guards still cant use symbols

[JNewby]

<DIV>so now pallies and sks acan use bows and while it doesnt matter since they already have a better option with symbols.. my quesiton is when can guards use symbols? being that bow pulling isnt the most reliable anymore anyhow and hte fact taht all the bows are all absolutly aweful as far as stats.. when are we gonna get something that is equilivant to symbols???</DIV>

[Judist]

<DIV>You'll never see a warrior class use symbols.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for bows, there are quite a few good ones out there. Dont forget you can use throwing weapons also. One of the best end level guardian picks is the Razorwing Bandolier<sp>.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[EpokSilvermo]

Aye, bows, tower shields, whats next? <span>:smileytongue:</span><div></div>

[coochic]

Come on, don't start crying please, act like big bad warriors and deal with it.

[Kaja]

Is it that big of a deal?  Guards are good tanks and don't need a symbol to enhance their stats where as a lot of SKs use them to up their Int which, in case you never noticed, is not all that common/great on plate armor.  

[Memmoch]

Symbol's are far and beyond better stat wise than any bow I've seen.  If crusador's get to use bows why can't warrior's get to use symbols? <div></div>

[JimmyMa]

So let me get this straight, you are all agreeing that bows have worse stats than symbols and yet some of you are throwing hissy fits that crusaders get to equip one now?What exactly would be the ranged attack a guardian would use with a symbol?Get over it.<div></div>

[Decade]

Which step of Claymore gives the Razorwind Bandolier as a reward? <div></div>

[Memmoch]

<hr size="2" width="100%"> JimmyMach wrote: So let me get this straight, you are all agreeing that bows have worse stats than symbols and yet some of you are throwing hissy fits that crusaders get to equip one now? What exactly would be the ranged attack a guardian would use with a symbol? Get over it. <hr size="2" width="100%"> I think that crusador's getting to use bows is fine, not sure where you get we're all up in arms about you guys useing bows.  I merly stated that if crusador's get to now use bows then warrior's should now get to use symbols.  Symbols have better stats (for resists etc) than bows, therefore are superior once the mob is back in camp.  So [Removed for Content] off <span>if you think it's fine crusador's should get bows but warrior's shouldn't be allowed to use symbol's  :smileytongue:</span> <div></div>

[coochic]

<P> Here's an idea for you, just ask SoE to take evrything you like in every class, and have them create for you guys who complain saying "other classes can....." and have SoE creat a cry baby class, taht nukes for 10k plus at lvl10 and on, and heals, for the same, give you some 5K plus wards and more defence buffs then you can shake a raid mob at. Then, all you'll have to cry about is why this cry baby can hit for 5 HP's more than you? maybe then, the symbol won't look like such a big deal? </P><p>Message Edited by coochic on <span class=date_text>11-26-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:31 PM</span>

[Baldaena]

<DIV>Symbol, bow, towershield... all these items were given to paladin/sk.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I see 2 solutions :</DIV> <DIV>1- Soe try to make all fighters identical, so I don't understand why guardian can't have symbol and bruiser can't have bow</DIV> <DIV>2- paladin/sk are impotent and need boost, so soe give them more and more items to compensate</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But from the flavour point of view I am more and more frustrated to see less and less difference between the skins of paladin, sk, guardian and berserk...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Judist]

<P>Sigh... breaking stuff down <U>may</U> seem like I'm trying to belittle people but honestly I'm not. You did force me however to dumb it down.</P> <P>Warrior Classes (Guardian/Berzerker)<BR>You are a melee pro! You have no spells, only combat arts. You know nothing about magic. A symbol to <U>you</U> is just a blunt object used to beat things with. Your forte is taking damage like no other can and more importantly... insulting mobs. Your "momma" jokes are the best and ensure you have aggro.</P> <P>Crusader Classes (Paladin/Shadowknight)<BR>You are neither a melee or magic pro but know alot about both. Mixing the two you are a force to be reckoned with. You see the symbol for what it is, a magical item and are able to use it to its fullest extent. Mixed with magic you can solo like no other fighter can.</P> <P>Anyone who dosent understand or agree with the above statements needs to stop. You cant just dumb down the game so you can be a tad better. With that attitude the next thing you know rangers with be able to equip tower shields and mages will carry claymores around. Lets keep this game atleast moderatly based on lore.</P> <P>Dont feel bad because you cant use a symbol, feel good that no other class can deal with physical damage as well as you can.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Memmoch]

<hr size="2" width="100%"> BeatinGuts wrote: <p>Sigh... breaking stuff down <u>may</u> seem like I'm trying to belittle people but honestly I'm not. You did force me however to dumb it down.</p> <p>Warrior Classes (Guardian/Berzerker)You are a melee pro! You have no spells, only combat arts. You know nothing about magic. A symbol to <u>you</u> is just a blunt object used to beat things with. Your forte is taking damage like no other can and more importantly... insulting mobs. Your "momma" jokes are the best and ensure you have aggro.</p> <p>Crusader Classes (Paladin/Shadowknight)You are neither a melee or magic pro but know alot about both. Mixing the two you are a force to be reckoned with. You see the symbol for what it is, a magical item and are able to use it to its fullest extent. Mixed with magic you can solo like no other fighter can.</p> <p>Anyone who dosent understand or agree with the above statements needs to stop. You cant just dumb down the game so you can be a tad better. With that attitude the next thing you know rangers with be able to equip tower shields and mages will carry claymores around. Lets keep this game atleast moderatly based on lore.</p> <p>Dont feel bad because you cant use a symbol, feel good that no other class can deal with physical damage as well as you can. </p> <hr size="2" width="100%"> <p>Well [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] am I using that mirror for that teleports you to SC then?  I'm a brute, I shouldn't be allowed to use those city merchant symbols that give's me immunity  or totem's that give me invisibility!  I'm just a dumb brute that dosn't use "any" magic right? </p> <p> /cue the redneck music </p> <p> I'll be out back ya'll carving on some wood if ya need me!  /shout Hey Ma, where'd you do with my tobacee!? </p> <div></div>

[Iyemana]

so both crusaders and warriors get to use bows now....Guardians want to use symbols?  Do you not get to use thrown weapons?  Every symbol ive seen so far have INT on them how is int useful to a guardian?  Besides do you know how often i use a bow? almost never in a fight.<div></div>

[Judist]

<P><FONT color=#ff0000>Well [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] am I using that mirror for that teleports you to SC then?  I'm a brute, I shouldn't be allowed to use those city merchant symbols that give's me immunity  or totem's that give me invisibility!  I'm just a dumb brute that dosn't use "any" magic right?<BR></FONT></P> <P><BR><FONT color=#ff0000>/cue the redneck music<BR></FONT></P> <P><BR><FONT color=#ff0000>I'll be out back ya'll carving on some wood if ya need me!  /shout Hey Ma, where'd you do with my tobacee!?</FONT><BR></P> <P>Sigh, lets just DUMB it down further... <BR><U>Charms</U> and <U>totems</U> aside which ANY class can use AND are there for balance issues, warriors will never get to use symbols. There is no balance issue because you cannot use a symbol. If you think so, then balance my defiler by letting him use a tower shield...</P> <P>For everyone else,<BR>Guards wanna use symbols because the T5 cobalt census has mit on it... which is more desireable than a bow/throwing weapon. Add symbol adornments and it becomes quite nice.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[OrcSlayer96]

<DIV>Who knows what the future holds, but I believe that warriors will never have symbols.  When looking at the fighter subclasses, warriors have access to some weapons that crusaders dont and crusaders have access to symbols which warriors or brawlers dont.  Both warriors and brawlers have the option to dual wield if they want and warriors can increase their mit thru their KOS aa line if they wish.  There is a balance in place now that SOE will probably not change.  For all intents and purposes, giving crusaders the bow option has minimal effect tanking but is a nice feature when raiding/jousting or need to conserve power, which we had no option other meleeing before.  If you want to gain the benefit of using a symbol, roll a crusader,priest,mage, if you want the highest mitigation and survival skills stay as a warrior, it is that simple.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I as a fighter would be more worried about our taunts and the upcoming changes with the new agression skill that will "help" us keep mobs on us.  It use to be that the hardest to get agro mobs was the drakotas in labs and similar mobs, now we have insane resist rates on master 1/2 taunts while the dps is tossing out massive dps thru their diety lines and adornments.  Hopefully this agression system will work because tanks of all classes need some help now.</DIV>

[Ruwen71]

<P>I want to argue too but I forgot whose side I'm on... Umm, let's see.. </P> <P>Crusaders using bows.. why would I want to do that? I already have spells with the same or better range of a bow and I get better stats from a symbol. That's just weird.</P> <P>Warriors using symbols.. well there are a few that I would use situationally for the stats but then I'd lose my ranged attack... I could just swap them out though... hhmm, what's three more pieces of gear in my bags... I want some.</P> <P>Conclusion: My guard wants to use symbols but my crusader doesn't even know where to buy arrows. SoE did it backwards though, I think they're trying to make my Crusader feel better by making my guardian mad. BTW, my bruiser wants to wear plate. Where can I complain about that?</P>

[Skeptycal]

Who the hell wants to use a symbol as a guardian anyway .... <div></div>

[JNewby]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> JimmyMach wrote:<BR>So let me get this straight, you are all agreeing that bows have worse stats than symbols and yet some of you are throwing hissy fits that crusaders get to equip one now?<BR>What exactly would be the ranged attack a guardian would use with a symbol?<BR><BR>Get over it.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>we dont have any ranged attacks.. further mroe being we are a tank we dont really need one.. and yes the bow stats suck.. they are all gaered to rangers adn dps whcih is fine.. but still I want a tank item like crusaders get not a useless bow.. pulling with a bow is no longer useful and even when it was it was still not that big of a usefulness...</P> <P>and no I wont get over it.</P>

[JNewby]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> BeatinGuts wrote:<BR> <DIV>You'll never see a warrior class use symbols.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for bows, there are quite a few good ones out there. Dont forget you can use throwing weapons also. One of the best end level guardian picks is the Razorwing Bandolier<sp>.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>there is not 1 good bow out there.. theyu all have louzy stats especially when compared to symbols.. and yes I use the bandolier but even so itsd stats are nothing compareed to symbols.. and I dont use it to pull nore do I carry ammo for it...</P> <P> </P>

[JNewby]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> BeatinGuts wrote:<BR> <P>Sigh... breaking stuff down <U>may</U> seem like I'm trying to belittle people but honestly I'm not. You did force me however to dumb it down.</P> <P>Warrior Classes (Guardian/Berzerker)<BR>You are a melee pro! You have no spells, only combat arts. You know nothing about magic. A symbol to <U>you</U> is just a blunt object used to beat things with. Your forte is taking damage like no other can and more importantly... insulting mobs. Your "momma" jokes are the best and ensure you have aggro.</P> <P>Crusader Classes (Paladin/Shadowknight)<BR>You are neither a melee or magic pro but know alot about both. Mixing the two you are a force to be reckoned with. You see the symbol for what it is, a magical item and are able to use it to its fullest extent. Mixed with magic you can solo like no other fighter can.</P> <P>Anyone who dosent understand or agree with the above statements needs to stop. You cant just dumb down the game so you can be a tad better. With that attitude the next thing you know rangers with be able to equip tower shields and mages will carry claymores around. Lets keep this game atleast moderatly based on lore.</P> <P>Dont feel bad because you cant use a symbol, feel good that no other class can deal with physical damage as well as you can.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>even so bows are geared to dps  they allow us to use them but they dont make a single bow that a guardian woudl actaully want to use.. so either they should gear bows to guardians at least soem of them.. hell get rid of all the 2 handers and make tank bows.. or give us soemthign useful to fill that spot.. like u did for crusders with their symbols!</P> <P><BR> </P>

[JNewby]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Iyemana wrote:<BR>so both crusaders and warriors get to use bows now....Guardians want to use symbols?  Do you not get to use thrown weapons?  Every symbol ive seen so far have INT on them how is int useful to a guardian?  Besides do you know how often i use a bow? almost never in a fight.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>WOW exactly</P> <P>quote "Besides do you know how often i use a bow? almost never in a fight."</P> <P> </P> <P>exactly how I feel so give us soemthing to repplace those lame [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] bows.</P>

[JNewby]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ruwen71 wrote:<BR> <P>I want to argue too but I forgot whose side I'm on... Umm, let's see.. </P> <P>Crusaders using bows.. why would I want to do that? I already have spells with the same or better range of a bow and I get better stats from a symbol. That's just weird.</P> <P>Warriors using symbols.. well there are a few that I would use situationally for the stats but then I'd lose my ranged attack... I could just swap them out though... hhmm, what's three more pieces of gear in my bags... I want some.</P> <P>Conclusion: My guard wants to use symbols but my crusader doesn't even know where to buy arrows. SoE did it backwards though, I think they're trying to make my Crusader feel better by making my guardian mad. BTW, my bruiser wants to wear plate. Where can I complain about that?</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>you know what the worst part is not only did they now allow crusaders to use bows BUT THEY MADE A BOW JSUT FOR THEM.. yeah the one taht adds a chance to have a hael crit..c ause as far as I know they are the only class that heal that can use them.. so not only do they get symbols made jsut for them but now they get a bow as well.. and I have as  a guardian asking for just 1 bwo that woudl be useful for my gaurd beign that we can use them.. and we dont even get that.. it jsut sucks</P> <P> </P>

[Jackula]

You make it sounds like pallies getting bows and a poor bow selection is holding you back.  /shrug  Who cares?  When is the last time you actually used a bow anyway since the social agro changes?  The bandolier is fine, and you rarely use it.It's just one slot.  They didn't take anything away from us.  Get over it.<div></div>

[Rah]

<P>------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</P> <P>Emblem of Fluidity</P> <P>Ranged</P> <P>SK,Pally (and just about all other classes that are not warrior)</P> <P>+55Mana +55 Health</P> <P>+794 Disease, Cold, Heat, Posion</P> <P>+2 Defense</P> <P>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------</P> <P>+794 to 4 resist stats and uping def by an additional 2 goes along way for me. Especially since I am body pulling 90% of the game content as it is.</P> <P>Rahge</P>

[BetaMaster]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Rahge wrote:<BR> <P>------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</P> <P>Emblem of Fluidity</P> <P>Ranged</P> <P>SK,Pally (and just about all other classes that are not warrior)</P> <P>+55Mana +55 Health</P> <P>+794 Disease, Cold, Heat, Posion</P> <P>+2 Defense</P> <P>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------</P> <P>+794 to 4 resist stats and uping def by an additional 2 goes along way for me. Especially since I am body pulling 90% of the game content as it is.</P> <P>Rahge</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Not to mention some symbols have mit

[JNewby]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> countjackula wrote:<BR>You make it sounds like pallies getting bows and a poor bow selection is holding you back.  /shrug  Who cares?  When is the last time you actually used a bow anyway since the social agro changes?  The bandolier is fine, and you rarely use it.<BR><BR>It's just one slot.  They didn't take anything away from us.  Get over it.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>yeah but they made a bow that woudl only be useful for a crusader and yet we dont get one single bow that is useful for us and that is suppost to be our thing not theirs... in addition bows are for dps bandoliers suck as well it owudl be nice to have a warrio only type item.. as they get.

[EvilSqueak]

<P>Well, although i'm not to concerned about not being able to use a symbol, what concerns me is that the Crusaders are now able to use, Full Vanguard armour (originally a warrior only thing) they can now use Tower shields, (again warrior only) and now they get Bows as well, Just exactly How the Hell can they Cast there spells when in Full Vanguard Hauling around a big [Removed for Content] tower shield???</P> <P> </P> <P>Oh and also give this an idea,  If you have the following MT set up, Guard, Pally, Defiler, Templer, Warden, Dirge. Then due to the pally's Personal health buff, and the fact they get all the guardians group buffs, they can buff there health much much higher, The dirge and guard group buffs also nearly max the defense of the pally, and as for agro, well he can amends the guard and the dirge agro gain means that its no prob for him to keep agro 100% of the time. Add this to the fact that mitigation is worth less now, so with the wardens perma 1k buff, and the guard 30sec group one, the pally actuall makes a kick [Removed for Content] raid tank now.</P><p>Message Edited by EvilSqueak on <span class=date_text>12-11-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:30 AM</span>

[lostsandman]

<DIV>If SoE made bow that is only useable by Warriors then we will have scouts up in arms but they have just made bow that is not usable by us but can be used by crusader who were only allowed to use bow only few days ago!!!!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>i think it very silly....</DIV>

[EpokSilvermo]

They should make a special tower shield only usable by crusaders and a special kite shield only usable by warriors LOLSorry I found that funny...<div></div>

[lostsandman]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> butchrulez wrote:<BR>They should make a special tower shield only usable by crusaders and a special kite shield only usable by warriors LOL<BR><BR>Sorry I found that funny...<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P> </P> <P>Don't  give them ideas pls <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>