Switching to STA AA (from STR)

[Sir_Halbarad]

<DIV>Hi all <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>While progressing on the Claymore line I got the Ironplate Shielding from Iron Fang and decided to try out the STA Line</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Before respeccing I was at STR 4/4/8/8 and WIS 4/4/6/8 (only 47 AA - i know I am slacking <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> )</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now I am at STA 4/4/8/8 and WIS 4/4/6/8 </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>End build would be STA 4/5/8/8 and WIS 4/4/88.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We are just starting to raid Labs and I got the Draconic Deflector in our first visit.</DIV> <DIV>I am the MT of our family type, casual raiding guild.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now my question is this...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I lost 10% Block Chance but gained 4% Basic Miss Chance. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My Avoidance went down the expectable 4,5%</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The problem now for me... Is it too early for me to switch from STR to STA line, i.e. do I need better equipment to take a better beating? Or do the 4.5% less avoidance won't make a huge difference vs. yellow/orange raid nameds? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I miss the riposte % in there btw... are they in the equation or not?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My stats with single self buffs:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Shield = Base Avoidance // Miss // Block // Parry + Mitigation%: Crush // Pierce // Slash</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Draconic Deflector = 54,3 // 28 // 21 // 19 + 67 // 62 // 62</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ironplate Shielding = 50,9 // 32 // 10 // 19 + 65 // 60 // 62</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Is this good enough to justify the switch to buckler or do I need to get beefier?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Any input welcome <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[MountainFl]

<DIV>Fear my mighty Hub Cap!!!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have experimented with the STA line and have gone 4/4/8, I also have gone with 4/4/4/8 STR., The rest of my 44 points are spread to base stats.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The 75% chance to proc a double auto attack combined with the 10% hate gain are the great tools for a long fight where power is depleted. I have no problem holding agro.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I do have my shields on a hot bar, and I do use Tower shields.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>80% of the time I use a buckler (Iron Plate) in an offensive stance. I feel that this is more than enough for most mobs.</DIV> <DIV>10% of the time I start out with a tower shield in offensive stance and switch to buckler about 1/3rd of the way into the fight, depending on how the fight goes I may switch back to the tower shield to use Tower of Stone and back to the buckler after ToS runs out.</DIV> <DIV>10% of the time I use a Tower exclusively and defensive stance, usually when I MT or MA in a raid, or in situations where I am in "way over my head".</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yes I think it looks silly with a Guardian wielding a buckler, but it works for me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There is no one best line to take in AA, it really depends on your play style.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Turb]

Think gladiator, not guardian <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Rorrak]

<P>Are your healers having trouble keeping you up with the buckler on?  If they are, what's your MT group setup?  </P> <P>- Rorrak</P>

[MountainFl]

<P>The healers have not had any problem keeping up with the heals when I use a buckler. It comes down to power useage / conservation. </P> <P>I have no set rules with respect to switching from a buckler to a tower and vise versa, I use the tool that best fits the situation.</P> <P> </P> <P>In my opinion, when you look at abilities, the Guardian is the closest to a pure fighter followed closely by the 'zerker. In other words a Guardian is a guy in armor with a shield and a weapon, a foot soldier.</P>

[Sir_Halbarad]

<P>Well, after our last visit to Labs, I am happily surprised with the buckler.</P> <P>I had no problems tanking the trash with it - the only noticeable difference was that I asked the raid to go all out on dps to find their aggro point on the trash mobs... I never lost aggro.</P> <P>Vakrizt was good as well. We had to stop then because we only had one shaman and her level was 62 as well <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>My normal MT grp setup is Guardian, Templar, Warden, Mystic/Defiler, Dirge, Resistance Buffer (depending on mob).</P>

[Rorrak]

<DIV>For that last slot, forget about the resistance buffing and look at Crusader, Coercer, Conjuror and Brawler, in that order (in my opinion, for a new raidforce).  The logic there is typically a new raidforce needs more defense first - the Crusader brings the most defensively to the table, giving you an avoidance buff (they need to be in defensive stance to max out their avoidance as much as possible), a mitigation buff and heals/wards of their own, plus a divine proc.  Overall I think defensively that's the best addition.  Better defense = killing more stuff, and if you're already not having aggro problems that's your largest benefit right now.  Coercer adds 50% hate gain, but if you're not having aggro issues...that's not really necessary.  They do add massive in combat power regen though, which is a big benefit to you and the 3 MT healers, basically you guys aren't running out of power, even on long fights if you're using shards/hearts/potions and have a dirge as well.  A coercer with the right AAs adds heal crits as well, which is of great benefit to your 3 MT healers.  Conjuror would be next on my list for their mitigation group buff and 25% damage proc.  I'd only use one if you didn't have a crusader though...and last I'd try out a brawler in defensive stance for their avoidance buff.  54% chance to use 80% avoidance isn't bad, plus you'll get +haste or +DPS which helps you generate more aggro.  The avoidance buff isn't as useful as it sounds, but it does definitely reduce incoming damage on you, and when you're just starting a zone that's big, but I'd look at Paladin, SK, Coercer and Conjuror first, I think they'll help you more.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- Rorrak</DIV><p>Message Edited by Rorrak on <span class=date_text>07-27-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:58 PM</span>

[Memmoch]

My preferred MT group setup (I am on the pvp server and evil based) is me(guardian), defiler, warden, inquistor, dirge, coecer.  Sometimes we do not have access to a inquistor so I pull in a SK to fill that spot.  With that group setup you stay almost full power and your [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] near unstoppable lol.  Question for you guys though, the inquistor I was grouping with told me that in his opinion he'd be better off in a melle group (in raids where the entire raid force would be taking dmg) because of his hp+dps buff.  I'd usually ignore him and keep him with me (his hp buffs are pretty big) but what do you guys think?  Inquistor or give up coecer/sk?  The SK's buffs should for sure not be counted out, their wards+mitigation buff is very helpful.  Thoughts?<div></div>

[Domiuk]

<DIV>Normally Inquistor would be better in a dps group BUT..... your pvp and dont have access to a templar and so losing the inq will be a substantial HP drop.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1st rule of raiding. (My opinion only of course)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1. keep the MT alive.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If your fighting stuff that you can kill easy enough and your not dieing I would let your dps have the inq <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Sir_Halbarad]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Rorrak wrote:<BR> <DIV>For that last slot, forget about the resistance buffing and look at Crusader, Coercer, Conjuror and Brawler, in that order (in my opinion, for a new raidforce).  The logic there is typically a new raidforce needs more defense first - the Crusader brings the most defensively to the table, giving you an avoidance buff (they need to be in defensive stance to max out their avoidance as much as possible), a mitigation buff and heals/wards of their own, plus a divine proc.  Overall I think defensively that's the best addition.  Better defense = killing more stuff, and if you're already not having aggro problems that's your largest benefit right now.  Coercer adds 50% hate gain, but if you're not having aggro issues...that's not really necessary.  They do add massive in combat power regen though, which is a big benefit to you and the 3 MT healers, basically you guys aren't running out of power, even on long fights if you're using shards/hearts/potions and have a dirge as well.  A coercer with the right AAs adds heal crits as well, which is of great benefit to your 3 MT healers.  Conjuror would be next on my list for their mitigation group buff and 25% damage proc.  I'd only use one if you didn't have a crusader though...and last I'd try out a brawler in defensive stance for their avoidance buff.  54% chance to use 80% avoidance isn't bad, plus you'll get +haste or +DPS which helps you generate more aggro.  The avoidance buff isn't as useful as it sounds, but it does definitely reduce incoming damage on you, and when you're just starting a zone that's big, but I'd look at Paladin, SK, Coercer and Conjuror first, I think they'll help you more.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- Rorrak</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Rorrak on <SPAN class=date_text>07-27-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>01:58 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Aye, we were playing around with conjuror and paladin on our last runs and it was pretty good <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>Thanks for the ideas and suggestions though Rorrak!</P>

[McBenzos]

IMO A MT raid group should never have three healers.  At max you should really only have to use 5 healers on a raid.  My prefered MT group is Guardian (myself), Templar, Defiler, SK/Pally, Dirge, and a Coercer.  Druid buffs really do nothing for a MT at all, Guardians shouldnt need the heat resist, and Berserkers shouldn't need the cold, the fact of the matter is that you should be wearing resist gear if they aren't and depend on the group to buff your stats, thats how I do it even in grind groups.  Unless I'm not tanking I never wear my acyrlia rings anymore, it's all Moonstone resist gear.  Though I'm not lvl 70 with a bunch of fabled [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] it still doesn't take away from the simple equation of - Mitigation + Resists + HP = an alive tank. <div></div>

[Wabit]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> McBenzos wrote:<BR>IMO A MT raid group should never have three healers.  At max you should really only have to use 5 healers on a raid.  My prefered MT group is Guardian (myself), Templar, Defiler, SK/Pally, Dirge, and a Coercer.  Druid buffs really do nothing for a MT at all, Guardians shouldnt need the heat resist, and Berserkers shouldn't need the cold, the fact of the matter is that you should be wearing resist gear if they aren't and depend on the group to buff your stats, thats how I do it even in grind groups.  Unless I'm not tanking I never wear my acyrlia rings anymore, it's all Moonstone resist gear.  Though I'm not lvl 70 with a bunch of fabled [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] it still doesn't take away from the simple equation of - Mitigation + Resists + HP = an alive tank.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>try chel'drak with 5 healers (it ain't happeneing unless you are insanely lucky)...  i hate having multi tanks in MT group, its a waisted spot...  would take a warden over a crusader any day...  heck i'd take a conjy over a crusader...  or get a better dirge to keep hero's armor and archane ageis up...  not to mention i can actully hit tarinax and cheldrak in def stance with warden buffs...</P> <P>for most stuff you really onle need 5-6 healers...  but some things require a couple more...</P>

[MasterMun]

<DIV>As far as AA's goes i use:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Str</STRONG>  4.4.4.8     Guys once your fighting the higher end mobs you can <STRONG>Never</STRONG> get enough aggro, if your not having a problem your groups arnt doing enough dps.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Agi</STRONG> 8     These are just the points left over, i can max out <STRONG>Str</STRONG> and <STRONG>Sta</STRONG> but have never been close with<STRONG> Agi</STRONG> and it all helps</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Wis</STRONG> 4.4.4.8     The mit is very important, once you start capping on mit you can start swopping pieces of equipment for better stats but still keeping this line.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As far as a MT group i use:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Guardian,Crusader,Defiler,Templar,Dirge/Coercer,Assassin ( Aimed at aggro control )</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>or</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Guardian,Crusader,Defiler,Templar,Dirge,Coercer ( Aimed at aggro control and power regen for big fights&nbsp<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Sir_Halbarad]

We havent fought orange mobs yet, so my experience is not complete.But from the yellow mobs we fought, I found the double attack from buckler line much more impressive aggro wise than the 10% Hate increase.If my math is correct, with the full double attack spec (76%) I turn my 1 hander (71.2 damage rating) into a two hander (125.3 damage rating - 71.2*1.76).And even better, I almost never miss a proc that I have on me. And since 1 damage = 1 hate our raid force really sees a difference. I asked our wizards and warlocks to go all out on trash mobs to check their new point of aggro - and I only lost it when the warlock critted twice in a row <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />I lose the mitigation from my fabled shield, true, but only crush and pierce since I have the Ironplate Shielding. And I lose roughly 4.5% (displayed) Avoidance.But when the mob is debuffed, that isnt really a problem.To me - it seems I take LESS damage per fight since I do more dps -> others can do more dps -> mob is dead quicker.But I think every spec is worth it IF you get the full mitigation from wis line <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[mikemcmodmi]

<DIV>We recently had our guardian switch from str to stamina line and there was a huge difference.  Stamina lets your tank hold hate a lot better then str does.   He switched to:  stam 8,4,8,8  wis 4,4,5,8.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>He pumps out around 800 dps now using pris 2 (crappy weapon) which is where the extra hate comes from.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For group setup:  Guard, Templar, Defiler, Coercer, Dirge and Conjuror ftw.  Conjuror over Crusader because Crusaders always run in the aoes soaking up healing meant for the tank.  Plus, being a crusader outside of the aoes as a shielder is boring so they complain if you make em stay out.  You lose out on more dps too.  Our T5 crusader said he'd rather quit then play a shielder lol.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We also pumped out 15k raid dps with 3 groups at one point last night which wouldn't have been possible with a tank down the str line.</DIV><p>Message Edited by mikemcmodmike on <span class=date_text>08-14-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:35 AM</span>