Mitigation cap in expansion

[Magicmind]

<DIV>UMM I have picked up on a nasty rumor.  They are looking at capping mitigation at around the 4000 mark with the new expansion?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>PLease tell me I'm wrong....I sooo want to be wrong.  please say this is something spread by nasty WOW players.</DIV>

[Kienn]

<blockquote dir="ltr"> <p><span>Damage Mitigation and Resistance</span></p> <ul><li><span>Maximum mitigation/resistance numbers for current level has been increased from [ Level * 80 ] to [ Level * 150 ]</span></li><li><span>Damage mitigated now has diminishing returns, with the break-even point set at 4000 for level 70 players    </span></li></ul><p><span><strong>Example:<span>  </span>Mitigation and Longevity</strong></span></p> <p><span>To illustrate how diminishing returns help solve the problem of linear progression for mitigations, take a look at the benefits of two level 70 characters that increase their mitigation by the same amount in the old system:</span></p> <p><span>Player A increases their mitigation from 2000 to 2600. A change of +600, or +8.5% mitigation</span></p> <p><span></span><span>Player B increases their mitigation from 5000 to 5600. A change of +600, or +8.5% mitigation</span></p> <p><span>Even though it looks like Player A and B received the same amount of benefit, Player B gained more than 3 times as much effective benefit with that same amount. How is that possible?</span></p> <p><span>The change of mitigation Player A experienced granted them 13.6% more length of time to live, which we will refer to as Longevity. The change of mitigation Player B experienced granted them 42.9% additional longevity than they previously had. This is because Longevity is determined by the equation: [ 1 / ( 100 - Mitigation% ) ]</span></p> <p><span>What results is that players that are very well equipped grow exponentially stronger than those that are not as well equipped. This causes these very well-equipped players to solo heroics with relative ease, and raid encounters must be designed to deal incredible amounts of damage that often one-shot kill other players in an area effect that do not have a minimum amount of mitigation for that encounter, especially mage classes.<span>  </span>Cloth-wearers obviously won’t be tanking, but we don’t want them to get crushed if they take a single hit.</span></p> <p><span>Using a diminishing returns curve for mitigation balances it in such a way that players that are further away from the cap receive more benefit per point of mitigation than does a player that is near the cap. </span></p> <p><span>Another way of looking at this from the perspective of a level 70 player after these changes: </span></p> <blockquote dir="ltr"> <p><span>A player below 4000 in a mitigation type will experience more benefit than they did before, and a player above 4000 in a resist type will experience smaller gains in their damage reduction than before. 4000 is the level 70 break-even point where the old linear line and the new diminishing returns curve meet that returns the same benefit before and after the changes.</span></p></blockquote> <ul><li><span>Player A increases their mitigation from 1000 to 1600. A change of +600, or +9.75% mitigation</span></li><li><span>Player B increases their mitigation from 2000 to 2600. A change of +600, or +6% mitigation</span></li><li><span>Player C increases their mitigation from 5000 to 5600. A change of +600, or +2.15% mitigation</span></li></ul> <p><span></span> </p> <ul><li><span>Player A = 15.4% increase in changed longevity (this benefits mages a lot more than before)</span></li><li><span>Player B = 9.6% increase in changed longevity</span></li><li><span>Player C = 6% increase in changed longevity</span></li></ul>Should help put an end to the rumor.  Basically after 4000 mark you will get less and less % damage mitigated.</blockquote><div></div>

[Magicmind]

Thanks Kiennas!  That makes more sense!

[JNewby]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Magicmind wrote:<BR> Thanks Kiennas!  That makes more sense!<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>its a huge nerf to plate tanks.. ie think about brawlers and how low their mit goes.. and then think of cour advantage over them.. this whole thing stinks AGAIN!!</P> <P> </P>

[Sir_Halbarad]

Stop screaming nerf before you see it <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Mobs will receive the same adjustment we see.How long have Guards asked to get rid of the mitigation cap so they can use the 7k, 8k or more mitigation they can get.No more cap... Be happy.And just for you... New expansions need marketing tools. EoF doesnt have new levels or a new tier. SOE has bad experiences with publishing those. Especially if every raider is running around capped in every desired stat or resist. They need to change some of the numbers - even if it is just changing numbers but keeping the mechanics - to create demand for the stuff. Stuff you will never believe if you compare 1 grp instance EoF loot to raid instance KoS loot... I bet a few plat on this.Mudflation coming to you as well <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Wabit]

<DIV>yes its a nerf for raid tanks...  but it also opens up the game alot more...  right now everything 74 and below is get 6500 mita and you're only takeing 20% damage...  add in 6 or 7 decent healers and you can kill everything with relitive ease...  its nothing but a numbers game...  and once you reach that you start replaceing that pure mita gear (light chitin rings) with HP gear...  the shift of the MT group having to actully take damage and heal has tnred into how much hate the MT can get...  guard, templar, defiler, dirge, coercer, and swashy/assass is becoming a more common group setup...  with all the healers in the raid doing the occasional spot heal but primary roll is dps...  basicly its all about how fast we can kill things because the current caps are so easily obtainable...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>our 30 sec buffs are largely for show, our def buff is useless, i'm like 40 sta over that cap, right at the str cap solo (in def stance), at 80% mita and resist to even con mobs solo...  what need is there to really upgrade my gear untill the lvl cap increases???  i'm still missing the thorax, doomrage shoulders, and anytype of legs but i really don't need them cause i'm already there...  i swap BPs just cause i feel like wearing black, blue, or red...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>by opening up these caps they are actully looking to make some kind of progression in with gear and content...  as of now only the difference between anything is the con (blue, yellow, orange), everything with in that range is almost identical...  the only offset to this has become the huge AEs or frontals similar to what WoF was in t5, or making mobs orange and changeing the con range, but if everyone was 71 the encounter would be a total joke (tarinax would be the exzact same encounter as vyemm)...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>if implamented correctly mobs within the same con range can be varing difficulties by simply makeing each mob hit harder as you get deeper in a dungon...  the game currently has this but its meaningless...  x4 encounters should take 24 people not a group (spires) or group and a half (labs trash)...  heroic encounters should take 3 ppl not solo...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>i'll take this nerf in stride, if something wasn't done then there is no reason to play the game again until the lvl cap is increased to 80...  i hated LU13, it broke my guard...  this is leaving my class intact, and my class works very well...  its the game mechanics that are changing somewhat, and they have needed it since t7 came out...  clearing labs early on in t6 fabled and t7 legendary, and knowing i could do the same with almost every epic encouter in the t7...  now if the KoS gear is actully starter gear for EoF raids and they make gear and content progressivly better and more difficult with KoS being the base then the game will have some life left in it...  </DIV>

[JNewby]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Wabit wrote:<BR> <DIV>yes its a nerf for raid tanks...  but it also opens up the game alot more...  right now everything 74 and below is get 6500 mita and you're only takeing 20% damage...  add in 6 or 7 decent healers and you can kill everything with relitive ease...  its nothing but a numbers game...  and once you reach that you start replaceing that pure mita gear (light chitin rings) with HP gear...  the shift of the MT group having to actully take damage and heal has tnred into how much hate the MT can get...  guard, templar, defiler, dirge, coercer, and swashy/assass is becoming a more common group setup...  with all the healers in the raid doing the occasional spot heal but primary roll is dps...  basicly its all about how fast we can kill things because the current caps are so easily obtainable...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>our 30 sec buffs are largely for show, our def buff is useless, i'm like 40 sta over that cap, right at the str cap solo (in def stance), at 80% mita and resist to even con mobs solo...  what need is there to really upgrade my gear untill the lvl cap increases???  i'm still missing the thorax, doomrage shoulders, and anytype of legs but i really don't need them cause i'm already there...  i swap BPs just cause i feel like wearing black, blue, or red...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>by opening up these caps they are actully looking to make some kind of progression in with gear and content...  as of now only the difference between anything is the con (blue, yellow, orange), everything with in that range is almost identical...  the only offset to this has become the huge AEs or frontals similar to what WoF was in t5, or making mobs orange and changeing the con range, but if everyone was 71 the encounter would be a total joke (tarinax would be the exzact same encounter as vyemm)...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>if implamented correctly mobs within the same con range can be varing difficulties by simply makeing each mob hit harder as you get deeper in a dungon...  the game currently has this but its meaningless...  x4 encounters should take 24 people not a group (spires) or group and a half (labs trash)...  heroic encounters should take 3 ppl not solo...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>i'll take this nerf in stride, if something wasn't done then there is no reason to play the game again until the lvl cap is increased to 80...  i hated LU13, it broke my guard...  this is leaving my class intact, and my class works very well...  its the game mechanics that are changing somewhat, and they have needed it since t7 came out...  clearing labs early on in t6 fabled and t7 legendary, and knowing i could do the same with almost every epic encouter in the t7...  now if the KoS gear is actully starter gear for EoF raids and they make gear and content progressivly better and more difficult with KoS being the base then the game will have some life left in it...  </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>umm good point... but umm can they at least get rid of our dmg soaking lines this time when they nerf us and give ussoemthing useful <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />)</P> <P> </P>

[Wabit]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> JNewby wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>umm good point... but umm can they at least get rid of our dmg soaking lines this time when they nerf us and give ussoemthing useful <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />)<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>they have their uses, some are few and far between yes but still have some limited use...  i've used every ability 58+ on raids before and all of the ancient teachings, even grey intercede...  sentry watch is useful on bad pulls and memwipe mobs, sustain is good to put on healers for fights like MO...  and stone sphere is nice for the proc...  its a matter of when to use them and when not too...  i might not use them but a couple times a week, but the times i do i'm glad i have them...</DIV>

[Rah]

<P>Wabit brought out some great points, the ones I thought of note I highlighted in <FONT color=#ff0000>red</FONT>.. added a few of my own in <FONT color=#66cc00>green</FONT> for consideration.</P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Wabit wrote:<BR> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>yes its a nerf for raid tanks</FONT>...  but it also opens up the game alot more...  right now everything 74 and below is get 6500 mita and you're only takeing 20% damage...  add in 6 or 7 decent healers and you can kill everything with relitive ease...  its nothing but a numbers game...  and once you reach that you start replaceing that pure mita gear (light chitin rings) with HP gear...  <FONT color=#ff0000>the shift of the MT group having to actully take damage and heal has tnred into how much hate the MT can get</FONT>...  guard, templar, defiler, dirge, coercer, and swashy/assass is becoming a more common group setup...  with all the healers in the raid doing the occasional spot heal but primary roll is dps...  basicly its all about how fast we can kill things because the current caps are so easily obtainable...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>If this is to equal out the difference between mitigation and avoidance tanking, and it appears it will, whats your thoughts on bruisers already having a higher hp base and a higher hate generation ability? Doesnt it seem that the scales will tip?</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>our 30 sec buffs are largely for show, our def buff is useless, i'm like 40 sta over that cap, right at the str cap solo (in def stance), at 80% mita and resist to even con mobs solo...  what need is there to really upgrade my gear untill the lvl cap increases???  i'm still missing the thorax, doomrage shoulders, and anytype of legs but i really don't need them cause i'm already there...  i swap BPs just cause i feel like wearing black, blue, or red...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>I didnt see one mention of Defensive cap being adjusted, yet every other combat mechanic associated with it seems to be. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>One of the red flags from my point of view, especially since that is our forte. As far as the mitigation buffs Wall of Force and our 30sec may need t be adjusted to fit more with the new mitigation rules, left as is may or may not mean anything in the nerf curve and will fall into that <EM>"isnt that special"</EM> category of CA's.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>by opening up these caps they are actully looking to make some kind of progression in with gear and content</FONT>...  as of now only the difference between anything is the con (blue, yellow, orange), everything with in that range is almost identical...  the only offset to this has become the huge AEs or frontals similar to what WoF was in t5, or making mobs orange and changeing the con range, but if everyone was 71 the encounter would be a total joke (tarinax would be the exzact same encounter as vyemm)...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>Concur this is an itemization move, or at least appears to be. I hope the impact isnt to severe on my guardian.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>if implamented correctly mobs within the same con range can be varing difficulties by simply makeing each mob hit harder as you get deeper in a dungon...  the game currently has this but its meaningless...  x4 encounters should take 24 people not a group (spires) or group and a half (labs trash)...  heroic encounters should take 3 ppl not solo...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>Amen! Thats what the text says but has been far from what is required for several classes.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>I'll take this nerf in stride</FONT>, if something wasn't done then there is no reason to play the game again until the lvl cap is increased to 80...  i hated LU13, it broke my guard...  this is leaving my class intact, and my class works very well...  its the game mechanics that are changing somewhat, and they have needed it since t7 came out...  clearing labs early on in t6 fabled and t7 legendary, and knowing i could do the same with almost every epic encouter in the t7...  now if the KoS gear is actully starter gear for EoF raids and they make gear and content progressivly better and more difficult with KoS being the base then the game will have some life left in it...  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>I hope that same Dev crew that submarine patched us back together after some horrid changes is still on the team for this combat update. I really dont want to live through all that again. So I to hope I can take this in stride.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>On a bright note if it gets bad we can all roll Fae tanks and put them on new mounts so what are we really worried about?</FONT></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Rahge<BR>

[Sir_Halbarad]

I am still pretty sure that this change will mean one thing: thinking (about raiding here)T7 (KoS) is unchanged. Mobs will be adjusted to equal the current situation - give or take a few patches where some mobs will be ridiculous hard and others unkillable.T7 (EoF) is unbelievable hard. Like full Deathtoll fabled required to start on starter EoF raid zones.Or they mix content. Having a raid zone below Labs in EoF, then Labs in KoS, then another zone in EoF, then Lyceum, more in EoF, and then a mix of HoS, DT and EoF raid zones.

[Wabit]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Rahge wrote:<BR> <P><FONT color=#66ff00>If this is to equal out the difference between mitigation and avoidance tanking, and it appears it will, whats your thoughts on bruisers already having a higher hp base and a higher hate generation ability? Doesnt it seem that the scales will tip?</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff00ff>brawlers have a larger base HP pool yes, but its really only noticable when you have 2 completely nekkid toons.  guards sta buff and our group HP buff make up that differne a few times over...  Brawlers ave very good single target argo, but their AE agro is lacking, even as a guard i cycle targets alot, a brawler has to do so even more to have a chance at agro in AE encounters...  their hate building is done via hitting the mob, yet they lack the + crush/slash/pierce that guads get to offest the loss of being in def stance (very evidant on orange mobs)...  imho i think plate tanks will still be prefered, epics do have the to-hit modifer which makes avoidance less than is actully displayed, mita is always there so the damage is more steady, avoidance can still be streaky where the RNG jsut sucks and you'er never avoiding and getting nailed for bigger hits than a plate tank...  i could be completely wrong on this, and brawlers become the raid tank of choice... but even if they are better having a plate tank tanking is really engrained into peoples minds, breaking that mindset would be the biggest obstical...</FONT></P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>I didnt see one mention of Defensive cap being adjusted, yet every other combat mechanic associated with it seems to be. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>One of the red flags from my point of view, especially since that is our forte. As far as the mitigation buffs Wall of Force and our 30sec may need t be adjusted to fit more with the new mitigation rules, left as is may or may not mean anything in the nerf curve and will fall into that <EM>"isnt that special"</EM> category of CA's.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff00ff>as it is right now the 30 sec buffs are really useless i hit them out of habit but if i need to be i'm sitting at 6500 mita vs whatever damage type is needed for that mob via gear...  i'd rather have them do something than nothing...  it would also bring some meaning to other classes like furies urchin...</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>Rahge<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[WolfSha]

<P><FONT color=#3366ff> am still pretty sure that this change will mean one thing: thinking (about raiding here)<BR><BR>T7 (KoS) is unchanged. Mobs will be adjusted to equal the current situation - give or take a few patches where some mobs will be ridiculous hard and others unkillable.<BR><BR>T7 (EoF) is unbelievable hard. Like full Deathtoll fabled required to start on starter EoF raid zones.<BR><BR>Or they mix content. <BR><BR>Having a raid zone below Labs in EoF, then Labs in KoS, then another zone in EoF, then Lyceum, more in EoF, and then a mix of HoS, DT and EoF raid zones.<BR></FONT></P> <P>Well as our current T7 gear will only get us half way to the new caps and assuming that's partly to make people buy EoF to get the new uber gear to get them closer to caps then there's 2 options.</P> <P>1) Either EoF is MUCH harder and there's basically a whole new tier there, in which case why not just raise the level cap, or</P> <P>2) KoS will become unplayable without EoF.  </P> <P>We're all being nerfed so that we can grow, that's fair enough, but they're either going to create a new (effective) tier for us to grow into or force us to buy EoF to be able to play KoS because you'll need to un-nerf yourself with EoF gear :smileysurprised:</P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by WolfShark on <span class=date_text>10-03-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:57 AM</span>

[vatorman99]

<div><blockquote><hr>WolfShark wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <div></div> <div></div> <p>We're all being nerfed so that we can grow, that's fair enough, but they're either going to create a new (effective) tier for us to grow into or force us to buy EoF to be able to play KoS because you'll need to un-nerf yourself with EoF gear :smileysurprised:</p> <p>Message Edited by WolfShark on <span class="date_text">10-03-2006</span> <span class="time_text">04:57 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>SHHHHHHH!  The folks over in the marketing department at SOE might read this and think, hmmmmmmmm <span>:smileytongue:</span></div>

[Mentin]

<P>To give us something to do in EoF they need to build some mudflation into the game.</P> <P>With the currently easily obtainable caps that mudflation would be worthless.</P> <P>So it really is a prerequisite to make a worthwhile no-new-levels expansion that they do this.</P> <P>Hopefully they will tweak class balances a little too, like giving berserkers more defensive penalty for their offensive ability.</P> <P> </P>

[Rah]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> <BR> <P>If this is to equal out the difference between mitigation and avoidance tanking, and it appears it will, whats your thoughts on bruisers already having a higher hp base and a higher hate generation ability? Doesnt it seem that the scales will tip?</P> <P><FONT color=#9933cc>Wabit wrote:</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff00ff>brawlers have a larger base HP pool yes, but its really only noticable when you have 2 completely nekkid toons.  guards sta buff and our group HP buff make up that differne a few times over...  Brawlers ave very good single target argo, but their AE agro is lacking, even as a guard i cycle targets alot, a brawler has to do so even more to have a chance at agro in AE encounters...  their hate building is done via hitting the mob, yet they lack the + crush/slash/pierce that guads get to offest the loss of being in def stance (very evidant on orange mobs)...  imho i think plate tanks will still be prefered, <FONT color=#ffff00>epics do have the to-hit modifer which makes avoidance less than is actully displayed</FONT>, mita is always there so the damage is more steady, avoidance can still be streaky where the RNG jsut sucks and you'er never avoiding and getting nailed for bigger hits than a plate tank...  i could be completely wrong on this, and brawlers become the raid tank of choice... but even if they are better having a plate tank tanking is really engrained into peoples minds, breaking that mindset would be the biggest obstical...</FONT></P> <P>__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _____________________</P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00>Okay now Im lost on this. </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00>I was under the impression that this combat change addressed the very issue of To-Hit and Avoidance tanking. Changing the cap on avoidance will have a direct impact on the problem pajama tanks are having. Guess I need to review the Dev notes and see were I got lost. </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00>For the record I dont care about tank of choice I just want to be able to take damage better than any other tank class, Im hoping we still will hold the corner on that market. </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00>We shall see.</FONT></P> <P>__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ________________</P> <P>I didnt see one mention of Defensive cap being adjusted, yet every other combat mechanic associated with it seems to be. One of the red flags from my point of view, especially since that is our forte. As far as the mitigation buffs Wall of Force and our 30sec may need t be adjusted to fit more with the new mitigation rules, left as is may or may not mean anything in the nerf curve and will fall into that "isnt that special" category of CA's.</P> <P><FONT color=#993399>Wabit wrote:</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff00ff>as it is right now the 30 sec buffs are really useless i hit them out of habit but if i need to be i'm sitting at 6500 mita vs whatever damage type is needed for that mob via gear...  <FONT color=#ffff00>i'd rather have them do something than nothing</FONT>...  it would also bring some meaning to other classes like furies urchin...</FONT></P> <P></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><FONT color=#66ff00>I am not yet pushing that kind of Mit, working on it! </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00>So to me those buffs on a pull and cycling them do help me to lower the damage I take I hope  that they will be adjusted to continue to have that effect (i.e. if I find myself in that linear/bell nerf curve using them will not keep me in that curve of no effect). Of course that is coming from a Leg/Fabled guard which from what I have read and what most have commented on will place me smack in the middle of that nerf curve.   </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00>I understand this is all just guess work since nothing has even hit any of the servers yet. </FONT></P><FONT color=#66ff00></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE>Rahge</BLOCKQUOTE>

[Wabit]

<P>the first thing that honestly came to my mind was the taunt mechanics...  our HtL, confront, and taunting assult are all from the last tier...  taunts hit between the range it says, they don't increase with debuffs...  when the dps starts gaining from the new curve we will find our taunts being even weaker than they are now...  raiding without an agro dump, dirge, or coercer is already a painful process...  heck even grouping with wizzy/warlock and maintaining agro now is pita...</P> <P>the shift has already been made from useing our taunts for agro to our dps as our primary form of agro control is already well documented...  i'm really concerned that this will be even more evident... </P>

[Kriddle Kraddle]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sir_Halbarad wrote:<BR>I am still pretty sure that this change will mean one thing: thinking (about raiding here)<BR><BR>T7 (KoS) is unchanged. Mobs will be adjusted to equal the current situation - give or take a few patches where some mobs will be ridiculous hard and others unkillable.<BR><BR><STRONG>T7 (EoF) is unbelievable hard. Like full Deathtoll fabled required to start on starter EoF raid zones</STRONG>.<BR><BR>Or they mix content. <BR><BR>Having a raid zone below Labs in EoF, then Labs in KoS, then another zone in EoF, then Lyceum, more in EoF, and then a mix of HoS, DT and EoF raid zones.<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>EoF should be the hardest encounters period. Raid mobs should start at a hard level 74 similar to Cruor and go up to 76 or 77(that is if they exhaust all other ways to make the encounter harder). As for your comment about full DT loot required to start EoF zones that is total crap. You obviously dont compare loot from DT to other zones because there are better peices out there than DT. For one Cheldrak and Matron but aside from that Lyceum, HoS, Labs all have better loot for some locations.</P> <P>Im not saying all DT loot sucks but you might need to reevaluate what you are using if you think all DT loot is better. Also Fabled doesnt always mean better.<BR></P>

[Gaige]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> Wabit wrote: <P><FONT color=#ff00ff>epics do have the to-hit modifer which makes avoidance less than is actully displayed</FONT></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Not in EoF they won't.<BR></DIV>