I need some advice.

[Sirlutt]

on 2 things.the first one is holding agro.  I am fully adept3, no masters (cept for Protection Master II) and I am finding I am the limiting factor in the DPS that the raid can put out.  Thats fine except it seems that anything over about 600-700 DPS peels agro from me.  These DPS have alot of masters, and are very experienced raiders, they are using their abilties to the fullest.  I'm not sure what to try, I am using ALL my taunts as fast as they are up, all my damage abilties as fast as they are up.  MT group is usually Temp, Mystic, Warden, Coercer, Swashy ... we dont have a fulltime Dirge just yet, though the coercer can swap to his dirge if needed.  Everyone but my is pretty much mastered out, buffs and all.I'm going to start farming T6 instances for masters to try to get all my T6 taunts master, I respec'd last night to go 4 4 4 8 in STR for the 10% hate gain (it was at 5%) and only went 4 4 4 4 Wis (lost 157 mit temporarly, but i can make that up with a couple of claymore quests and a potion easily).  Out side of that I am not sure what to do .. any tips on generating a little more agro, or holding it better?.. i think the extra 5% will help a bit..its on everything, CA's, DPS, Taunts.2nd issue.. MOA 4 trial.Ok these new agro rules are really messing with this last fight.  We clear the big golem guy, and the wanderers just before the dragon.  There are still 2 wanderers on either side of the dragon, but I wait for them to path back down and then body pull the dragon.I take it to one of the corners in that area before the dragon room that usually has the roamers.  Rest of the raid is out behind the dragon. 89% of the damage i am taking is crushing .. the AE is negligable for me at least ... and manageable for everyone else.We know the roamers in that area will repop.. usually about 5 mins.. but we plan tot burn him down before that happens... the issue is the roamers in the dragons room keep adding.  We arent true AEing, no one is over near them.. but when they come to the top of their roam, they add.  Is this from the new social agro screwup SOE put in ?... we thought maybe it was dumbfire pets, as the dragons hit box is so huge the pets arrange around him and end up out the sides.. or is it a result of them pathing to within social range of his big [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]?.. this fight isnt hard.. but after LU24 things add like crazy all over the zone.. Advice?<div></div>

[Berek_IronAxe]

<P>I am not expert Raider but done enough to offer a little bit.  I have the same AA set up - STR for the crits/hate and then Wis for Mit.  Same on Taunts - Adept3 with Protection M2. </P> <P>Might be a dumb question but is your Inflaming Defence and your hate reducer Adept3 or Master</P> <P>I am also assuming the MA has all the DPS Fight/Assist with him, is pulling/peeling the Minions of the named one at a time while you hold the Named.  Unless it is a single mob -then everyone pile drives him.</P> <P>I am not to MoA Trial #4 yet so I can not help.</P>

[AlexT]

<DIV>What is your current weapon ? If it's not T7 fabled then that is one cause of your low agro</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also make sure everyone in your group and raid has given you all the damage shields and weapon procs that they can</DIV>

[Berek_IronAxe]

Now I use a T7 Master Crafted Imbued.  It hits always unless they are immune to Slashing.  With the Str line even on Auto Attack I Crit regularly with my Axe.

[TanRaistlyn]

<DIV>I havent done MoA trial 4 in a long long time, BUT if the draogs keep adding why not just kill them first?  Kill the two in the room, then kill the warden, then kill the two wanderers on each side, re kill the room pops, then the dragon...seems simple enough.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Agro control I cant imagine what the problem is, ESP if you have a Swashie AND a Coercer in your MT grp...perhaps make better use of deagro abilities..like put a troub in the grp of the people whos major problem is agro, or give them a pally for amends, or a coercer's deagro(which can be cast across grps), any of the like should work... And also a good idea is to communicate with the people snagging the agro, its more their fault then yours.  Any wizard can steal agro ESP on grp encounters by going bucknutz on their fusions, novas, forge of ros, etc. etc.  so make sure you yell at them each time they do steal agro so they can learn how to control it.</DIV>

[Sirlutt]

I'm using a T7 legendary weapon .. that one axe thing with Regen IV.We do kill the pops just before the warden .. the two wanderers just inside the door.. then pull the warder (died 5 times till we worked out the right pull strategy.. Templars hammer was the only thing that worked .. body pull got the dragon too.)..Thinking of pulling the dragon back into that room.. the door guys are a 10 min repop, the wanderers 5 mins.  Or we could use the hammer to pull he guys on the sides before the dragon.. only issue i see is that eats into the 5 mins we have to kill the 4 roamers and sometimes 2 door mobs .. if we do that in say 2-3 mins only leaves us about 2 mins before the 2 roamers pop within agro or social range.I'm taking a huge amount of crushing damage from the mob aswell.. 90% of the damage i take is crushing.. seems to be hitting me for 1500-4000 crushing every couple of seconds.. the AE is trivial compared to that.<div></div>

[Berek_IronAxe]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sirlutt wrote:<BR><BR>I'm taking a huge amount of crushing damage from the mob aswell.. 90% of the damage i take is crushing.. seems to be hitting me for 1500-4000 crushing every couple of seconds.. the AE is trivial compared to that.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Is your Healers spamming Cures on you.  I know that the mobs in HoF have some nasty effects that drop Mit to nearly 0.<BR>

[Sirlutt]

<div><blockquote><hr>Berek_IronAxe wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Sirlutt wrote:I'm taking a huge amount of crushing damage from the mob aswell.. 90% of the damage i take is crushing.. seems to be hitting me for 1500-4000 crushing every couple of seconds.. the AE is trivial compared to that. <div></div> <hr> </blockquote>Is your Healers spamming Cures on you.  I know that the mobs in HoF have some nasty effects that drop Mit to nearly 0.<hr></blockquote>They are curing the Mental DOT, the crushing is just the mobs auto attack I think.. not dot related.. just makes up most of the damage i am taking .. its not unmanageable though .. its when the adds social agro because the mobs social range is so huge thats a problem.  I guess i need to find somewhere else to position him where wanderers wond decide to come help.  No one is getting into agro range of the adds, they are just coming to help as iff social pulled when they path close to the mob.</div>

[JNewby]

<P>his problem is nto wiht heals it is with the social aspect of the mobs since live 24.. imo u cant kill those 2 wanders and have time to kill the last mob... and sicne I havent done that post 24 I dont know how to do it</P> <P> </P>

[Wabit]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> <P>Sirlutt wrote:<BR>on 2 things.<BR><BR>the first one is holding agro.  I am fully adept3, no masters (cept for Protection Master II) and I am finding I am the limiting factor in the DPS that the raid can put out.  Thats fine except it seems that anything over about 600-700 DPS peels agro from me.  These DPS have alot of masters, and are very experienced raiders, they are using their abilties to the fullest.  I'm not sure what to try, I am using ALL my taunts as fast as they are up, all my damage abilties as fast as they are up.  MT group is usually Temp, Mystic, Warden, Coercer, Swashy ... we dont have a fulltime Dirge just yet, though the coercer can swap to his dirge if needed.  Everyone but my is pretty much mastered out, buffs and all.</P> <P><FONT color=#ff00ff>if a swashy isn't working tey an assassian...  600-700 dps is the normal MT dps alone, with the coercer + self hate thats like 50% hate gain, a dps speced swashy can average 1500-2000 dps on most everything...  check your buffs make sure you have them all...  and make sure you are getting your cures, the stuns/stiffle/daze/fear all take away from your hate gain...  most of your guild is used to a zerker as MT their AE agro is considerably more than a guards, make sure everyone (including you) is assisting the MA...</FONT><BR><BR>I'm going to start farming T6 instances for masters to try to get all my T6 taunts master, I respec'd last night to go 4 4 4 8 in STR for the 10% hate gain (it was at 5%) and only went 4 4 4 4 Wis (lost 157 mit temporarly, but i can make that up with a couple of claymore quests and a potion easily).  Out side of that I am not sure what to do .. any tips on generating a little more agro, or holding it better?.. i think the extra 5% will help a bit..its on everything, CA's, DPS, Taunts.</P> <P><FONT color=#ff00ff>t6 is pita for agro, nobody cares is the pull agro cause they'll live threw it...  green cons have the to-hit penelty, but our taunts don't scale like dps does, your not going to be getting hit so our crappy HtL is even worse...</FONT><BR><BR>2nd issue.. MOA 4 trial.<BR><BR>Ok these new agro rules are really messing with this last fight.  We clear the big golem guy, and the wanderers just before the dragon.  There are still 2 wanderers on either side of the dragon, but I wait for them to path back down and then body pull the dragon.<BR><BR>I take it to one of the corners in that area before the dragon room that usually has the roamers.  Rest of the raid is out behind the dragon. 89% of the damage i am taking is crushing .. the AE is negligable for me at least ... and manageable for everyone else.<BR><BR>We know the roamers in that area will repop.. usually about 5 mins.. but we plan tot burn him down before that happens... the issue is the roamers in the dragons room keep adding.  We arent true AEing, no one is over near them.. but when they come to the top of their roam, they add.  Is this from the new social agro screwup SOE put in ?... we thought maybe it was dumbfire pets, as the dragons hit box is so huge the pets arrange around him and end up out the sides.. or is it a result of them pathing to within social range of his big [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]?.. this fight isnt hard.. but after LU24 things add like crazy all over the zone..</P> <P><FONT color=#ff00ff>did the zone for the first time in a couple months last night, 20 ppl total with like 6 healers and 6 tanks, 2 chanters and a bard...  we were missing 4 of our top 5 dps...  was slower than i wanted but just hex pulled the warden, didn't wait for pops and killed the dragon...  sounds like your placement needs work...  back corner with the healers dps along that wall should agro nothing unless the roamers spawn...  </FONT><BR><BR><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>you're new to MTing, it can be a steep learning curve...  parses are a wonderful thing...  you can see what each person is doing threw the entire fight...  just talk to the ppl that are pulling agro, see what they are doing to pull it...  then see what you can do to prevent it...  i frontload all my hate, whole line of thinking there, kill it before their hate catches up to mine...

[Sirlutt]

<div><blockquote><hr>Wabit wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <p></p> <hr> <p>Sirlutt wrote:on 2 things.the first one is holding agro.  I am fully adept3, no masters (cept for Protection Master II) and I am finding I am the limiting factor in the DPS that the raid can put out.  Thats fine except it seems that anything over about 600-700 DPS peels agro from me.  These DPS have alot of masters, and are very experienced raiders, they are using their abilties to the fullest.  I'm not sure what to try, I am using ALL my taunts as fast as they are up, all my damage abilties as fast as they are up.  MT group is usually Temp, Mystic, Warden, Coercer, Swashy ... we dont have a fulltime Dirge just yet, though the coercer can swap to his dirge if needed.  Everyone but my is pretty much mastered out, buffs and all.</p> <p><font color="#ff00ff">if a swashy isn't working tey an assassian...  600-700 dps is the normal MT dps alone, with the coercer + self hate thats like 50% hate gain, a dps speced swashy can average 1500-2000 dps on most everything...  check your buffs make sure you have them all...  and make sure you are getting your cures, the stuns/stiffle/daze/fear all take away from your hate gain...  most of your guild is used to a zerker as MT their AE agro is considerably more than a guards, make sure everyone (including you) is assisting the MA...</font>I'm going to start farming T6 instances for masters to try to get all my T6 taunts master, I respec'd last night to go 4 4 4 8 in STR for the 10% hate gain (it was at 5%) and only went 4 4 4 4 Wis (lost 157 mit temporarly, but i can make that up with a couple of claymore quests and a potion easily).  Out side of that I am not sure what to do .. any tips on generating a little more agro, or holding it better?.. i think the extra 5% will help a bit..its on everything, CA's, DPS, Taunts.</p> <p><font color="#ff00ff">t6 is pita for agro, nobody cares is the pull agro cause they'll live threw it...  green cons have the to-hit penelty, but our taunts don't scale like dps does, your not going to be getting hit so our crappy HtL is even worse...</font>2nd issue.. MOA 4 trial.Ok these new agro rules are really messing with this last fight.  We clear the big golem guy, and the wanderers just before the dragon.  There are still 2 wanderers on either side of the dragon, but I wait for them to path back down and then body pull the dragon.I take it to one of the corners in that area before the dragon room that usually has the roamers.  Rest of the raid is out behind the dragon. 89% of the damage i am taking is crushing .. the AE is negligable for me at least ... and manageable for everyone else.We know the roamers in that area will repop.. usually about 5 mins.. but we plan tot burn him down before that happens... the issue is the roamers in the dragons room keep adding.  We arent true AEing, no one is over near them.. but when they come to the top of their roam, they add.  Is this from the new social agro screwup SOE put in ?... we thought maybe it was dumbfire pets, as the dragons hit box is so huge the pets arrange around him and end up out the sides.. or is it a result of them pathing to within social range of his big [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]?.. this fight isnt hard.. but after LU24 things add like crazy all over the zone..</p> <p><font color="#ff00ff">did the zone for the first time in a couple months last night, 20 ppl total with like 6 healers and 6 tanks, 2 chanters and a bard...  we were missing 4 of our top 5 dps...  was slower than i wanted but just hex pulled the warden, didn't wait for pops and killed the dragon...  sounds like your placement needs work...  back corner with the healers dps along that wall should agro nothing unless the roamers spawn...  </font></p> <hr> </blockquote>you're new to MTing, it can be a steep learning curve...  parses are a wonderful thing...  you can see what each person is doing threw the entire fight...  just talk to the ppl that are pulling agro, see what they are doing to pull it...  then see what you can do to prevent it...  i frontload all my hate, whole line of thinking there, kill it before their hate catches up to mine...<hr></blockquote>alrighty.. thanks for the advice.. few things I need to check on there then..I frontload aswell on big single targets.. Rescue, + everything I can throw at the mob... I'm going to look at the parses alot more.. i think maybe the swashy might need to do a bit more DPS to help me.</div>

[khufure]

Put a dirge in the MT group w/ hate increase instead of the coercer.  You will be golden afterwards.<div></div>

[Kriddle Kraddle]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> khufure wrote:<BR>Put a dirge in the MT group w/ hate increase instead of the coercer.  You will be golden afterwards.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Ummmm Coercer has hate increase also and its higher so this isnt really the best suggestion. Both Dirge and Coercer work for this just fine. The major difference in these 2 is coercer will give more power and the dirge has precussion of stone/screeching illusion.<p>Message Edited by Kriddle Kraddle on <span class=date_text>06-23-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:25 PM</span>

[FightGame]

<P>imo, using rescue on the pull is a waste.  If you're the one pulling, or even if someone else is pulling to you, you should be on the top of the hate list, with any type of taunt or hit.  From there, just spam your single target taunt and group taunt....and do some damage.  Doing decent damage and taunting is key to holding aggro.  Of course you also need good spells, like adept3 or better.  Rescue does 2 things.  First it raises your hate by 3 positions - so if you're already in the top position (during the pull), this part of it is completely wasted.  It also has alot of hate (like 3,000+ if I remember correctly).  This may be useful, but really shouldn't be needed.  People in the raid should wait 5 seconds for you to build a little hate before they unload.  In the event that someone does pull aggro from you, and you can't taunt it back in time before it kills them or someone else, that's when you need rescue.  And if you've already spent it on the pull, it's gonna be down for 10 minutes, so you're [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] outta luck, and so is the raid.</P> <P> </P> <P>Edit: took out the part about using insolent gibe...thought I was still in the zerker section.</P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by FightGame on <span class=date_text>06-23-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:51 PM</span>

[Sirlutt]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>FightGame wrote:<div></div>imo, using rescue on the pull is a waste.  If you're the one pulling, or even if someone else is pulling to you, you should be on the top of the hate list, with any type of taunt or hit.  From there, just spam your single target taunt and group taunt....and do some damage.  Doing decent damage and taunting is key to holding aggro.  Of course you also need good spells, like adept3 or better.  Use insolent gibe if you're in a safe area to not pull others.  Rescue does 2 things.  First it raises your hate by 3 positions - so if you're already in the top position (during the pull), this part of it is completely wasted.  It also has alot of hate (like 3,000+ if I remember correctly).  This may be useful, but really shouldn't be needed.  People in the raid should wait 5 seconds for you to build a little hate before they unload.  In the event that someone does pull aggro from you, and you can't taunt it back in time before it kills them or someone else, that's when you need rescue.  And if you've already spent it on the pull, you're [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] outta luck, and so is the raid.<hr></blockquote>good advice.. except i am already doing that.  All of it.With the new social changes is when you body pull, you cant taunt until the mob is clear of adds, otherwise you'll pull them too.  I'm tanking for people who are mostly mastered out, so their debuffs and the like are pretty serious agro generators.. so its tough.. thanks for the advice though.. ido appreciate it.. all of it.oh and i have reinforcement for regaining agro .. i find Rescue much more useful to hit after my first set of taunts on big fights to get me that extra 3000 hate head start..</div><p>Message Edited by Sirlutt on <span class=date_text>06-23-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:50 PM</span>

[Wabit]

<DIV>rescue is all about the hate positions...  the upfront taunt is nice but its all about the positions...  its really a bad habit to get into useing resuce on the pull...  you just waisted a save for memwipe mobs (tarinax, vyemm, ect)...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>just rememebr the habits you form now will stay with you...  i still wanna click of HtL to move, and am looking for my buffs to cycle (i miss cycleing those)...</DIV>