this then makes me think i should do guardian).Thoughts on the DPS please. Thanks for all replys <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Viz]

<DIV>Unless you are DW with some really uber gear, you will be outdamaged by brawlers/rogues/caster...don't be expected to be invited to a group for DPS.</DIV>

[Ipwnj]

<DIV>I feel your pain.  Blood fury was our dps, that got nerfed into uselessness now, and we are just dreadful as a result.  No damage, and can t take a beating like a guardian.  After 24 levels and 25 levels of crafting I am rerolling, and finding it hard to stay in EQ2.  Disappointment sucks! <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[souLou]

<DIV>But if your DPS is rubbish, and you cant tank like a guardian... whats the point in being a zerker?</DIV> <DIV>I was originally going to go the zerker route but im not so sure now.  Groups wouldnt want a zerker for DPS because they could fill that slot with a mage or scout, and why would they want a zerker as a tank when they could have a guardian?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Im all confused <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[netswine]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> souLouri wrote:<BR> <DIV>But if your DPS is rubbish, and you cant tank like a guardian... whats the point in being a zerker?</DIV> <DIV>I was originally going to go the zerker route but im not so sure now.  Groups wouldnt want a zerker for DPS because they could fill that slot with a mage or scout, and why would they want a zerker as a tank when they could have a guardian?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Im all confused <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>Aggro my man. Aggro is the answer.</P> <P>I play a Monk. Sometimes, when  I chain-cast my attacks, I take away the aggro away from Guardians and Paladins. I have never, even once, taken the aggro from a Berserker. My wife is a cleric, and she prefers the berserker style of tanking because she gets to heal only the berserker and noone else. My friend is a wizard, and he can nuke like a madman, and the berserker is there, steadfast, holding the aggro. All this gets more evident in the latter levels.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[souLou]

<DIV>ah right ok, thats a good thing.</DIV> <DIV>I was initally going zerker because i regularly group my with friend who is a druid, about to turn Warden, as they get more defensive spells than the fury.  So zerker would be a good choice so i can deal a bit more damage, and should tank fine with his defense spells.</DIV> <DIV>Its encouraging to hear that zerkers are good with the aggro, because sometimes its quite hard to keep aggro off him when i am tanking with my warrior.</DIV>

[magui]

<DIV>Unfortunately ill have to agree here. Once the class roles begin to spread out at higher levels you begin to see berserker DPS fall drasitcally in comparison with scouts/casters.... and then to make it worse Guardians tanking ability dwarfs our own.... Bloodlust is the only reason berserkers hold such good aggro and thats only because raging currently draws too much aggro, which is not intended... Once they change that, Ill have wasted my time playing the class.... I pay to have fun, they change completely the character I thought I had, but offer me no recourse in turn and then ask me to upgrade my account...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In the end, its all a business ... bottom line</DIV> <DIV>They don't care about you or me</DIV>

[AlienR]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> netswine wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> souLouri wrote:<BR> <DIV>But if your DPS is rubbish, and you cant tank like a guardian... whats the point in being a zerker?</DIV> <DIV>I was originally going to go the zerker route but im not so sure now.  Groups wouldnt want a zerker for DPS because they could fill that slot with a mage or scout, and why would they want a zerker as a tank when they could have a guardian?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Im all confused <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>Aggro my man. Aggro is the answer.</P> <P>I play a Monk. Sometimes, when  I chain-cast my attacks, I take away the aggro away from Guardians and Paladins. I have never, even once, taken the aggro from a Berserker. My wife is a cleric, and she prefers the berserker style of tanking because she gets to heal only the berserker and noone else. My friend is a wizard, and he can nuke like a madman, and the berserker is there, steadfast, holding the aggro. All this gets more evident in the latter levels.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> With the impending nerf to Blood Lust coming, I don't see this being something we will be able to use as a viable reason for getting groups any longer.  Re-roll now and save yourself the agony of doing it any later.  If they don't change it or actually do something useful for zerkers in it's place, then at least you'll still have your zerker to continue playing.  Honestly, the only useful thing that I believe they can do for zerkers after nerfing our aggro capabilities is to significantly increase our damage potential, seeing that we don't mitigate as well as guardians and won't be able to develop as much aggro post Blood Lust nerf patch.  Call me crazy.

[ArgosyAxeGrind]

<DIV>You know, I find it ironic that no matter which subclass board I read, the sky is always falling and the grass is so much greener on the other side. Guardians say that they are not good at tanking because they can't hold aggro like a bezerker, bezerkers complain that once Bloodlust is fixed they won't be able to hold aggro nor tank as well as a guardian, Paladins and Shadowknights complain they are never taken as main tanks since Bezerkers and Guardians are so much better. Everyone else thinks the Bruisers and Monks are the BEST tanks because they avoid damage like mad, but if you read on the monk board, they complain that if they get hit with a "round" of 2-3 hits, they will go down too quickly and can't tank well enough (like a guardian or zerker). </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So who is right, are all the fighters equally broke or is it just easier to complain about what is wrong with a class rather than to see what is right with the class?</DIV>

[Keth]

<DIV> <DIV>From ArgosyAxeGrinder: " You know, I find it ironic that no matter which subclass board I read, the sky is always falling and the grass is so much greener on the other side. Guardians say that they are not good at tanking because they can't hold aggro like a bezerker, bezerkers complain that once Bloodlust is fixed they won't be able to hold aggro nor tank as well as a guardian, Paladins and Shadowknights complain they are never taken as main tanks since Bezerkers and Guardians are so much better. Everyone else thinks the Bruisers and Monks are the BEST tanks because they avoid damage like mad, but if you read on the monk board, they complain that if they get hit with a "round" of 2-3 hits, they will go down too quickly and can't tank well enough (like a guardian or zerker). </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So who is right, are all the fighters equally broke or is it just easier to complain about what is wrong with a class rather than to see what is right with the class? "</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Amen to that</DIV></DIV>

[LumpyD]

<DIV>If we are all complaining, then maybe we aren't too far off from equilibrium... <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I plan to make an evil assasin someday soon.. 33 levels as a zerker already.. now I want to see the evil side and go to Freeport. =P</DIV>

[AlienR]

<DIV>There are answers to all those questions.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Guardians feel slighted ONLY because zerkers can wear the same armor, do more damage and hold aggro better than they do.  In the present state....they have every reason to be upset...there is no disputing that.  Take away Blood Lust aggro and what is left?  That we wear the same armor and do more damage.....which is exactly what the class description says we're supposed to do.  We're an offensive warrior.  They are defensive.  So once both sub-classes are on even playing fields when talking about aggro, who is more desireable for tanking?  If you answer berzerker....you are lieing to yourself.  It's a no brainer that groups can fight harder content with a tank that won't cause a healer to go out of power before a battle is done.  Plain and simple.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Crusaders sacrifice quite a bit to have a horse ability....no question about that.  I've yet to see any hard numbers stating that they tank any better or worse than a zerker, but I've also yet to group with one equal in level that couldn't tank every bit as good as I do.  Their major flaw is aggro ability and the need to use group buffs on pulls to initiate aggro and sustain it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Monks have the same complaint they've always had in that they have to rely on luck with the RNG in hopes of avoiding most incomming damage in order to tank effectively.  I lived with that trait for 3 years in eq1 and that's why I didn't make a bruiser in this game.  They do on the other hand perform quite well as a damage dealer in groups.  No they aren't as good as a scout class or mage, but they fill that role better than a zerker.  I won't even bring up feign death in this conversation, because frankly I feel it's a joke what they've done with it in this game.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Where does that leave us....oh ya....the berzerker.  Take away the aggro created by Blood Lust and we're exactly where SoE wanted us to be in the first place.  A damaging tank that doesn't mitigate as well as a guardian and holds aggro comparibly to all other tanking subclasses.  If a group is looking for a tank, their likely to ask a guardian to fill that slot....not a zerker or a monk.  Once they fill that slot they'll be looking for some dps, and that will be filled with scouts, mages and even monks....not guardians or zerkers.  Berzerkers kind of fit in like a red headed step child if you ask me.  Do what you want, if you will have fun with that scenario then by all means stick with a zerker.</DIV>

[souLou]

yeah but you're missing the point...Zerker aggro is kind of a big appeal. Without the aggro we're just either a weak dps class, or a tank class with less taunting/defensive abilities than a guardian.Who'd want to group with a zerker then?

[asteldian]

<DIV>Its just a case of wait and see, atm our aggro is amazing and its a great reason to be zerker, once they nerf...er, i mean 'fix', bloodlust then we will have to see how our aggro is, if things go as badly as people fear then the zerker will be of little use to anyone, but if our aggro is still excellent then there is no reason to dismis zerker</DIV>

[ZerenBloodBa]

<DIV>I honestly have not seen any problem with my DPS.  Some fights I am able to outdamage certain DPS classes depending on if I can use my skills a lot or if I must be conservative so the tank can hold aggro.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I wield 2 pretty high damage very fast weapons.  I keep all my group buffs and self buffs up that help with my damage and casue me to go berserk.  When I do go berserker there is no stopping me, I litteraly don't stop swinging until the mob goes down.  With wound, mangle, knee break, forced swing, etc. I get plenty of damage out to make myself useful.  Sure the patches changed some of our skills but I honestly don't see why everyone is complaining.  With my weapon setup I have no problem doing enough damage.</DIV>

[Jher]

<DIV>Well, I guess it depends on how bloodlust gets 'fixed'. Many of us agree that right now, BL generates too much aggro - Sure it is nice when MTing, but devalues our potential as secondary tanks, and understandably causes grumbles from the Guardians...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>IF</STRONG> Bloodlust is fixed so that it regularly procs when a group member is hit (instead of when we hit the enemy) as the ability description states, so that we are still in a fairly constant berserk state, but the aggro generation from each berserk proc is reduced somewhat, then we will be no worse off, and some might say we might actually be in a better situation. Still able to produce good DPS, AND offtank when the situation requires, without instant aggro pull, hence fewer complaints from the Guardians.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If however the powers that be decide to fix the aggro problem by simply reducing the proc rate massively then we're in for some bad times. To those people saying they'll still be ok because we put out good DPS - we won't any more, as a <STRONG>huge</STRONG> amount of our DPS at the moment comes from the fact that we are in permanent berserk state with bloodlust. Lets face it, without the berserk state, we're guardians with less defensive buffs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Not saying that the sky is falling yet. We don't know. I only hope that SOE picks the right path here.</DIV>