What's Best AA set up

[Kuru]

<DIV>Been  thinking alot and looking at the various posts and alot have differant choices of what is the best AA's line to use. I went strength initially as i grinded up the levels but now i am  level 63 im looking into  /respec as the KoS stuff  is where i need to be thinking more.Most  of my equip is legendary with odd piece of fabled.All combat skills are Adept 3 -  Master 1 or 2. I mainly group up and hold aggro pretty well as it is but as the AA's slowly go up i was wondering which is the better AA way to go now. As it stands i am 4/4/4/3 in Str AA. Any suggestions in which way to go and the reason for why i should be going  down this path would be great. Thanks in advance.:smileyhappy:</DIV>

[Wabit]

<P>i always recomend wis line 4/4/4/8 first...  its perminant mita...  after that none of our AA lines are really weak...  </P> <P>the sta line is alot of fun, specially for grouping (you just look like you're carrying a purse, it boosts dps alot and dps = hate</P> <P>str is crits and the passive hate buff...  crits = more big numbers...</P> <P>int is haste...  i think i had 70something % self haste with the DT reward braclet...  add in an imbued agi ring and you're pushing teh haste cap solo...  also parry in the 4th lvl is decent...</P> <P>agi is the more of an AE line, you get a chance to frontal with your auto attack, and gives you a second PBAE (if you have a spear)...  the def in te 4th block is a waist of points imo, you can selfcap def pretty easy...</P> <P>and none of the 5th rank AAs are really worth getting, the agi line looks nice but useing it you've basicly stuned yourself for 12 secs (and it seems like an eternitry while you're tanking)...</P>

[Huffdady]

I choose the wisdon/sta line.  You get the best of both worlds.You get the perminant boost in Mit for tanking and you get 76% double attack which supercedes the whole 10% hate increase.  On top of it all, you get to wear a buckler..............  Actually that part is pretty [Removed for Content].   You only loose 3% avoidance but you hit like a zerker, I have never seen so many orange numbers in my life.I made the switch from Str/Wis to Sta/Wis and I will NEVER go back, it is night and day.RubbermadeLvL 70 GuardianFallen on Befallen Server<div></div>

[TanRaistlyn]

<P>Personally I made the switch to pure agro control - as I can hit 6400+ mitigation on raids easily without the Wis line.</P> <P>Str 4/4/8/8 Sta 4/4/8/8 I lose 450mitigation and 3percent avoidance this way over my old setup - but its next to impossible for people to peel agro off me no matter what they do.  I just wish the second skill in the str line worked properly Id max that out instead of the third line.</P> <P>If your not geared up with DT plate yet - your prob better off with the passive mitiation bonus of the Wis line - but once your there its hella fun to be able to get in the top 10 while MTing on the parses!!!</P>

[BetaMaster]

<DIV>With mitigation at 6400 that means that you can get up to about 7200-7500 with your temporary buffs which is where you really want to be when tanking lvl 74/75 epic x4 because of the mitigation scale change for over lvl 70 mobs.  But you can't keep that mitigation the whole time, you still have 30 seconds that you'll be down at 6400 (prolly 65 or 70% mit to a lvl 75 mob) and if he starts beatn you down during that time It could be bad.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you aren't having any problems with tanking in that setup then all the power to you and have fun with the dps... that setup you are prolly gonna be doing 1000-1400dps per fight? something like that.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by BetaMaster on <span class=date_text>09-13-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:54 AM</span>

[TanRaistlyn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> BetaMaster wrote:<BR> <DIV>With mitigation at 6400 that means that you can get up to about 7200-7500 with your temporary buffs which is where you really want to be when tanking lvl 74/75 epic x4 because of the mitigation scale change for over lvl 70 mobs.  But you can't keep that mitigation the whole time, you still have 30 seconds that you'll be down at 6400 (prolly 65 or 70% mit to a lvl 75 mob) and if he starts beatn you down during that time It could be bad.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you aren't having any problems with tanking in that setup then all the power to you and have fun with the dps... that setup you are prolly gonna be doing 1000-1400dps per fight? something like that.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>~Abomidable - 70th Guardian of Mistmoore</DIV> <DIV>~Lords of the Triple Moons</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>6400 is mitigation maxed to yellow 74 level mobs - level 75 mobs Orange (while there are currently 3 I beleive?) take into a whole nother world of mitigation values, in which 7500 or 6400mitigation isnt going to make a world of difference.

[Wabit]

<DIV>must be nice to see DT drop plate...  well good plate, i've got the gloves and wrists, haven't seen the legs or helm...  WTB doomrage shoulders while we're at it <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>what BP do you use???</DIV>

[TanRaistlyn]

The BLBP atm just cuz of the 125HP and 125PP -

[BetaMaster]

<DIV>heh Wabit I'm right there with ya... I need some DT plate, I have 0 of the 4 pieces.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by BetaMaster on <span class=date_text>09-13-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:55 AM</span>

[DanielAtchison]

ok i might be a weird guardian but i went  STR 4/4/4/8 INT 4/4/4/8 AGI 5 STA 4 <div></div>

[Zodi]

<DIV>I am in the process of reworking my AA points but I woul dlike to knw the following.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Correct me if I am wrong, but with the presetn system there is an stat cap of MAXSTAT= 7*LVL.</DIV> <DIV>Question: Does that mean that the maximum stats what would get benefits from is 490.</DIV> <DIV>                </DIV> <DIV>Please us ean example:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>700STA = ? HPS</DIV> <DIV>490STA = ? HPS</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>thank you</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Noob-tank</DIV>

[BetaMaster]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> DanielAtchison wrote:<BR>ok i might be a weird guardian but i went  <BR>STR 4/4/4/8<BR>INT 4/4/4/8<BR>AGI 5<BR>STA 4<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I understand the str and int for aggro and parry, the agi I do as well... but not that many points in it and adding 4 points in sta seems odd to me but my sta is capped all the time anyway.  What do your stats look like with that build?  Is a raid group setup.

[BetaMaster]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zodian wrote:<BR> <DIV>I am in the process of reworking my AA points but I woul dlike to knw the following.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Correct me if I am wrong, but with the presetn system there is an stat cap of MAXSTAT= 7*LVL.</DIV> <DIV>Question: Does that mean that the maximum stats what would get benefits from is 490.</DIV> <DIV>                </DIV> <DIV>Please us ean example:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>700STA = ? HPS</DIV> <DIV>490STA = ? HPS</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>thank you</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Noob-tank</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I have read that it is 7*LVL + base stat (whatever your race started with)  but I'm not 100% sure of this because my ogre caps out at 510sta when the equation suggests it should cap at 515.</P> <P>When you get up to the high numbers, you can roughly calculate that each sta = 5hp and anything over the cap does nothing (that I can tell)</P>

[Snorm]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TanRaistlyn wrote:<BR> <BR>6400 is mitigation maxed to yellow 74 level mobs - level 75 mobs Orange (while there are currently 3 I beleive?) take into a whole nother world of mitigation values, in which 7500 or 6400mitigation isnt going to make a world of difference.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I don't want to derail this discussion, but I'm curious where that number comes from, as well as the change for level 75 (orange) mobs. Does anyone have hard data or a dev post to back that up, or is it just the general consenses at the moment?</P> <P>Snorm<BR></P>

[Domiuk]

<DIV>"DanielAtchison wrote:<BR>ok i might be a weird guardian but i went  <BR>STR 4/4/4/8<BR>INT 4/4/4/8<BR>AGI 5<BR>STA 4"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You do know you can respec ?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>lol sorry to each his own I guess.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That looks a wierd setup though <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[frisco4]

I have 4/4/4/8 in str, 4/4/1 in agi, and 4/4/4/8 in wis.<div></div>

[Wabit]

<DIV>out of sheer boredom with the same raids, i respeced 4/4/8 str, agi, sta...  last point into 4th lvl of sta...  works ok, and i'm useing my 30 sec buffs for the first time in forever to makeup for the loss of mita...</DIV>

[DanielAtchison]

my HP is 8500, mit is 4608, avoidance is 6.31%  .... i hardly ever get hit at all. <div></div>

[Original Cinadien]

<DIV>Strength 4/4/8/8</DIV> <DIV>Wis 4/4/8/8</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Leaves you one point to spend wherever you want</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There are 2 reasons to take this route:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Executioners Anger= More Hate (thats our job)</DIV> <DIV>Unshakeable= More Mitigation (duh)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The benefits of taking this route are also the added DPS from Seasoned Veteran, the resists you get from the 4 points spent in wisdom, increased crit chance from weapon expertise and added strength from executioners strength.</DIV>

[Bantel]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TanRaistlyn wrote:<BR> <P>Personally I made the switch to pure agro control - as I can hit 6400+ mitigation on raids easily without the Wis line.</P> <P>Str 4/4/8/8 Sta 4/4/8/8 I lose 450mitigation and 3percent avoidance this way over my old setup - but its next to impossible for people to peel agro off me no matter what they do.  I just wish the second skill in the str line worked properly Id max that out instead of the third line.</P> <P>If your not geared up with DT plate yet - your prob better off with the passive mitiation bonus of the Wis line - but once your there its hella fun to be able to get in the top 10 while MTing on the parses!!!</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>We are currently raiding HoF for a set of Relic.</P> <P><BR>I sit at 6095 mit raid buffed.</P> <P>I've gone 4,4,8,8 wis for the mit, and 4,4,8,8 int to max parry, as we seldom have a Dirge. I have to rely on Coercer hate buff and my own skillz to maintain aggro.</P> <P>Given that, what would be your suggestion for AA's, as we work our way up the raiding ladder to DT?</P> <P>I'm thinking I would be best served with 4,4,8,8 wis and 4,4,8,8 str</P>

[BetaMaster]

<DIV>Anyone who has played a tank will agree that in a raid setting there are two main things that one must focus on (after the pull is successful):</DIV> <DIV>1) Building hate to keep aggro off your damage classes as easily as possible so that they can do all out dps to bring down mobs faster</DIV> <DIV>2) Staying alive... This is not just the work of your healers but is also something that the tank must pay attention to at all times.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Two ways to build hate:</DIV> <DIV>Threat (Taunts)</DIV> <DIV>DPS (Damage CAs)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The way to hold aggro the most is by using a healthy combination of these two things.  However, there are some situations when using just one over the other is necessary to get the job done.  On mobs that HURT, I can't be doing a lot of damage on the mob due to riposte.  I must then rely on my pure taunts to keep aggro on me as well as any hate transfer that I have from my group.  In these cases the str line is a better choice because Executioner's Anger is the only achievement that will boost all hate done by your taunts.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There are other times when mobs are so easy and routine that I decide to ignore my taunts and go all out dps (I agree that in these instances I am branching away from my true job and leaching into the dps category).  Using my taunts in these times just take away from my chances to proc dmg if I have a dirge in my group with his temp proc buff up.  By just doing all out dps you can do your job at holding aggro very well with the added bonus of doing some more damage.  For this it is best to go for the stamina line because the use of a buckler will allow your damage to spike more than 10% and therefore giving you more aggro than executioner's anger would.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So from that aspect you can really make the choice for yourself which "Threat" standpoint to go from.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For staying alive there is no better achievement line than going down wisdom.  You are able to get an extra 300+ mit and the line also offers bonus dps to increase your hate gain as well.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Most high end warriors that I've seen have gone for a wis/int, wis/str, wis/sta combination.  There are some who go pure threat and do a str/sta or go for pure dps and do str/sta/agi.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For now I am happy with my Wisdom/Stamina combination.  I have been considering having some fun for a night and pulling the str448 agi448 sta458 setup for dps fun <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. </DIV>

[Sir_Halbarad]

WIS 4/4/8/8STA 4/5/8/8The mitigation from WIS is a no brainer. Useful in every situation where you tank a mob, whether it is solo, grp or raid.STA has many pro's (and some con's - even though Gaige is returning from his coffin to spill his hate again <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> )The Double Attack of the STA makes up for the lack of avoidance for using a buckler. Yes, on Raids you see yourself equipping a bigger shield for some nameds (until they are debuffed).A good T7 Buckler is hard to find (only 3 out there, 1 of them Raid drop - or on Broker)I played around with a few AA setups and I finally settled with this one. It gives alot of flexibility and helps you solo and grp. And raid if your guild knows what they are doing.<div></div>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sir_Halbarad wrote:<BR><BR>The Double Attack of the STA makes up for the lack of avoidance for using a buckler. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>That's probably an understatement... but I agree if you're a warrior and you didn't max the double attack AA you're probably not playing to your full potential, especially since you only lose 3 to 4% avoidance at most using a buckler over a tower shield.<BR>

[Docimodo]

<DIV>I found that the buckler line just made me lazy...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I can hold aggro without it and yes its more work as i cant just click taunt then auto attack... (well you get the picture). </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My dps sits at around 600-700 on the longer fights for your reference.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Dragoons reflexes has become more used than tower of stone recently. great on multimob encounters or when you are deep into a mob and hit the redline.... and if anyone says they lose aggro from 12 seconds of doing nothing once they are into a fight then you simply suck...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Think i mentioned before but im on agi 84448 and wis 5448  so changing agi to sta means a far greater loss of avoidance not to mention the fact that the bucklers out there completely suck [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] compared to towers.</DIV> <P><SPAN class=time_text>Did i mention bucklers suck [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] compared to towers looks wise also? <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></SPAN> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN>  <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by Docimodo on <span class=date_text>09-19-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:31 AM</span>

[Original Cinadien]

<DIV>I like factual information. Does anyone have log files they can post to support one side of this argument or the other?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have allready stated I went Wis/Str  4/4/8/8 in both</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have been profiling people around the world and it seems there is a clear divide between the top Guardians on each server. A vast majority of these top guild guardians inlcuding Five Rings on Unrest have chosen to use the Wis/Sta 4/4/8/8 line as a means to negate the need for the additional hate gain of executioners anger and keep their dps numbers on the high side. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I see the benefit at first glance of the solo/group benefit of this route but, is the loss of the stats from the Qeynos Guard really negated by the increased dps/hate gain in a raid setting? All I do is raid unless it's a neccesary quest or guildy needs help and our dps classes are all [Removed for Content] out so, there is really no need for me to dps, Im a meat shield. Other than making the parse, how does the buckler line really benefit the raid as a whole?</DIV><p>Message Edited by Original Cinadien on <span class=date_text>09-19-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:31 AM</span>

[TanRaistlyn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Original Cinadien wrote:<BR> <DIV>I like factual information. Does anyone have log files they can post to support one side of this argument or the other?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have allready stated I went Wis/Str  4/4/8/8 in both</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have been profiling people around the world and it seems there is a clear divide between the top Guardians on each server. A vast majority of these top guild guardians inlcuding Five Rings on Unrest have chosen to use the Wis/Sta 4/4/8/8 line as a means to negate the need for the additional hate gain of executioners anger and keep their dps numbers on the high side. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I see the benefit at first glance of the solo/group benefit of this route but, is the loss of the stats from the Qeynos Guard really negated by the increased dps/hate gain in a raid setting? All I do is raid unless it's a neccesary quest or guildy needs help and our dps classes are all [Removed for Content] out so, there is really no need for me to dps, Im a meat shield. Other than making the parse, how does the buckler line really benefit the raid as a whole?</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Original Cinadien on <SPAN class=date_text>09-19-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>11:31 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Well I find my information differently.  I am the guild leader of a raiding guild - and obviously one of the MTs there - I speak with lots and lots of other high end raiding guild's MTs as well.  All of us have moved over to the Sta line double attack.  The 3percent loss of avoidance is nothing when compared to a 300dps increase that line provides.  With str 4/4/8/8 Sta 4/4/8/8  I can hit top 5 on every parse (well above 1200dps, on single targets) and no one can peel agro off me no matter what they do.  My mitigation is close to 6500 with no temp buffs up (raid buffed) and so I dont need the wisdom line anymore.  More damage is more hate, and besides staying alive thats our sole purpose - but along that line anytime you can add huge amounts of dps to your raid - you take that oppurtunity, cuz dead mobs dont hit as much.</P> <P>We have zerkers in the guild that went the Agi line and Sta line and hit 2200+dps on multi mob encounters as well, sometimes beating out or fully mastered/fabled warlocks.  With the HoS buckler you still get +76 to all damage types (I think thats the right number) as opposed to 142 from the claymore sheild...a Difference of 60-70mitigation which I dont really need since Im over cap vs. 74s anyways.  The only thing I hate seeing is the loss of the 30Hps or so from the Guard Sheild (a small number, but I love my HPs)</P> <P>All in all - any guild MT thats heavy into raiding that doesnt go Sta line is crazy. :smileyhappy:</P>

[Docimodo]

<P>i cant see any reason to go down sta unless you lose aggro without it /shrug (No question about it I will switch to sta if i lose aggro on a boss witout memwipe). </P> <P>log file or no log file, there are clearly more defensive specs and especially so when you consider mobs that ripost and/or are rediculously hard to hit from the front.</P>

[TanRaistlyn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Docimodo wrote:<BR> <P>i cant see any reason to go down sta unless you lose aggro without it /shrug (No question about it I will switch to sta if i lose aggro on a boss witout memwipe). </P> <P>log file or no log file, there are clearly more defensive specs and especially so when you consider mobs that ripost and/or are rediculously hard to hit from the front.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Cuz any high end raiding guild MT will tell you the same thing - MORE DPS = GOOD  and the MTs using this build are the MTs that have beaten every encounter in game, MO, Princes, Cheldrak, Tari, Cruor, Matron etc. etc.</P> <P>Even if you have the same amount of hate generated why WOULDNT you want a 30percent increase in DPS.</P>

[Original Cinadien]

<DIV>As my sig suggests I am also a Guild Leader and MT, I have done the tells and much research on this matter. My post was one of a a rhetorical nature. I wanted an unbiased opinion from you guys to show someone else =). As soon as I get the HoS buckler (Iron Fang's might work til then) I am making the switch. Thanks for the info and feel free to send me a tell, I love to chat with other guards, I am Cinadien on the Unrest server.</DIV>

[Docimodo]

<P>maybe im crazy but as you say i havent beaten the top couple of bosses yet. but then again i started off my guard on pvp with kos. have to catch up some still. </P> <P> </P> <P>Who is to say that they didnt wipe a million times before that as their tank couldnt switch in a tower shield fast enough or didnt have tos up and had no ultra backup 12 sec parry option <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </P> <P> </P> <P>But im content to be crazy <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </P> <P> </P> <P>And just because the majority do it one way doesnt mean its the best way either.</P><p>Message Edited by Docimodo on <span class=date_text>09-19-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:30 PM</span>

[Original Cinadien]

<DIV>Doci, the hardest thing to do in life is to let go of your ego and accept that some people know things that you dont. Having said that, I think there has been very clear and concise arguments for both sides of the fence but, the difference is what you plan to do. Are you in an end-game raid guild (killing Chel'Drak/Matron/Tarninax/Princes or are you doign Late T6 and early T7 stuff? You will do just fine using any of these lines if the latter is the case. The jury is in on the line to choose if you plan to be the best. Accept it or fight it but, the ones who have the loot you want are giving you the advice on how to get it.</DIV>

[Docimodo]

<DIV>The raid guild required to take contested on a pvp server needs to be 5 times stronger than one on pve. We are extremely lucky to get 1 unmolested pull of a contested here. That being said our guild has done well to keep tos and tt contested locked down.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It is hilarious to get rushed by brigands and tanks dispatching and taunting you off the named. As to the other contested well you can imagine what even one raid geared guardian can do to a raid. Obliterate, staggering blow, belly smash (just to really [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] up their positioning) + a few taunts on their healers = death. And yes guardians can survive a full raids worth of dps to do that. Wish you guys were here to experience the rush of endgame pvp with raidloot. Its hilarious at times. and would really save you all having to log on to nab a contested before other guilds. simply have a few skilled players wipe them repeatedly till prime time for your guild!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyway as I said before I will most definitely switch to buckler if i lose aggro on a non memwipe mob or fail to retrieve aggro on a memwiper fast enough, maybe chel'drak and the matron will be the mobs to force that but as for the others i have not experienced a problem. hey maybe i will drop the wis line entirely and take sta using those points instead of taking the points from agility!! That way i have the advantages of both with only the loss of 300odd mit. would leave me above 5k solo still... what do you think? agi 84448 sta 4485?</DIV>

[Original Cinadien]

<DIV>Hmm, maybe the mods can give you pvp'ers your own Guardian Forums because youre right, it really is 2 different worlds. Too much drama on pvp servers for me. Correct me if I am worng but, is the average age on pvp servers similar to WoW, 12-20? I am >30 years old and do not have the patience to deal with some arrogant 13 year old spamming me with tells about how Uber he is and then attacking me while I am trying to do something.</DIV>

[TanRaistlyn]

The PVE world and the PVP world might as well be 2 different games.  The worlds are that much different.  I personally couldnt take the constant hacking and bugging while I tried out the server, and I know I couldnt tolerate the contested 12hr bashfest that occurs when they pop.  Doesnt sound the least bit ammusing to me in anyway shape or form.  But thats why they make different strokes for different folks.  That being said I cant beleive you personally wouldnt want 30percent more dps being that you play on a PvP server - seems like it would be extremely nice to have there.

[Docimodo]

<DIV>Forgive me for carrying this further offtopic.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't there equally a rediculous amount of drama on every server? Whether it be over guilds poaching players or who is the top raiding guild or who is using exploits to kill epics/farm masters etc its all the same if you ask me and usually very clear who is right and who is wrong. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As to the maturity of this PvP server (I'm on the euro one) well I have yet to put anyone on ignore. On my PvE server I had several immature players on ignore /shrug I think that WoW suits those players just fine pvp wise. Also like on every server there are guilds for any person young or old and saying that age alone determines maturity is just plain stupid if you ask me. I believe my server has a guild that requires you to be 30+ on this server, a silly requirement in my eyes but its not my guild /shrug. I know that my own guilds average age is well above 20 with even the younger ones being serious about the game etc. as on any server there are most likely guilds with average ages in the teens but who cares? I mean where do you draw the line on the age at which you become 'mature'? You can't. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As to getting beat on by the hypothetical arrogant 13 year old called 'Iamso L'Eat Sauce' whilst trying to do something well you aren't honestly saying that you can't best a 13 year old in this game? Seriously those 'guys' are so out of their league compared to the likes of you or any other experienced raider for that matter. You just detonate them the same way you detonate a heroic mob that they need a group to kill.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you are refering to the competing raid guilds from the opposing faction coming to lay the smack down on you whilst you are half way through a pull of hurricanus (the most contested contested on pvp) well thats what we signed up for. We can hold off two to three waves of an enemy raid force atm on this specific mob. If things go awry we evac and then have a big brawl. Its fun and in my view really livens up what would otherwise be a stupidly easy kill.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yes they are different worlds but was just giving you an idea of the difficulty factor in taking out contested mobs. Or rather an excuse as to why we havent defeated the mobs in question.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As to the sudden and rediculous suggestion of a pvp guardian forum well I fail to see how pvp effects raid tanking a pve mob unless under assualt from an enemy force in which case I would/should be protected from interference anyway and thus my AA spec should still be purely raid pve based and any previous debate is still valid in that sense as I still need to be the best meat shield for the raid mob. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In that light what do you think of the spec i suggested in my last post? I think it would be a good compromise with the option of using tower shield still with only the loss of mitgation (5k solo is enough for me do you think?) </DIV>

[TanRaistlyn]

<P>Personally "this is all just opinions after all" I dont see the value in the Agi line once your past the very basic raids.  I do think the 12second of parry is great when you and your guild are starting out raiding and your learning a new zone, or training recruits to raid properly - it can help a great deal with saving a wipe in these scenarios.  But once you get past those rudimentory phases I think switching to pure agro control is the way to go.  Once you and your guild have the raid zones down & your gear is now fully fabled, now its just a matter of killing the mobs as fast as you can - hence why I personally prefer the str 4/4/8/8 + sta 4/4/8/8 AA line.  As Ive stated before - personally my solo mitigation is 5500-5600 and my HPs are around 8900 with this AA build.  Raid buffed they are about 13k and 6.5k - now its all about keeping agro on me, while my wizards + assassins + brigands go ballz to the wall DPS.</P> <P>I personally like clearing Labs in 70minutes and DT in 2.5hrs!! :smileywink:</P> <P>But realistically you cant go wrong with any of your choices in the AA lines.  Each path has merit and warriors are lucky we get so many good AAs to choose from.</P>

[Wabit]

<DIV>for my next AA setup i'm gonna go with a total hate build i think...  str 4/4/8/8, sta 4/5/8, int 4/4...  10p a pop for swapping AAs but it could be fun <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>honestly the agi line is alot of useless points for a 12 sec parry/stun myself ability once you've got a good raid force going, an extra AE with a spear (i can think of one semi decent spear), the 24% (8 point) chance to frontal (cool AA), more def i don't need, just to get to the parry ability...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>str is a good line, like 100% chance to crit on your next attack with an axe (nice for our AE), 22% chance to crit (8 points), and the 10% hate gain (8 points), and some damage increase when below 50% HP (waist of 8 points if you're that low on HP all the time there is something wrong)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>sta is probably the best overall line...  a free counter attack every so often, 76% double attack (8 points), increased avoidance to get somewhat closer to the lose of a tower shield, and a semiheal with less power consumed (worthless on raids)...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>wis is good line, melee debuff thats useless on raids, 19% dps gain (8 points), 314 mita (8 points), and gets rid of stance penelties (kinda cool, but not worth 8 points imo)...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>int is the second best overall line i think (lotsa good swords around), haste (w/sword and 3 CAs that hit), haste, parry, lowers downtime...  i could keep like ~75% (been awhile since i had this line) maintained self haste...  if you're lacking a dirge this line makes up for that some...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>but there are no real bad lines for warriors, just from personal experiance with every AA cept the last in the str line is what i base my opinions off of...  i dunno how things work on PvP so i can't make any sugestions there...  and i don't consider anything that can be pickup raided a true contested, vrax, pant, spires, hurri almost fits in this catagory... </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>but if you're just starting to raid in like t7 legendary mostly then str/wis is the safest combo i've had...  once the gear is there and everything is easy sta/wis is the best combo imo, if the sta line gets nerfed then i'll go back to str/int unless mita becomes important again then str/wis...</DIV>

[Schube]

<DIV>Just thought I'd point out, that the guardian who lead his guild to WW 1st on matron doesn't use the Sta line......  Any player who knows the benefits and drawbacks of the AA line of their choosing, can perfrom just as well as any other setup.  Just my 2 cents <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sig Pending</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ugga</DIV><p>Message Edited by Schubegk on <span class=date_text>09-24-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:53 PM</span>

[Sir_Halbarad]

<div><blockquote><hr>Schubegk wrote:<div></div> <div>Just thought I'd point out, that the guardian who lead his guild to WW 1st on matron doesn't use the Sta line......  Any player who knows the benefits and drawbacks of the AA line of their choosing, can perfrom just as well as any other setup.  Just my 2 cents <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div>Sig Pending</div> <div> </div> <div>Ugga</div><p>Message Edited by Schubegk on <span class="date_text">09-24-2006</span> <span class="time_text">01:53 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Of course you can kill anything with any aa setup <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />But considering that a guard who scores a WW1 on one of the hardest raid mobs available has an awesome and well-trained raid force behind him - equipped in everything they ever need as well - AA won't matter much.AA paths matter to me. I am far from fully fabled but I can get my 6.5k mit with the right MT grp. When I use my sta line, my raid can do more damage. That means that this line atm is for us the best way to beat stuff we maybe couldnt beat otherwise.</div>

[Kule]

In a good raid set-up, you don't need STA line for single target aggro until you start hitting 15-16K+ raid DPS.<div></div>

[Sir_Halbarad]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kuleon wrote:<BR>In a good raid set-up, you don't need STA line for single target aggro until you start hitting 15-16K+ raid DPS.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Agreed, but if you don't have a "good" raid set-up all the time because you are a casual raiding guild - then every bit helps <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><p>Message Edited by Sir_Halbarad on <span class=date_text>09-26-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:58 AM</span>

[VainDragon2]

<P><IMG src="http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/7444/tobydpspo2.png"></P> <P>Avergaing 800 -1.1k dps with sta 4-5-8-8 wis 4-4-8-8. Here's damage breakdown as MT, all cas M1.</P>

[Plaz]

i am pritty happy with my Sta 4,5,8,8 Wis 4,4,8,8........but i still wish they would just do away with resists on are taunts flat out.

[Terron]

<blockquote><hr>Wabit wrote:<div></div>  <div>str is a good line, like 100% chance to crit on your next attack with an axe (nice for our AE), 22% chance to crit (8 points), and the 10% hate gain (8 points), and some damage increase when below 50% HP (waist of 8 points if you're that low on HP all the time there is something wrong)</div> <div> </div><hr></blockquote>I'm only level 57 with 11  APs, but I am going for that ability. So far I have Str 4/4/2. I like doing quests, which means soloing a lot. When soloing tough mobs going below 50% health is quite common, and that is when an extra edge would be most useful. I agree it would be close to useless when grouped. Has anyone tried it for soloing? <div></div>

[Sir_Halbarad]

<div><blockquote><hr>pjackson wrote:<blockquote><hr>Wabit wrote:<div></div>  <div>str is a good line, like 100% chance to crit on your next attack with an axe (nice for our AE), 22% chance to crit (8 points), and the 10% hate gain (8 points), and some damage increase when below 50% HP (waist of 8 points if you're that low on HP all the time there is something wrong)</div> <div> </div><hr></blockquote>I'm only level 57 with 11  APs, but I am going for that ability. So far I have Str 4/4/2. I like doing quests, which means soloing a lot. When soloing tough mobs going below 50% health is quite common, and that is when an extra edge would be most useful. I agree it would be close to useless when grouped. Has anyone tried it for soloing? <div></div><hr></blockquote>In my soloing experience (which is very limited) being able to kill the highest green heroic encounter available is the key.That means dps since you need to kill it fast and it means you need high mitigation since you fight heroics.STA Line and WIS Line offer both in my opinion.And you should only go below 50% if you get adds, fight a named or get a bad RNG streak.Solo Experience is about killing as many heroics in the shortest time possible (which means downtime as well).</div>

[Terron]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Sir_Halbarad wrote:<div>In my soloing experience (which is very limited) being able to kill the highest green heroic encounter available is the key.That means dps since you need to kill it fast and it means you need high mitigation since you fight heroics.STA Line and WIS Line offer both in my opinion.And you should only go below 50% if you get adds, fight a named or get a bad RNG streak.Solo Experience is about killing as many heroics in the shortest time possible (which means downtime as well).</div><hr></blockquote>Thanks for responding, but I do not play to get as much xp as possible in the shoirtest time possible. If I did I wouldn't be soloing with my guard <span>:smileyhappy:</span> I don't mind downtime, it gives me time to admire the scenary.My aim is to be able to finish quests at as low a level as possible, which often means fighting names and heroics at the limit of my abilities. Anyway I find close fights to be more interesting than one sided ones. So I do fairly often fight things that will take me below 50% health. I know the STA and WIS would both be helpful (as would AGI), but the final ability in the STR line looks like it will suit my style of play. I was just wondering how well it works in practice. <div></div><p>Message Edited by pjackson on <span class=date_text>09-29-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:45 AM</span>

[Original Cinadien]

<DIV>A friend contacted me today to make sure Str/Sta was the way to go before spending his AA's and I figured I would update this post with my findings.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have since my last post on this subject re-spec'd 4 times and have settled in to the Sta/Wis 4/4/8/8 with the extra point spent in STR</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I love it and the difference on raids is astronomical but, I encourage everyone to find their own path as I did, it really depends on what you are doing. Five Rings is a strong raiding guild and I can afford to use this path on raids and it's just plain fun to hit the dps chart on and off raids and switch in and out weapons to see how high it can go. I never lose aggro (unless I make a mistake).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My Advice:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When getting your AA's go Str/Sta</DIV> <DIV>After you hit 50AA, experiment</DIV> <DIV>If you are in an end-game raiding guild go Sta/Wis after you get one of the 3 bucklers currently worth using.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Again, Im sure someone will disagree but, I did my homework myself and with my guild.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>ACT FTW! </DIV> <P>Message Edited by Original Cinadien on <SPAN class=date_text>10-05-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>12:40 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Original Cinadien on <span class=date_text>10-05-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:41 PM</span>