They are fixing the Interception lines !!

[Sirlutt]

http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=102725#M102725OMG YAY !<div></div>

[Crim001]

<DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=102725#M102725" target=_blank>Clicky</A> for those of us that are lazy....</DIV> <DIV>Yay!!</DIV>

[Lyrus]

The People Rejoice! <div></div>

[Meattray]

<DIV>YAY </DIV> <DIV>hang on, im gona have to learn how these spells work, o well YAY</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Can i make a sugestion, can we get a small proc on our offensive stance to help dps just a little bit?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>not asking for much, just a little boost.   My guard feels like a 1930 tank compared to my Fury that feels more like a Humvee <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sorann 60 Guard</DIV> <DIV>Taylon 70 Fury</DIV> <DIV>Najena</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Wabit]

brawlers just became the new raid MT of choice i think...

[EasternKing]

i heard all that at lu 13 wabbit ....i fail to see how us getting working intercepts is going to make us a worse tank.

[Wabit]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TheEasternKing wrote:<BR> i heard all that at lu 13 wabbit ....i fail to see how us getting working intercepts is going to make us a worse tank.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>they dont make us any worse of a tank, but if interced takes my mita into account 100% damage to me 0 to target on my mita, add in the brawler larger HP pool...  guardians already buff monks really well with our group buffs...</P> <P>guard avoidance check on a monk, out 24 defence group buff, our 20something to the crush/slash/peirce, and the 600HP buff...  solo i'm over 6k mita, now give that to a monk once ever 30 secs (3 other plate tanks in the raid doing the same)...  tsunami is pleanty of time to get a mob debuffed so its hitting once a year or so...  the monk is the weakest link for us on princes, this will definatly make the encounter 10x easier...</P> <P>the way it sounds is that they aren't making intercepts work off the targets mita/resist (how it used to be), but they will work off mine...</P> <P>i like the old way better, it adds alot more survivability to those that are interveneing...  also it was balanced for all 6 of the tank classes, this proposed way its only balanced for 4 of the 6 classes...</P> <P>but i could definatly make it work with this setup...  tarinax's frontal inc, have the SK just buff his poison to about 12k and take that one hit (ehh least it gives em something to do besides auto attack) and hit it then...</P>

[aislynn00]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Wabit wrote:<BR> brawlers just became the new raid MT of choice i think...<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Guardians will remain the main tank of choice for the very same reasons we currently occupy that position.  We still have the best mitigation and highest survivability.  The fact that some of the damage suffered by the MT can now be transferred to another tank in no way, shape, or form implies you would want a MT with less mitigation.  </P> <P>If anything, you would want a guardian (or berserker) as MT with <EM>another</EM> guardian absorbing some of the incoming damage.<BR></P>

[aislynn00]

<P>Just for the record, Lockeye didn't explicitly state that the guardian-only interception lines (i.e., Sustain, Stone Sphere, and Sentry Watch) would be changed.</P> <P>While I'm certainly hoping the upcoming changes will affect all damage interception combat arts, they might only apply to the one single line that all fighters share.</P>

[Sirlutt]

<div><blockquote><hr>aislynn00 wrote:<div></div> <p>Just for the record, Lockeye didn't explicitly state that the guardian-only interception lines (i.e., Sustain, Stone Sphere, and Sentry Watch) would be changed.</p> <p>While I'm certainly hoping the upcoming changes will affect all damage interception combat arts, they might only apply to the one single line that all fighters share.</p><hr></blockquote>i expect they will all work off the same central bits of code.. why write the same thing many times ?I hear what Wabit is saying..  and it will be interesting to say the least.. in this situation you would want the highest avoidance tank in place, every attack avoided is 100% miigated.  Chain the intercept from 3 or 4 other tanks (has a short recast) and your effectively getting a MT with brawler avoidance and plate class mit .. couple in with that our other buff that can be placed on other classes permanently and your healers should be AE free.</div>

[aislynn00]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sirlutt wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR>I hear what Wabit is saying..  and it will be interesting to say the least.. in this situation you would want the highest avoidance tank in place, every attack avoided is 100% miigated.  Chain the intercept from 3 or 4 other tanks (has a short recast) and your effectively getting a MT with brawler avoidance and plate class mit</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Even with three or four secondary tanks using their damage interception lines, you can't possibly hope to catch anything close to the majority of an epic(x4) mob's attacks.  </P> <P>If you don't believe this, then take a look at a parsed log of a tier 7 epic battle, find the attack rate of a boss mob, factor in the probability that any given attack will hit the tank (also available in the parsed log), compare the result (i.e., average number of successful attacks per unit of time) with the average number of intercepts per unit of time.</P> <P>Now, if any one of the attacks that get past the intercept buffs is able to one-shot a brawler while a warrior would survive due to superior mitigation, you will still want a warrior as MT.  Why risk a wipe due to a one-shotted MT when you can entirely eliminate that uncertainty factor from the equation by picking a warrior MT?</P> <P>Another issue is keeping intercepting fighters standing all through a fight.  Keep in mind that you won't be able to MT-buff three, let alone four, secondary tanks, nor will you be able to keep wards and reactives up on them pretty much permanently, so while the MT might not be one-shotted, an intercepting tank could very possibly be.</P> <P>A much more likely scenario is a warrior (either guardian or berserker) in the MT role with a single guardian acting as damage interceptor.  One damage interceptor could more easily be kept alive than four separate ones, and with a warrior MT, he wouldn't have to use his intercepts all the time, instead reserving them for those critical moments after a damage spike occurs.</P>

[aislynn00]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sirlutt wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> aislynn00 wrote:<BR> <P>Just for the record, Lockeye didn't explicitly state that the guardian-only interception lines (i.e., Sustain, Stone Sphere, and Sentry Watch) would be changed.</P> <P>While I'm certainly hoping the upcoming changes will affect all damage interception combat arts, they might only apply to the one single line that all fighters share.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>i expect they will all work off the same central bits of code.. why write the same thing many times ?<BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>You don't seem to understand what I am saying:  Neither Lockeye nor any other developer ever stated that guardian damage intercepts were considered broken.  For all we know,  they may be considered "working as intended".  </P> <P>If that is indeed the case, why would the new code be applied to guardian damage intercepts?</P>

[Noah]

<DIV>Man, now I need to add another hotbar <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Sirlutt]

<div><blockquote><hr>aislynn00 wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Sirlutt wrote: <div> <blockquote> <hr> aislynn00 wrote: <div></div> <p>Just for the record, Lockeye didn't explicitly state that the guardian-only interception lines (i.e., Sustain, Stone Sphere, and Sentry Watch) would be changed.</p> <p>While I'm certainly hoping the upcoming changes will affect all damage interception combat arts, they might only apply to the one single line that all fighters share.</p> <hr> </blockquote>i expect they will all work off the same central bits of code.. why write the same thing many times ? <hr> </div></blockquote> <p>You don't seem to understand what I am saying:  Neither Lockeye nor any other developer ever stated that guardian damage intercepts were considered broken.  For all we know,  they may be considered "working as intended".  </p> <p>If that is indeed the case, why would the new code be applied to guardian damage intercepts?</p><hr></blockquote>I was meaning that the core part of those functions probably makes a call to the same function in a class library at some stage that does the computations for the amount of damage taken.  I'm just making a guess but that would seem the efficient way to do it, make a call like check_intercept(unmit_dam, player_mit) and have it return the amount of post mitigated damage.  You'd call that from inside any piece of code that dealt with intercepted damage.that makes alot more sense than repeating the same piece of programming/alogorithm a dozen or more times.As for the brawler tanking, I'm not saying you would intercept all of the damage from an epic, but with a MT group of Brawler, warrior, 3 healers and what ever support class was deemed appropriate (possibly conj for HP/mit) , plus a secondary tank group of 2 plate tanks, 2 healers and the appropriate support classes you'd be looking at something like this.Brawler tanks.  Probably a bruiser for his high HP.  The warrior uses his mit buff when its up at the start of a fight, plus intercept, plus TOS to help with the intial hits.  Warrior 2 in G2 cues his Intercept up behind W1, and the pally in G2 uses his ward first, then intercept 2nd.  You have 3 stacked/cued intercepts to 3 separate tanks, all plate classes and mitigated.  you have the brawler with a high avoidance and the extra mit from the Guardian in G1.I'm not saying your going to make the briser invulnerable, but by the time your through spacing those 3 intercepts out, the pally wards and the usual healing, along with his avoidance you will probably reduce the damage spikes alot.  If your brigands are doing their jobs the mobs will be debuff'd alot after the first 20-30 seconds anyhow..I havent done any serious T7 raiding yet except messing about in the labs .. but even there with my unmitigated intercept and 2 other tanks doing it we were able to take an encounter we kept wiping on alot, and get us through the initial damage spikes from the pull.With templat/inquis reactives, Fury HOT's, Mystic wards, dirge stone skin, secondary tanks avoid checks, pally wards and now 2-3 intervenes its going to add to what you can do at the start of a fight.  Are you gonna use a Plate tank as your MT?.. yeah probably but now it opens the options and gives a alot more options to those not lucky enough to have a good guardian tanking .. alot of the pallys that might have had issues with things like HPF can get assistance from another plate tank.For me though i am excited as it adds more options to mitigate the initial hits and gives me a decent role when not MT, adds more reason to put a plate tank supporting your MT in the MT group.  Still will need to see how it works out and if it wrrants changing the MT group around.. but I can think of some specific situations where i'd ask all my plate tanks on the raid to soak the intial hits.</div>

[Berek_IronAxe]

Wow I will have to dust off my Intercept Line Icons.  They have been sitting in the Knowledge/CA window since I started my Guardian.  Good to hear SOE is finally fixing something that has been broken for a while.

[Rah]

<P>It is my hope that since our flavor of tanking is to allow us to absorb damage from mob attacks that the change will include our skills and not just all warriors skills. Lets pray that is the case.</P> <P>It appears that if this is implemented correctly we may have just bought ourlselves into additional raid slots for the sole purpose of hp battery. </P> <P>In grouping I still have on my hotkeys every intercept skill and use them as selectively as possible. I will admit that as broken as they are it has been fun, when i did mange to survive the damage,sitting silently while everyone congratulated the healer for keeping up <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. I eagerly await the change to see how much more usefull these lines will become.</P> <P>I think we really need to stay on top of this change when its implemented so we can provide so valid feedback as soon as possible. They are fixing us lets make sure they get all the facts on the fix this time.</P> <P> </P> <P>Crossing his fingers</P> <P> </P> <P>Rahge</P> <P>70 Guardian</P>

[Kelkirra]

<DIV>Gratz guys. Glad they are finally fixing this. =)</DIV>

[Berek_IronAxe]

<DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Rahge wrote:<BR> <P>It appears that if this is implemented correctly we may have just bought ourlselves into additional raid slots for the sole purpose of hp battery. </P> <P> <HR> <P></P> <P>LOL, Hook up the battery Cables.  Feel the burn - Baby.</P></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>

[aislynn00]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sirlutt wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR>Are you gonna use a Plate tank as your MT?.. yeah probably</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Which was my point: brawlers won't become the new preferred raid MT.</P> <P>Nobody said you couldn't <EM>use</EM> a brawler as MT, though.  Heck, you could do that even now, without damage interception; it just isn't as reliable an approach as using a warrior tank.</P>

[Sirlutt]

<div><blockquote><hr>aislynn00 wrote: <blockquote> <hr> Sirlutt wrote: <div>Are you gonna use a Plate tank as your MT?.. yeah probably</div> <hr> </blockquote> <p>Which was my point: brawlers won't become the new preferred raid MT.</p> <p>Nobody said you couldn't <em>use</em> a brawler as MT, though.  Heck, you could do that even now, without damage interception; it just isn't as reliable an approach as using a warrior tank.</p><hr></blockquote>understood and I agree <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />man this is one of the most exciting changes to date for me.. lol</div>

[Lyrus]

<div>Mine was a nice trim 3 hotbar setup with lots of abilities macroed together two to a button, Now I'll have to add in yet another.<blockquote><hr>Noah wrote:<div>Man, now I need to add another hotbar <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><hr></blockquote></div>

[Zodi]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Wabit wrote:<BR> brawlers just became the new raid MT of choice i think...<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P>What make syou say this. I thought us a guardians will benefitiate the most out of this change. Since it will allow to bring another guardian in a raid. Maybe I am wrong but please correct me personalyl I think this is way to go as our name says GUARDIAN our role is to protect allys in combat</P> <P>Please elaborate why you think brawlers wil lbenefitiat ethe most out of this</P> <P> </P></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></DIV>

[SGho]

<P>As a non-MT (usually) on raids (I'm the back-up Guardian), I now have something to do BEFORE the MT dies <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>I'm a happy puppy.</P> <P>Meanwhile, unbelievably enough, there are brawlers whining about how they want their avoidance to come into play with intercept because they won't be able to do it as well as plate tanks.</P> <P>Unbelievable.</P> <P>P.S.  I now wonder if Tower of Stone and the Sphere line will suck up any of this damage as well.</P><p>Message Edited by SGhost on <span class=date_text>05-10-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:43 AM</span>

[JNewby]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sirlutt wrote:<BR>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=102725#M102725<BR><BR>OMG YAY !<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>my idea of them fixing it would be to remove them and give us a nice ability in their place</P> <P><BR> </P>

[Krooner]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zodian wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Wabit wrote:<BR> brawlers just became the new raid MT of choice i think...<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P>What make syou say this. I thought us a guardians will benefitiate the most out of this change. Since it will allow to bring another guardian in a raid. Maybe I am wrong but please correct me personalyl I think this is way to go as our name says GUARDIAN our role is to protect allys in combat</P> <P>Please elaborate why you think brawlers wil lbenefitiat ethe most out of this</P> <P> </P></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I think what hes thinking is that if you can pull the mob with Sunami, tank the mob with 80% avoidance, and 360 parry deflect, and all the other bralwer goodies AND not have to worry about mitigation now as long as there is a guardian in the group/ raid to offer more mitigation.  Then why have a plate tank at all.  I dont agree with this because most of the bralwer arts are short term buffs.  It will help them tank better and it will let guards tank better as well.  I beleive that brawlers already do get a buff somewhere that allows the target to use their avoidance check.  </P> <P>off topic:  I know my first sentance is a bit of a run on but bah sue me you grammer police.<BR></P>

[Sirlutt]

<div><blockquote><hr>Warbird1 wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Zodian wrote: <div> <blockquote> <hr> Wabit wrote: <div></div>brawlers just became the new raid MT of choice i think... <hr> </blockquote> <blockquote> <p>What make syou say this. I thought us a guardians will benefitiate the most out of this change. Since it will allow to bring another guardian in a raid. Maybe I am wrong but please correct me personalyl I think this is way to go as our name says GUARDIAN our role is to protect allys in combat</p> <p>Please elaborate why you think brawlers wil lbenefitiat ethe most out of this</p> </blockquote></div> <hr> </blockquote> <p>I think what hes thinking is that if you can pull the mob with Sunami, tank the mob with 80% avoidance, and 360 parry deflect, and all the other bralwer goodies AND not have to worry about mitigation now as long as there is a guardian in the group/ raid to offer more mitigation.  Then why have a plate tank at all.  I dont agree with this because most of the bralwer arts are short term buffs.  It will help them tank better and it will let guards tank better as well.  I beleive that brawlers already do get a buff somewhere that allows the target to use their avoidance check.  </p> <p>off topic:  I know my first sentance is a bit of a run on but bah sue me you grammer police.</p><hr></blockquote>all fighters get the avoidance check buff, and the intercept line so this benefits everyone.it has many other uses too, such as a way to keep healers alive through an AE.Picture Big Tankasauraus and his 3 healers.  He is up close, healers are at max range, but inside AE range.  3 other tanks are at max range from those healers, .. with their own healer.. all out of the AE.  they intercept every 30-45 seconds the AE damage, their healer gorup heals them.not possible with the current unmitigated stuff but definately possible with this new change.</div>

[Wabit]

<P>what i'm thinking is brawlers as MT have always been about teh spike damage...  most raids have 3 or 4 plate tanks right???  intercede is raidwide and the best intervene line imo (fast recast and the MT takes 0 damage at M1)...  a debuffed raid mob hits like ever 4 secs...</P> <P>so 4 sec attack speed, 4 plate tanks chaining intercede...  that covers 16 secs, vigalance line will block/parry/ripose on average once every 30 secs, that puts it to 20 secs...  now the brawler MT has 10 secs to accout for in this time frame...  if he avoids even one or two attacks in the 30 sec span the intercede chain takes over again...</P> <P>monk tank 12 secs of melee immunity on the pull to get the mob debuffed...  if you time a chain correctly then he'll be pretty much damage immue for the first 30 secs of a fight... </P> <P>think of it this way...  MT group of monk, guard, fury, templar, defiler, dirge...  fury, monk, guard all swpaing mita buffs...  that covers what 90 sec of the fight could bump it to about 100 if you timed it just right...  add in a interdece chain...  it won't work for every mob, but alot of the single mobs its actully looks like a reliable strat on paper...</P> <P>but i'am always lookin for ways to make all six of the tank classes as a viable option as a raid MT...  a SK can raid MT everything cept one mob in KoS (stupid disease immunity)...  its not about that yes guards tanking everything, its about beating an encounter...  and there are encounters where warriors aren't the best choice for a MT, we can still tank em but if its easier with another tank then have them tank...  the thing that matters most is walking out of labs with vyeem dead, HoS with the mino dead (we haven't yet), Lyceum with valwhatever dead, ect... </P> <P>i have a feeling that mobs are gonna get some tweaks after this patch because they will become trival with intercede taking the casters mita(charged presence)...</P> <P>i guess i should have worded my rely different to say brawlers just became the new MT of choice for certian mobs...</P> <P>*note when i say monk i mean monk, bruisers in that cause they have different skill sets...</P>

[Kelkirra]

<DIV>May I ask Wabit, what mobs do you use a SK to tank for? I have yet to see a mob that the SK class could tank better than a warrior on. Just asking man, not flaming. =)</DIV>

[Wabit]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sarasoon wrote:<BR> <DIV>May I ask Wabit, what mobs do you use a SK to tank for? I have yet to see a mob that the SK class could tank better than a warrior on. Just asking man, not flaming. =)</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>anything that fears (i hate running away)...  mobs the have a true memwipe (except tarinax now :smileysad: ), princes...  umm our SK has tanked everythign in labs, all of lyceum, and a couple things in DT...  SKs are very useful to have around...

[Kelkirra]

<P>O_O</P> <P>JEBUS. Ok, I usually go after a trash mob in labs and get one shotted right off the bat. =/ Our usual tactic is to have me pull the mobs back to our guild guardian so that he can set himself up (and because I have the greatest understanding of proximity agro out of everyone in our raid-HoF and Sanctum did it =/). I've been one shotted more times in epic zones than I can count. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> After my experiences in Labs alone I gave up on MT in t7. I was able to off tank mobs in t6 with some luck (Sunchild was my most memorible, memwipe, defiler catches agro, all fighters burn their rescue, defiler uses deagro and SK gets punched in the face w00t), but t7 had proven to be almost impossible for me.</P> <P>I am still baffeled, but I'll take your word on it bud. Maybe one day I'll give it a shot <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.</P>

[Gungo]

<P>It may sound better on paper wabit but i seriosuly doubt a brawler would be a better raid tank using a intercede  chain. </P> <P>1) the avodiance difference between warriors and brawlers is actually much smaller in raids. most raid mobs have a +hit which is why brawlers will still get whacked alot. </P> <P>2) if your thoery is correct then no tank would get hit using a intercede change and a guard would still be preferred for better agro control.</P> <P>3) guards have way way better agro tanking yellow/orange con epics compared to brawlers.</P> <P>4) lets say at most you have 5 other fighters in raid. And each one of them is intercepting damage. lets say all 5 of those fighters have intercede master 1 and completely absorbs the hit. intercede is still a 1.5 min recast. MT's in raid believe me get hit more then 5 times in 1.5 minutes which still leaves the brawler at a distinct disadvantage for spike damage.</P> <P>I dont think the intercede, sustain lines wil warrant placing a guard into a raid just for that sole purpose. Remember zerkers, crusaders, even brawlers get intercede. Although Guardian sphere just became highly impressive in a group aoe absorbing role. </P><p>Message Edited by Gungo on <span class=date_text>05-10-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:44 PM</span>

[Sirlutt]

<div><blockquote><hr>Gungo wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <p>It may sound better on paper wabit but i seriosuly doubt a brawler would be a better raid tank using a intercede  chain. </p> <p>1) the avodiance difference between warriors and brawlers is actually much smaller in raids. most raid mobs have a +hit which is why brawlers will still get whacked alot. </p> <p>2) if your thoery is correct then no tank would get hit using a intercede change and a guard would still be preferred for better agro control.</p> <p>3) guards have way way better agro tanking yellow/orange con epics compared to brawlers.</p> <p>4) lets say at most you have 5 other fighters in raid. And each one of them is intercepting damage. lets say all 5 of those fighters have intercede master 1 and completely absorbs the hit. intercede is still a 1.5 min recast. MT's in raid believe me get hit more then 5 times in 1.5 minutes which still leaves the brawler at a distinct disadvantage for spike damage.</p> <p>I dont think the intercede, sustain lines wil warrant placing a guard into a raid just for that sole purpose. Remember zerkers, crusaders, even brawlers get intercede. Although Guardian sphere just became highly impressive in a group aoe absorbing role. </p><p>Message Edited by Gungo on <span class="date_text">05-10-2006</span> <span class="time_text">02:44 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>intercede is a 30 second recast , tkaes the  hit 1 time, its up for 1 min 40 seconds.  I only have adept 1 which is 100% for me, 21% for the thank but I think i will upgrade it.  Its a lvl 34 spell.</div>

[Wabit]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sarasoon wrote:<BR> <P> Ok, I usually go after a trash mob in labs and get one shotted right off the bat.<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>its all about the trauma cures there...  you're not getting them and eating the brigand debuffs...  watch your stats next time you pull you'll see what i mean...

[Kelkirra]

<P>Yeah, Dabilitate. Same [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] happens in HoF. Get debuffed and one second later, BAM, 15K damage. It's a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] pain in my [Removed for Content]. I think it has mostly to do with my gear and not being buffed as the MT. Agro didn't seem to be the issue when our guard went LD during the middle of a fight, DPS peeled agro off of him on one mob and we realized he was LD. I picked it back up and kept agro on it. </P> <P>I just don't see how I can tank the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] with a low HP pool and [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] for MIT compared to a warrior. It's the reason I don't even offer anymore for anyone. I"ll play MA and sucicide tank untill I see some sort of serious gear, after the warriors have their shot at it of course, and maybe even a muffin as a bribe. Mmmmmmmmmmmmmm, muffins.</P>

[Lamprey_02]

<P>Wabit -</P> <P>Why do you end every single sentence you write with an ellipsis (the '...' sign)? Is it because you don't know how to punctuate correctly, or is it because you couldn't be bothered since what you're saying isn't that important to ya?</P> <P>I realize that this is an internet discussion board and not an English class (and boy, do you realize that as well!) but this is just so glaring, it detracts from what you're trying to say. So I figured I'd ask.</P>

[Gungo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sirlutt wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gungo wrote:<BR> <P>It may sound better on paper wabit but i seriosuly doubt a brawler would be a better raid tank using a intercede  chain. </P> <P>1) the avodiance difference between warriors and brawlers is actually much smaller in raids. most raid mobs have a +hit which is why brawlers will still get whacked alot. </P> <P>2) if your thoery is correct then no tank would get hit using a intercede change and a guard would still be preferred for better agro control.</P> <P>3) guards have way way better agro tanking yellow/orange con epics compared to brawlers.</P> <P>4) lets say at most you have 5 other fighters in raid. And each one of them is intercepting damage. lets say all 5 of those fighters have intercede master 1 and completely absorbs the hit. intercede is still a 1.5 min recast. MT's in raid believe me get hit more then 5 times in 1.5 minutes which still leaves the brawler at a distinct disadvantage for spike damage.</P> <P>I dont think the intercede, sustain lines wil warrant placing a guard into a raid just for that sole purpose. Remember zerkers, crusaders, even brawlers get intercede. Although Guardian sphere just became highly impressive in a group aoe absorbing role. </P> <P>Message Edited by Gungo on <SPAN class=date_text>05-10-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>02:44 PM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>intercede is a 30 second recast , tkaes the  hit 1 time, its up for 1 min 40 seconds.  I only have adept 1 which is 100% for me, 21% for the thank but I think i will upgrade it.  Its a lvl 34 spell.<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Bah your right i was thinking duration and not recast. In that case wabit may have a point. Only problem i see is the short range in which intercept needs to work. Any aoe will prolly kill the intercepting fighter aoe + intercepted aoe = greater then any non- MT HP.

[Wabit]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gungo wrote:<BR> <BR><BR>Bah your right i was thinking duration and not recast. In that case wabit may have a point. Only problem i see is the short range in which intercept needs to work. Any aoe will prolly kill the intercepting fighter aoe + intercepted aoe = greater then any non- MT HP.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>only big AEs are the frontals, (vyemm and tarinax)...  i think i could eat 2 of most everything else nonMT buffed...<BR>

[Crim001]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lamprey_02 wrote:<BR> <P>Wabit -</P> <P>Why do you end every single sentence you write with an ellipsis (the '...' sign)? Is it because you don't know how to punctuate correctly, or is it because you couldn't be bothered since what you're saying isn't that important to ya?</P> <P>I realize that this is an internet discussion board and not an English class (and boy, do you realize that as well!) but this is just so glaring, it detracts from what you're trying to say. So I figured I'd ask.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Lamprey, meet PM system, PM system, meet Lamprey.</P> <P>This is happy thread! No messing around with personal attacks mmmkay!</P>

[Wabit]

<P>actully yes i do...  i use /shrug alot too...  the white writing with the black backround actully hurts my eyes reading the normal single . and double space...  i read posts that are all one runon paragraph with the correct punctuation and my eyes are screaming at me...  strictly gramaticaly speaking i am incorrect...  in the same respect i am wrong for not useing capital letters for names, at the begining of sentances, or for i...  i also use the wrong type of words to end my sentences...</P> <P>i honestly don't think in complete and proper sentence structure, i write whats on my mind and nothing else...  but if you really must know it comes from my time in the navy...  after a couple of deployments working on the flight deck not speaking a single sentence without at least useing one acronym...  you kinda have to train yourself to speak as few words as possible and fix whats wrong with the jet (clock is tickin)...</P> <P>i'm by no means an english major...  still pretty clueless where the correct place for an comma, colon, and semicolon...  if my sentence structure distracts from what i'm saying i'm sorry, but i'm not gonna change the way my writing style (for lack of a better term)...  its not that what i post here isn't important to me, if it wasn't i wouldn't bother to reply...  but as a very wise man once said "i am what i am"...  what you see in my posts is me, no false pretences...  this is a game i play for fun, not a job (feels like it sometimes)...  alot of my posts are while i'm working or have downtime ingame to write something, so they are usually quick replies...</P> <P>/walks away whistleing popeye song</P>

[Sirlutt]

just about anyone who has spent a large amount of time communicating on line uses ... to join their thoughts.. i've done it for years in chat channels, years in games and years on message forums.If it offends anyone, then OMGWTFBBQ !!! ... andget .. bent..<div></div>

[Aaliamz]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Sarasoon wrote:<div></div> <p>Yeah, Dabilitate. Same [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] happens in HoF. Get debuffed and one second later, BAM, 15K damage. It's a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] pain in my [Removed for Content]. I think it has mostly to do with my gear and not being buffed as the MT. Agro didn't seem to be the issue when our guard went LD during the middle of a fight, DPS peeled agro off of him on one mob and we realized he was LD. I picked it back up and kept agro on it. </p> <p>I just don't see how I can tank the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] with a low HP pool and [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] for MIT compared to a warrior. It's the reason I don't even offer anymore for anyone. I"ll play MA and sucicide tank untill I see some sort of serious gear, after the warriors have their shot at it of course, and maybe even a muffin as a bribe. Mmmmmmmmmmmmmm, muffins.</p><hr></blockquote>Furthermore, get the mitigation jewelery from the claymore line and the feather collection item. That's a big buff to your mitigation right there (I checked you out on EQ2players and you need to find some t7 gear - there is a thread on obtainable t7 loot on this board). Plus, if you guild is expecting you to tank they should prioritise high mitigaton plate loot to their tanks (imo!).<div></div><p>Message Edited by Aaliamzen on <span class=date_text>05-16-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:25 AM</span>

[Kelkirra]

<P>Check it out again. Most of my gear is fabled t6, fabled t7 or legendary t7. I've added a few pieces to my gear and SoE hasn't updated the player section -_-. I have the BP from Doomlord Septis in HoF, the boots from Sothis in HoF, 2 different class helms, fabled pants/gaussets/sholders from courts, the Draconic Deflector, the Meatclever and all acrillia jewlery. I'm working on the Claymore Line as I can but I have been running instances so that I can help myself and my guild get the gear that we can obtain when we are not raiding. I know it's nothing compared to the fabled t7 stuff, but my guild has just started to take down the named in Labs instead of just the trash mobs and I usually just decline when something good drops for a guardian or zerker.</P> <P>Where exactly is the thread on the t7 loot so that I can see what I have, don't have and need?</P>

[Aaliamz]

Ok, sorry I looked for that thread and it is a little out of date now and not really much use to you. I guess completing the claymore line as far as you can should be a priority now.  <div></div>

[Kelkirra]

<DIV>heh, np. I am working on completing these quests inbetween my instance runs at night and raiding. Thanks for the advice though =)</DIV>

[DmZB]

<DIV>From the test update notes:</DIV> <DIV> <HR> Fighter changes:<BR><BR>- Brawler: Instill Doubt: Reduced fear duration, reduced power cost.<BR>Increased Resistibility. Lowered overall break chances.<BR><BR>- Bruiser: Intimidate: Increased Reuse timer to 60 seconds. Increased<BR>Resistibility. Reduced Mesmerize duration and power cost.<BR><BR>- Guardian: Entrench: Root component no longer affects Epic targets.<BR><BR>- Guardian: Sentry Watch: Death prevention does not process on the<BR>caster, only allies in the group. <BR><BR>- Guardian: Guardian Sphere: Intercept no longer assists pets in the<BR>group.<BR><BR>- Guardian: Sentinel: Reduced some of the higher level chances at<BR>intercepting damage. <FONT color=#ff0000>Can only be used on Priests or Mages</FONT>.<BR><BR>- Fixed an issue that caused damage transferred by interpose spells to<BR>not be affected by wards, mitigation, stoneskin or pool conversions. <HR> </DIV> <DIV>Looks like they targeted it so that Guards will not be mitigating another MT's damage.  This is a good implementation IMO.  I wonder if ToS will again absorb damage from sentry watch...could be interesting.</DIV>

[Sirlutt]

you can still use Intercede raid wide, its a 30 sec recast, onetime intercept of 100%.Sentinel/Sustain is the perm group only one with a percentage to intercept... if i used it at all, it was only on the healer or caster.<div></div>