Solo'ing a non-issue

[Snikey]

<div></div><div>Solo'ing balance is a non-issue for the dev team for guardians, because we are highly sought after for grouping. So don't ask for it, it's intended. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><div> </div><div>**edit** spelling</div><p>Message Edited by Snikey on <span class="date_text">04-07-2006</span><span class="time_text">02:32 PM</span></p>

[Snikey]

<div>But discussion does seem to be open for "solo'ables" who want to tank "guardian only" high end encounters.</div>

[Sirlutt]

2 things wrong with that.. there shoudlnt be anything "guardian only" .. sure we might tank it better but the other tanks should be able to do the same content.and secondly.. if thats how its supposed to be then yes our solo ability needs some loving... a damage shield would be pefect I think..we have an offensive stance, and defensive stance and they toggle.  Do the same with a damage sheild and inflaming defence.  we dont need something that procs a taunt 50% of the time when hit.  Make an "offensive" version that procs a damage sheild when hit 50% of the time.  We cant have both up and in a group situation your gonna put the taunt on.<div></div>

[Wabit]

<div></div><p>just out of curosity, what are your issues with soloing???</p><p>guards have the ability to solo...  it ain't fast but we can kill alot of stuff...  my t6 raid gear is pretty equal to items that can be easily gotten in KoS...</p><p>if you wanna build your guard to be a soloer the AAs are there...  i've been messing around with AA lines some...</p><p>i'd rather see a proc added to our off stance than a damage shield (yay another need to be hit effect that works against avoidance)... 25% for 100 damage on a sucessful attack in off stance would be cool with me...  its not overpowering and adds like 25dps...</p>

[SGho]

Our DPS is so slow that if there is a healer in the group we're fighting, we often get our butts handed to us.  I'm a fairly decently equipped level 70 Guardian and if I pull a solo group or mob with a healer, I tend to just run for it.  I cannot even begin to keep up with the healing and I'll run out of power before the mobs are dead.  The same can go if the mob is one with a lot of HP - I run out of power long before it's dead.Regardless, I do agree with the general consensus that if other fighters can solo better /and/ can tank just as well (as they keep crying they should be able to do), then we need help in the soloing department for balance sake.<div></div>

[Crim001]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>SGhost wrote:Our DPS is so slow that if there is a healer in the group we're fighting, we often get our butts handed to us.  I'm a fairly decently equipped level 70 Guardian and if I pull a solo group or mob with a healer, I tend to just run for it.  I cannot even begin to keep up with the healing and I'll run out of power before the mobs are dead.  The same can go if the mob is one with a lot of HP - I run out of power long before it's dead.<hr></blockquote>My strategy for healer groups is usually to begin whacking on the healer right away, and once they begin to dump power on themselves or ward themselves, I switch to a caster or high hitter until they are finished dumping then return. Main reason for this is so that I can reduce a major hitter while the healer is occupied.....it usually requires the use of blast and hew, but it often works out for me.

[Snikey]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Wabit wrote:<div></div><p>just out of curosity, what are your issues with soloing???</p><p>guards have the ability to solo...  it ain't fast but we can kill alot of stuff...  my t6 raid gear is pretty equal to items that can be easily gotten in KoS...</p><hr></blockquote>I understand at max level many Guardians are happy with soloing. I'm level 45. Not sure if that answers your question.

[Belce]

<div></div>For really tough solo encounters, I pick the healer to start with and pull with my hex doll that debuffs mitigation, since I have wisdom AP attack, I start with shield bash for a knockdown and then belly slam them.  This results in about a 1600 mitigation debuff for all of my slow refresh big hits.  To add even better damage, cast bind wounds on yourself to start regardless of health and use the 10% dps boost as well.  It tends to make things very hard to recover for a healer in that situation. 

[FrostDragon]

<div></div>you can call it soloing I just want to get to the group without dying.   if it agros and its not green down I am dead.   When you die from triple downs trying to get to a group to fight triple ups something is wrong and its not that stick everyone waves saying learn your class.   lets talk survival factors here

[Meinen]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>FrostDragon wrote:<div></div>you can call it soloing I just want to get to the group without dying.   if it agros and its not green down I am dead.   When you die from triple downs trying to get to a group to fight triple ups something is wrong and its not that stick everyone waves saying learn your class.   lets talk survival factors here<hr></blockquote>hmm...never had this problem, sure some groups of double down encounters can make it close, but i usually come out on top.  Now at 70, i went with wis (4/4/5/8/0)and int (4/2/0/0/0) lines for my AP's and that gives me 12% DPS mod, 24% haste and 300+ to my mit.  Plan on going back down the STA line for double attack, can hit it without having to wait for new AP point increase.  Makes soloing and holding aggro (surprisingly enough) a little easier.

[Randell44]

MY guardian CAN solo at lvl 25 albeit slowly.  His gear isn't even that great either.Later on however I plan on going down both the stamina and intelligence Achievement paths.I will max acceleration strike and slayers speed from the int line, netting me a much greater attack rate. Then i am maxing buckler reversal, Gladiator's fitness, and gladiators revenge from the stamina line, which gives me more riposte/parry (better defense and occasional dmg), a good chance to double attack, and a dmg proc that happens whenever my opponents defensive skills stop my blow.As far as the buckler goes?  If i truly need that extra few % of avoidance or to use an ability  I'll have a nice tower shield on hand as well.  Also i'm heading down the intelligence path first.<div></div>

[Wabit]

<div></div><p>the sta line in general is good for the double attack and thats it...  i've been playing around with it the last few days...  i have lower avoidance (990 buckler) compared to draconic deflector, not to mention the lose of the 140ish mita...  i like the last ability too (less power consumed great for solo)...</p><p>the agi line i liked but i have a nice 1H spear, so i get use out of the extra AE and the chance for frontal AE is cool...  tsunami is nice but not worth all the points...</p><p>the wis line for the extra mita is a must imo...  i've noticed quite a difference in the hits i take soloing when i droped it...  the extra stun and mita debuff is great too...</p><p>the int line i haven't messed with at all, and doubt i ever will (running out of respecs)...</p><p>my final spec is probably gonna be str 4/4/4/8, wis 4/4/4/8, agi 4/4/1...  if i get the hate proc weapon i'll prob drop the str line and get tsunami and sump the extra points somewhere...  thats as raid tank though...</p><p>solo would be wis 4/4/4/8, sta 4/4/8, agi 4/4/5...  my spear is a 1.0 delay (can't wait till the proc actully works), and have 23% haste equipment already...  i also wanted to try a pure dps build but i never get to be dps in a group...</p><p>i can't comment on soloing below 50 anymore...  that was a different game for me...  from 50-60 it really was hard (i think AA's will help some)...  but after lvl 62 i started to mess around soloing some, and it wasn't bad...  anything that was yellow ^ or lower was a breeze, even the even con or 1 lvl higher ^^ i could take...</p><p>heres another tip...  M1 of the t6 is better than adept1 of current skills almost across the board, also adept3 of the new abilities really isn't much of an upgrade for some of the attacks...  use the older abilities, the dps/power maens alot...  grey M1 seem to be cheaper than rare loams anyways...</p>

[Numinor]

<div></div><div>"Balance" would seem to me to indicate that either:</div><div> </div><div>1.  Tank classes that can solo can tank content Guarians can tank, but not as well.  To balance this, I should be able to solo the content these classes can solo, but not as well.  This would preserve the flavor of being different classes - Guardians would be the "preferred" class for tanking those encounters, while those interested in soloing would not "prefer" to use a guardian to do it.</div><div> </div><div>2.  If the devs in their wisdom decide to work it out that all tank classes are equally effective in tanking all encounters, then guardians will need a significant boost so they will be equally effective in soloing the same content as the classes receiving the boost in tanking ability.</div><div> </div><div>Soloing ability doesn't replace the desire to group, but it does help to offset the need to group.  If changes are made where Guardians are no longer preferred for tanking, then they need to be given the same soloing ability as the classes receiving the tanking boost - and NOT just the post 60 raid geared Guardians.  At level 31, about all I have is grouping ability, and mostly handcrafted gear.  My friend's 32 monk in similar gear is able to solo in EL when grouping just isn't happening, should she receive a boost to give her tanking ability dead even with mine, I should be able to head to EL next level and solo the same content with the same efficiency when the grouping becomes more difficult for me because of the competition.</div><div> </div><div>Lets hope they put some thought into the issue before they break a bunch of classes or turn tanks in to a giant generic pool of "but you have different animations, of course you're not all the same".</div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div>

[Randell44]

agreed numinor<hr width="100%" size="2">the sta line in general is good for the double attack and thats it...  i've been playing around with it the last few days...  i have lower avoidance (990 buckler) compared to draconic deflector, not to mention the lose of the 140ish mita...  i like the last ability too (less power consumed great for solo)...<hr width="100%" size="2">I dunno the buckler reversal skill looks rather nice, especially if your also on a pvp server such as I.  Also the gladiators revenge pumps your buckler defense up so it's not AS far behind tower shield as it would be, in addittion to adding nice chance of riposte. Also the last spell in the line claims to add the 10% power saved onto your health.  That's pretty danged nice if spending 100 power means you spend 90 and gain 10 hp.  Not a HUGE amount but seems pretty nice to me, ESPECIALLY if for some odd reason your solo.Me I am looking at things with a flexible approach.  I enjoy soloing occasionally even with guardian.  There fore I have decided on Intelligence line 4/8/8 and stamina line 4/8/8/8.  I'll have much faster attacks that double attack, and the buckler reversal and extra buckler defense/riposte.However I am aware this means my defense will prolly be a bit lower.  Solution?  Carry 2 shields.  If i need to be defensive i'll be using a tower shield, if i need to be offensive I'll use my buckler.Ya I know i'm not gonna be doing the most killer dmg of any class.  But A.  It gives me more flexibilty as far as my limits go, B. I never expected to do that killer dmg, and C. I'm gonna stay updated with a very good 1h sword.Also with group buffs on me and procs, maybe I can actually be worth something other than tankage.  MAYBE.I'll let you know how it goes if i ever get all 50 points lol.<div></div>

[Drulak]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Numinor wrote:<div></div><div>"Balance" would seem to me to indicate that either:</div><div> </div><div>1.  Tank classes that can solo can tank content Guarians can tank, but not as well.  To balance this, I should be able to solo the content these classes can solo, but not as well.  This would preserve the flavor of being different classes - Guardians would be the "preferred" class for tanking those encounters, while those interested in soloing would not "prefer" to use a guardian to do it.</div><div> </div><div>2.  If the devs in their wisdom decide to work it out that all tank classes are equally effective in tanking all encounters, then guardians will need a significant boost so they will be equally effective in soloing the same content as the classes receiving the boost in tanking ability.</div><div> </div><div>Soloing ability doesn't replace the desire to group, but it does help to offset the need to group.  If changes are made where Guardians are no longer preferred for tanking, then they need to be given the same soloing ability as the classes receiving the tanking boost - and NOT just the post 60 raid geared Guardians.  At level 31, about all I have is grouping ability, and mostly handcrafted gear.  My friend's 32 monk in similar gear is able to solo in EL when grouping just isn't happening, should she receive a boost to give her tanking ability dead even with mine, I should be able to head to EL next level and solo the same content with the same efficiency when the grouping becomes more difficult for me because of the competition.</div><div> </div><div>Lets hope they put some thought into the issue before they break a bunch of classes or turn tanks in to a giant generic pool of "but you have different animations, of course you're not all the same".</div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div><hr></blockquote><p>Thats about as good as i could have put it - spot on the mark.  We can solo , but we should solo comparable to how well monks tank.</p><p>I have both classes and i know the huge difference in solo ability , but the relatively small difference in tanking ability.  Come on devs , just make it fair !!!!!!</p><p> </p><p>Comparing to other clases , it is a little sad when you see a character 2/3 levels below you soloing mobs you would get killed by ,   Ok it was a necro , who i have heard are best soloers in game ,  But come on people , i expect to be able to solo better than lower level characters. That's just plain wrong <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Message Edited by Drulak on <span class="date_text">04-10-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:53 PM</span></p>

[Terron]

The OP was completely wrong, and appears to be a troll.Either the devs have been concerned with guardian soloing or they have improved it accidentally, which seems unlikely.I mostly solo. I know I could get faster xp in a group, but I do not like xp groups. I like to take a bit longer and admire the scenery. Grouping to do quests is a different matter.I am level 48 with handcrafted and treasured armour (I have an imbued ebon chest piece on order).I have only 3 APs so far, but the first was a big help.Each of my 3 alts is a better soloer (swashie, illusionist and fury) but my guardian main is good enough for me to have fun soloing with him.The late 20s through the 30s were the worst time for my soloing experience. Things have changed, but I feel a little more is probably needed for those levels.My advice is to get your offensive stance to adept III, get some imbued chest armour at your tier for the healing (I wore feyiron thoughout the 30s, I only found my first feysteel cluster yesterday) and try to get the PGT.<div></div>

[SGho]

<div></div><p>In a Q&A from the fan faire...</p><p><strong>What is being done about the DPS against Guardians in the Halls of Fate?</strong> <font color="#ff6633"><strong>Guardians will be addressed and improved</strong></font>. Mob DPS in the Halls of Fate will be adjusted lower as the devs believe the DPS is too strong.</p><p>What would it have taken for a developer to pop in here and mention this to us? <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Randell44]

Not much but it's time they were evidentally using well so I'm not too miffed.<div></div>

[Wasuna]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>SGhost wrote:<div></div><p>In a Q&A from the fan faire...</p><p><strong>What is being done about the DPS against Guardians in the Halls of Fate?</strong> <font color="#ff6633"><strong>Guardians will be addressed and improved</strong></font>. Mob DPS in the Halls of Fate will be adjusted lower as the devs believe the DPS is too strong.</p><p>What would it have taken for a developer to pop in here and mention this to us? <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><hr></blockquote>I'm not really sure where to look for that. Can you post a link or where I can search to find it?

[Snikey]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>The OP was completely wrong, and appears to be a troll.Either the devs have been concerned with guardian soloing or they have improved it accidentally, which seems unlikely.<hr></blockquote><p>Sorry, this was posted right after the combat panel... I was tring really hard to ask about this issue in a way that did not come of as [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing. There was a monk that asked about getting increased DPS and Utility, and the devs respose was "So you want to be a scout?".</p><p>While asking my question I thru in that I understood tanking issue needed balanced as there has to be a disticyion between scouts and fighters, but was interested in what balance for DPS they were CURRENTLY (don't come off telling me I'm a troll) looking at for fighters, that with tanking be close to equal in small/duo groups and soloing, the disparity of DPS hurt.  The response I got was soloing did not need balancing for guardians because we are highly sought after for groups. paraphased.</p><p>Sorry if someone else was there or has a transcript they can word for word it.</p>

[mastersard]

<div></div><blockquote><p></p><hr><p>Snikey wrote:</p><p>The response I got was <font color="#ff0000">soloing did not need balancing for guardians because we are highly sought after for groups</font>. paraphased.</p><hr></blockquote>Which, i suspect, most of the EQ2 <em>community </em>(i.e. paying customers) disagree with.  If brawlers had been told "<font color="#ff0000">We dont need to balance tanking for Brawlers because they are highly proficient at soloing</font>" the entire Monk/Bruiser community would have burned them at the stake.  In stead, we got LU13.  It seems like Devs expect Guardians as customers to Stand there and take it, because that's what they designed our class to do, primarily.

[Jiimbo]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Wabit wrote:<div></div><p>just out of curosity, what are your issues with soloing???</p><p>guards have the ability to solo...  it ain't fast but we can kill alot of stuff...  my t6 raid gear is pretty equal to items that can be easily gotten in KoS...</p><p>if you wanna build your guard to be a soloer the AAs are there...  i've been messing around with AA lines some...</p><p>i'd rather see a proc added to our off stance than a damage shield (yay another need to be hit effect that works against avoidance)... 25% for 100 damage on a sucessful attack in off stance would be cool with me...  its not overpowering and adds like 25dps...</p><hr></blockquote><p>Can you explain this? What is AA?</p><p>I am a level 30 guard and want to solo. It bugs me that I cannot solo without a healer.</p><p>What can I be doing wrong?</p>

[Crim001]

<div></div><p>Ok....honestly, if you can't solo blues, you're going to have issues.....As a guard, you're gear dependent, and when solo, very CA dependent....</p><p>At 57 w/all legendary gear and app IV/adept I CAs, I usually can take solo mob(s) quite easily, and occasionally go for 3 consecutive battles. I don't have any AA's (too lazy to buy KoS and deal with patcher) and I'm not that rich....you just gotta learn the pros and cons.....guards can take the hits while solo just as much as while grouped, that's what keeps me going, only problem I have is power.</p><p>Paraphrase, flame, quote all you want, if you can't solo, that's an issue you have to deal with, because it's entirely possible. If you have to harvest, farm, and sell off your stuff to buy everything you need, do it and feel free to complain about it here on the boards, but remember, it isn't doing anything to help you in-game.</p><p>It's just a game, if I have to do a little work to get where I need to be, so what? It'll be worth it in the end.</p>

[Terron]

Regarding the OP, sorry for calling you a troll but it looked liked you were expressing your own opinion rather than describing what the devs said. <blockquote><hr>Crim001 wrote:<div></div><p>Ok....honestly, if you can't solo blues, you're going to have issues.....As a guard, you're gear dependent, and when solo, very CA dependent....</p> </blockquote>There was a time when I could not solo blues. Now I can and even yellows with down arrows. I am still in handcrafted and treasured armour, and the quality of my CAs has not improved. I now have a better weapon, but only since this weekend. The improvement in soloing came before then. Partly it was the new CA at the start of T5 - the one that pacifies. Partly it was getting my first AP (only have 3 so far). But mostly it has been changes made in the last few months. If these were no deliberate then I have been giving the devs too much credit. E.g. with LU 20 my swashie became much weaker at soloing, but my guardian became another bit stronger. My swashie is still a better soloer (for her level) but my guardian is good enough for me to enjoy playing him solo. The most important thing I think for soloing a guardian is to get some imbued chest armour, for the healing it gives. We normally survive long enough for it to proc. Improving your offensive stance is next. <div></div>

[Jiimbo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Crim001 wrote:<BR> <P>Ok....honestly, if you can't solo blues, you're going to have issues.....As a guard, you're gear dependent, and when solo, very CA dependent....</P> <P>At 57 w/all legendary gear and app IV/adept I CAs, I usually can take solo mob(s) quite easily, and occasionally go for 3 consecutive battles. I don't have any AA's (too lazy to buy KoS and deal with patcher) and I'm not that rich....you just gotta learn the pros and cons.....guards can take the hits while solo just as much as while grouped, that's what keeps me going, only problem I have is power.</P> <P>Paraphrase, flame, quote all you want, if you can't solo, that's an issue you have to deal with, because it's entirely possible. If you have to harvest, farm, and sell off your stuff to buy everything you need, do it and feel free to complain about it here on the boards, but remember, it isn't doing anything to help you in-game.</P> <P>It's just a game, if I have to do a little work to get where I need to be, so what? It'll be worth it in the end.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Please excuse my ignorance, but what is CA's and AA's?</P> <P>And as a Level 30 Guard, what gear should I be looking to get?</P>

[Snikey]

Aye was just reporting what kind of response I got at the Fan Faire.

[Snikey]

<DIV>Jimbo.. I had HUGH issues even solo'ing blues... let alone tring a green ^^^ ... till others told me how gear dependant we are compared to other fighters. Get yourself 3 items, Rare crafted Imbued Chest, Legs, and Weapon.... and you wont believe the difference. Upgrading your combat arts help a lot too.</DIV>

[Jiimbo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Snikey wrote:<BR> <DIV>Jimbo.. I had HUGH issues even solo'ing blues... let alone tring a green ^^^ ... till others told me how gear dependant we are compared to other fighters. Get yourself 3 items, Rare crafted Imbued Chest, Legs, and Weapon.... and you wont believe the difference. Upgrading your combat arts help a lot too.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>wow thanks.</P> <P>I appreciate that.</P> <P>is there a definitive post on AA's, AP, AE and CA's<BR></P>

[Randell44]

AA- Achievment abilities.  Entire forum on em CA- Combat art.  These are melee skills like kick.  Share a forums with spells i believe. AP-  Achievement points.  Used to get AA. AE-  Area effect also used as AOE area of effect.  Something that hits an entire area, or effects multiple targets. <div></div>

[Snikey]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Snikey wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> There was a monk that asked about getting increased DPS and Utility, and the devs respose was "So you want to be a scout?".</BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Blackguard wrote:<BR> <P><BR>My translation of one Monk's question ("So the question was, can you make my Monk a Scout?")</P> <P></P> <HR> <P></P></BLOCKQUOTE>LOL was funny... whole room was cracking up<BR></DIV><p>Message Edited by Snikey on <span class=date_text>04-11-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:24 PM</span>

[Belce]

I am lvl 57 and can easily solo lvl 47 and 48 ^^^, they are green to me of course, but I do well enough to consider a just blue encounter.  CA's are adept 1 except for master 2 choices in taunts and an adept 3 single taunt.  For equipment I have mainly cobalt with a couple of treasured items (helmet and bracers), I use a treasured shield and an ebon war hammer, dps rating 33.  I buff to start with offensive stance, bind wounds and pull with a mitigation debuff hex doll, lvl 50 legendary, shield bash and then belly slam.  I do my alpha strike of big damage CA's like that.  Roughly speaking I do about an additional 47% of my normal damage during this initial stage and that is with all of my big hits taking advantage of that.  Considering that this takes out the mob for a few seconds as well is more than enough to put me over the edge in the dps race. 

[Randell44]

HEHE when i get my AA it will be more or less the opposite.  You get some burst dps.  I get better dmg over time. <div></div>

[Prothos]

I have alot of friends that are guardians and they solo just fine and do not complain.  Your not going to solo as well as a summoner.

[mastersard]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Prothos wrote:<BR> I have alot of friends that are guardians and they solo just fine and do not complain.  Your not going to solo as well as a summoner.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>We dont want to.  We want to solo as well as another Fighter (brawler).  I solo okay.  Painfully slow, but it gets done.  All we're asking for is to be able to solo equally, compared to a clss in the same tree.  We've been asking and asking and asking for "That Something To Make Guardians Something Other Than A Tank."  That's DPS and (un-broken) utility.

[drizzt12]

<P>Hello, i am a level 53 Guardian and i have practically no problem soloing whatsoever. I got called down to nagafen the other day because my guild is going to be doing prismatic quest. After going in and talking to nagafen i came out and saw a lvl 49 ^^^ blue fire giant. My mitigation is 60% and avoidance 60% all vs lvl 53. So, i thought what the heck i am going to try and kill this mob. My agi str and sta are all 200+ i have 5400hp and 2500 power. All of my gear is legendary except for my chest leg and hands which are all fabled. So i guess i am very well geared. And so i proceed to take out the mob. Thats a blue ^^^ fire giant lvl 49. I dont know if i was lucky or what, but i was able to take out 3 more before i ended up dying to a lvl 50 ^^^. I have never had a problem soloing. I guess i am one of the few that doesnt.</P> <P>Choppin Headsoff</P> <P>53 Ogre Guardian</P> <P><Vexare></P> <P>Permafrost Server</P>

[Randell44]

Yeah but the reason you can solo is because you have pretty good gear.  That typically does not happen till later lvls after most guardian's have burnt out because of earlier solo problems. Like i said I CAN solo.  I just think we need a small boost.  Not big, DEFINITELY NOT brawler lvl, but small boost. <div></div>

[Blakeavon]

but its the same with every class thread... i cant solo, solo'ing is slow, we need just a bit more... but honestly it comes down to the skills of the players. i ahve seen some people with standard gear kick some serious butt and i have seen a few people wearing alll uber gear panic and run for the hills when easierly that could have defended the menice.i only problem i have with solo'ing is the lack of a decent power pool. i do have some ebon gear now but i am finding other than looking a lot cooler... i have similarproblems. but in soling its matter of reflexes and skill and less on the mechanics. knowing when to usa DoT style attack or when best to use shield bash to buy you just enough time to gain a little power back to complete HO

[Randell44]

Yeah except like every other fighter class has a decent amount of a differance in solo ability, and though guardians are preffered raid tankers the others are easily comparable tanks in the other 90% of the game. We are really not comparable soloers I don't think. <div></div>

[Delil]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> drizzt1218 wrote:<BR> <P>Hello, i am a level 53 Guardian and i have practically no problem soloing whatsoever. I got called down to nagafen the other day because my guild is going to be doing prismatic quest. After going in and talking to nagafen i came out and saw a lvl 49 ^^^ blue fire giant. My mitigation is 60% and avoidance 60% all vs lvl 53. So, i thought what the heck i am going to try and kill this mob. My agi str and sta are all 200+ i have 5400hp and 2500 power. All of my gear is legendary except for my chest leg and hands which are all fabled. So i guess i am very well geared. And so i proceed to take out the mob. Thats a blue ^^^ fire giant lvl 49. I dont know if i was lucky or what, but i was able to take out 3 more before i ended up dying to a lvl 50 ^^^. I have never had a problem soloing. I guess i am one of the few that doesnt.</P> <P>Choppin Headsoff</P> <P>53 Ogre Guardian</P> <P><Vexare></P> <P>Permafrost Server</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR> </P> <P>Oh so you are kind of tooled out. I'm still trying to gather enough money to tool myself up. Not everyone has the ability to obtain fable equiptment or be all lengendary geared. So a little tunning on the class is needed. It's so annoying that people that have no life and have a huge guild to get them fable items are the only ones that can solo and are comenting that no change is needed. Only the casual players that like and enjoy every aspect of the game are the ones that notice this disadvantage. </P> <P>Let be realistic about what's going on here don't choose sides open your eyes and see the big picture. Guadians need to be able to solo better and other classes need to be able to tank better. I believe that was the intention of the post, it wasn't a rank of Guardians need to be the all powerfull ones.</P></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Crim001]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Delilie wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P> </P> <P>Oh so you are kind of tooled out. I'm still trying to gather enough money to tool myself up. Not everyone has the ability to obtain fable equiptment or be all lengendary geared. So a little tunning on the class is needed. It's so annoying that people that <STRONG>have no life</STRONG> and have a huge guild to get them fable items are the only ones that can solo and are comenting that no change is needed. Only the casual players that like and enjoy every aspect of the game are the ones that notice this disadvantage. </P> <P>Let be realistic about what's going on here don't choose sides open your eyes and see the big picture. Guadians need to be able to solo better and other classes need to be able to tank better. I believe that was the intention of the post, it wasn't a rank of Guardians need to be the all powerfull ones.</P></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I resent that......<img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Having good gear (which is what a guard relies on) doesn't remove the problem, it just makes it easier to ignore.<BR>

[Waung]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sirlutt wrote:<BR>and secondly.. if thats how its supposed to be then yes our solo ability needs some loving... a damage shield would be pefect I think..<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>i think that'd be pretty cool, cept make it a % chance to proc a short duration damage shield not on yourself, but on your target (if PC) or target's target (if mob).  that'd give offensive stance some nice use and be able to do damage all the time, tanking or no.  not really sure how this would be in line with a guardian, but it's still a nice idea.<BR>

[Ladicav]

<P>You can't discount having good gear and chewing someone out because they can solo ok with good gear. That attitude is totally wrong. Gear to a Guardian is critical. Gear to a Guardian is everything. A Guardian who chases good gear to be able to solo better is doing the right thing. People who hang crap on them for it are the ones who aren't getting it. Gear, gear, gear. Read it, learn it, understand it.</P> <P>When I used to play EQ2, I found out by tests and parses that gear, is a Guardians number 1 priority. If you want to solo it is even more so. If you have trouble soloing, drop everything else you are doing and get better gear. If you have neither the time nor the patience to farm to get that gear, then you won't be soloing very well. That right there is the tradeoff. Complaining on the Guardian forums about your lack of gear, isn't going to make you solo any better. Do or do not. Those are your 2 simple choices.</P> <P>At level 52, right before I quit, I was parsing myself soloing Anaz Mal Maulers, <EM><STRONG>level 53 ^^ yellow con heroics</STRONG></EM>. I was killing them just fine, with no external help, no external buffs and no taking of potions etc. Just my gear and my Guardian abilities. I had no fabled gear whatsoever. It was all cobalt and legendary stuff and my spells were of adept 3 quality for most of them. I never posted the very final parses of these battles because well, EQ2 just ended up being a steaming p.o.s.for me anyway in the end and my care factor ended up becoming zero. But I did post tons of parses previous to this with myself soloing yellow cons.</P> <P>Maybe the older members on this forum would remember.</P>

[Gungo]

I remeber you landiclav and your posts. Fighters are the most reliant on gear compared to any class its the nature of the character. Hence why guilds try to upgrade thier guards first. Its the nature of the beast and the game is designed by that simple fundemental.

[Numinor]

<DIV>My point wasn't to whine about my lack of good gear (at 37th, I'm in full feysteel, although I'm still working on a good weapon upgrade), it was about that nefarious creature... balance.  If the game is modified to an extent that all fighter classes tank BigUglyNastyMob_001 just as well as I do in equivalent gear, balance would dictate that I am able to solo, in equivalent gear, as efficiently as they do.  This would be necessary as my high group demand would by default decline by such a change.  Currently, I am the best choice to tank BigUglyNastyMob_001, and the avoidance tanks are still welcome in the group as they have better damage output.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now, to repost the above in character (I am after all a big, dumb barbarian warrior, I only know 36 things...)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I call your momma names and you hit me.  Them guys wanna call your momma names and you hit them, I wanna hit like them then, cuz all I'm good at really is callin your momma names and havin you hit me.  I'm real good at that though!  Oh, and my momma wears STEEL TOED combat boots.</DIV>

[Terron]

<blockquote><hr>Ladicav wrote:<div></div><p> If you want to solo it is even more so. If you have trouble soloing, drop everything else you are doing and get better gear. If you have neither the time nor the patience to farm to get that gear, then you won't be soloing very well. That right there is the tradeoff. </p><hr></blockquote>It is a bad trade off, We should not have to do the boring farming to get to the fun soloing. EQ2 is not real life. It is a game, so everything should be fun. (Note that fun <> easy). Soloing has improved gradually over the last few months. I think only a little more is needed. The worst bit about being a guardian this month was getting to level 48 and finding that all I got was an upgrade to a line I have never found a use for (Sentry). It was almost as bad as finding that all I got for level 20 was Sentinel. Levels 49 and 50 were much better.<div></div>

[uux]

<div><blockquote>SGhost wrote:Our DPS is so slow that if there is a healer in the group we're fighting, we often get our butts handed to us.  I'm a fairly decently equipped level 70 Guardian and if I pull a solo group or mob with a healer, I tend to just run for it.  I cannot even begin to keep up with the healing and I'll run out of power before the mobs are dead.  The same can go if the mob is one with a lot of HP - I run out of power long before it's dead.</blockquote>Regarding healer type mobs, by level 20 you have 3 skills that can interrupt the healer's casting.   Your single target taunt, shield bash, and knee break.  The recast timers are quick enough that if a mob is healing that much it's your own fault.<blockquote>Regardless, I do agree with the general consensus that if other fighters can solo better /and/ can tank just as well (as they keep crying they should be able to do), then we need help in the soloing department for balance sake.</blockquote>As a berserker (aka other fighter), I have to rely on knowing my abilities to solo well.  I have to interrupt casters and healers, etc.  Spamming combat arts usually doesn't cut it.  I have a self haste and DPS buff, proc on offensive stance, and every 3 minutes I can do damage comparable to a lazy scout or warlock.  It helps, but it doesn't negate the fact that I have to play the abilities at my disposal as they were meant to be used.</div>

[Barakuz]

<DIV>The only reason Guardian soloing has improved in the past months is because of AA's.</DIV> <DIV>I thought the intent of AA's was to provide some alternative flavours to a given class type i.e. options for a class that allow you to differentiate your toon in a given class based on your playing preference.</DIV> <DIV>However, AA's for Guards are  a "Band Aid" to allow us to semi-effectively (snooze fest) solo.</DIV> <DIV>Isn't that wonderful and very fair of the devs...thanks a bunch.</DIV> <DIV>Every other class gets to have fun with their AA's, we theorise and argue about the best ways to eeek out a bit of extra dps, if your not functioning as a Raid Tank...in other words for the 0.2% of the game content.</DIV> <DIV>So if SOE want to bring the other fighter classes up so that they can effectively tank against 99.98% of the content (cept for Raids) how about making the Guardians dps equal 99.98% of that of the other Tank classes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Unfortunately the devs don't even follow up on their previous commitments to review the disparity between the fighter classes...they hold onto the mantra of "Guards are the best raid tanks...so there"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yes we are gear dependant, always have been - no one has an issue with that.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyway this is my view on the situation.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Barakuzz lvl 64 Guardian - Kithicor</DIV><p>Message Edited by Barakuz on <span class=date_text>04-27-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:59 PM</span>

[Wasuna]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> uux wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>SGhost wrote:<BR>Our DPS is so slow that if there is a healer in the group we're fighting, we often get our butts handed to us.  I'm a fairly decently equipped level 70 Guardian and if I pull a solo group or mob with a healer, I tend to just run for it.  I cannot even begin to keep up with the healing and I'll run out of power before the mobs are dead.  The same can go if the mob is one with a lot of HP - I run out of power long before it's dead.<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>Regarding healer type mobs, by level 20 you have 3 skills that can interrupt the healer's casting.   Your single target taunt, shield bash, and knee break.  The recast timers are quick enough that if a mob is healing that much it's your own fault.<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Regardless, I do agree with the general consensus that if other fighters can solo better /and/ can tank just as well (as they keep crying they should be able to do), then we need help in the soloing department for balance sake.<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>As a berserker (aka other fighter), I have to rely on knowing my abilities to solo well.  I have to interrupt casters and healers, etc.  Spamming combat arts usually doesn't cut it.  I have a self haste and DPS buff, proc on offensive stance, and every 3 minutes I can do damage comparable to a lazy scout or warlock.  It helps, but it doesn't negate the fact that I have to play the abilities at my disposal as they were meant to be used.<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Bull crap. Your coming here telling us that the answer to all our problems is that we need smarter people playing the Guardian class? You really think that the entire Guardian population are stupid [Removed for Content]?<BR>

[uux]

<div></div><div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Wasuna wrote:<div></div>Bull crap. Your coming here telling us that the answer to all our problems is that we need smarter people playing the Guardian class? You really think that the entire Guardian population are stupid [Removed for Content]?<hr></blockquote>Wow.  Where in the world did you get that out of what I wrote?  You have the ability to interrupt healers and casters.  If you're not using those abilities, I have no doubt you can't keep up.  Do you think the other classes just run up and autoattack mobs without any effort?   I didn't say it was the answer to all your problems either.  However, you have a solution to deal with casters and healers.  I have no doubt now that you are the most ignorant person I've ever met.  You've never read a single post of mine.  You see that I do not play a guardian and you get upset.  I've posted multiple times now that I agree guardian soloability is terrible.  I guess that is bull crap too, now that you realize I agree with it.To exaggerate my point, I could wear armor, but I don't see why I should have to.</div><p>Message Edited by uux on <span class=date_text>04-28-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:13 AM</span>

[Owa]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV><BR><FONT size=2>Don't take it personally, Uux. Pretty much the same five fellers have been posting pretty much the same stuff since LU13</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>Trying to understand, empathise or even agree with 'em merely produces the same paranoid hostility.</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P><FONT size=2>Frankly these are just people who don't like their class. They don't like the fact that they have the lowest DPS of the fighter tree, that they lack FD and that their AoEs are less powerful than Zerkers. They don't think their advantages outweigh their disadvantages. No doubt there's five or six of the same sort of people on the Troubadour boards, for instance, who feel cheated that Assassins are so much better in PvP or have better critical hits or whatever. Then again, the large majority of Bards like the fact that they're the best buffers of the Scout tree and are always welcome in groups. There's Brawlers who continue to complain 'cause they can't tank raid mobs like Guardians. Again, <EM>most </EM>Brawlers are happy with their role of Tank/DPS.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2><EM>Every</EM> class has its gripes and complaints but basically if you're not enjoying your class, if all you can see is its limits and not its advantages, <EM>then it's not the one for you</EM>. </FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2>We all know that class descriptions at launch were misleading; we all know that the game has changed massively since then. Sticking with a character you don't like because it looked good 14 months ago isn't a compelling argument.  I myself played three different fighter classes before I found the one I was happiest with and suited my temperament and playstyle. There's things I don't like about it - but overall I feel the advantages outweigh the disadvantages. This is how most people feel about their favourite class. If you just don't enjoy being a Guardian, and all the good and bad stuff that that entails, there's plenty of others to choose from  - and you can level up so quickly these days that starting a new toon is hardly an obstacle. </FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2>However, the fact is that most Guardians I have played with like their class just fine. They know they have the best 'tanking tools' and could care less about anything else. Because of these 'tanking tools' - unmatched aggro management and mitigation - every guild heaves a sigh of relief when their Guardian logs on - <EM>now</EM> we can go and take on the tough stuff. These Guardians clearly enjoy their job.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2>Moreover, most classes prefer having a Guardian tank - ask 'em. Healers prefer it for obvious reasons, DPS prefer it 'cause they can go nuts without worrying about getting aggro and other fighters - unless they have ego problems - are more than happy to let the Tanker's Tank take over when the going gets tough. As a Bruiser I can tank some fairly tough mobs if I have to - but the group works a lot more efficiently and we can defeat much harder targets if I switch to DPS/MA and let the Guardian do his thing. </FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2>If you're a Guardian who doesn't get that kind of response and respect from your group mates or guildies - and you can't play without seeing plots and iniquity every way you turn -  it's not the class. It's you.</FONT></P></DIV><p>Message Edited by annaspider on <span class=date_text>04-28-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:12 AM</span>

[Wabit]

<P>i think the biggest issue with soloing for most is that an even con no arrow is supposed to be beatable to a PC in player made gear, with app4 CAs...  that just doesn't work for guardians...</P>

[Sirlutt]

<div><blockquote><hr>Wabit wrote:<div></div> <p>i think the biggest issue with soloing for most is that an even con no arrow is supposed to be beatable to a PC in player made gear, with app4 CAs...  that just doesn't work for guardians...</p><hr></blockquote>absoloutly agree.. i have ok gear.. nothing like yours (bastage - you make me sad when i see you out and about.. LOL) .. but it'd be really hard for me to fight an even con mob with average gear ... the annoying part is i know other classes wouldnt have an issue.  Its frustrating to see a named 69 ^^^ that at 67 I can barely tank in a group get solo'd with ease by a lvl 70 Wizard.. that just should not happen, but it does all the time.  Wizard roots shouldnt be so effective if my solo mitigation cant make me last long enough with my DPS to kill the same mob.  my Mit+DPS is supped to enable me to stand toe to toe with something long enough to take it out.  same as the wizards root/DPS/cloth is supposed to make the outcome roughly similar, just in a different method.  Its not working though.On the flip side we tank groups and a particularly raids very well so its a give and take.. </div>