The little things.

[TuinalOfTheNexus]

<DIV><SPAN class=time_text>A few minor tricks I've picked up.</SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><SPAN class=time_text>U</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>sing a bow:</SPAN></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text>- Most players know how / when to use a bow to pull. What some don't appreciate, I think, is that since they upped the damage at level 70 it's effectively a 1k nuke on a 7 second timer.</SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text>- The sta line gives your bow double attack. So make that a 2k nuke on a 7 second timer.</SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text>- Because of the long delay on bows, they're likely to trigger procs when used (since proc chance is affected by weapon delay). Thus a bow shot is not only likely to trigger the effect on the bow, but also the effect on any items you're wearing that trigger on attack, e.g. planar orb of the warrior.</SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text>- Given they're such a big hit, matching some of the most powerful CAs on a short timer, the question is how to use a ranged attack more often. I've learnt with practice you can shield bash, jump back and fire an arrow, then charge back in without the mob having chance to move. This is particularly useful when soloing.</SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text>- When a mob adds be aware a bow shot can often pull it off a group member, and save you having to barrel across the room into taunt range.</SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text><STRONG>Targetting group encounters</STRONG></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text>- When you're dealing with 2+ mobs in an encounter, there are two ways to approach it. The first is to wear them down one at a time, in the standard order mages, priests, scouts, tanks.</SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text>- However, this is inefficient from a killing speed standpoint. Ideally you want to force them to die all at the same time so your group can maximise its AE damage. This means you soak more damage through the encounter in exchange for faster kills.</SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text>- Thus only on named or encounters where there's a reasonable chance of failure should you take down the mobs in order. For exp grinding and trash, rapidly cycling targets is more efficient and will increase your group / raid dps (although, it can be beneficial to pick of priest mobs to avoid having damage healed).</SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text><STRONG>AA</STRONG></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text>- The stamina line is extremely good and underrated. 'Which AA is best' is a common question. I'd strongly argue for Sta 4 4 8 4 8 and Wis 4 4 5 8 to give a combined benefit of decreased power consumption, maximum mitigation, and high DPS. If you're worried about taking hits sacrifice the DPS gain in the wis line for maximum avoidance in the buckler line.</SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text>- Your goal on a raid is often to maximise hate generation rather than be an incredibly defensive turtle that occasionally pokes the enemy back. More hate from you means more dps from your raid, means faster killing means more loot. Thus another popular approach is the str line, although it's generally admitted the increased hate generation from raw buckler line damage beats 10% hate from the str line, and brings other benefits soloing and grouping.</SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text><STRONG>Maximising Hate Generation</STRONG></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text>- The sign there's a problem is when you lose aggro more often than the rescue timer comes up. In a group situation you should gradually taunt less and try and gauge the threshold at which you start losing aggro. You might often find you actually need to do very little more than tap Protection at the start of the fight.</SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text>- Assuming a problem as above is occuring, first look to the group for support:</SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text><EM> o If you have a Swashbuckler, Assassin, or Dirge in the group, ensure they have their hate transfer on you by checking your buff icons. Familiarise yourself with the icons so you can remind them if necessary after deaths / wipes.</EM></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text><EM></EM></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text><EM> o If you have a Monk or Brawler, target them and check their buffs to make sure they aren't using a hate generating ability like Storm Stance, which generates aggro every time they land a blow. Many forget to turn it off when joining a group.</EM></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text><EM></EM></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text><EM> o Ensure you have assuage / moderate etc. on the appropriate target. This is often common sense, however, there are a few situations where it's hard to judge; generally I favor giving it to Warlocks over Wizards, rank Summoners fairly low (their hate is split with the pet), Scouts fairly low (they can reduce their own hate and manage aggro), and other Fighters highly (because they have no means to reduce their aggro). Thus generally I find it best to stick on the Warlock / Wiz first, failing that any other tanks, then Rangers. Although they're so nerfed it's seldom a problem <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></EM></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text>- Secondly ask yourself what you can do to avoid the problem</SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text><EM> o Ensuring all items / CAs relating to DPS and taunting are at the best level possible is obvious, though not always possible. You will have to accept if tanking in a group with handcrafted gear and adept I CAs that a full-fabled raid DPS player will be a nightmare to out-taunt unless you ask them to reduce their damage, or if they have a lot of high end hate reducing items.</EM></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text><EM></EM></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text><EM> o Because one of your primary hate-generating abilities requires you be hit by the mob for it to trigger, it's often a lot harder to pull aggro off someone than maintain it. Thus the first 5 seconds of a fight are crucial. A group encounter should be opened with Protection, and any single target with Confront immediately followed by Vengeful Strike. Following it with high damage CAs is pretty logical.</EM></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text><EM></EM></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text><EM>o Especially at higher levels, you'll be stunned at the start of most fights, possibly for quite a few seconds. In these situations it can be best to save Protection and try and get another taunt in before the stun hits.</EM></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text><EM></EM></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text><EM>o If you're having trouble with group encounters specifically, cycle targets and land single high-damage CAs and taunts on each mob individually. Brawlers pretty much have to do this to keep aggro; since we've got stronger group taunts this is quite often overlooked. Competent DPS players shouldn't be relying on you to target for them all the time.</EM></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text><EM></EM></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text><EM>o Bear in mind a rooted mob will target only players adjacent to it using its hate list; if none are adjacent it targets the nearest. This works two ways; firstly to your advantage since both the Entrench (AE slow / root) and Wall of Force lines root the mobs. Secondly to your disadvantage since an ill-timed root from a groupmate can leave a mob rooted and seemingly inexplicably hitting the healer whilst you waste taunts. Wardens in particular have their debuff and root in one spell, and a de-aggro that roots and thus you're likely to find the encounter rooted occasionally when grouped with one. Damage breaks most roots in the game.</EM></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text><EM></EM></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text><EM>o The value of your AE attack, particularly coupled with Reinforcement, is important when dealing with multiple encounters. Again when dealing with more than one encounter the first 5 seconds are vital; one encounter should be taken with Protection, any solo mobs with single taunts, and your encounter attack/taunt used to bring any remaining groups in line. Following this with Reinforcement and an AE attack should get you in a situation where you can pull the mobs away from the group to check they're all aggroed then use Plant to lock them in place.</EM></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text>- Thirdly admit defeat and request the offender reduce their DPS.</SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text><EM> o Before doing so, ask yourself 'is aggro loss jeopardising the group?'. If you're fighting trash or have very good healers, then letting a wiz go full burn to clear it might be the smart option. Try not to get caught up in the ego thing of having to hold aggro constantly, and make sure when you ask people to decrease dps or play differently it will benefit the group / raid as a whole.</EM></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text><EM></EM></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text><EM> o Some players will refuse to do so and continue to hit mobs with ice comet on the pull. You can do nothing but shrug in this situation and wait till their gear hits 0%.</EM></SPAN></DIV> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN class=time_text><STRONG>Combat Arts</STRONG></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN class=time_text>- Master 1 Entrench (only usually 20gp off a broker) offers better reduction in mob DPS than I think even the Adept I of Plant (28 levels higher). It also does this with less of a reduction to your DPS than any version of the higher tier duplicates of this ability, and consumes less power. Whilst the spell description suggests the resistability should make it impossible to use at higher level, it appears currently unresistable. Thus M1 Entrench is usually a better option than higher tier versions of the CA.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN class=time_text>- Similarly to the above, a lot of our abilities have an associated negative effect on us that increases with tier. Lower tier masters are frequently useful because of the lesser negative impact, and their lower power consumption. This applies to stances, and the wall of... line in particular. Even damage-dealing arts often offer better efficiency as a lower tier master over a high tier adept. Since Guardians have power consumption as a major weakness, any way you can bolster your efficiency helps. The shield bash line for example has consistent knockdown duration regardless of tier, so if you simply need a 2.5 second stun the lowest level version is a cheaper way of achieving it.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN class=time_text>- Guardian/Stone Sphere is very handy fighting mobs with negligible AE or soloing. The effect procs when you take damage as well as groupmates and can cut down a lot of damage at the start of an encounter. The downside is in an AE heavy situation you'll be slaughtered by intercepting - although this does make it useful in the rare situations you're not MT, making us the only class that can reliably intercept a fair chunk of damage directed at the tank since the recent intercept changes.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P> <P></P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN></P>Message Edited by TuinalOfTheNexus on <SPAN class=date_text>07-17-2006</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>11:43 AM</SPAN> <P>Message Edited by TuinalOfTheNexus on <SPAN class=date_text>07-17-2006</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>11:58 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by TuinalOfTheNexus on <span class=date_text>07-17-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:58 AM</span>

[Belce]

One of the things I like about the wisdom line is belly smash. Its debuff to mitigation and longish stun are very good to help establish initial agro on your target. The debuff helps improve damage for any melee class with you and its quick and easy to get in right at the start as a lead off. It will maximize the initial dps and scouts are helped with their hate transfers. I know its a long way to do things, but if I can, I like to pull tough fights with my mitigation debuff hex doll. Languages. Knowing the language of the mobs you fight will help greatly, any time they are about to switch agro for some reason those capable of speech and social action will shout their intention letting you know beforehand and allowing you to premept or react best. I think one is like "Kill him first so he can't heal the others!" agro has switched to your healer.

[Wabit]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Belce wrote:<BR>One of the things I like about the wisdom line is belly smash. Its debuff to mitigation and longish stun are very good to help establish initial agro on your target. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>the stun has been removed from belly smash...</P> <P> </P> <P>to the OP nice writeup, but i wouldn't go AAs the same as you...  agro is a nonissue on raids really, thats what supports classes are for...  i really can't remember the last itme i was out of power other than on power drain mobs...  the 8 points spent there are pita, the heal is nothing on a raid, the power gain is minimal with the correct raid setup...  and you're not even maving out the avoidance in the buckler line for infavor of dps...  </P> <P>buckler spec was fun for soloing and grouping would even be fine for all of KoS (cept the KB in HoS)...  but untill they make a bucker with the stats of a towershild for mita then the towershield wins for tanking...  i'm not in a raid to do dps, i'm there to stay alive the best that i can...  so i'll take an AA line that actully would be useful against the big bad things in the adv pack...  just my 2c</P><p>Message Edited by Wabit on <span class=date_text>07-18-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:17 AM</span>

[Belce]

True, no stun with belly smash anymore, just the mitigation debuff ajnd teary eye. Thank you Wabit. I hate to see the groups that were done to perpetually stun and debuff a mob that required that nerf, and glad I was not part or parcel to it. Well if it is doable, it will be done. You woulod think that after this many years that a company as long in the tooth as SoE would see it coming. Without the stun, belly slam is relegated to being 'maybe kinda nice, on a good day, depending on the tide, the moon, your brith sign, the mob's bday and all'. I mean because it doesn't always work on someone else's knockdown and to be certain you have to knock it down yourself with a shield and have a hammer and they don't make hammers for guardians really either. I gave up on two handed hammer because the mob on its butt with yellow circles arounds it head was not an indicator that it had been knocked down, surprise, it looks knock downed. Tareget must be knocked down to use skill was result. If it was a sync problem, repeating the attack a few times should allow the game to catch up and apply, but no.

[TuinalOfTheNexus]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Wabit wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Belce wrote:<BR>One of the things I like about the wisdom line is belly smash. Its debuff to mitigation and longish stun are very good to help establish initial agro on your target. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>the stun has been removed from belly smash...</P> <P> </P> <P>to the OP nice writeup, but i wouldn't go AAs the same as you...  agro is a nonissue on raids really, thats what supports classes are for...  i really can't remember the last itme i was out of power other than on power drain mobs...  the 8 points spent there are pita, the heal is nothing on a raid, the power gain is minimal with the correct raid setup...  and you're not even maving out the avoidance in the buckler line for infavor of dps...  </P> <P>buckler spec was fun for soloing and grouping would even be fine for all of KoS (cept the KB in HoS)...  but untill they make a bucker with the stats of a towershild for mita then the towershield wins for tanking...  i'm not in a raid to do dps, i'm there to stay alive the best that i can...  so i'll take an AA line that actully would be useful against the big bad things in the adv pack...  just my 2c</P> <P>Message Edited by Wabit on <SPAN class=date_text>07-18-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>12:17 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I think it's probably to do with raid makeup - specifically, what your healer to dps ratio is.</P> <P>If you have more healers, then losing a % of mitigation and avoidance in exchange for the hate generation that will let casters nuke earlier and be less cautious (I don't see aggro as a non-issue myself; I think you can always push it to allow the DPS to push too - mind you I'd admit it's close to being trivial). If, however, the majority of raid wipes happen because you get smacked down and the healers can't keep up then there's obviously a very strong case to sacrifice solo and group AA for raid ability - but even then, what line? Against an orange named a half dozen defense or parry is going to have a practically non-existent difference.</P> <P>The final part of the buckler line again is more for groups (where, without a chanter, power is unquestionably a constant problem if you're a chain puller). The reason I haven't maxed avoidance is that if I absolutely, positively need to avoid as much as possible I still use a tower shield, and even with 8 points in Gladiator's Revenge even Grizzfazzles, probably the easiest to obtain T7 legendary shield, gives about 1% higher avoidance.</P> <P>I guess in short what I'd say is, if there were a definitive AA line that offered clear and noticable raid gains, then I'd take it. But there ain't. Note that mitigation is still maxed in this configuration. The only other defensive AA options come in the form of defense and parry, and mean you have to dump points into abilities you can't use simultaneously or that pigeonhole you into using certain weapon types. That or possibly Dragoon's Reflexes which imo isn't on a short enough timer or long enough duration to be anything more than a get out of jail free card if you mess up a pull badly. I've never really had a moment where I though 'wow, if I'd been able to parry for 12 seconds we'd have won that'.</P>

[Wabit]

<P>i was talking about the mita from the tower shield compared to that of a buckler...  the one weapon type is used for like on ability per line (except the buckler one)...  none of the last tier abilites are worth it at all imo...  </P> <P>the AA line i actully really did like was agi 4/4/8, wis 4/4/8/8, that left me with some random points to just toss anywhere...  this build and the str/wis line are actully better AE agro without having to tab...  but i only recomend the wis line to anyone...  the reast are nice but none stands out as the best...</P>

[Throl]

<P>Being a priest, I hate when the tank pulls a group of mobs with a bow.</P> <P>I'll get aggro every time due to reactive heals.</P>

[Zagnut1]

<DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Wabit wrote:<BR> <P><FONT color=#cc0000>i was talking about the mita from the tower shield compared to that of a buckler...</FONT>  the one weapon type is used for like on ability per line (except the buckler one)...  none of the last tier abilites are worth it at all imo...  </P> <P>the AA line i actully really did like was agi 4/4/8, wis 4/4/8/8, that left me with some random points to just toss anywhere...  this build and the str/wis line are actully better AE agro without having to tab...  but i only recomend the wis line to anyone...  the reast are nice but none stands out as the best...</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>What mitigation are you refering to?  Protection Factor on a shield has zero impact on your mitigation.  Unless a shield specifically has +crush, +slash, +pierce, then it will only affect your avoidance.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I usually use my Ironplate Shielding Buckler for 95% of fights (raid mobs included)...If you have 8 points in the buckler defensive line switching from the 400ish protection factor buckler to a 1300ish protection factor tower shield you only lose about 1-2% avoidance.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have many tower sheilds that I swap in during certain raid mobs where resists are a key factor or for when I get low on health I'll equip that tower shield for Tower of Stone of course...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Luke - 70 Guardian - <EM>The Kraken</EM> (Nagafen)</DIV> <DIV>Aleksandr - 60 Bruiser - Guk (retired)<BR></DIV>

[Wabit]

<DIV>the t7 fabled shields are 1400 SF, and 145 mita... </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>or like the shield we got off venny last night 1363 SF, 71 mita, 497 poison/disease/magic, 927 divine, 23 str/sta, 18 agi...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>personally i want my block % as high as it can be...  its the most consistant form of avoidance for me against orange mobs, it can't be debuffed...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>my views might be different if i had better gear than relic (WTB decent plate loots)...  i tried the buckler out for raid tanking...  yes it was nice on the trash, my dps was up 250ish...  but on the harder encounters i found myself switching back to the bigger shields...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>i play my guard as a raid MT, i'll give up the soloing/grouping AAs...  i want to kill the turtle dragon, the contested in ML, and the NB in HoS...  i just don't see that being done sporting a buckler... </DIV>

[TuinalOfTheNexus]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Wabit wrote: <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>i play my guard as a raid MT, i'll give up the soloing/grouping AAs...  i want to kill the turtle dragon, the contested in ML, and the NB in HoS...  i just don't see that being done sporting a buckler... </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>It has been <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>But think about it ~ 2% more or less damage is counterable by having a Warden instead of a Fury somewhere in the raid makeup. There are hundreds of different possible raid configurations, and whilst I'd love to be so important to the raid a tiny shift in my avoidance wipes us, it just doesn't work that way <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[Wabit]

<P>every little bit adds up...  higher avoidance, templar and dirge with stoneskin procs on the tank, more mita...  things can be killed without them, but its alot easier with them...</P> <P>whats funny to me is some of tanks with the buckler spec say they switch back to a tower shield on the bigger fights...  i've tried it for raids, i didn't like it...  i also tried the tsunami AA and didn't like that but some tanks swear by it...</P> <P>as MT i'm already doing 750dps raidwide dps is like a merged 12k, and 15k on some named (/hail MO)...  6 healers is about all we ever use...  i want the most mita, HP, and avoid i can get...  dps is one of the last things on the list for me...</P>

[R]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TuinalOfTheNexus wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Wabit wrote: <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>i play my guard as a raid MT, i'll give up the soloing/grouping AAs...  <STRONG>i want to kill the turtle dragon, the contested in ML, and the NB in HoS...  i just don't see that being done sporting a buckler...</STRONG> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR><STRONG>It has been <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></STRONG></P> <P>But think about it ~ 2% more or less damage is counterable by having a Warden instead of a Fury somewhere in the raid makeup. There are hundreds of different possible raid configurations, and whilst I'd love to be so important to the raid a tiny shift in my avoidance wipes us, it just doesn't work that way <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Has not =p</P> <P><BR>I'd have to agree with Wabit though, the small avoidance difference along with the 145 miti from T7 fabled tower shields is too much to pass up for a small dps boost. If agro was an issue I'd just spec str line.</P>

[FightGame]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Throlia wrote:<BR> <P>Being a priest, I hate when the tank pulls a group of mobs with a bow.</P> <P>I'll get aggro every time due to reactive heals.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Hmmm, I don't see that happening.  Maybe the tanks are using some cheap arrows that don't do as much damage.  I use t7 arrows, and usually hit between 1000 and 2000 points of damage.  I also have the rest of the group behind me, and taunt the mob as soon as it's in range.</P> <P>I'm sure this could happen if I was using a cheap bow and t2 arrows, and didn't taunt them on their way in.</P>

[Zagnut1]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> saphka wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>I'd have to agree with Wabit though, the small avoidance difference along with the 145 miti from T7 fabled tower shields is too much to pass up for a small dps boost. <FONT color=#cc0000>If agro was an issue I'd just spec str line.</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Personally I think 76% double attack would generate more hate than 10% increase from the STR line, but I could be wrong. </P> <P> I play on Nagafen so I find the double attack to be extremely valuable in PvP fights (huge double bow shots on mages that root you).</P> <P>Currently I'm spec'd    STA 4/5/8/8  WIS 4/4/8/8 ... </P> <P>Once you have the obvious WIS line for mitigation the rest of the points seem like personal preference.</P>

[Throl]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> FightGame wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Throlia wrote:<BR> <P>Being a priest, I hate when the tank pulls a group of mobs with a bow.</P> <P>I'll get aggro every time due to reactive heals.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Hmmm, I don't see that happening.  Maybe the tanks are using some cheap arrows that don't do as much damage.  I use t7 arrows, and usually hit between 1000 and 2000 points of damage.  I also have the rest of the group behind me, and taunt the mob as soon as it's in range.</P> <P>I'm sure this could happen if I was using a cheap bow and t2 arrows, and didn't taunt them on their way in.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Well I said a GROUP of mobs.  It doesn't matter if he has the uberest arrows and bow in the game, unless the bow has an AE proc (and even if it does i dont see it doing much) then the other mobs that didnt get hit will get angry at my reactive heals.  Pulling the mob with a taunt then a quick AE taunt solves the problem.  Leave the bow and arrow to the professionals <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Wabit]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Throlia wrote:<BR> <BR><BR>Well I said a GROUP of mobs.  It doesn't matter if he has the uberest arrows and bow in the game, unless the bow has an AE proc (and even if it does i dont see it doing much) then the other mobs that didnt get hit will get angry at my reactive heals.  Pulling the mob with a taunt then a quick AE taunt solves the problem.  Leave the bow and arrow to the professionals <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>considering my bow can crit for 5k+ useing a buckler i could double attack for over 10k (its usually in the 6k range)...  thats like pulling with icenova...  if they are grouped no biggie that means i have locked agro on one mob, have 2 single target taunts and 2 AE taunts still up and ready to use...</P> <P>mobs don't all come at the same time either, some stop to cast and that will put them out of AE taunt range at times...  reactives are a very small amount of inital hate, nothing like a shammy stacking wards...  even if you get multi sets one PB and i've got agro...</P> <P>its the same thing on raids, pull with hexdoll, arrow pull, body pull...  its all the same tbh, useing a bow just saves one me one taunt for when the others are resisted...</P> <P>i'm 350/350 ranged skill, that makes me a professional at useing a bow...  i own one of the best bows in the game just for pulling (our rangers cried when i outbid them)...  but for pulling its the best thing in the game besides a sacrfical monk, even with a monk pulling i have agro off him before he gets back to me...</P>

[Kine]

Which bow are you talking about?<div></div>

[Wabit]

<DIV>aITEM 1751552911 1509245991:Ancestral Sarnak War Bow/a drops off venny 100% haste 100% dps its 4.0 delay and tops at ~4500...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>only other one that compares is the one off tarinax aITEM -860359341 -1487356328:Bazkul the Soulseeker/a but thats more from the t8 legendary arrows it summons...</DIV>