Finish this MT group composition...

[Wilin]

So, if you have a:guardian,inquisitor,dirge,defiler, and no coercers,swashies,templars.---What are the last 2 spots?What about:guardian,inquisitor,dirge and no defilers,coercers, swashies,templars.---What are the last 3 spots?Thanks

[Krokous]

Perfect one (by me): Guard, Warden, Defiler, Templar, Swash, Dirge. Btw your question is bit crappy when you r in position to be mt you should know at least something about other classes

[ReviloTX]

He didn't ask for the perfect MT group, he asked how to make the ones he suggested better (or to fill them out).  I'm sure he's aware of what he'd like to have in his MT group, we don't all have the luxury of picking from any class available.

[Ajil]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Wilin wrote:<BR>So, if you have a:<BR><BR>guardian,inquisitor,dirge,defiler, and no coercers,swashies,templars.<BR><BR>---What are the last 2 spots?<BR><BR>What about:<BR><BR>guardian,inquisitor,dirge and no defilers,coercers, swashies,templars.<BR><BR>---What are the last 3 spots?<BR><BR>Thanks<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Guard, Inquis, Dirge, Defiler, Warden, Assassin</P> <P>Guard, Inquis, Dirge, Warden, Assassin, Mystic</P> <P>(that's my take)<BR></P>

[Wilin]

<blockquote><hr>ReviloTX wrote:He didn't ask for the perfect MT group, he asked how to make the ones he suggested better (or to fill them out).  I'm sure he's aware of what he'd like to have in his MT group, we don't all have the luxury of picking from any class available.<hr></blockquote>--->Exactly.<blockquote><hr>Ajilon wrote:Guard, Inquis, Dirge, Defiler, Warden, AssassinGuard, Inquis, Dirge, Warden, Assassin, Mystic<hr></blockquote>--->Thanks, that's what I've tried and it worked well enough but I wasn't sure if there might be something better out there given the constraints. Maybe swapping more hate from somewhere(other than coercer/swashie) in place of the third healer?

[Aandien]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> <P>Wilin wrote:<BR>So, if you have a:<BR><BR>guardian,inquisitor,dirge,defiler, and no coercers,swashies,templars.<BR><BR>---What are the last 2 spots?<BR><BR>What about:<BR><BR>guardian,inquisitor,dirge and no defilers,coercers, swashies,templars.<BR><BR>---What are the last 3 spots?<BR><BR>Thanks<BR></P> <P></P> <HR> <P>add a mystic -- 3% chance to improve the proc rate of your dirge's stoneskin.  It's even better if you have a templar...drop the defiler.</P> <P>add a plate tank -- have them give you their avoidance buff.  50ish % chance to use their avoidance..which includes the 23.9% block rate they should have which is uncontested.  So it increases your avoidance by approximately 12% on epics.</P> <P>By adding those two classes you have removed 15% incoming damage.  If you were able to have a templar there over an inquistor then it would be an additional 18% (6% from the mystic, and 12% from the plate tank).</P> <P>For your other 1 or 2 spots -- if you have aggro issues on your raid, add an assassin.  If you don't and have extra healers, add a warden or fury.</P> <P><BR></P></BLOCKQUOTE>

[atjtennis]

<DIV>Ok here are several different options</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For the 1 with 2 spots to fill</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>guardian,inquisitor,dirge,defiler,assassin,sk/pally (more hate and more mit)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>guardian,inquisitor,dirge,defiler,assassin,conjure r (more hate and more mit and some more resis)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>guardian,inquisitor,dirge,defiler,assassin,necroma ncer (more hate and more HP and some more resis)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>guardian,inquisitor,dirge,defiler,assassin,illusio nist (more hate and you get a bunch of haste and some more resis)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>the running theme here is assassin for sure for the extra hate if you don't need the hate then drop the assassin and stick in something else, ie a monk or any 2 of the classes I have listed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For the 1 with 3 spots to fill</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>again 2 classes that will be in every set up would be a mystic and an assassin</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>then you can pick your third class from these shadowknight,paladin,monk,conjurer,necromancer,and illusionist</DIV><p>Message Edited by atjtennis on <span class=date_text>12-13-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:30 PM</span>

[Sirlutt]

Assassin and one other.<div></div>

[Sokolov]

Depending on your raid's strength, you may try doubling up Furies in the MT group.  Back-to-back Urchin is extremely powerful for an MT that is not as well geared.   Likewise, I have also had some success with a Defiler + Mystic combo.  On mobs where it matters, the doubling of the Wards will not be an issue as it gets wiped as fast as it is put up.  The ability to allow the Mystic to use Oberon without compromising normal Warding and debuffing is potent as well.I will often use Paladins and Conjurors in the MT group, as they both have the ability to buff Mitigation.  You may also want to consider what you are fighting and put in the proper classes for the right resists.  Surprisingly a Warlock can often be a good fill in for the MT group as they can siphon group power and offers casting skill buffs.  Additionally, the Warlock EoF AAs are incredible, one augmenting hate gain/loss abilities in the group and another increasing trigger chances of spells by 3%.<div></div>

[TuinalOfTheNexus]

Mit buffer is a waste of a slot with the new dimishing returns curve. It's all about DPS/hate generation and having a Shaman to ward (because you simply can't take 3 mobs that hit for 5k otherwise) in EoF.

[Sokolov]

It depends on far up the curve you are and what your other choices are.  Just giving him options =)<div></div>

[Judist]

<P><FONT color=#ff3300>add a mystic -- 3% chance to improve the proc rate of your dirge's stoneskin.  It's even better if you have a templar...<U>drop the defiler.</U></FONT></P> <P>Lol, you almost got me there. Has to be a joke. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Good one.</P> <P>Unless you actually dont want the healer with the largest amount of Pure HP buffs. Or the MT buff that procs a -36% DPS and -26% Haste debuff on anything attacking you... Or the occassional 7k soul ward (depending on defilers HP)....</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Super Du]

get templar if u can instead of quiz, rest looks sexy, if u need more agro add assassin... if you manage fine you can slap just about anything there... sk would be fun although 450 mit won't do that much... avoid buff sure is nice... u have whole load of time to play with each to find best combo that works for you and your guild  /sex

[SeBazNitch]

<div><blockquote><hr>Super Du wrote:<div></div>get templar if u can instead of quiz, rest looks sexy, if u need more agro add assassin... if you manage fine you can slap just about anything there... sk would be fun although 450 mit won't do that much... avoid buff sure is nice... u have whole load of time to play with each to find best combo that works for you and your guild  /sex<hr></blockquote>I got a Templar for you Weakling.</div>

[Shawna Hiet]

<P>MT groups IMO</P> <P> </P> <P>Should be Gaurd/Templar/fury/defiler/direge/    corcer,assassin or swashy</P> <P> </P> <P>Templar for Sancuary, very useful/fury for their urchin and fast heals/defiler for well wards and hp buffs,  dirge well everything good about them /corcer well resist and hate...dps buff.  Assassin for hate or swasy for hate and have cool hate proc buffs that are but on npc even more hate.</P> <P> </P> <P>An illusionist in MT group Makes no sence at all.. They should be in a diifernt group. maybe with melle group for haste buffs, Maybe crusader or conjor for thier mit and resists.  With the new conjor heal pet it stacks with all other wards and heals.  Very cool toy.  </P> <P>Message Edited by Shawna Hiet on <SPAN class=date_text>12-14-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>08:41 AM</SPAN></P> <P>Message Edited by Shawna Hiet on <SPAN class=date_text>12-14-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>08:42 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Shawna Hiet on <span class=date_text>12-14-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:45 AM</span>

[Aandien]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> BeatinGuts wrote:<BR> <P><FONT color=#ff3300>add a mystic -- 3% chance to improve the proc rate of your dirge's stoneskin.  It's even better if you have a templar...<U>drop the defiler.</U></FONT></P> <P>Lol, you almost got me there. Has to be a joke. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Good one.</P> <P>Unless you actually dont want the healer with the largest amount of Pure HP buffs. Or the MT buff that procs a -36% DPS and -26% Haste debuff on anything attacking you... Or the occassional 7k soul ward (depending on defilers HP)....<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>If you don't find value in completely nullifying 6% more incoming damage, and instead you believe the +378hp is greater -- then your welcome to keep your defiler in the MT group.</P> <P>And while Tendrils of Horror is certaintly a good spell -- its unnecessary if you have a good debuffing team.. a mystic + bard by themselves will almost cap out the haste/dps debuffs on the entire encounter anyway.</P> <P>I will agree that soul ward though is certaintly useful.  You can still use it though at least on pulls..just swap in the defiler right quick before the pull and then swap them back out...</P> <P>Regardless though, 6% avoidance prevents more damage than soul ward does over time -- and the +378hp that a defiler brings vs a mystic (with the right AA's) is still not valuable enough to lose the extra avoid.</P> <P>You don't have to believe me though -- just try it out one time and make sure your mystic has ancestry up on you and then look at your parses and compare.</P>

[Sir_Halbarad]

<div><blockquote><hr>Wilin wrote:So, if you have a:guardian,inquisitor,dirge,defiler, and no coercers,swashies,templars.---What are the last 2 spots?What about:guardian,inquisitor,dirge and no defilers,coercers, swashies,templars.---What are the last 3 spots?Thanks<hr></blockquote>guardian,inquisitor,dirge,defiler, <b>Assassin, Swashbuckler</b>guardian,inquisitor,dirge, <b>Mystic, Assassin, Swashbuckler</b> I like Hate personally... and I like a Shaman in my grp.</div>

[Judist]

<P>Aye, both classes are useful no doubt. However it takes Tendrils to come even close to maxing out a -100% dps & haste debuff. Dont forget almost every named epic and many named heroics start with a positive percentage in these 2 mods. Getting a named from +30 to -100 takes a little bit of effort to maintain.</P> <P>Defiler alone can maintain               -36% DPS -40% Haste (typical numbers of a debuff class)<BR>Defiler with Tendrils can maintain   -73% DPS -66% Haste</P> <P>IMO having those kinda numbers from 1 class is worthwhile... Not to mention the 1951 HP, 732 mit and 75 Str from a mastered defiler.</P> <P> </P>

[khufure]

Guardian + 3 healer archetypes + dirge + X is the standard and proven formula.  Not having one of the healer archetypes is asking for death. X is going to depend on what you are raiding and what your gear is.  Normally we use a hate buffer in our raids.  Some people have mentioned that they use MIT buffer, or even warlock now.  But I haven't really seen people mention two other ideas.  Call me crazy <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />- Brawler.  In today's avoidance world, isn't the brawler avoidance buff interesting?  Normally you see this in an OT group, but what about MT?- Mystic (?).  In today's mitigation sucks world, isn't avoidance.. or HP king?  Why have shaman vs. shaman debates when you can have shaman + shaman?!<div></div>

[Grimchaos87]

hey there, I was just looking for more info on classes in the MT group and stumbled on this little topic, and seeing the last post decided to put in my 2 cents.  Brawler avoidence buff isnt worth much in a raid situation.  in Offencive stance we have 0 uncontested avoidence, which totals out to very very little acutal avoidence vs an epic.  I sit at roughly 51% avoidence in off stance when i'm solo because I am specced for dps, add dirge and other avoidence buffs and I might get to 55 in offencive.  all that is contested both vs mob to hit, and the type of mob (epic, named, lvl).  against an epic mob my actual avoidence in offencive stance would honestly in all probabuility be less then 10%, I'd guess 5, so you would be MUCH better off with a plate tank that can give 20% uncontested avoidece by just wearing a tower shield even if they are in offencive stance.  A brawler in Defencive stance with a M1 of the stance only gets 12% uncontested avoidence.  in a raid situation you would have about 70% avoidence, and 12% of that is uncontested.  honestly any plate tank wearing a tower shield gives more actual avoidence, not to mention a bit of mit if you add a sk or pally.  all brawlers give is 21% haste, or 25% dps depending on which brawler you pick.  Just my two cents being a brawler myself <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.  However if its a pally tank a brawler does a TON for that pally.  brawlers can gain hate like mad, and with taunting stance on its hard to compete with the amount of hate we can generate.  so amends + brawler = a great amount of agro for the pally.<div></div>