NDA lifted info on new Guardian AAs

[Izzypop]

Someone post them chop chop <span>:smileytongue:</span><div></div>

[Mjollnyr]

NDA's been lifted for a little while now.  Still no guardian AA post. Clearly all the guardians in beta have quit the game.  Thats good enough AA post for me! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[Crispy]

<div></div>Heres some info i ganked from guild forum. Not a complete listing but some info at least.<span><span><div><div><p><font color="#ff9900" size="2"><strong>Shielding Cover</strong></font></p><p><font size="2">In theory, the ability isn't bad.  However, the current implementation renders it effectively useless in virtually any setting.</font></p><p><font size="2"> o It only works for 2 seconds.  </font></p><p><font size="2">Since you have to actually use the CA before the AE in question goes off, you have to predict when it will hit with less than a 2 second margin of error, which is exceedingly hard, even using a parser, due to the slight variations in AE reuse timers.  If this AA should see any use whatsoever, the duration would have to be increased to 10 - 15 seconds.  In order for it to not prevent multiple AE's, simply add that it drops after preventing one single AE with regards to everyone within range.</font></p><p><font size="2"> o It only affects fighters.  </font></p><p><font size="2">What is up with that?  It doesn't work on yourself, so this isn't a solo CA.  In a group setting, you usually only have one fighter in the group, you can't predict AE's, and the incoming damage is usually pretty moderate, so it obviously has no use there either.  On raids, how many fighters do you normally have?  More than two is usually a waste of raid slots, so you would in reality be able to prevent an AE on a single fighter who wouldn't be tanking at the time (since it doesn't work on direct AE's.)  Pretty damned pointless, if you ask me.  If there has to be a class restriction imposed on this AE, at least make it something useful, meaning priest as well as possibly mage and/or scout.</font></p><p><font color="#ff9900" size="2"><strong>Block</strong></font></p><p><font size="2"> o The direct AE restriction needs to go.  </font></p><p><font size="2">Guardians aren't brought to raids for any other purpose than tanking, so Block would never stop AE's from hitting us.  If you fix the restriction, Block would make for a decent AA ability.  If you leave it as it is, conversely, Block is nothing but a very sub-par Tower of Stone.</font></p><p><strong><font color="#ff9900" size="2">Double Attack</font></strong></p><p><font size="2">1% per rank isn't enough.  It is so far from being enough, it isn't even funny, especially considering MT'ing guardians are being virtually forced into giving up the stamina AA line in favor of a tower/kite shield in order to maximize our survivability edge vs brawlers.  </font></p><p><font size="2">As things stand, this AA ability will have to compensate for the loss of 76% double-attack (and the attendant hate) from the stamina line and the increase in DPS most other classes are going to experience.</font></p><p><font size="2"> o Increase the  bonus to 10% per rank, maxing out at 50%.</font></p><p><font size="2"><strong><font color="#ff9900">Riposte</font></strong> (can't remember the actual name)</font></p><p><font size="2"> o Make it permanent and not contingent on having recently debuffed the mob.</font></p><p><font size="2">Vs mobs like Vilucidae, where such an AA ability would actually be useful, the debuff requirement prevents the ability from being worth 5 points, let alone the total point cost (keep in mind that we have to buy 15 points worth of largely useless enhancement AA's to even get there.)</font></p><p><font size="2">In General</font></p><p><font size="2"> o The tree is still flawed, especially with regards to Unyielding Will.  The ability is a slap in the face of all guardians out there, an utterly pointless waste of a hot bar slot which we now have to spend 3 AA's "enhancing" simply in order to get to the sole truly worthwhile AA in the tree (Enhance: ToS.)</font></p><p><font size="2"> o The guardian tree is in dire need of significant hate gain increasing abilities.  No, Reinforcement doesn't count.  We aren't talking aggro recovery here but aggro maintenance.  I would suggest two to four AA's which enhance Inflaming Defense: one making it harder to resist, one making it proc more frequently, one making it generate more hate per proc, and most importantly, an end-of-line ability which allows Inflaming Defense to proc on unsuccessful attacks, including misses, warded attacks, stoneskin-absorbed attacks, parries, and blocks.</font></p><p><font size="2"> o In general, the DPS bonuses in the tree need to be increased by a factor 7 at least.  2% per rank would be okay if it boosted the damage of <em>all</em> CA's with one single AA ability, but as long as one ability enhances only one single CA, the effect needs to be <em>massively</em> improved.  70% extra damage with one CA for 5 points doesn't sound unbalanced to me; consider that 5 points in one of the wisdom warrior AA line abilities affords around 11% auto-attack damage increase, which amounts to a greater total DPS increase than what a 70% damage boost to Flay, Perfect Strike, or the like would accomplish.</font></p></div></div></span></span><div></div>

[Ceve]

<span><span><font color="#ff9900" size="2"><strong>just a note, about to post pics of all the new AA's, but...</strong></font></span></span><span><span><font color="#ff9900" size="2"><strong>Shielding Cover - when max'ed, is 10 seconds, still not that useful, but there it is <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></strong></font></span></span><div></div>

[Ceve]

<img src="http://www.fromthedeep.net/images/Cevenx/guard_open.GIF">New things are at the bottom, so here we go.<img src="http://www.fromthedeep.net/images/Cevenx/guard_command.GIF"><img src="http://www.fromthedeep.net/images/Cevenx/guard_wall.GIF"><img src="http://www.fromthedeep.net/images/Cevenx/guard_plant.GIF"><img src="http://www.fromthedeep.net/images/Cevenx/guard_stone.GIF"><img src="http://www.fromthedeep.net/images/Cevenx/guard_tos.GIF"><img src="http://www.fromthedeep.net/images/Cevenx/guard_merc_charge.GIF"><img src="http://www.fromthedeep.net/images/Cevenx/guard_buffet.GIF"><img src="http://www.fromthedeep.net/images/Cevenx/guard_unyielding.GIF"><img src="http://www.fromthedeep.net/images/Cevenx/guard_overpower.GIF"><img src="http://www.fromthedeep.net/images/Cevenx/guard_sever.GIF"><img src="http://www.fromthedeep.net/images/Cevenx/guard_compress.GIF"><img src="http://www.fromthedeep.net/images/Cevenx/guard_retal.GIF"><img src="http://www.fromthedeep.net/images/Cevenx/guard_precise.GIF"><img src="http://www.fromthedeep.net/images/Cevenx/guard_oblit.GIF"><img src="http://www.fromthedeep.net/images/Cevenx/guard_vindictive.GIF"><img src="http://www.fromthedeep.net/images/Cevenx/guard_flay.GIF">The name on this one is mislabled, but it's intercede<img src="http://www.fromthedeep.net/images/Cevenx/guard_inter.GIF">here is the real sustain.<img src="http://www.fromthedeep.net/images/Cevenx/guard_sustain.GIF"><img src="http://www.fromthedeep.net/images/Cevenx/guard_moderate.GIF"><img src="http://www.fromthedeep.net/images/Cevenx/guard_rescue.GIF"><img src="http://www.fromthedeep.net/images/Cevenx/guard_sentry.GIF"><img src="http://www.fromthedeep.net/images/Cevenx/guard_reinforcement.GIF"><font size="5"><b>Here are the new things we get <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></b></font><img src="http://www.fromthedeep.net/images/Cevenx/guard_lay.GIF"><img src="http://www.fromthedeep.net/images/Cevenx/guard_gotback.GIF"><img src="http://www.fromthedeep.net/images/Cevenx/guard_cripple.GIF"><img src="http://www.fromthedeep.net/images/Cevenx/guard_double.GIF"><img src="http://www.fromthedeep.net/images/Cevenx/guard_block.GIF"><font size="3">i'll try and look up other guard changes from the patch notes, cant remember everything, one of the last changes was:Plant:last 7.5 seconds nowcant be resistedcant be broken on damage.</font><div></div>

[Docimodo]

<DIV>Enhance: Vindictive strike now increases both hate and damage by 10%.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Lay Waste gives you a very nice single target attack that shares its reuse timer with besiege.</DIV>

[Axhine]

Dunno maybe its me but not real excited about the new AA lines look kind of crappy to me.  And the new AA window looks like a 3 year old playing connect the dots...<div></div>

[Anfauglith]

Does anyone know the recast on block? it looks like the end agi line but at least the rest of the line for it is good <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> so if the recast is fast enough it can be pretty powerfull<div></div>

[EpokSilvermo]

OMG I love what I read here about the new AAs. Can I develop all of the improved defensive abilities?<div></div>

[Memmoch]

Those of us that have played with the new AA's in beta started out the beta flipping a coin nightly on weither to delete our guardian or log him in hehe.  Luckily there are some here that are ok finally...just don't go to any of the other fighter boards and take a peak at their new AA's or you might find yourself cussing out a computer screen <span>:smileyvery-happy:</span> <div></div>

[Docimodo]

Block will only block the next attack that occurs within 5 seconds (not block all attacks for 5 seconds) and it is not like the overpowered block from WoW, you will be able to cast this maybe 2 times in a regular fight or a bit more for the super long fights. I think of it as a mini ToS.<p>Message Edited by Docimodo on <span class=date_text>11-06-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:40 PM</span>

[Catu]

<DIV>I havnt gottena  chance to raid in beta, any guards who have that can tell us about the old AAs? Currently I'm specced sta and wis and wanted to know if the buckler line is still good while tanking raids,  Only been through the single group content in beta and for the most part with the buckler spec it's all trivial, dont really notice a difference when using tower v. buckler...but raids may be a different story.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As far as the new subclass AAs go, so far the block one seems cool, with a 1min recycle you can get hit 1 time less often =p</DIV> <DIV>Leaning towards the aoe immunity on the other side of the tree as well in order to get reinforcement timer maxed out and the upgrade to vindictive strike, but without raid testing I can't really say how well it all works.  Appreciate any input on this</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>~Catulu - Everfrost</DIV>

[Master Lee]

<P>Personally I find the new AA line disappointing so far. I feel Guardian is the best class for MT in a group or raid but holding aggro is sometimes impossible depending on the classes in the group/raid. I am in a Raid guild and find many fighter classes in guild are left out of raid if they are not assigned as MT. This is especially true with guardians. Most often only 2 fighter classes are in the raid to MT or MA, sometimes a 3rd as Back up at most because of low Dps. </P> <P>Guardians, therefore really need 1 of 3 things. An AA line that significantly increases hate to make them more effective in tanking raids, significant increase in Dps, or a significat increase in Defense. I have a lvl 70 guardian in a T7 raid guild. Because a another guardian in guild has aquired better gear, since he has been in guild longer then me, he is almost always MT in raids. Ma is usually best with onther fighter class such as a Zerker, Monk, Bruiser that offers higher dps. Guild is obviously going to pick classes that will most contribute to the success of the raid, therefore I am often left out of raids.  <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </P> <P>Classes other then fighters dont seem to have this issue, and I am frustrated that after spending a year and a half developing this character that now this issue has come to light.  One only needs to look at Stationexchange and compare the $$ lvl 70 Guardians or being sold at compared to other classes to realize that the value of this class is much less then other classes. I was hoping the upcoming expansion would rectify this, but from what I have so far, that will not be the case. </P> <P>Zerker seems to be the flavor of the month in the fighter class due to it's ability to hold aggro and the higher dps. I dont want to see other classes nerf'ed, just guardian class improved!   </P>

[Docimodo]

<DIV>A non MT guardian can protect an entire group from death with one character basically immune to death before the guardian, with intercept skills, avoidance buffs as well as provide them 700 more hp lots of defense and offense skills more mitigation for physical aes, do decent dps, and rescue raids at iffy moments. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>All this while doing respectable dps. If you spec down the cripple line you will reduce overall dmg and massively reduce reposte damage on whoever is tanking. if you spec down the dps line you will uh do more dmg <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  if you spec down the stability line your group/raid saving skills get a massive boost you can protect other non MT fighters from aes (amazing skill imo) if you go down the Tanking line (forgot name) you will have a half and half boost to group and personal survivability skills!  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think non MT guardians are very powerful already and thats without the massive upgrades recieved from the new AA...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <P><SPAN class=time_text>when i say lines i mean that portion of the tree which results in unlocking a unique powerful skill (one of the 4 at the bottom of the picture)</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Docimodo on <span class=date_text>11-07-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:34 AM</span>

[BULLPUPP]

<DIV>I am not thrilled with the new AA line, especially compared to the original 50 AA's. The original AA line made me what I an today....a rare offensive Guardian. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sure it cost me lots of time and plats but now I am a freak. I have my offensive stance and all offensive skills mastered. Good gear and a good one hander/buckler.I spent 50p respecing AA's to get the best DPS for ME and MY gear. I usually parse 800-1500 in raid situations. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am also usful for buffs, intercepts, etc.. I love the roll of my Guard, although sometimes it's tough convincing groups that I am DPS and not a tank. Guildies call me "a platescout" LOL. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Billybaroo </DIV> <DIV>the "DPS Guardian"</DIV> <DIV>Oasis server  </DIV>

[Niende]

<DIV>Billybaroo, care to share your AA setup? I've been considering doing the same thing with a guardian alt and curious what you chose.</DIV>

[Terron]

<div></div>Guards who are supposed to be the specialists in protecting others get an ability that protects nearby fighters from AEs for 2s/rank, but swashies get <font color="#66ffff">2f: Advance Warning - Your reflexes are heightened to near clairvoyance. When used in time, this ability protects your group from area effects, as long as they aren't the direct target of the effect by 3 seconds /rank (up to 15 seconds). Recast of 5 minutes. </font> <div align="right"> <div align="left">That does not seem right. </div> <div align="left"> <div align="left"> </div> </div> <font color="#66ffff"> </font></div> <div></div><p>Message Edited by pjackson on <span class=date_text>11-08-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:26 AM</span>

[VIet4ever]

Like most i'm not too impressed with the new AA's but some are decent (raid tank point of view). The best skill imo is the Block AA. 10 sec of invulnerability to melee and AoE. Great for pulls and timed AoEs not sure if the AoE has to be melee also. Recast on it is 1 min so very viable to use. The skill debuffs are nice and reduction in ToS timer is nice. All the other AA are bleh for raid tanking imo

[Catu]

The block ability is nice but it seems like people think its like tsunami or something.  It blocks the next attack and then drops, while you have it on you are stunned stifled.  So there is 10sec window to negate the next hit taken...thats what block does~kinda like a mini ToS that you can use with any shield type and not have to worry about dmging the shield.  The refresh is 1min, still the best ability on the guard AA tree.<div></div>

[Wilin]

<DIV>I'm not seeing much in the AAs that is worthwhile and oddly enough I'm not seeing much chatter on this board from guardians. Have most of the board guardians given up due to being beaten into submission by more lackluster additions to the class? I count on other people to complain on the boards to keep things in check. So, people...get to complaining. This half-baked effort where you all roll over and die by switching to a zerker or alt is not helping me. Other classes that have complained are getting their AAs re-evaluated and improved in some cases. Do the right thing!</DIV>

[Wabit]

<DIV>i've betabuffed several toons, none of them really have that great of AAs...  the ones guards get are pretty ehh, but block and the guard thingy have potential...  the best one imo is the more hate/damage froup taunting blow...  reinforcement timer and ToS timer reducers are useful...  and for the dps minded guard an exrta 10% double attack...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>some are completly useless, like the bloodlines spell upgrades...  haven't played a whole lot with them, jsut general observations so far...  only done a little tanking, but so far its not bad...</DIV>

[BULLPUPP]

<DIV>Niende,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>STR 4-4-8</DIV> <DIV>STA 4-5-8</DIV> <DIV>WIS 4-4-8</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>....Bill</DIV>

[Wabit]

<DIV>have you tried agi 4/4/8 instead of the wis???  i liked that alot with a dps build...</DIV>

[SwordsApprentice]

<DIV> <DIV>Well i tried.. in beta forum.. i guess dissapointment all over ...I cant Beliave that they made Defence stance to have the same Mitigation across all spell tiers.. AA are useless.. and we are so less fight capable.. i tried my normal solo in Forsaken city that was a playground for me.. half fabled all mastered Guardian and even with secont ear and 50 more AA i die to everything even trash mobs and i could in live take 2 encounters at the same time not dropping from yellow.</DIV> <DIV>And the sad thing is in beta i saw many other classes i dont want to name the classes and spoke to them and they said they can still do the nameds there..</DIV> <DIV>I finally canceled my preorder and my account..</DIV></DIV>

[JNewby]

<P>well I do have to say spells liek I got yer back or whatever its called are jsut more lame dmg soak spells.. ok ntoe to sony WE ARENT GROUP BUFFERS... ok anyhow the sheild or dmg soak is nice.. and umm maybe that one that prevents riposite dmg depending on how it works.. but honestly beisdest athI coudl care less about the rest of them.. they all look kinda pointless.</P> <P> </P>

[JNewby]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> pjackson wrote:<BR> Guards who are supposed to be the specialists in protecting others get an ability that protects nearby fighters from AEs for 2s/rank, but swashies get<BR><BR><FONT color=#66ffff>2f: Advance Warning - Your reflexes are heightened to near clairvoyance. When used in time, this ability protects your group from area effects, as long as they aren't the direct target of the effect by 3 seconds /rank (up to 15 seconds). Recast of 5 minutes.<BR></FONT> <DIV align=right><BR> <DIV align=left>That does not seem right.<BR></DIV> <DIV align=left> <DIV align=left><BR><BR></DIV><BR></DIV><FONT color=#66ffff><BR></FONT></DIV> <P>Message Edited by pjackson on <SPAN class=date_text>11-08-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>08:26 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>forget protecting others that is the3 lamest idea since the pet rock... it isnt practical and soaking dmg for others does ntohing but killed us kiled.. it was a dumb idea on release that sony still has nto corrected.. and for that manner swashys can have that useless spell have fun with it... </P> <P><BR> </P>

[Terron]

At least those skills don't seem to involve our taking the damage, <div></div>

[Rah]

<P>IMHO this is the single sentence in the entire thread that should be pushed to the Devs attention</P> <P>"The guardian tree is in <FONT color=#ff0000>dire need</FONT> of significant hate gain increasing abilities.  No, Reinforcement doesn't count.  We aren't talking aggro recovery here but aggro maintenance. "</P> <P>Rahge</P>

[Da_Nah]

I'm with everyone else, guardian's are completely being left behind.  Hell I'll take the special zerkers get that nukes their armor for damage, or well anything, thow me a bone.   If I'm not MT, I can't raid.  Period.  No self respecting group will bring more than two guardians on a raid, we get sentry watch, and intercept , whoop-de-doo... Yea you might want a guardian in your MT group but with our buffs we pretty much make every other fighter class better than us.  So at least give us a way to be MA or something.  My armor sucks, since I'm not a MT in a big guild and (our guild already has a MT that's a leader) so I never get invited to raids.Ah well, I'm not trying to complain, I like my class.  Just wish Guardian was well more of a tank than it's become.ThxDa Nah<div></div>