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View Full Version : Class issues that I would love to see fixed.


SeattleSeven
04-09-2006, 10:33 PM
<div></div><span class="postbody">First, these are my opinions, but I do hope they reflect the silent majority of guardians that often read the forums like me but rarely post.  I think that on the whole the guardian is pretty well balanced amongst the other fighters.  We do have a slight tanking edge which we make up for with a considerable dps deficit.  But since this is an increase in the primary role of al fighter, I think we should pay dearly for that increase.  So this will not be a post about upping our dps, increasing our mitigation, etc.Secondly, I am a raid tank and small group tank.  Soloing is my last option if nothing else is going on, so that is my play style and how this post is biased.<u>1.  TIER 7 GUARDIAN AGGRO IS UNDERPOWERED</u>Rescue (Master I) (Guardian lvl 25) (10 Min timer): -Increases threat priority by 3 positions -Increases Threat by 4,704 <u>NO UPGRADE IN TIER 7</u>Reinforcement (Adept III) (Guardian lvl 52) ( 3 Min timer): -On a successful melee attack increases threat by 343 and threat priority by 1 postion  <u>NO UPGRADE IN TIER 7</u>Confront (Adept III) (Guardian lvl 59) (8 sec timer): -Increases Threat by ~ 1095 (AVG).  <u>NO UPGRADE IN TIER 7</u>Protection (Master II) (Guardian lvl 64) (20 sec timer): - Increases Threat to the entire encounter by ~1079 (AVG).  <u>UPGRADED IN TIER 7 BY ~ 30%</u>.Vindictive Strike (Adept III) (Guardian lvl 66) (10 sec timer) - Increases threat by 953 (AVG). <u>UPGRADED IN TIER 7 BY ~28%</u>Goading Assault (Adept III) (Guardian lvl 58 ) (30 sec timer) - Increases threat on entire encounter by 803 (AVG)  <u>NO UPGRADE IN TIER 7</u>Inflaming Defense (Adept III) (Guardian lvl 57) (1 Concentration) - 50% chance to increase threat by 418 every time I am struck (almost always resisted) <u>NO UPGRADE IN TIER 7</u>I left off our single target hate decreaser since it is group only, and contributes little to holding raid aggro.  I've also left off aggro transfer abilities of scout classes, etc since they are a function of their class, not ours. As you can see, our overall aggro holding potential has not increased significantly, especially our aoe aggro (which Moorgard states is one of the core functions of a guardian).  Compare this to the hate generation increase of the other classes.  Did Cold Fusion only increase the hate generated by wizards by such a small percentage?  I don't have quantitative data to says that its more...but I do have qualitative data of the sheer struggle raid aggro holding has become.  I used to enjoy the skill that came with aggro holding.  Now, however, its become just a source of constant frustration.  There have been numerous posts that accurately ranked the Guardian in the middle of the pack of aggro holding, and this gap is only widening.  If we are the masters of aoe aggro with the ability to "really lock down aggro on a group" (again, Moorgard's words), why the disparity?  Some of you might argue that a lot of those skills also didnt increase in tier 6.  This is true; however, the comparative increase of our aggro was inline with the comparative hate-generation of other classes in that tier.  In this tier it is not. I can appreciate what Obliterate has given to the class in terms of soloability.  It was a much needed fix.  But there was a penalty that came with getting Obliterate and not a taunt for our new spell line.  A fix in this area might be to increase the % of hate generated by taunts yet again, but this still leaves that gap in what's supposed to be one of our core areas.  What I'd like to see is a new 65th level taunt added. I know there are AA lines to up your hate generation, but I've experimented with them and still found them lacking.  This is fine, since its an AA path I really didn't wan't to choose.  It's also a bad idea to require an AA line to restore a class to balance since every member of that class will then take that AA, defeating the purpose of differentiation. Since all of my taunts are at Adept III, and the Master I's seem so very rare and pricy, there really isnt much room I can improve there.  I can only be patient and wait for one to come to market that I can afford or drop in guild.  I would love to get an item like Ascendant, but should that be necessary for me to do?  Get an incredibly rare fabled drop for my class to function properly?2.TOWER OF STONE NEEDS TO HAVE THE EQUIPMENT DAMAGING COMPONENT REMOVED-  This has been discussed time and again, but the recent changes of having your equipment damaged that was worn for a full 2 minutes prior to your death has really increased the burden of this trait.  I'm also very tired of lugging around five tower shields in my inventory, and now some guardians will have to carry bucklers as well?  This is way more of a nuisance to me than the root or slow components of some of our spells ever was, since this hits me in the pocketbook.  Thats way more near and dear to a class that lives and dies on its gear.  This skill is a nuisance and hinders the enjoyment of the class.  Overflowing inventories, unnecessary repair costs, and always having to stop at the mender even if there were no group or raid deaths (to the puzzlement of some of the raid members) is annoying and not fun.  Removing this trait does not really affect the game balance of this class.Fix these 2 issues and I'll return to being a silent guardian, content with my class.[Edited to add my identity]<a href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/pplayer.vm?characterId=104959103" target="_blank">Kruck Slashrude</a>70 Guardian BlackburrowHarm's Way</span><div></div><p>Message Edited by SeattleSeven on <span class="date_text">04-09-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:36 AM</span></p>

Ep
04-10-2006, 10:23 PM
rescue/reinforcement are basically in the ancient, one of a kind type of spell these shouldn't get upgraded.rest is fine imo, same with zerkers in spell upgrades, just less of them.<div></div>

Bantel
04-11-2006, 12:12 AM
<div></div><p>Gonna say what the OP said, but in a different format <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p><strong>Direct Taunt</strong>lvl 59 - Confront - single target direct taunt Pre-DOF this CA was 5 lvls below max player lvl (lvl 45 Deafen). Pre-KOS this CA was 1 lvl below max player lvl (lvl 59 Confront). Post-KOS this CA is 11 lvls below max player lvl (lvl 59 Confront, no upgrade). <em>worse</em></p><p>lvl 64 - Protection - Encounter AoE direct taunt Pre-DOF this CA was 0 lvls below max player lvl (lvl 50 Protect). Pre-KOS this CA was 10 lvls below max player lvl (lvl 50 Protect). Post-KOS this CA is 6 lvls below max player lvl (lvl 64 Protection).<em> better</em></p><p><strong>Melee with Taunt</strong>lvl 58 - Goading Assault - Encounter AoE damage with taunt Pre-DOF this CA was 6 lvls below max player lvl (lvl 44 Taunting Assault). Pre-KOS this CA was 2 lvls below max player lvl (lvl 58 Goading Assault). Pos-KOS this CA is 12 lvls below max player lvl (lvl 58 Goading Assault).<em> worse</em></p><p>lvl 66 - Vindicitive Strike - damage with taunt Pre-DOF this CA was 12 lvls below max player lvl (lvl 38 Vengeful Strike). Pre-KOS this CA was 8 lvls below max player lvl (lvl 52 Unforgiving Strike). Pos-KOS this CA is 4 lvls below max player lvl (lvl 66 Vindicitive Strike).<em> better</em></p><p><strong>Taunt proc</strong>lvl 52 - Reinforcement - Taunt proc any mob hit with melee Pre-DOF this didn't exist. Pre-KOS this CA was 8 lvls below max player lvl. Post-KOS this CA is 18 lvls below max player lvl.<em> worse</em></p><p>lvl 57 - Inflaming Defense - Encounter AoE Taunt proc Pre-DOF this didn't exist. Pre-KOS this CA was 3 lvls below max player lvl. Post-KOS this CA is 13 lvls below max player lvl.<em> worse</em></p><p>So, sum total CA level relative to player level, we gained a total of 8 levels, but lost a total of 43 levels.It is very noticeable the closer you get to 70.</p><p>This is due to receiving all of our taunt abilities but 1 in the 57 to 60 level range, and the 1 below 57 didn't get upgraded in KOS.No new nifty hate gaining CA's were added to us in KOS.</p><p>My 2 suggestions:</p><p>Upgrade Reinforcement at lvl 66.</p><p>Upgrade Inflaming Defense at level 70.The 13 level gap on Inflaming Defense is very noticeable at lvl 70.This CA was added in DOF in recognition of our hate gaining/maintaining issues.An upgrade at lvl 70 will make it viable in KOS, and keep it viable in the next expansion,assuming they up the max player lvl to 80.</p>

Wabit
04-11-2006, 07:52 AM
<div></div><div>how are you gonna upgrade reinforcement???  its all about the 1 hate position, the taunt aspect of it is a bonus, could be wrong but doesn't it scale like rescue does???</div><div> </div><div>i'll agree our AE agro leaves something to be desired, middle of the road for what we're supposed to be best at, bah...</div><div> </div><div>for groups agro isn't an issue really, nothing hits hard enough or has enough HP to matter (some of the soon to be nerfed HoF mobs are only thing that comes to mind)...  and the 38% reducer goes alongway...</div><div> </div><div>but in a raid aspect, our class alone shouldn't be enough to have an agro lock...  its what makes raids raids the different classes workin together...  bard do so much for agro...  same with the swashy/assass agro transfer...  coercers are great too...  agro lock is coercer+dirge in MT group, and a couple troubs in other groups...</div><div> </div><div>i've tanked raids without any agro help...  its rough, but add those classes and its a night and day difference...  its all part of every class having a roll on a raid...  if you don't have bards (they are rare), then use a swashy or an assass and have them go hogwild... </div><div> </div><div>i've had the same struggles, and took me alot to admit i just can't hold agro without help unless the raid is doing like no dps...</div>