Guard/Zerk/SK solo ability and DPS differences

[danmurph3]

Hey everyone,I'm returning to the game after a long absence and have a couple questions.  I am looking for a plate tank to be optimized for DPS.  This is just for fun since my real toon is a Brigand i am leveling up, but for off days i want to mess around a bit in a full suit of heavy armor.I have a 66 Guardian on the shelf right now but from what i remember way back when, the solo ability and dps was atrocious.  I was thinking about betraying to FP and switching to Zerker, (then betraying back to Qeynos and staying Zerker).  What i'm wondering is how big of a difference would i see in solo ability and DPS from the Zerker?  I remember Zerkers used to dominate Guards in DPS but it seems a lot has changed.  I also remember SKs (who i always liked) were at the bottom of the barrel of tanks but now i'm looking at their forums and seeing some positive stuff, and seeing that they out dps and out solo Zerkers/Guardians.Just want to get a feel for how much happier i'd be with a Zerk or SK over my Guard and if its worth it or not.  Or are Guards not so bad off anymore?Any help would be greatly appreciated, cheers!<div></div>

[Wabit]

if you wanna solo go SK...  zerkers are more dps than guards...  but guards are alot better than they used to be if you go with a buckler spec...

[BetaMaster]

<DIV>zerkers will do more dmg single target than a guardian... we can both do buckler line and a zerker w/ buckler line can go pretty nutz... and a zerker on pure aoe fights can own most classes in the game... but that's once every few minutes.</DIV><p>Message Edited by BetaMaster on <span class=date_text>09-07-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:23 PM</span>

[Turb]

No need to go to Freeport, you can betray from Qeynos guard to Qeynos zerker.Zerkers seem to be fotm, so enjoy the crowd <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Kule]

If you want to solo, keep that guard shelved.I played a Zerker to 70, and he could solo pretty [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] well, but crusaders usually solo better.<div></div>

[Raahl]

I have to agree.  Zerkers are the DPS plate wearers.   Though for solo purposes, I believe Paladins and SK's are decent.

[Domiuk]

<DIV>As  has been said your guardian has betrayal as an option so you could become a 66 zerker almost immediately.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>However up until very recently i specced completely dps , solo at 26% dps, 40% haste and 76% double attack and frankly my dps was well up there, (zerkers get the same aa lines so they can do this and better)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The problem is we still cant really take named ^^^ mobs , I can kill even some even lvl heroic ^^^ but named invariably have too many debuffs etc for me to be able to take down and i am not convinced this would be much easier with a zerker.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>To be fair i have very good dps equipment and have all but my t6 dmg spells at master but its worth knowing that i compete very well for dps with most classes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you are gonna start again from scratch there are much better soloing choices than the 3 you have named though <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[danmurph3]

Well as cool as the SK would be, i don't know if i have it in me (or the time) to grind up another toon all the way up to T7, since i also have a mid 40s Brigand i've been working on getting up.  Sounds like the Zerker dps is noticeable over the Guard, and i'd definately still want to stay in Qeynos.  (Do i have to betray all the way to FP or can i just be an exile and go back to Q after that?)I know i will lose all my masters and adept 3s, but i never finished the hat quest even though i started it (got past nest steps), i heard if you complete the hat quest and betray you cant get the hat, but what if your midway through it?And sorry to squeeze so much info from you guys ; )  but the AA line mindset seems very different from when i left (when KoS came out)  Back then no one had STA line.  Now from what i hear the STA line offers the most DPS?Since this is just a fun toon i want to do as much damage as possible (i'm retired from raid tanking and dont want to go back lol) whats the best AA setup i can get for damage and solo ability?  I was originally thinking a 2H and the STR line would give a big boost.  But the buckler line really gives more DPS?  I don't know how much fun i'd have trying to dish out bad [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] damage using a tiny buckler.  I've got around 10-11 AA points right now, and i think they are all in the WIS line.  Any suggestions on AAs?Thanks so much everyone for the info already, Guard boards were always my favorite : )<div></div>

[aislynn00]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> <P>danmurph321 wrote:<BR><BR>Sounds like the Zerker dps is noticeable over the Guard, and i'd definately still want to stay in Qeynos.  (Do i have to betray all the way to FP or can i just be an exile and go back to Q after that?)<BR></P> <P><FONT color=#ff9900>You can go right back to Qeynos without having to go to Freeport first.</FONT></P> <P><BR>I know i will lose all my masters and adept 3s, but i never finished the hat quest even though i started it (got past nest steps), i heard if you complete the hat quest and betray you cant get the hat, but what if your midway through it?<BR></P> <P><FONT color=#ff9900>As far as I know, the type of hat you get depends on your subclass when you finish the quest, not which subclass you were when you started it.</FONT></P> <P><BR>And sorry to squeeze so much info from you guys ; )  but the AA line mindset seems very different from when i left (when KoS came out)  Back then no one had STA line.  Now from what i hear the STA line offers the most DPS?</P> <P><FONT color=#ff9900>A few of us were touting the superiority of the Stamina line even back then, but most people were claiming they couldn't possibly deal with a "massive" 5% - 10% avoidance loss.  </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff9900>Considering most raiding guild guardians are Sta/Wis spec'ed these days, I think it is safe to say, they were proven wrong.  Personally, I really can't tell any difference in terms of incoming DPS, probably because of the way avoidance scales vs epic(x4) yellow con.</FONT><BR><BR>Since this is just a fun toon i want to do as much damage as possible (i'm retired from raid tanking and dont want to go back lol) whats the best AA setup i can get for damage and solo ability?  I was originally thinking a 2H and the STR line would give a big boost.  But the buckler line really gives more DPS?  I don't know how much fun i'd have trying to dish out bad [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] damage using a tiny buckler. <BR><BR><FONT color=#ff9900>To maximize your solo DPS, definitely get both the double attack bonus in the Stamina line.  Apart from that, you have several options, depending on the main weapon available to you.  If you prefer a good hammer or mace, I would pick:</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff9900>Str 4/4/8, Sta 4/4/8, Wis 4/6/8</FONT></P> <DIV><FONT color=#ff9900></FONT></DIV> <P><FONT color=#ff9900>If you have a good sword, I would go for a nice bit of extra haste with this setup:</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff9900>Str 4/4/5, Sta 4/4/8, Wis 4/4/8, Int 4/1<BR><BR>If you are leaning towards spears (I wouldn't know why) or axes, this is the best setup for you:</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff9900>Str 4/4/8, Sta 4/6/8, Wis 4/4/8</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff9900>Note, of course, that all of the above ignores your defense in favor of quicker kills.  If you want to tank tougher mobs, you should always invest 8 points in the mitigation bonus ability of the Wisdom line and try to get as many points as possible in the avoidance/block/riposte ability of the Stamina line.</FONT></P> <P></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[danmurph3]

I already have the WIS line with the debuff ability against the targets physical mitigation and i found that the only way i could ever get a kill.  Best mace/hammer i have right now is Rahotep.  I thought about the STR (Axe) line, would be a bit more fun wielding an Axe, but i gave away my Brakzars (sp?) Cleaver to a guildy for nothing when i left a while ago, its 15pp on broker now : (At what point would you say using a buckler gives you more dps than using a 2H weapon, as in how many points do i need to put into buckler line before making the switch.  Also in your suggestions you didnt recommend maxing out the 2nd bucker ability to 8, i thought that was part of the bulk of the damage, or is it just the fact that you can proc double attack with a 1H so often?Thanks for the help!<div></div>

[Hirf]

I've been multipling the rating of my one-hander by 1.76 as a general rule of thumb. How accurate that is I'm not really sure, but it's easy enough to do.80.9 * 1.76 = 142.384

[Domiuk]

<DIV>"At what point would you say using a buckler gives you more dps than using a 2H weapon, as in how many points do i need to put into buckler line before making the switch.  Also in your suggestions you didnt recommend maxing out the 2nd bucker ability to 8, i thought that was part of the bulk of the damage, or is it just the fact that you can proc double attack with a 1H so often?"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Its all about the double attack.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>76% da on my 80dps rated weapon is the equivalent of a 140 dps rated 2 hander in rough terms, and there are 90 dr rated 1 handers and thats like a 165 rated 2 hander <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Buckler reversal is good but its dps for me isnt worth putting more than the 4 points in.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So basically you want at least 16 points in the stamina line, that 16 points I do not think you can spend better.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In all aa talk its worth noting that the best weapon you have makes a differance, eg if you can get any fabled 1 hander your probably better going for the matching aa line on that weapon.</DIV>

[danmurph3]

Well i betrayed to haven and came right back to Qeynos and am now a Berserker ; )Guardian was a great ride for me pre-DoF but haven't liked them since.  Having a ton of fun as Zerk though especially with the crazy AE attacks, i had no idea they had so many lol.  Already got my buckler and a nice 1H and respecced down STA.  Thanks for advice guys!  Cheers!<div></div>

[zormik]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Domiuk wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>However up until very recently i specced completely dps , solo at 26% dps, 40% haste and 76% double attack and frankly my dps was well up there, (zerkers get the same aa lines so they can do this and better)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The problem is we still cant really take named ^^^ mobs , I can kill even some even lvl heroic ^^^ but named invariably have too many debuffs etc for me to be able to take down and i am not convinced this would be much easier with a zerker.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Well,</P> <P>soloing ^^^ is not hard, it's just a question of equipment and masters.<BR>I'm erm, let's say pretty well specced and i solo those ^^^ lvl70 flying guillotines in poa with keeping more then half of my hp...</P> <P>A well specced zerk can solo pretty nicely.  It's not a brawler but he can stand his ground...</P> <P>The biggest difference in dps between guard and zerk is ofcourse the aoe but not only that.  i buff (groupbuff) for 28% in haste and dps and 122 str.  This is a big difference espescially with the staminaline.  On top of that a zerk has a huge burstdps potential which makes it possible to even solo those hard ^^^ every 3 minutes...</P>