Damage?

[DarkAzur]

I know that Guardians can take a hell of a beating, but can they do any damage? I want to be able to go through mobs pretty quickly, I don't really want each fight to take a really long time.<div></div>

[Tyrion]

<P>This is a point of contention with a lot Guardians I think. Supposedly, we sacrifice offence and utility for having better defense.</P> <P>In my opinion, I think it's a poor tradeoff as the game stands currently.</P> <P>Lets take a look at our Berserker brothers (I'm not looking to throw nerfs around, ect.). Their abilities are pretty much identical and the only real differences in the two classes are the Ancient Teachings that were introduced in DoF. The two most noticeable being Tower of Stone and Reinforcement, as opposed to Open Wounds and Insolent Gibe (I think. Sorry, not 100% on the Berserker equivalent). Tower of Stone and Reinforcement are probably the two best abilities in the entire game when it comes to tanking, even when not raiding. They can single handedly turn a fight gone ugly to one completely under control. Open Wounds on the other hand increases Berserker damage output by a substantial amount, and Insolent Gibe allows them to hold aggro very well when sh*t hits the fan.</P> <P>But the fact is...Berserkers do a hell of a lot more damage due to their personal berserk, group berserk, and combination of devastating AoE abilities. Guardians just don't have an equivalent to this in regards to defensive abilities. I think everyone can agree that plant finds little use now that the stun component doesn't work on epics anymore (not like it was ever supposed to), and our group defense buffs are marginal at best.</P> <P>As a solution, I'm not asking for hella damage. I love that Berserkers can go crazy every 3 minutes! But I think the fact that a Guardian has to utilize their AAs (stamina specifically) to do "average" amounts of damage shows poor design on SoE's part. AAs should never be such a huge determinant in a class' basic offensive and defensive capabilities.</P> <P>I propose this: Add some offensive ability to the Guardian Offensive Stance. Not a proc, or haste, or dps increase. Something unique, so that when the Guardian wishes to pump some damage, it won't be laughable. I wish I could say I had some ideas, but I don't. But the Guardian Offensive Stance (And SK stance even more so) needs work. Everyone knows procs and haste are some of the best abilities, thus, something a little weaker would be great since we already get strength.</P> <P>Anyways, didn't mean to digress this much, but just my thoughts on the subject. :smileytongue:</P><p>Message Edited by Tyrion on <span class=date_text>07-29-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:40 PM</span>

[Seth]

What areyou talking about? In non-raid gear, all treasured and legendary gear, I can out DPS casters in raid, even when NOT the MT. I do about 500-600DPS. I think that's pretty good woudln't ya say?<div></div>

[TanRaistlyn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sethir wrote:<BR>What areyou talking about? In non-raid gear, all treasured and legendary gear, I can out DPS casters in raid, even when NOT the MT. I do about 500-600DPS. I think that's pretty good woudln't ya say?<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>hahah what??</P> <P>This must be sarcasm...cuz no I wouldnt say - Id say 1600-1700 would be pretty good tho.  Which is were your casters should be,</P>

[Wabit]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TanRaistlyn wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sethir wrote:<BR>What areyou talking about? In non-raid gear, all treasured and legendary gear, I can out DPS casters in raid, even when NOT the MT. I do about 500-600DPS. I think that's pretty good woudln't ya say?<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>hahah what??</P> <P>This must be sarcasm...cuz no I wouldnt say - Id say 1600-1700 would be pretty good tho.  Which is were your casters should be,</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>or the casters are all dead every fight...  really gear doesn't matter if you aren't MT, just get your str to the cap and buff your int some...  or go buckler spec get an assassian/wizzy/conjy, an inquizy, a zerker, dirge, fury...  thats when a guard will have some dps...

[TanRaistlyn]

Oh dont get me wrong Ive had fun in Labs and done 1400+ dps as well with right grps and specs - and Ive even had my Templar do 1k+ with righ tgrps AAs - just his post was funny is all.

[Memmoch]

Give us a T7 ToS.  Can keep it so that it continues to eat tower shields but make it like 5 procs for 10%.  That'd put a smile on my face.  I've leveled a berserker up to lvl 60, raid tanked with him and had a blast with him.  When I switched to the PVP server though I leveled up a Guardian, because I was going to be raid tanking here as well and at the end of the night about the only thing guardians have going for them is their raid tanking ability.  Berserkers blow out on the offensive side alot more than the guardians do on the defensive.  T5 and below (lvl 50) let's face it, beserkers and guardians are identical to tanking.  It is only the lvl 52 and 58 ancient spells that really sets them apart.  The berserker gets far more in the form of abilites that boost their offensive  (that the guardian dosn't get) than the guardian gets defensive abilites (that the berserker dosn't get).  /Shrug that's what I've seen anyways. <div></div>

[Domiuk]

<DIV>"just get your str to the cap and buff your int some..."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>How much differance does a decent chunk of int make ?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For ordinary grouping i already drop over 1k mitigation in favour of higher DPS and im sure I can drop a bit more in favour of inteligence if theres a clear improvement.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>To the original poster frankly guardians damage is generally fairly poor and this only really changes with enough AA  points and with your CAs heavily upgraded. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>However at the top end of the scale , decent fabled weapon , mostly masters , AA specced for dps I am now never ashamed of a parser.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Wabit]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Domiuk wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>How much differance does a decent chunk of int make ?<BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>depends how many procs you have on you...  the more procs the harder they hit for...  if you're procing every 3 hits then int means alot...  if you have no procs int means nothing...</P> <P>really if you're filling a dps roll with no tanking involved  capping str, your + melee stats, crit chance, and int will ekk out the extra dps...  my theory is do what ever roll you're put in to the best you can...</P>

[Domiuk]

<P>well I guess a bit more experimenting is in order.</P> <P>I do not really have much in the way of damage procs and my dps proccing items already put at me near 100% dps at least about 50% of the time.</P> <P>My weapons proc is far from the best ( 7%  chance of 2-300) and with my current setup fires on average maybe once in 30s, a quick check has it firing 28 times in 800 swings. ( consider it doesnt fire on my 76% DA and sounds about right)</P> <P>In fact my weapon proc damage is surprisingly poor and is roughly 1% of my total damage, be surprised if upping int makes a huge differance to this.</P> <P>On the other side of that I have 3 +DPS proc items and they dont show on a parser but do make a significant differance in damage output, these proccing more would make an impact.</P> <P>Raid buffed however the number of procs could be fairly high but for me switching equipment from mitigation/resist while raid buffed in favour of any stat is a no/no let alone int. My gear isnt that good <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P>