Aggro in Raid T7

[Josey]

<DIV>Ok so I am defiately doing something wrong.  So I'm coming here for some good ideas.  </DIV> <DIV>In a nut shell I am having extremely hard time keeping aggro on multiple mobs in raid situations.  Single mobs = no worries.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>lvl 70  everything adept 3 or master</DIV> <DIV>50 AAs  Sta/Wis </DIV> <DIV>raid setups include dirge coercer hate gain every time.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Usually monk pulls to me and I step up from there.  </DIV> <DIV>1.  Open up with confront/ protect/goading assault/vengeful strike.</DIV> <DIV>2.  Using debuffs but mostly letting the 100%dps mod and 76% double attack do its thing.  </DIV> <DIV>3.  I cycle through mobs usually dropping one at 15% and moving to next.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I usually loose one out of 3 doing this.  I know a guardian can hold this aggro especially with 80% hate gain.  The MT in guild does it just fine.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>any suggetions or questions as to what i do please let me know.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>prethnx    </DIV>

[Pins]

Lower the aggro of the people pulling aggro?

[Aven Elonis]

<P>Just to make sure, talking apples to apples - are you talking about 3 to 4 tragets in a single mob, or multiple mobs with 1 or more targets?</P> <P>Most will have problems with mutliple mobs, but not really with multiple targets in a single mob.</P> <P>If it is multiple mobs, try Reinforcement with Besiege and then your AoE Damage Taunt.</P> <P>If you have a warlock in the dps group, try a Troub to help on thier deaggro.</P> <P>I also feel the use of an MA to direct the DPS helps on aggro management. It will be the AoE damage types that can be the problem children. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>Others will likely have other suggestions for ya.</P>

[Domiuk]

<DIV>good chance your doing nothing wrong and indeed it is whoever is pulling agro is either over dpsing or just as likely your raid setup is not lowering other groups agro enough.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Who is pulling agro on the other mobs ?   if its not an aoe class then they are doing something wrong.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Guardian aoe hate gain is not great so almost any decent aoe class with no hate reduction on will pull agro off you if they go hard.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>usual suggestions , troubadours in your dps groups, amends on warlocks /pets  moderate on a bruiser/ monk etc</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My guess is its the same 1 or 2 people you lose agro to every time sort them out and the problem will go away.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Domiuk]

<DIV>Oh and my above does assume your using a ma and that everybody in your raid is indeed using /assist and your necros are not simply picking there own target cos it improves there dps etc.</DIV>

[Bai]

<P>Just a thought. You may want to rework your AP line.  I prefer the Int/Str line for the added avoidance and hate. The Int line has taken my avoidance to 65% raid buffed which isn't to bad for a guard with raid buffed maxed mit (80% I believe).  This leaves me at around 11K hp. There are tanks out there with more hp but I don' t need it with the mit/avoid I run.  Now to help with aggro (your question). Your double attack with 100% dps and 76% haste really doesnt add enough hate to count for a guard... a monk maybe but not a guard. You earn 1 point of hate for every strike you land. A guard even with your dps modifiers is still too slow. That MAY put you around 600 dps which is great for a guard but still poor over all on the dps field. The str AP line adds 45% hate gain to the guard. Since I have utilized the Str line for the bonus hate gain, I have few aggro problems when I am on my game.  So when I loose aggro, it is mostly my fault for not paying attention and not my toons ability. I say mostly because there are always going to be those twinked dpsers that just rock the mobs world... </P> <P>This hate gain  is also tied to your aoe taunts. As long as your raid is /assist your MA (main assist) and your MA is not mob jumping then you shouldnt have a problem because everyone should be on the same mob. Your aoe taunt's  should be good enough to keep the adds from the healers. Another thing, if your raid is assisting your MA then you should be free to mob jump to drop single taunts as well to build more hate if needed. If you have a chanter mezzing the mobs then turn off your auto attack and use your non damage taunts to build aggro without "waking" the mobs.  Your raid should never be assisting the MT for this reason more than any other.</P> <P>Hope this helps some.</P> <P> </P>

[Josey]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Aven Elonis wrote:<BR> <P>Just to make sure, talking apples to apples - are you talking about 3 to 4 tragets in a single mob, or multiple mobs with 1 or more targets?  </P> <P><FONT color=#0033ff>3-4 targets in single mob</FONT></P> <P>Most will have problems with mutliple mobs, but not really with multiple targets in a single mob.</P> <P>If it is multiple mobs, try Reinforcement with Besiege and then your AoE Damage Taunt.</P> <P><FONT color=#0033ff>will try this thnx.</FONT></P> <P>If you have a warlock in the dps group, try a Troub to help on thier deaggro.</P> <P><FONT color=#0000ff>the raid setup is usually the same if not extremely similar when other guardian tanks.  Most of our DPSers have been in guild for good while and control their aggro well.  I seem to be the only tank having these issues.  havign relatively same gear and spell setup.</FONT></P> <P>I also feel the use of an MA to direct the DPS helps on aggro management. It will be the AoE damage types that can be the problem children. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P><FONT color=#0000cc>Yeah we use a designated MA on all raids.  I usually start out with first target hes on then migrate to other as the mobs approach 15% health.</FONT>  </P> <P>Others will likely have other suggestions for ya.</P> <P><FONT color=#0000cc>will try that reinforcement . the downside being the recast timer.</FONT></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><p>Message Edited by josey02 on <span class=date_text>09-08-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:03 AM</span>

[Josey]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Bailo wrote:<BR> <P>Just a thought. You may want to rework your AP line.  I prefer the Int/Str line for the added avoidance and hate. The Int line has taken my avoidance to 65% raid buffed which isn't to bad for a guard with raid buffed maxed mit (80% I believe).  This leaves me at around 11K hp. There are tanks out there with more hp but I don' t need it with the mit/avoid I run.  Now to help with aggro (your question). Your double attack with 100% dps and 76% haste really doesnt add enough hate to count for a guard... a monk maybe but not a guard. You earn 1 point of hate for every strike you land. A guard even with your dps modifiers is still too slow. That MAY put you around 600 dps which is great for a guard but still poor over all on the dps field. The str AP line adds 45% hate gain to the guard. Since I have utilized the Str line for the bonus hate gain, I have few aggro problems when I am on my game.  So when I loose aggro, it is mostly my fault for not paying attention and not my toons ability. I say mostly because there are always going to be those twinked dpsers that just rock the mobs world... </P> <P>This hate gain  is also tied to your aoe taunts. As long as your raid is /assist your MA (main assist) and your MA is not mob jumping then you shouldnt have a problem because everyone should be on the same mob. Your aoe taunt's  should be good enough to keep the adds from the healers. Another thing, if your raid is assisting your MA then you should be free to mob jump to drop single taunts as well to build more hate if needed. If you have a chanter mezzing the mobs then turn off your auto attack and use your non damage taunts to build aggro without "waking" the mobs.  Your raid should never be assisting the MT for this reason more than any other.</P> <P>Hope this helps some.</P> <P> </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><FONT color=#0000ff>Thnx for the info.  </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#0000ff>usually I parse around 750-850 on raids when in MT group.  </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#0000ff>I would be more open to changing AA lines if I didnt see how well our full time MT maintains aggro with this same setup and every MT (in top 3 guilds) on our server uses these same 2 lines to MT everything from Labs to Cheldrak. I am very tempted to try you setup however and run some tests.  </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#0000ff></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#0000ff>thnx for help</FONT></P> <P><BR></P>

[Josey]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Domiuk wrote:<BR> <DIV>good chance your doing nothing wrong and indeed it is whoever is pulling agro is either over dpsing or just as likely your raid setup is not lowering other groups agro enough.</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#000099>other MT doesnt seem to have these issues with same group setup.  in same zones</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Who is pulling agro on the other mobs ?   if its not an aoe class then they are doing something wrong.</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000cc>Last night for example, lost aggro to swashy, monk, then chanter.  seemed random.  different classes kept getting aggro, mostly on multiple mobs in Linked encounters.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Guardian aoe hate gain is not great so almost any decent aoe class with no hate reduction on will pull agro off you if they go hard.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>usual suggestions , troubadours in your dps groups, amends on warlocks /pets  moderate on a bruiser/ monk etc</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000cc>Using same raid setup as the full time MT uses for most part.  everyonce in awhile there are a few variations.</FONT></DIV> <DIV>My guess is its the same 1 or 2 people you lose agro to every time sort them out and the problem will go away.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[Domiuk]

<DIV> <DIV>Ok lets assume its you then <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Inflaming defense (err make sure its on)  get it master 1  at 80% hate gain half the time the extra mobs hit you thats nearly a 1000 hate.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Space out protection (i assume this is master 2) and goading assault a little,  your looking for steady aoe hate gain.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Besiege is of course also your freind again your going for stdy so no , ga,protect,besiege combo.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Wait a little longer before calling for assist !    As long as you are not getting absolutely pummeled in those first few seconds give yourself a chance to build up a bit of hate.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If your still having problems , tell your raid to simply back off on the aoes. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A few seconds longer on the fights is better than deaths.</DIV></DIV>

[Lightbearer007]

<div><blockquote><hr>Bailo wrote:<div></div> <p>Just a thought. You may want to rework your AP line.  I prefer the Int/Str line for the added avoidance and hate. The Int line has taken my avoidance to 65% raid buffed which isn't to bad for a guard with raid buffed maxed mit (80% I believe).  This leaves me at around 11K hp. There are tanks out there with more hp but I don' t need it with the mit/avoid I run.  Now to help with aggro (your question). Your double attack with 100% dps and 76% haste really doesnt add enough hate to count for a guard... a monk maybe but not a guard. You earn 1 point of hate for every strike you land. A guard even with your dps modifiers is still too slow. That MAY put you around 600 dps which is great for a guard but still poor over all on the dps field. The str AP line adds 45% hate gain to the guard. Since I have utilized the Str line for the bonus hate gain, I have few aggro problems when I am on my game.  So when I loose aggro, it is mostly my fault for not paying attention and not my toons ability. I say mostly because there are always going to be those twinked dpsers that just rock the mobs world... </p> <p>This hate gain  is also tied to your aoe taunts. As long as your raid is /assist your MA (main assist) and your MA is not mob jumping then you shouldnt have a problem because everyone should be on the same mob. Your aoe taunt's  should be good enough to keep the adds from the healers. Another thing, if your raid is assisting your MA then you should be free to mob jump to drop single taunts as well to build more hate if needed. If you have a chanter mezzing the mobs then turn off your auto attack and use your non damage taunts to build aggro without "waking" the mobs.  Your raid should never be assisting the MT for this reason more than any other.</p> <p>Hope this helps some.</p> <hr></blockquote>To correct a few things, there is not just 1 point of hate gained per melee strike. Hate and damage are on a ratio of 1:1. So say you have double attack on 76% of the time and you are averaging 200-300 damage per hit. If you double attack every 2 seconds with haste and double attack, the damage will outweigh the hate gain provided by the extra boost on the str line. </div>

[Wabit]

<P>to the OP, what 1H are you useing???  if you have CA's up spam them...  waiting for autoattck or HtL to hold agro is not playing your guard to its full potential...</P> <P>even if you have a 2.0 delay with 100% haste, our CAs are mostly 1 sec to cast...  that means no missed swings with your 1H...</P> <P><BR> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Bailo wrote:<BR> <P>Just a thought. You may want to rework your AP line.  I prefer the Int/Str line for the added avoidance and hate. The Int line has taken my avoidance to 65% raid buffed which isn't to bad for a guard with raid buffed maxed mit (80% I believe).  This leaves me at around 11K hp. There are tanks out there with more hp but I don' t need it with the mit/avoid I run.  Now to help with aggro (your question). Your double attack with 100% dps and 76% haste really doesnt add enough hate to count for a guard... a monk maybe but not a guard. You earn 1 point of hate for every strike you land. A guard even with your dps modifiers is still too slow. That MAY put you around 600 dps which is great for a guard but still poor over all on the dps field. The str AP line adds 45% hate gain to the guard. Since I have utilized the Str line for the bonus hate gain, I have few aggro problems when I am on my game.  So when I loose aggro, it is mostly my fault for not paying attention and not my toons ability. I say mostly because there are always going to be those twinked dpsers that just rock the mobs world... </P> <P>This hate gain  is also tied to your aoe taunts. As long as your raid is /assist your MA (main assist) and your MA is not mob jumping then you shouldnt have a problem because everyone should be on the same mob. Your aoe taunt's  should be good enough to keep the adds from the healers. Another thing, if your raid is assisting your MA then you should be free to mob jump to drop single taunts as well to build more hate if needed. If you have a chanter mezzing the mobs then turn off your auto attack and use your non damage taunts to build aggro without "waking" the mobs.  Your raid should never be assisting the MT for this reason more than any other.</P> <P>Hope this helps some.</P> <P> </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE></DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>when did they change the str AA???  it used to be a 10% hate gain...  the haste for int < double attack for hate gain...  don't forget buckler reversal for its dps...</P>

[Tucan]

<div></div><div>Some ideas in-line below...<b><i>"Usually monk pulls to me and I step up from there. "</i></b>Whenever it's possible/safe enough, I pull directly rather than having an FD class do it.  This gets you a bit of extra "alone time" with the mobs, and allows an extra reactive taunt or two to kick off.  By the time the mobs are parked and ready to be DPS'd down, I'm kicking off a second AE Taunt.  Obviously, this is situational, but it seems to help when possible.<i></i></div><div><b><i>"1.  Open up with confront/ protect/goading assault/vengeful strike."</i></b>I'd add Beseige into the mix as well.. may as well get the extra dmg out there.  I try to lead off with Confront / Protect / Beseige / Goading assault, and then go to single attack CA's.</div><div><i><b>"2.  Using debuffs but mostly letting the 100%dps mod and 76% double attack do its thing. "</b></i>Squeezing in a couple pure damage CA's here may help a bit as well depending on your weapon delay, power consumption, etc..</div><div>Other than that, it usually comes down to group setup and deaggro, so if the groups are the same you should be ok.  I went with the Str/Wis lines for the extra crits/hate/dps and mitigation, but as you said there are several workable AA setups.  If all else fails, try to work the swash you were losing aggro to into the MT group for aggro transfer =)</div>Hope somthing here helps!<div></div>

[Tucan]

<div></div>Wabit wrote:<blockquote><div>when did they change the str AA???  it used to be a 10% hate gain...</div></blockquote><div><div align="left">Pretty sure it's still 10% hate gain</div></div><blockquote></blockquote><div></div>

[Ep]

if you find yourself in the postion to replace the regular mt, and everyone else in the raid is just doing exactly what they've been doing all this time, then i guess the problem would be you. Barring all factors like correct dps group makeup and the like.eh just keep sta/wis aa's everyone else does like others said you might want to spam more, your not going to be able to wait around for double attack to do it's thing against a raid pushing 10-13k. Don't forget master spells too, if you don't have em, get em.<div></div>

[Josey]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Wabit wrote:<BR> <P>to the OP, what 1H are you useing???  if you have CA's up spam them...  waiting for autoattck or HtL to hold agro is not playing your guard to its full potential...</P> <P><FONT color=#0000ff>Using Viluciades Sword of Shielding 3sec delay, Dragonrib Club 1.6 delay, and wyrmslayer for drac based crap</FONT></P> <P>even if you have a 2.0 delay with 100% haste, our CAs are mostly 1 sec to cast...  that means no missed swings with your 1H...</P> <P><FONT color=#0000cc>noted and thnx for heads up</FONT></P> <P><BR> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Bailo wrote:<BR> <P>Just a thought. You may want to rework your AP line.  I prefer the Int/Str line for the added avoidance and hate. The Int line has taken my avoidance to 65% raid buffed which isn't to bad for a guard with raid buffed maxed mit (80% I believe).  This leaves me at around 11K hp. There are tanks out there with more hp but I don' t need it with the mit/avoid I run.  Now to help with aggro (your question). Your double attack with 100% dps and 76% haste really doesnt add enough hate to count for a guard... a monk maybe but not a guard. You earn 1 point of hate for every strike you land. A guard even with your dps modifiers is still too slow. That MAY put you around 600 dps which is great for a guard but still poor over all on the dps field. The str AP line adds 45% hate gain to the guard. Since I have utilized the Str line for the bonus hate gain, I have few aggro problems when I am on my game.  So when I loose aggro, it is mostly my fault for not paying attention and not my toons ability. I say mostly because there are always going to be those twinked dpsers that just rock the mobs world... </P> <P>This hate gain  is also tied to your aoe taunts. As long as your raid is /assist your MA (main assist) and your MA is not mob jumping then you shouldnt have a problem because everyone should be on the same mob. Your aoe taunt's  should be good enough to keep the adds from the healers. Another thing, if your raid is assisting your MA then you should be free to mob jump to drop single taunts as well to build more hate if needed. If you have a chanter mezzing the mobs then turn off your auto attack and use your non damage taunts to build aggro without "waking" the mobs.  Your raid should never be assisting the MT for this reason more than any other.</P> <P>Hope this helps some.</P> <P> </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE></DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>when did they change the str AA???  it used to be a 10% hate gain...  the haste for int < double attack for hate gain...  don't forget buckler reversal for its dps...</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[Josey]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tucan wrote:<BR> <DIV>Some ideas in-line below...<B><I><BR><BR>"Usually monk pulls to me and I step up from there. "</I></B><BR>Whenever it's possible/safe enough, I pull directly rather than having an FD class do it.  This gets you a bit of extra "alone time" with the mobs, and allows an extra reactive taunt or two to kick off.  By the time the mobs are parked and ready to be DPS'd down, I'm kicking off a second AE Taunt.  Obviously, this is situational, but it seems to help when possible.</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff>sounds bueno,  will do this</FONT><BR><I><BR></I></DIV> <DIV><B><I>"1.  Open up with confront/ protect/goading assault/vengeful strike."<BR></I></B>I'd add Beseige into the mix as well.. may as well get the extra dmg out there.  I try to lead off with Confront / Protect / Beseige / Goading assault, and then go to single attack CA's.</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000cc>kk, ill try this as well</FONT><BR><BR></DIV> <DIV><I><B>"2.  Using debuffs but mostly letting the 100%dps mod and 76% double attack do its thing. "</B></I><BR>Squeezing in a couple pure damage CA's here may help a bit as well depending on your weapon delay, power consumption, etc..<BR><BR></DIV> <DIV>Other than that, it usually comes down to group setup and deaggro, so if the groups are the same you should be ok.  I went with the Str/Wis lines for the extra crits/hate/dps and mitigation, but as you said there are several workable AA setups.  If all else fails, try to work the swash you were losing aggro to into the MT group for aggro transfer =)<BR></DIV><BR>Hope somthing here helps!<BR><BR><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>thnx ton for info guys will put it to use.<BR>

[Docimodo]

<DIV>My solution to your problem:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Get your offtank to be main assist and tell him to taunt the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] out of the mob he is targetting. He can easily tank one mob of a large encounter (even in a poorly buffed group) and this allows u to focus on spreading your single target stuff around the rest of the encounter without the worry of losing the assisted mob to high single target dmg.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I use two tanks in every encounter that has more than one mob. It just means no loss of aggro to a weak class even if they go nuts.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Obviously if there is a boss in the mix u will need to change the spread of mobs between mt and ot depending on whats dying first etc.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Docimodo on <span class=date_text>09-08-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:39 PM</span>

[Dart]

<DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#66ff00 size=2><SPAN class=070552116-12092006>Note: I am in the same guild as the Josey.</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#66ff00 size=2><SPAN class=070552116-12092006></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#66ff00 size=2><SPAN class=070552116-12092006>Some very good ideas up there, thanks for all of the help.</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#66ff00 size=2><SPAN class=070552116-12092006></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#66ff00 size=2><SPAN class=070552116-12092006>We do use a second MT and sometimes depending on encounter have them taunt the ever living [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] on the MA's target to ensure lost agro goes to them not a caster, its a great idea that I think we need to do more of.</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#66ff00 size=2><SPAN class=070552116-12092006></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#66ff00 size=2><SPAN class=070552116-12092006>We push anywhere from 13k to 20k DPS. And even the regular MT loses agro on occasion.</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#66ff00 size=2><SPAN class=070552116-12092006></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#66ff00 size=2><SPAN class=070552116-12092006>We always have 80% hate on the MT.</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#66ff00 size=2><SPAN class=070552116-12092006></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#66ff00 size=2><SPAN class=070552116-12092006>We always have agro reducers on the heavy AE'rs and such, and very well balanced raids.</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#66ff00 size=2><SPAN class=070552116-12092006></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#66ff00 size=2><SPAN class=070552116-12092006><SPAN class=070552116-12092006>I think if Josey can incorporate some of the ideas above he will be just fine. Agian thanks for all of the ideas, they should help.</SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV>

[dparker7]

Dont forget to use plant too.  Its a quick cast, and while the root doesnt work, it generates a decent amount of agro.

[lostsandman]

I normally uses Command as well in the agro mix even thogh i don't need that buff for the pull in question.It is group buff and i think it gives me decent amount of hate.Of course you can't really spam this due to the recast time.

[Aaeamyen]

Cycle your targets, simple as pie. Then focus on the one going down. Cycling through the encounter will help you

[Memmoch]

On encounters with multiple mobs I find it helps a ton to make sure you cycle  your primary single target taunt and your single target taunt+dmg.  I try and get it timed (with the raid body) for me blast my reinforcement+besiege+groupencounter taunt/dd in conjuction with Dispatch.  Then I pop my sever and such on the mob that's being dropped and cycle my primary taunt+single target taunt/dmg through the remaining mobs.  Works most the time like a champ.  I do add in plant whenever it's up and other stuff that alot of people here have already mentioned.  I'm pretty tired but hopefully this makes sense and is somewhat helpful lol. <div></div>

[Original Cinadien]

<DIV>The only problem I have with aggro in eq2 is positioning. It's hard to move mobs more than 10-15 feet if the raid is beating on it, no matter what you do.</DIV>

[TuinalOfTheNexus]

<P>IMO for a lot of stuff you're better with a swash or assassin rather than coercer in the MT group. Reason being if you get stunned all the +hate mod in the world is no use to you, and you can usually expect at least 1 mob in a multiple encounter to stun you (hopefully briefly with competent healers) near the start of the fight.</P> <P>Asides from that I'd guess it's partially the fact you're using a seperate puller, which is best avoided unless totally essential, and you're maybe switching targets unnecessarily. Assuming everyone's assisting there's no reason your AE taunts and attacks alone shouldn't be able to match even the most trigger happy warlock, when you take the DPS mod into account.</P> <P>Some other food for thought; the debuff (root) on wall of force generates hate so it's useful even if you don't really need the mitigation. Same for the entrench line. Regardless of whether they affect epics I'm fairly sure the hate still gets generated, from my own experience.</P> <P>My general approach:</P> <P>Pull nearest mob with an arrow if safe to do so (hits for ~1k hate, unfortunately not so good since the nerf - skip this if social might be a problem and body pull)</P> <P>Switch targets immediately and stick a regular taunt on the first add. If you have time, switch again and use taunting blow on one of them. This means ideally you've put 1k+ hate on 3 mobs.</P> <P>Time your first shout very carefully. This is usually the hardest part of the pull and just takes practice. Too early and either mobs will be out of range / sight, or you'll taunt them in aggro range of adds. Too late and your healers are taking hits. If in doubt generally best to let a healer die than bring adds on a raid.</P> <P>With everything around you select the target + call assist, following with goading assault + beseige.</P> <P>Get obliterate and flay off on the first target for a quick 3k more hate to cement things.</P> <P>Wall of force</P> <P>Finally debuffs, and general attack mashing as soon as CAs refresh, with the focus on AE attacks.</P>

[Wabit]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TuinalOfTheNexus wrote:<BR> <P>IMO for a lot of stuff you're better with a swash or assassin rather than coercer in the MT group. Reason being if you get stunned all the +hate mod in the world is no use to you, and you can usually expect at least 1 mob in a multiple encounter to stun you (hopefully briefly with competent healers) near the start of the fight.  <FONT color=#ff00ff>the only fights i can think of is possibly memwipe mobs...  used to be vilusade too but he doesn't chain stun anymore...  assass and swashy don't add any buffs (well pathfinding i guess, and poison from the assass)...  </FONT></P> <P>Asides from that I'd guess it's partially the fact you're using a seperate puller, which is best avoided unless totally essential, and you're maybe switching targets unnecessarily. Assuming everyone's assisting there's no reason your AE taunts and attacks alone shouldn't be able to match even the most trigger happy warlock, when you take the DPS mod into account.  <FONT color=#ff00ff>there is no way my taunts alone will hold agro off a wizzy/warlock unless they have a troub, are being amends/moderated, and have illus dehate on them...  or they have to hold back considerably on their dps...</FONT></P> <P>Some other food for thought; the debuff (root) on wall of force generates hate so it's useful even if you don't really need the mitigation. Same for the entrench line. Regardless of whether they affect epics I'm fairly sure the hate still gets generated, from my own experience.  <FONT color=#ff00ff>i never saw the need to debuff myself with plant and wall of force...  its kinda like a mystic casting torpor on me, i tell them not too...</FONT></P> <P>My general approach:</P> <P>Pull nearest mob with an arrow if safe to do so (hits for ~1k hate, unfortunately not so good since the nerf - skip this if social might be a problem and body pull)</P> <P>Switch targets immediately and stick a regular taunt on the first add. If you have time, switch again and use taunting blow on one of them. This means ideally you've put 1k+ hate on 3 mobs.</P> <P>Time your first shout very carefully. This is usually the hardest part of the pull and just takes practice. Too early and either mobs will be out of range / sight, or you'll taunt them in aggro range of adds. Too late and your healers are taking hits. If in doubt generally best to let a healer die than bring adds on a raid.  <FONT color=#ff00ff>MT </FONT><FONT color=#ff00ff>healers shouldn't die unless the MT is lazy, just cast sentry watch and no dead healer...  if its a nonMT healer let em die, they really shouldn't be casting preanything on you...</FONT></P> <P>With everything around you select the target + call assist, following with goading assault + beseige.</P> <P>Get obliterate and flay off on the first target for a quick 3k more hate to cement things.</P> <P>Wall of force</P> <P>Finally debuffs, and general attack mashing as soon as CAs refresh, with the focus on AE attacks.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>with coercer + dirge you're basicly doubleing your hate gain via attacks and taunts...  on the pull thats where the difference will show...  the assass/swashy add nothing for hate untill they attack...  but the time assist is called i already have everything locked down...  just stack your your hate on the iniatl mob then start cycling and rarely does anything peel off...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>if you really want a hate setup for MT group just go guard, defiler, templar, dirge, coercer, assass/swashy...  i'm more partial to an assass myself, they at least give me a poison proc and a higher % hate transfer (if i remember right)...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>but until they nerf the sta line i'm holding agro more via dps than taunts...  which is ok i guess, considering our HTL is [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]...</DIV>

[dparker7]

<DIV>You can fire off plant, and then click it off and still get the agro.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Docimodo]

<P>someone mentioned healers dying during body pulls above:</P> <P> </P> <P>My solution to your problem:</P> <P>Ban all healers from healing on the pull except those in the main tank group. Place moderate on your cleric and place sustain+unyielding vigilance on your shaman. On the pull cast command+stonesphere+sentry watch. Now your two healers are capable of tanking a mob for quite some time! </P><p>Message Edited by Docimodo on <span class=date_text>09-18-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:28 AM</span>

[Aaeamyen]

Stone Sphear on a raid with AE mobs is insane....

[dparker7]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Docimodo wrote:<BR> <P>someone mentioned healers dying during body pulls above:</P> <P> </P> <P>My solution to your problem:</P> <P>Ban all healers from healing on the pull except those in the main tank group. Place moderate on your cleric and place sustain+unyielding vigilance on your shaman. On the pull cast command+stonesphere+sentry watch. Now your two healers are capable of tanking a mob for quite some time! </P> <P>Message Edited by Docimodo on <SPAN class=date_text>09-18-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>07:28 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Or....   let a healer die every once in a while.  You only need 3 or 4 tops on trash and it'll keep them on their toes, rather then waiting on 2 and 3 minute timers. 

[Docimodo]

<DIV>A: when was the last time u needed to body pull an encounter that aoes heavily?</DIV> <DIV>B: when was the last time you needed to body pull two difficult encounters within three minutes of each other?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Read my post and think before slamming me.. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also if you dont see times when u can use your skills such as stonesphere then you are not playing to the best of your ability... Vilucidea is just one of a crap load of times that you can use it... as to not using it when the mobs can ae well it all depends on the ae... ive had my offtank in my mt group for the doom trio. he holds the two non memwipe mobs whilst i hold the memwiper. on the pull i cast all of the mit and intercept buffs. so im taking hits from two tanks and intercepting an ae or two and it doesnt dent my hp. Granted this is an easy fight but /shrug... </DIV> <P><SPAN class=time_text>Also if your tanks are so super slow as to not be able to single shot intercept on the priests that atre going down well... /shrug</SPAN> <P><SPAN class=time_text>And also who said you cant turn off the buffs as soon as you are sure its not going to a priest in your group?</SPAN> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by Docimodo on <span class=date_text>09-19-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:05 AM</span>

[Aaeamyen]

<DIV>If you took that as a slam then your bad. But i didn't mean it as a slam on you. I just think its insane to use SS on AE mobs. Lets take Taranix or Chel'Drak... Your telling me your gonna use SS on those mobs?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In groups i frequently use SS on the group, np np. Casting a intercept on a priest or a Sentry on group while pulling Vulucidade, np at all. But Vul, doesn't really cast AE's now does he.... </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What about the Crab mob in VoS, SS on him? With Defiler buffs up i could see it working.. I could also see it backfireing. And we really haven't had a problem with people in the group dying to the mob. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What about the Eye's in DT, would you SS on them? I find them hitting AE for 3 - 4k sometimes more x6 that wouldn't be pretty..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>again, i wasn't slamming you, i just find it pretty insane to case SS on most AE mobs (on raids), Groups are another matter.</DIV>

[Docimodo]

<DIV>Unless your healers are slacking at cures and or people arent where they are supposed to be tarinax will not be hitting anything but the mt for the majority of a fight. I was also under the assumption that most mobs have a timer on aes and thus you can fire off stonesphere in the space between them esp if someone is increasing recasts of mob.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And anyway im still refering to body pulls. i dont recall the last time i body pulled tarinax or any other named raid boss for that matter.</DIV>

[Aaeamyen]

<DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Docimodo wrote:<BR> <DIV>Unless your healers are slacking at cures and or people arent where they are supposed to be tarinax will not be hitting anything but the mt for the majority of a fight.</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff3366>So why place SS up? Makes no sense..</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> I was also under the assumption that most mobs have a timer on aes and thus you can fire off stonesphere in the space between them esp if someone is increasing recasts of mob.</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff3366>Again so why place SS up? If no one else is getting hit but the MT and everyone has the timers down, shaman gets the wards up on time for it.. Why cast SS? If theres a legit reason i'm not above constructive critisizm, and i'd like to know it.</FONT></DIV> <DIV>And anyway im still refering to body pulls. i dont recall the last time i body pulled tarinax or any other named raid boss for that matter.</DIV> <P><FONT color=#ff3366>So are you saying you don't cast SS on Tarinax and Chel'Drak or Vul? I mean your the one who brought up Vulicidade in your post, i just went with him as he's the boss of Lyceum's zone. I am honestly not slamming you, and i know that a few LU's ago they fixed our intercept lines, however i still have seen some problems with casting SS on Raid AE mobs, those i named in my previous post. (Hence the whole, "Using SS on Raid AE mobs is insane" remark >&lt<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff3366>But i have yet to notice that the Eyes in DT have set timers on their AE's. Maybe it was the Brigand extending the reuse timer but i dont think so. And i've body pulled them before and have never once thought of trying to think i'm so totally badass that i could use SS and take everyone in the groups damage even if i am at 16k+hp. thats just insane.. and a sure way to waste your armor. If i'm missing something please explain..</FONT></P> <P><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Again, i'm editing this post to try and express i am NOT in anyway trying to slam you or say your wrong or put you down in any manner. I simply would like to know if there is a legit reason to cast SS on a raid mob that AE's, especially if as our healers are, very much so able to group heal, and cure..</DIV> <DIV>Now i can understand a secondary guardian in a regular group using it to help save the DPS in the raid, plus he 's not getting hit with incoming melee dmg. But as a MT you want to lessen the dmg your taking.. not increase it... If i'm way off base please explain.<BR></DIV></DIV><p>Message Edited by Aaeamyen on <span class=date_text>09-19-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:05 AM</span>

[TanRaistlyn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Docimodo wrote:<BR> <DIV>Unless your healers are slacking at cures and or people arent where they are supposed to be tarinax will not be hitting anything but the mt for the majority of a fight. I was also under the assumption that most mobs have a timer on aes and thus you can fire off stonesphere in the space between them esp if someone is increasing recasts of mob.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And anyway im still refering to body pulls. i dont recall the last time i body pulled tarinax or any other named raid boss for that matter.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Wow so somehow you manage to make Tarinax NOT memwipe, and NOT pop adds (that might go to the healers for a second or two)?</P> <P>Altho I agree SS can be used in some fights - in most situations its really not necessary - useful in maybe 5-10percent of the fights out there. To answer the above poster your SS skill procs a 25percent chance to cast stoneskin on target.  So if the mob is hitting JUST YOU, you can eliminate 25percent of the mobs attacks on you.</P><p>Message Edited by TanRaistlyn on <span class=date_text>09-19-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:06 PM</span>

[Docimodo]

<DIV>Ok heres the best example which works like a charm:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You can reduce overall dmg taken by using stonesphere not to mention the 25% stoneskin proc. Read the description of it. Try placing an offtank in your mt group and have him pulling the two non memwiping mobs of the doom trio while you have buffed completely every ae buff and hold the ravager with our great rescue abilities. even though there is atleast one ae and you are taking hits from your offtank it is super easy to keep the group alive as you are reducing dmg taken and splitting it on to to hp pools.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>same goes for the x2crab instance with the offtank taking the adds away from the boss yet you are intercepting the crazy memwipe aggro dmg. its ae is timer based and so can plan it.</DIV>

[TanRaistlyn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Docimodo wrote:<BR> <DIV>Ok heres the best example which works like a charm:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You can reduce overall dmg taken by using stonesphere not to mention the 25% stoneskin proc. Read the description of it. Try placing an offtank in your mt group and have him pulling the two non memwiping mobs of the doom trio while you have buffed completely every ae buff and hold the ravager with our great rescue abilities. even though there is atleast one ae and you are taking hits from your offtank it is super easy to keep the group alive as you are reducing dmg taken and splitting it on to to hp pools.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>same goes for the x2crab instance with the offtank taking the adds away from the boss yet you are intercepting the crazy memwipe aggro dmg. its ae is timer based and so can plan it.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>The problem is while those might be good examples of uses for SS - those two encounters are so insanely trivial there is really no need.  Its very easy to tank both the Trio solo without SS, and Crab is funny in the way the more your raid sucks the easier that encounter. Even in that encounter theres no reason you should need a OT - even a crafted geared tank can easily tank the crab and its adds.</P> <P>SS has very limited needs/uses - not saying they dont exhist, just that they are few and far between.<BR></P>

[Docimodo]

<DIV>i never said it was ultimate <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> just saying that it makes those encounters so easy even with an x2 and [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]e gear</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Wabit]

<P>SS has very limited uses, if someone is useing it all the time they are playing with fire...  and the only place i can think of body pulling consective mobs is in labs, the endbringer/ruiner combo (i pull all 4 of those mobs before SS/SW could even be back up)...  everything else is body pull once, have sentry watch up (its all you need) the go about normal pulling the rest...  </P> <P>why OT the doom trio, its easily solo tanked...  only mobs i can think of where you need a dedicated OT, is goo drake, tarinax (not counting contested)...  </P>

[Docimodo]

<P>Heh thats true Wabit... I guess content is so rediculously easy that i should just brute force it instead of making elaborate strategies to make it go super easy with zero chance of the death of even one raid member. </P> <P>What you are saying in my eyes is like saying "Why joust the ae when you can just eat it with maybe the odd raidmember death".  I should just give up and fall in line I guess <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P> </P> <P>But yes we all agree that ss is of limited use but not zero which was my point to begin with.</P><p>Message Edited by Docimodo on <span class=date_text>09-19-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:07 PM</span>

[TanRaistlyn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Wabit wrote:<BR> <P>SS has very limited uses, if someone is useing it all the time they are playing with fire...  and the only place i can think of body pulling consective mobs is in labs, the endbringer/ruiner combo (i pull all 4 of those mobs before SS/SW could even be back up)...  everything else is body pull once, have sentry watch up (its all you need) the go about normal pulling the rest...  </P> <P>why OT the doom trio, its easily solo tanked...  only mobs i can think of where you need a dedicated OT, is goo drake, tarinax (not counting contested)...  </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Wabit besa smarts!!! Wabit come join me on Befallen!!!<BR>

[zormik]

<DIV>First of all i'm a zerk so my experience is a little bit different.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But i think your dps is pretty low for a MT.  On single targets (normal epics) i hardly go under 1K and i can go up to 1.3K without using the skills that define me as a zerk (open wounds, destruction).  In some situations i can drop under 1K but that's very rare and that's due to a bad pull, special epics that ask for a different approach or something like that.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I MT for a casual raiding guild (we raid T7 3 times a week) and our raiddps varies a lot from 8K up to 14K. On big encounters my job is a bit easier then yours ofcourse so i don't really have to cycle trough mobs (open wounds, destruction, insolent gibe makes them pretty much glue on me). I also sometimes tank without any hatetransfer/buffs in the MT group. A MT can pull this off if his dps is very nice. So if you have problems with 80% hatetransfer on you then you really must have some kind of problem.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What weapon do you use (damagerating)?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Do you cycle trough mobs and when do you start/stop cycling?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Do you get time to build your aggro?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What classes do you use in the MT group?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What is your haste/dps buffed up in a raid?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Do you use a troub for your main dps-ers?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Do you use the Harmonious link from a coercer on your big dps-ers (you also can use it on fighters now)?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Do you have an illusionist in the dps groups?</DIV><p>Message Edited by zormik on <span class=date_text>09-20-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:03 PM</span>

[Aaeamyen]

<P>Thanks for replying to my above post and not taking offense to any of it. It wasn't meant to be a slam. </P> <P>Although i still don't see any real use for SS other than in a group environment setting. Sentry watch has worked just fine or a quick intercept on a single healer when he gets agro. Split tanking the Doom trio, while we do it i see no need at all to take hits from the offtank, he's completly capable of tanking all three of them at once, we simply just follow routine and split them. </P> <P>To the OP, Cycle targets FTW. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[Aandien]

<DIV>I use stonesphere for the stoneskin proc on myself.  I don't use it to intercept damage, because no one in my group takes damage other than me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It makes my healers have to heal me less during that time, which means they can spend more time doing dps or looking at [Removed for Content] or whatever, and the only cost it has is me clicking a button every so often.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Why wouldn't you want to use it?</DIV>

[Aaeamyen]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> AncientElster wrote:<BR> <DIV>I use stonesphere for the stoneskin proc on myself.  I don't use it to intercept damage, because no one in my group takes damage other than me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It makes my healers have to heal me less during that time, which means they can spend more time doing dps or looking at [Removed for Content] or whatever, and the only cost it has is me clicking a button every so often.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Why wouldn't you want to use it?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Well lets say your tanking one of The eye's in DT, the kind that cast a 4 - 6k AE on the bulk of the raid and even though healers are at max range alot of times they will still get hit. Now imagine you have SS up at the time and only 1 of the 6 people in the group proc stoneskin on you. You still end up taking 5 AE hits, at a low its probably around 10 - 13k i guess. now raid buffed in a single group without Bolster i am at 13.2khp that doesn't leave much leeway for the healers to heal me before the next melee dmg comes in. </P> <P>Besides our healers are good enough to Group heal themselves on AE nukes. And as i stated before if a mob is on a healer single intercept/sentry watch is much better than SS. <BR></P>

[Aandien]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Aaeamyen wrote:<BR> <BR> <P>Well lets say your tanking one of The eye's in DT, the kind that cast a 4 - 6k AE on the bulk of the raid and even though healers are at max range alot of times they will still get hit. Now imagine you have SS up at the time and only 1 of the 6 people in the group proc stoneskin on you. You still end up taking 5 AE hits, at a low its probably around 10 - 13k i guess. now raid buffed in a single group without Bolster i am at 13.2khp that doesn't leave much leeway for the healers to heal me before the next melee dmg comes in. </P> <P>Besides our healers are good enough to Group heal themselves on AE nukes. And as i stated before if a mob is on a healer single intercept/sentry watch is much better than SS. <BR></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Your implying your using it to try to protect someone else in your group.  I don't use it that way.  I use it to protect myself.  If your concerned that someone in your group is going to take the AE -- then either don't use it, or have ACT up and running with properly configured timers and use it in between the AE.</P> <P>Just because your not taking the initiative to either keep track of the AE's or your group is not being proactive about avoiding damage, doesn't mean the skill isn't useful in a raid scenario.<BR></P><p>Message Edited by AncientElster on <span class=date_text>09-21-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:02 PM</span>

[Aaeamyen]

/sigh

[Judist]

<P>In regards to the topic (aggro control), try to place a ranger in each DPS group and <U>make</U> them use hawk when its up.</P> <P>M1 hawk siphons (were guessing as rangers, devs wont say) 34% hate from every <U>non-fighter</U> in their group. Duration is 30s, recast 1m30s. This may be just what your needing to prevent your High DPSers from peeling adds.</P> <P>Also rangers get <U>Confounding Arrow</U>, when used on a mob it casts Blamed on the mobs target, giving him 30% more hate gain for 10 seconds. This CA has a 30s recast and I use it everytime its up. With multiple rangers "blaming" the MT + the MT's other hate buffs, its extermely hard to peel these mobs off.</P><p>Message Edited by BeatinGuts on <span class=date_text>09-22-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:57 AM</span>

[Snorm]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> BeatinGuts wrote:<BR> <P>In regards to the topic (aggro control), try to place a ranger in each DPS group and <U>make</U> them use hawk when its up.</P> <P>M1 hawk siphons (were guessing as rangers, devs wont say) 34% hate from every <U>non-fighter</U> in their group. Duration is 30s, recast 1m30s. This may be just what your needing to prevent your High DPSers from peeling adds.</P> <P>Also rangers get <U>Confounding Arrow</U>, when used on a mob it casts Blamed on the mobs target, giving him 30% more hate gain for 10 seconds. This CA has a 30s recast and I use it everytime its up. With multiple rangers "blaming" the MT + the MT's other hate buffs, its extermely hard to peel these mobs off.</P> <P>Message Edited by BeatinGuts on <SPAN class=date_text>09-22-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>06:57 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Holy raid utility, Batman. Sounds like it should, as it's more of a buff, but does Confounding Arrow stack with other hate transfers and buffs (IE assassin trans, and coercer hate buff)?<BR>

[Judist]

<P>Aye, it stacks with everything cept more confounding arrows. More rangers (1 per DPS grp) means your more likey to have a blamed buff up during the fight.</P><p>Message Edited by BeatinGuts on <span class=date_text>09-22-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:53 AM</span>

[Wabit]

swashies have blamed also...  i used to hate it when it showed up as an cureable elemental effect on me...

[Docimodo]

<DIV>Stone Sphere + Bladedance...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Nuff said</DIV>

[TheBu]

<DIV>Sounds like you have alot of good info here..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I did not see anyone say anything about the ho. I would check with the mt group and see if the mt was always on a roll. i would think that along with cycling would help. Also if the the mob ur on is about ot die say the taunt for the next mob.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I just think u might need a ho to make ur day</DIV>

[Kreagan De'Unerro]

<P>Hello there all, this is how I usually start my fights off for T7 encounters, raid or otherwise.</P> <P>In raid situation main thing is before you pull you should make sure all reactives/regens and wards are off you(any non-self benficial short term buff) are off you.</P> <P>I proceed up to the mob and use CA Command,ToS, followed by Confront(which places me in combat, 1st hate list of mob-then wards/reactives can be cast on you). As I settle in position before I call for DPS, I use this macroe(MT best friend):</P> <P>    /usea Fighting Chance</P> <P>   /usea Overpower</P> <P>   /usea  Protection</P> <P>this MT only HO increses your Threat Position exponentially. I then call for DPS and then finish off with Vindictive Strike,Goading Assualt, etc...I use this HO in between group HOs as often as possible, whenever FC is available.</P> <P>If adds come and or you lose agro from stray(because Mage Fusion or something gets out of hand) have members run back to you, then try this: Reinforcement, Besiege. Stone Sphere...another great AE Threat Position increaser, normally grabs all MOBs in vicinity.</P> <P>The Macro I made when I was in T2 and leveling with my friend who is Brigand. He always grabbed agro early and often. then after getting this macro going I have been able to hold it from him more efficiently, unless I become lazy, then I would let him die.</P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by Kreagan De'Unerro on <span class=date_text>10-22-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:15 AM</span>