Agro Controll

[Zimi]

<DIV>Do you guys feel your taunts are working where you would like them to?</DIV>

[NoNameChosen]

<DIV>Yes</DIV>

[Original Cinadien]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zimi wrote:<BR> <DIV>Do you guys feel your taunts are working where you would like them to?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Sometimes yes, sometimes no.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Cheldrak and Vyemm Seem to be the most resistant, there are tricks with group setup to get around that though.</DIV>

[Terron]

Yes<div></div>

[Sir_Halbarad]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zimi wrote:<BR> <DIV>Do you guys feel your taunts are working where you would like them to?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Yes

[Raahl]

<DIV>I cannot speak on raids, but in non-raid groups....  Yes.</DIV>

[Ja]

The change in LU13 that made taunts resistable kinda sucked.  But that forced workarounds with group setups, and made hate transfers and agro reduction more useful.

[Lamprey_02]

<DIV>Yes, unless I'm grouped with a higher lvl monk. These people just don't understand how not to get agro...</DIV>

[Sir_Halbarad]

<div><blockquote><hr>Lamprey_02 wrote:<div>Yes, unless I'm grouped with a higher lvl monk. These people just don't understand how not to get agro...</div><hr></blockquote>If a dps class is higher level than you, they always get aggro from you... (counting brawlers as dps for now assuming they arent tanking and in off. stance).Brawlers, opposite to scouts, do not have a deaggro button though.And Monks with 100% haste will do a truckload of damage even if they don't use CA's. Train your monk to FD when he steals aggro and you should be good.</div>

[RipFlex]

<P>My 59th level Ratonga Guardian tanked a SoS group where 1 healer 1 monk 1 wizard 2 Nercomancers with assassin pets and they were 1 - 4 levels higher than me.  Most of the time it was fine but had some hairy situations where the pets ran off attacking whatever and repops.  Was surprisenly good though... but I'll try to avoid that combo again. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P> </P>

[Raahl]

<DIV>I have grouped with a Monk recently that just had to taunt.  I asked him not to, but I guess he didn't understand.  When he would get aggro, I'd not use rescue or reinforcement (Those are for squishies.    I think he might have gotten into the orange once or twice.   :smileyvery-happy:</DIV>

[Docimodo]

<P>yeah it amuses me to just say '[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] it, you can tank.' and whip out a two hander to emphasize the point. </P> <P>All it usually takes is to not touch the mob before it is actually at me, but noooo they just cant resist firing off several ranged arts without any consideration to the fact we have only 2 ranged (if you could even call 10m ranged) arts.</P>

[premiere]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Raahl wrote:<BR> <DIV>I have grouped with a Monk recently that just had to taunt.  I asked him not to, but I guess he didn't understand.  When he would get aggro, I'd not use rescue or reinforcement (Those are for squishies.    I think he might have gotten into the orange once or twice.   :smileyvery-happy:</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>When I group with people like this I just trigger sentry watch let them die get aggro and be kept alive barely and they usually get the point then.  </DIV>

[Bladewind]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sir_Halbarad wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lamprey_02 wrote:<BR> <DIV>Yes, unless I'm grouped with a higher lvl monk. These people just don't understand how not to get agro...</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>If a dps class is higher level than you, they always get aggro from you... (counting brawlers as dps for now assuming they arent tanking and in off. stance).<BR><BR>Brawlers, opposite to scouts, do not have a deaggro button though.<BR><BR>And Monks with 100% haste will do a truckload of damage even if they don't use CA's. Train your monk to FD when he steals aggro and you should be good.<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Precisely <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  The good ones do not get aggro the majority of the time, but, if you are in an unfamiliar group, it takes a bit of time to find your dps limits.  If a monk in your group gets aggro, they should just FD right away stay down for 3-5 seconds while you re-establish aggro.  FD beats any de-aggro tool that a scout has.</P> <P>edit:  Monks have a buff that procs hate whenever they hit something for use while tanking.  If you have monks grouped with you filling a dps role who keep taking aggro, you might want to make sure that they have turned this buff off.</P><p>Message Edited by Bladewind on <span class=date_text>11-01-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:50 AM</span>

[Raahl]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> premiere wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Raahl wrote:<BR> <DIV>I have grouped with a Monk recently that just had to taunt.  I asked him not to, but I guess he didn't understand.  When he would get aggro, I'd not use rescue or reinforcement (Those are for squishies.    I think he might have gotten into the orange once or twice.   :smileyvery-happy:</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>When I group with people like this I just trigger sentry watch let them die get aggro and be kept alive barely and they usually get the point then.  </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>LOL.  I couldn't do that to a fellow guildmate, a pickup group yea.  Luckily the situation wasn't that dire, plus he got a taste of what tanking is like in a group, something he may not see too much of in the future.  <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Kreagan De'Unerro]

<P>Some people you just have to let DIE.</P> <P>Like Brigands, for example, my Rl friend is one, and we leveled to 70 together. he would always take agro, but around our 30s I started to just let him die, and worry about picking the agro up so rest of group wouldnt wipe.</P> <P>Well we are at 70, raid often together, he in seperate group, me with Dirge and coercer buff still lose agro to him occasionally. I let him die alot, but always threw up reinforcement just as he would hit orange then pull off him. He has learned how to THROTTLE his agro. This is really important.</P> <P>DPS players must learn how to THROTTLE their agro, when to lay into a mob and when to lay back. that is what makes good raid/group members.</P> <P>You still get the occasional wizard who will hit Fusion for 20k+ or Warlock who Rifts the hell out of mobs, but cant do much but grab the agro back.</P>

[Mini]

<P>This is absolutely, positevely a load of crap.  If you are a guardian, you should know how to hold agro, against anyone.</P> <P>With monks and bruisers, I find it best to just out-DPS them *AND* spam taunts.  In fact, the only person I have trouble holding agro against is a warlock, and that's only if he decides to drop rift and apocalypse at the same time right when I call assist.</P> <P> </P> <P>In groups, I don't lose agro.</P> <P> </P> <P>Work your AA lines so you get some more DPS, I'm in the 975-1100 range now in typical raids, 600-800 in typical groups.  You can only spam taunts so many times, so the only other way to increase you hate, is to increase your DPS.  Beat them at their own game.</P>

[silasmaxim]

<P>Ok so we know are taunts work well enough.. But I'm curious about somthing that is a little of the main topic but not worth starting another thread.. I also have a 70 assassin and have trio'ed most of all the instances in this game other than them [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] seal bearers with this combo.. Monk/assassin/inq.. This monk is a great tank and holds up very very well.. I wouldnt say he is going to be a mt in a raid anyday but anything not epic is cake with these peeps.. I hear bad things about monks all the time about tanking and was curious if any of you have experianced the opposite? As mentioned I know very well that they dont mit dmg as well as us but I feel the ones who really know how to play there class do just fine if not [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] good.. So I guess I've had very poss view of them paper monks is all.. Ok.. That being said as I'm creeping near 70 with my guardian he is going to be out of a tanking job and going to fill the dps roll of my assassin.. : P Max.. </P>

[EpokSilvermo]

Sorry just need to correct as I'm reading it here a couple of times: Rift does generate zero aggro cause the mobs technically take falling damage <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Docimodo]

<P>The only irritant I have is that ae taunts have an individual resist check per mob. I think that multi mob encounters should get one combined resist check for ae effects. </P> <P>This you would think makes life easier and maybe make things trivial but it does not if the ae resist check is changed depending on the spread of creature difficulties in the encounter ie if the encounter has one powerful creature and several weaker ones as the ae resist rate would be higher than it is currently on the weaker mobs but slightly reduced on the tougher one. The numbers can be played with. This would stop one having to find the one bugger that resisted two taunts to slap some taunts on it, this is doable but can be difficult with multiple same name creatures as the log wont tell you which one of them resisted etc.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>Also to the person who claims that in groups they don't lose aggro you are making a very general statement there and i can gaurantee you will not hold aggro from many combinations of classes. That is unless you wait for rescue and reinforcement before pulling only single mob encounters and having smart players behind the other chars too.... </P> <P> </P> <P>Infact in my regualr and favourite group i lose aggro all the time but we clear ten or so heroic multiob encounters at a time hehe. massive ae dmg, intercept skills and quality healers ftw!</P><p>Message Edited by Docimodo on <span class=date_text>11-04-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:04 AM</span>

[Domiuk]

<DIV>I have to agree with that last point , if you never lose agro your playing with some poor players <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The guard that can hold agro off a warlock going all out doesnt exist <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The thing is as long as the warlocks not actually geting himself or others killed , is he doing anything wrong ?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just an example of this pick any named heroic encounter in the game thats is a named plus multiple adds, a single warlock will drop every single add in about 4 spells if they are any good (say 12 seconds) to hold agro against that is almost impossible, but you dont need to, as long as you keep the named on you forget the others.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Im buckler specced pretty much fully mastered , fully fabled do very good DPS and i group and raid with lots of players who can pull agro off me any time they choose.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The skill lies in that if they dont want too , they dont and to get that skill in the first place you need to constantly test tanks and find the point you do take agro off them.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Your players constantly testing your ability to hold agro of course has the effect of making sure you keep on your toes and makes everybody a better player <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Mini]

<P>Poor word choice on my part.</P> <P>I don't do pickup groups, and the players I play with know their limits, as well as mine.  1 in 15 mobs ganking agro for 2-5 seconds is not what I consider "pulling agro."  Yes, it technically is, however I call it "pushing the limits, but staying in-bounds."  I track a DPS parse of just abuot every fight, so the group knows when they did well, and knows when they slacked off - it's plain as day.</P> <P>On raids, I'd say 1 in 5 pulls I'll lose agro to somone briefly.  I push my raid though, at least I try.  I brag about my DPS, I riddicule if I'm in the top 75%, things of that nature.  Before I started egging them on boasting that I could hold agro from anyone we were sitting at 7-8k dps for a raid, incredibly low.  Now over time, gear upgrades, spell upgrades, and sheer chatacter knowledge, we're doing 12-18k depending on the pull.  Quite the difference, and I'm sure a lot of it can be attributed to me braggign and being an arrogant person as I have been.</P>

[Belce]

There is nothing wrong with loosing agro for a couple of seconds in any encounter.  If this isn't happening then you are not all pushing as hard as you can.  I think it helps if the DPS classes have the target directly targetted.  That way they can see what and when agro is lost and can assist the return of agro to the MT. 

[bks6721]

<blockquote><hr>Lamprey_02 wrote:<div>Yes, unless I'm grouped with a higher lvl monk. These people just don't understand how not to get agro...</div><hr></blockquote> having both a monk and a guardian I can tell you that its tough playing the monk in dps mode with a less than stellar guard as MT. My monk at lvl 67 in defensive stance and haste lowered can pull agro from my friends 70 guard using autoattack ONLY.  I have to turn autoattack on and off several times to avoid pulling mob off him.  I can't even think of using my ca's.  Now on the other hand I have grouped with some 70 guards in fabled and been able to go balls out in offensive stance with no problem.. there is no fine line, it totally depends on the makeup of the guard.   I prefer to use my monk as a dps toon instead of tank becuase I simply don't compare IMHO to a good equiped guardian.  People that I've tanked for would also agree!  lol <div></div>

[Docimodo]

<DIV>This is another winner for me:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you have a dirge and a 1.0 delay weapon like the High priestess spear get them to cast cacaphhony around 10 seconds into a fight (ie once you have burned all of your skills) whip on that weapon, fire off reinforcement and just autoattack for its duration. You will get such a rediculous amount of hate (especially with a coercer's hate and dps buff  ontop) its not even funny. This is how i hold aggro as str/wis guard versus nearly 30k dps.</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Docimodo on <SPAN class=date_text>11-09-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>10:27 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Docimodo on <span class=date_text>11-09-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:28 AM</span>