Raid Tanks AA lines

[Grimb]

this is what i currently have choosen for AA lines for my 70 guardian.str tree4,4,7,8wis line4,4,5,5,1i would like to hear what yall think about this being i am a raid tank and would like to hear what yall have found to work good for t7 raid zones.<div></div>

[Choombatta]

Personally, as a raid tank I choose :Str: 4/4/4/8Wis: 4/4/5/8/1The last ability in the Wis line became alot more attractive after the combat revamp to me personally.<div></div>

[Aven Elonis]

<P>Currently using Agi (8/4/5/<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> and Wis (4/4/8/<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.</P> <P>Once Agression Skill is put in (see other forum posts) and Migitation is fixed (again see other forum posts), I'll likely change these again. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[Sir_Halbarad]

<div><blockquote><hr>Grimbor wrote:this is what i currently have choosen for AA lines for my 70 guardian.str tree4,4,7,8wis line4,4,5,5,1i would like to hear what yall think about this being i am a raid tank and would like to hear what yall have found to work good for t7 raid zones.<div></div><hr></blockquote>STR 4,4,8,8INT 4,5,8,8</div>

[tashanin]

Personally, I've geared myself the followingStr 4/4/4/5Agi 4/4/4/4Wis 4/4/4/4Felt that it gave me the most bang for the point.  <div></div>

[kOOtsa]

4,4,8,8 str 5,4,8,8 sta<div></div>

[Mjollnyr]

Str: 4/4/8/8 Agi: 4/4/5/4/8 <div></div>

[Grimb]

well i have noticed alot of the guardians on different places are going STR and Wis/Agiwas wondering what yall thought about maybe the INT line for the parry bonus but i think that the AA's could use a little twik here and there to but who knows maybe soon<div></div>

[Bochista]

AGI Tree4,4,4,8INT Tree4,4,4,8<div></div>

[Dragonlancer]

<DIV>Agi 4/4/4/8</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Int 4/4/4/8</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>what ever was left I put it in STA</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Guardian Line</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Crippling and Slaughtering </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Enhanced Plant 5 also</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So Far all is good and easy to heal</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Dalthenn]

Hmm, interesting that there really isn't a preferred AA line for raid tanking.Anyone care to expand a bit why you chose that line? I'd like to learn more from our experienced raid tanks in hopes of one day be able to gear and set myself up for raid tanking.<div></div>

[Sir_Halbarad]

<div><blockquote><hr>Dalthenn wrote:Hmm, interesting that there really isn't a preferred AA line for raid tanking.Anyone care to expand a bit why you chose that line? I'd like to learn more from our experienced raid tanks in hopes of one day be able to gear and set myself up for raid tanking.<div></div><hr></blockquote>I am not sure whether I would pass your definiton of an experienced raid tank, but here is the logic behind my setup:I was speced in STA 4-5-8-8-0 and WIS 4-4-8-8-0.First, I got the impression that I now need a tower shield to survive vs. Epic Named Mobs. Those uncontested 19.9% (made to 22.9% with the right adornments) are supposed to make keeping me alive easier.That means I'd lose the dps from my buckler line...so I need more hate -> STR Line 4-4-4-8-0 at least...Another point of the combat change was the relative uselesness of mit (once you are past a certain level between 5-6k). That meant I could use the points from WIS elsewhere - Some choose AGI for Defense, some choose INT for Parry.I chose INT because a) my defense is higher than my parry and b) INT has haste while I don't like the AGI abilities 2 and 3 that much. Of course there is the 12 sec "Oh Sh*t" ability... But I chose INT in the end.With my current build of STR 4-4-8-8-0 and INT 4-5-8-8-0 I am pretty happy.My Hate generation is the same if not a bit better and my survivability is a tad better...More Parry, Crit Hits, a ton more haste and 10% more hate are a nice combo in my opinion.Although I have to agree that I might return to the buckler again... because in some other thread here there was an interesting point...What if riposte isn't a parry with damage (X% of parries turn into ripostes) as dev's said. What if riposte has his own chance...Then the additional riposte from Buckler would bring the buckler closer to the tower again.Undecided atm although I really like my current spec... I miss being in the top 5 of raid parses though <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[lostsandman]

<P>I am currently  STA 448 STR 448 and AGI 448. Anyway i did 2 runs of CoV mostly lvl 70+ mobs. One run with buckler (5% block) and another with tower shield (16% block, not got fable).</P> <P>The grousp are not always the same but my gear was pretty much the same other than the shields. Anyway here is what i found</P> <P>                    Block             Parry               Miss           riposte </P> <P>Buckler       30                  70                    130                 7</P> <P>Tower       136                67                     147                 8</P> <P>In both cases i had about 2k hits on me zone wide</P> <P> </P> <P>So i would love to see some one who has the 4th line in STA line do a run of CoV and post thier number....</P>

[Dalthenn]

<div><blockquote><hr><div>I am not sure whether I would pass your definiton of an experienced raid tank, but here is the logic behind my setup:I was speced in STA 4-5-8-8-0 and WIS 4-4-8-8-0.First, I got the impression that I now need a tower shield to survive vs. Epic Named Mobs. Those uncontested 19.9% (made to 22.9% with the right adornments) are supposed to make keeping me alive easier.That means I'd lose the dps from my buckler line...so I need more hate -> STR Line 4-4-4-8-0 at least...Another point of the combat change was the relative uselesness of mit (once you are past a certain level between 5-6k). That meant I could use the points from WIS elsewhere - Some choose AGI for Defense, some choose INT for Parry.I chose INT because a) my defense is higher than my parry and b) INT has haste while I don't like the AGI abilities 2 and 3 that much. Of course there is the 12 sec "Oh Sh*t" ability... But I chose INT in the end.With my current build of STR 4-4-8-8-0 and INT 4-5-8-8-0 I am pretty happy.My Hate generation is the same if not a bit better and my survivability is a tad better...More Parry, Crit Hits, a ton more haste and 10% more hate are a nice combo in my opinion.Although I have to agree that I might return to the buckler again... because in some other thread here there was an interesting point...What if riposte isn't a parry with damage (X% of parries turn into ripostes) as dev's said. What if riposte has his own chance...Then the additional riposte from Buckler would bring the buckler closer to the tower again.Undecided atm although I really like my current spec... I miss being in the top 5 of raid parses though <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><hr></blockquote>One more question. So for those taking on the STA line, you mean to tell me that you tank an epic ^^^ mob with a buckler shield!?Now, I've never seen a buckler shield with stats decent enough to tank a raid epic mob, then again I'm sort of new to the raid tanking area.</div>

[Sir_Halbarad]

<div><blockquote><hr>Dalthenn wrote:One more question. <div>So for those taking on the STA line, you mean to tell me that you tank an epic ^^^ mob with a buckler shield!?Now, I've never seen a buckler shield with stats decent enough to tank a raid epic mob, then again I'm sort of new to the raid tanking area.</div><hr></blockquote>Yes, before EoF the Buckler was the preferred shield of maybe 80% (maybe even higher) of Guardian Raid Tanks. Because of the dps boost. And KoS was/is all about dps. To keep up with the dps of your raid, you had to dish out some massive dps as well -> double attack from buckler line.In KoS there were 3 (later 4) bucklers for tanks: Azjeroz (spelling?) Guard (HoF), Ironplate Shielding (PoA), Archaic Buckler (HoS) and later the buckler from Matron (The King of T7 before EoF release).The loss of avoidance meant you would get hit a bit more, but over the whole fight you would take less damage because you could hold aggro vs. higher raid dps.A viable tactic for tanking raid mobs with buckler spec is to hotkey our Tower Shield, Tower of Stone and your buckler next to each other. On the pull, equip your Tower Shield, activate ToS and when the mob is debuffed, reequip your buckler.I hope that helps.Hal</div>

[Dalthenn]

Thanks Hal.Is this still the case with the new MIT changes or are you guys (raid tanks) going back to the tower shield?<div></div>

[Sir_Halbarad]

<div><blockquote><hr>Dalthenn wrote:Thanks Hal.Is this still the case with the new MIT changes or are you guys (raid tanks) going back to the tower shield?<div></div><hr></blockquote>Personally I respecced to STR and INT... But thinking about going to STR and STA...</div>

[ReviloTX]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dalthenn wrote:<BR>Hmm, interesting that there really isn't a preferred AA line for raid tanking.<BR><BR>Anyone care to expand a bit why you chose that line? I'd like to learn more from our experienced raid tanks in hopes of one day be able to gear and set myself up for raid tanking.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>More than likely a "preferred" setup will surface with EoF content eventually, and it may very well revolve around what gear is available (and may not yet be discovered).  We just don't have enough data yet.  There are many raid forces that have jumped into EoF raiding, but there are others that have taken some time to explore the expansion and haven't done a lot of EoF raiding yet.  I'm sure that those who are raiding heavily have looked at parses and determined what their optimal setup is, but they aren't talking yet because they want to hold their edge as long as they can.</P> <P>Personally, I have parsed a little bit of EoF raid data out of FTH and I am currently spec'd 5/4/8/8 sta and 4/4/8/8 wis (still holding my KoS spec for now).  I checked against 10 or so trash mobs with my buckler, and about the same number of mobs using a fabled tower shield, and my avoidance was exactly the same.  My dps was roughly 200 lower with the tower.  Personally, I'm going to stick with this for now, but I'm actually considering the idea of removing my penalties from my stances (not quite sure what I'd be willing to drop for it though).  My dps has decreased considerably, and I'm attributing that to the reduction of attack skills on defensive stance.</P> <P>Anyhow, until I can see ample data that proves a buckler is not working anymore, I'm sticking with it (just got a fabled one from EoF anyhow <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />).</P>

[Tucan]

<div></div>I'm thinking of a respec now myself, but I'm a bit on the fence:Pre-EoF I used the Str (4/4/8/<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> and Wis (4/4/8/<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> lines with a couple points in Sta for the HP's.  For some reason using a buckler instead of a tower irked me, so I never went that route, and we typically went with 2 healers and a dirge/coercer for hate boost and swash or assassin for xfer, so aggro was fairly solid. After EoF came out, we pretty much had to drop the aggro xfer in favor of a 3rd healer in the MT group just to stay alive, so aggro was more of an issue.  It also seemed the focus had been shifted from maxing mit to maxing avoidance due to the cap changes and mit diminishing returns, so I respec'd to Str and Int (same basic 4/4/8/8 layout).  Now, with agression in the game and avoidance "tweaked" again, I'm considering going back to the Wis line again for a couple reasons:1) The last AA skill in Wis (which removes the +atk penalties from the def stance) seems much more viable now2) I feel like I'm saddled with alot of +mit jewelery (like the claymore stuff and light chitin rings) that I'd drop in a flash if it wasn't for the mit loss, which I can balance out with the Wis line3) The +10% double attack from the guardian tree should also help with aggro, and I wasn't sure if this stacked with the buckler line bonusPre-EoF I've tanked just about all of the KoS instances (DT Dragons, HoS, Lyceum DT etc..) successfully with the Str/Wis setup.  Since EoF, we've gone through Labs, Lyceum, DT and recently beat the shredder in Freethinkers using the Str/Int setup, but watching my healthbar in EoF was probably close to giving our healers a stroke, so I'm hopeful that a +mit boost will help settle down that spike damage a bit.On a side note, it'd be nice if they gave you a free respec every time they make a significant change in how your AA's worked... this is getting expensive!!<div></div>

[Dalthenn]

Tucan,Thanks for your thorough explanation. This really helps me a lot as an upcoming guardian that's gearing up for bigger encounters.I've been setup this way for a bit now: Wis 4/4/8/8, Sta 8, Int, 4/4/8/1With this setup I'm running around with about 8.1K Hps (self buffed) and close to, or over, 4.7K Mit.Then again, I'm not a full fledge raid tank.And yes, resetting AAs is costing a lot of gold lately.<div></div>

[Astery]

STR 4/4/8/8 INT 4/4/8/8been using this setup for about 2 weeks now, and pretty pleased with it. i like the added parry alot!as MT i use the tower shield, 1h sword (INT action for increased speed) to max defense, while as offtank i use 2h axe and critical action that comes with STR line.the +10% hate is a must nowadays, at least for me - 4% toward bot farmers, 4% toward DevTeam combat changes <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />))))i found the defense can be easier boosted with items, so replacing INT line with AGI doesnt sounds great to me.

[Ardors]

<DIV><FONT color=#0033ff>the +10% hate is a must nowadays</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0033ff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0033ff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>Isn't hate capped at 80% anyways? which, with a dirge and a coercer, is easily reached...</FONT></DIV>

[FuRiouSQ]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Ardors wrote:<div><font color="#0033ff">the +10% hate is a must nowadays</font></div> <div><font color="#0033ff"></font> </div> <div><font color="#0033ff"></font> </div> <div><font color="#ffffff">Isn't hate capped at 80% anyways? which, with a dirge and a coercer, is easily reached...</font></div><hr></blockquote>the Dige hate buff is now an aggression buff so your hate % is lower now so the extra 10% from str line will help but still not worth it with a coercer and dirge in mt group to me anyways. i sure do miss my DPS buckler line /cry...<div></div><p>Message Edited by FuRiouSQ on <span class=date_text>12-28-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:28 AM</span>

[Sir_Halbarad]

<div><blockquote><hr>FuRiouSQ wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Ardors wrote:<div><font color="#0033ff">the +10% hate is a must nowadays</font></div> <div><font color="#0033ff"></font> </div> <div><font color="#0033ff"></font> </div> <div><font color="#ffffff">Isn't hate capped at 80% anyways? which, with a dirge and a coercer, is easily reached...</font></div><hr></blockquote>the Dige hate buff is now an aggression buff so your hate % is lower now so the extra 10% from str line will help but still not worth it with a coercer and dirge in mt group to me anyways. i sure do miss my DPS buckler line /cry...<div></div><p>Message Edited by FuRiouSQ on <span class="date_text">12-28-2006</span> <span class="time_text">12:28 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Dirge Hate Buff still has hate... they changed the +STR part to +Aggression.I never read anything about a hate cap.On another note.... I respecced from STR/INT to STR/STA.Once mobs are debuffed, the dinner plate comes out and I do dps <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Worked good in Lyceum and Labs...</div>

[Domiuk]

<DIV>I am still Stamina , wisdom and have 6 points in int for the extra haste using a sword.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Mitigation no longer counts for what it was but 20% dps is also on the same line and those 8 points in mitigation give me a lot of leeway on changing my gear around to up avoidance and HPS while still keeping my mit above 5k.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I still use the buckler almost exclusively on trash and only swap to the tower when im taking spike damage and will hit tos.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Most nameds I will open with tower shield and will switch to buckler as soon as we have it stabilised and debuffed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I actually increasingly am finding that not only do I use a buckler but im back in offensive stance again and yes im including eof zones.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Fully raid buffed I sit at about 14k HPs and low 60s for both avoidance and mitigation and agro control is not a big issue for us at all in fact since eof our raidwide dps has gone through the roof and we get very little ping pong at all.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>To be fair my setup means im a little weak on aoe encounters but my strong dps means im rock solid on single target.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Its worth noting that although I use a buckler I still have an extra 4 points of block from adornments <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[TuinalOfTheNexus]

<P>I'm sorely tempted to go back to Str/Sta atm, but this next respec will be 1pp...</P> <P>We have two Guards, so I'm often alternating between MT'ing and DPS/OT/MA. My current spec is Str 4 4 4 8 and Agi 4 4 5 8 8. It basically gives me some semi-decent DPS with crits and AE auto-attack, max defense, and Dragoon's Reflexes has saved a raid a few times when the MT drops, giving healers time to switch targets.</P> <P>In terms of DPS, I use a 2H, which is decent (parses around 1200 if I'm in a DPS group), but is still way behind a buckler.</P> <P>That said, I do miss the raw DPS, and I'm thinking of just spec'ing Str 4 4 8 8 Sta 4 4 8 Int 4 6. It's probably the most DPS you can get from AA, with a lot of haste from the Int line, maxed melee crits and, of course, double attack. I'm thinking of deliberately missing out on the added buckler avoidance, since if I'm gonna tank a tough mob I'll be using a tower shield, whereas if it's trash 5% avoidance isn't gonna matter. </P>

[Plaz]

<P>hmmm...just a thought ....but think of this </P> <P> War Tree.............. Sta 4,4,8,8,...Wis 4,4,4,...Int 4,4,4,5</P> <P>Guard Tree............ Cripple and Block</P> <P> </P>

[Bathory72]

<div></div>my specStr: 4488Sta: 458810 % doubleattackBlocki really like it (hopefully i get my bucker of the howler tomorrow)<p>Message Edited by Bathory72 on <span class=date_text>01-03-2007</span> <span class=time_text>11:34 PM</span>

[LuckyLuck]

<DIV>my new setup:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Str: 4484</DIV> <DIV>Sta:4488</DIV> <DIV>int:41</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>going for 10% Double Attack and Block</DIV>

[aislynn00]

<P><STRONG>Warrior Abilities</STRONG></P> <P>Sta 4 / 4 / 8 / 8</P> <P>Wis 4 / 4 / 4 / 8</P> <P>Int 4 / 1</P> <P> </P> <P><STRONG>Guardian Abilities</STRONG></P> <P>Enhance: Command 3</P> <P>Enhance: Wall of Force 3</P> <P>Enhance: Plant 5</P> <P>Enhance: Stone Sphere 2</P> <P>Enhance: <Commit Suicide> 2</P> <P>Enhance: Tower of Stone 5</P> <P>Block</P> <P><EM></EM> </P> <P>Enhance: Overpower 5</P> <P>Enhance: Vindictive Strike 5</P> <P>Enhance: Flay 5</P> <P>Enhance: Lay Waste 5</P> <P>Double Attack</P> <P> </P> <P>Enhance: Rescue 3</P> <P>Enhance: Reinforcement 5</P>