Buckler Reversal - How does it work?

[ThramFalc]

<div>Is it a 1 shot thing or does it do damage for every parry riposte etc... would it work with the 12 seconds of parry in the AGI line?</div><div> </div><div>It looks like it could be really good or really bad but I can't tell which...</div>

[R]

<div></div>Drops after it triggers once.

[ThramFalc]

<div></div>Wow.  So its pretty useless...

[Terron]

From test update 21b- Warrior: Buckler Reversal is now a toggled ability that refreshes itself automatically.<div></div>

[Allurana]

<div></div><div>I have Buckler Reversal 3 right now and am very pleased with it so far.  It probably helps that I never had a tower shield to begin with.  The best shield I had until I earned the ability was the Shiny Brass Shield and I never used it.  I was dual wield with offensive on constantly.</div><div> </div><div>I typically 2 box with my templar.  I keep my guardian and templar levels the same all the time.</div><div> </div><div>I am not a parser so you will hear by gut impressions here.</div><div> </div><div>Before I had Buckler Reversal it would take me FOREVER to kill anything.  Guardian/Templar combo is probably the absolute WORST DPS combo in the entire game.  But I have a lot of fun with it.  I can take on a lot of encounters and can survive adds like no one's business.</div><div> </div><div>Once I earned BR1, I noticed that fights were significantly shorter.  (once again, no hard data just impressions).  With each rank extra rank of BR I earned (2 and 3), it improved again at a noticable rate.  The times I really notice it is when fighting blues or lower as well as multiple mob encounters.  I almost never have an instance where I activate the ability and have it remain unresolved by the time the 30 seconds expire.  It fires nearly every time, no matter what con mob I am fighting.</div><div> </div><div>Now with the announcement of the change in LU21, I am even happier with my choice.  Please SOE release LU21 now. haha.  With it auto-refreshing the "buff" I can reclaim my hotbar slot for an additional damage CA that I lost room for when making my BR hotkey.  It will also be much more efficient because I will no longer have the minor time delay that it takes for my human reflexes to refresh the buff.  Also I noticed that it would come up to be refreshed while I was in the middle of casting a big CA like Tremor and thus lowering its effectiveness.</div><div> </div><div>I am actually very confused why so many guardians on these boards have outright deemed the STA line a complete waste of time.  I know that I am not a "raider" so I do not possess that perspective BUT the final ability in that line is unmistakably one of the best abilities for the guardian considering their current state.</div><div> </div><div>Guardian ARE undeniably broken.  Our effectiveness is questionable on many levels.  A solution is available and elegantly simple.  Our power costs are TOO high for our CA's.  I run out of power WAY faster than every other class in the game.  Our power consumption is VERY NOTICEABLY wrong.</div><div> </div><div>So considering all known factors about the game and SOE and guardians.  The STA line is the best chance for players to effect this discrepancy.  Reducing my power costs of all CA by 8% accross the board will be HUGE.  I don't need my taunts to work better, I don't need higher DPS, etc...  I just need to not run out of power after the FIRST mob which I do every single time without fail.  SOE fixed the mobs so they don't mana burn like they used to every fight, but they haven't addressed Guardians.  The mob fix was to make it so the mobs didn't chain cast all their spells instantly at the beginning of the fight.  Guardians are completely and utterly USELESS when they are out of power.  Our DPS is so laughable that our CA's are really our only way of maintaining aggro.</div><div> </div><div>Let me tell you my typical experience when grouped with others.  As Guardian, I will pull a multiple mob encounter (multiple ^^ and ^^^ heroics) to set initial aggro and start off with my encounter taunts and AOE damage to try and get a decent amount of hate generated right away (as you can guess, a huge power loss from that alone).  By the time the first mob is dead, I am typically out of power.  This will leave the remaining mobs that I need to try to maintain aggro on without the benefit of any of my taunts.  Most of the other classes will have been using encounter wide or AOE abilities through the death of the first mob which normally will make them close to equal on the hate list as me at that point.  So at mob 2 and up of the encounter, they can pull aggro super easy.  Trying to get others to use single target only abilities while grouped and pulling multi-mob encounters is like asking them to fight with one hand tied behind their back.  Does SOE really intend for groups to HAVE to scale back their abilities THAT MUCH just to make up for the Guardian manaburning problem?  I know they have stated they want people to learn to play together in groups and learn to control their aggro but having a guardian with no power leaves them with ZERO options.  It appears that SOE has decided to "teach" DPS classes to control their aggro by making Guardians suck.  I am sure that was not actually intended but how else can you reasonably justify our lack of everything.</div><div> </div><div>Sorry I didn't intend this to turn into a huge rant but rather my opinion of the STA line and my guesses as to how effective it will finally make my Guardian.</div><div> </div><div>Thank you SOE for the final STA line ability.  I look forward to earning it.  I am just hopeful that I am not wrong in my guess as to how it will help fix my Guardian to being usefull like the rest of the classes in the game and not make me manaburn myself on the first mob of every encounter.</div><div> </div><div>Allurana, Level 55 Guardian</div><div>Guild Founder and Leader of Smell The Roses</div><div>Ms. Qeynos 2004, 2005 and 2006</div><div>Blackburrow</div><p>Message Edited by Allurana on <span class="date_text">03-13-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:11 AM</span></p>

[ThramFalc]

<div></div><p>So I cast it and then it does damage when i parry/block etc or get parried blocked etc. and then it goes away... So its like another attack with a 30 second refresh?  That does seem very good.</p><p>Having it autorefresh is better but its still only going off at most once every 30 seconds...</p><p>Am I missing something here?</p>

[R]

<div>Theoretically it is about 500dmg every 30 seconds at 70 with 400str(as long as you parry/block etc).</div><div> </div><div>It's not the best thing in the world but its a lil' extra damage. Nothing to wow over, its just a decent skill.</div>

[Sir_Halbarad]

The problems I have with the buckler line is:+ I have not yet seen a buckler with tank stats+ When soloing, I think you are still better dps with dual wield and/or 2handers+ When grp tanking, I still think you are better off with Tower Shield and the STA AA points spent in WIS Line.Just 2 cents.<div></div>

[aislynn00]

<div></div>You're not missing anything, but an interesting question would be, does the attack miss or is it simply damage applied directly to the mob?  If the effect applied its damage directly, it would effectively constitute an irresistible (minor) taunt every 30 - 40 seconds, something which would be very interesting when fighting orange-conning mobs, which are notoriously hard to hit/taunt.

[aislynn00]

<div></div><blockquote><p></p><hr><p>Sir_Halbarad wrote:</p><p>+ When grp tanking, I still think you are better off with Tower Shield and the STA AA points spent in WIS Line.Just 2 cents.</p><p></p><hr></blockquote>Of course you spend your points first on the wisdom line--it boosts mitigation, after all--but then what?  I am still undecided between agility and stamina.

[Allurana]

<div></div><p>I have been monitoring this ability pretty close for a while now and I have never seen the damage be resisted OR be partially mitigated.  It hits for full (within the stated range) damage everytime it does resolve.</p><p>So yes, it is a semi-"guaranteed" damage hit every 30 seconds.  If fighting an orange con mob it will likely fire off instantly upon applying the buff since there are so many dodges, parrys and repostes when fighting those mobs.  So it is then just a matter of waiting out the 30 seconds until it refreshes and with LU21 it will refresh on its own.</p><p>Also Sony has stated that they are changing a lot of the lower tiered equipment to match the "system/design" of the tier 7 crafted geart.  Crafted buckler sheilds do in fact have fighter stats at tier 7 so once the crafting revamp goes in 100% the lower tier bucklers will start to be able to be made with fighter stats.  They said they will not be adjusting crafted gear already in the game before the revamp so no need to panic.</p><p>I do agree that bucklers are horrible when compared to kite or tower shields and I wish they would at least allow kite shields to be used with the STA line but I am still liking my choice of STA line and look forward to reaching the end of it.</p><p>Hope they have it fixed by time I get there.</p><p>Allurana, level 56 Guardian</p><p>Blackburrow</p>

[Sir_Halbarad]

<span><blockquote><hr>aislynn00 wrote:<div></div><blockquote><p></p><hr><p>Sir_Halbarad wrote:</p><p>+ When grp tanking, I still think you are better off with Tower Shield and the STA AA points spent in WIS Line.Just 2 cents.</p><p></p><hr></blockquote>Of course you spend your points first on the wisdom line--it boosts mitigation, after all--but then what?  I am still undecided between agility and stamina.<hr></blockquote>Do you? I go the AGI Line first, 12s parry for the win <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span><div></div>

[aislynn00]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Sir_Halbarad wrote:<span>Do you? I go the AGI Line first, 12s parry for the win <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span><div></div><hr></blockquote><p>Or...12 sec auto-parry without taunts, combat arts, auto-attack, or reactive hate procs for the virtually guaranteed aggro loss on raids.</p><p>The time when you really need damage invulnerability is on the pull, before the mob has been debuffed, and Tsunami-esque abilities obviously don't work in that case, considering the tenuous hate lead the guardian has managed to acquire with a couple of taunts.  Try Tower of Stone and the Guardian Sphere line instead.</p><p>Mitigation, on the other hand, is guaranteed, remains in effect at all times, doesn't reduce your hate generation in the least, and doesn't impair mobility.</p><p>As for the second-to-last ability of the agility line, that much-lauded defense bonus is really pointless when many guardians, yours truly included, are able to self-buff beyond what appears to be the defense hard cap.</p><p>Bottom line, while there are situations in which Tsunami-like abilities could save the day, they aren't particularly common, and I, for one, certainly don't consider the payoff worth about half my AA points.</p>

[Allurana]

<div></div><p>I have to agree but for more generic reasons.</p><p>My EQ experience has been that passive abilities are far and away more valuable and effective than triggered abilities.</p><p>I choose the STA line because of the final ability but I will also likely fill in the entire line to max because with LU21 every single one of the abilities will be passive.  That means they are no longer situational, they work all the time in every situation no matter what. </p><p>Now that is something I can really get on-board with. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Allurana, level 56 Guardian</p><p>Blackburrow</p>

[Sir_Halbarad]

<span><blockquote><hr>aislynn00 wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Sir_Halbarad wrote:<span>Do you? I go the AGI Line first, 12s parry for the win <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span><div></div><hr></blockquote><p>Or...12 sec auto-parry without taunts, combat arts, auto-attack, or reactive hate procs for the virtually guaranteed aggro loss on raids.</p><p>The time when you really need damage invulnerability is on the pull, before the mob has been debuffed, and Tsunami-esque abilities obviously don't work in that case, considering the tenuous hate lead the guardian has managed to acquire with a couple of taunts.  Try Tower of Stone and the Guardian Sphere line instead.</p><p>Mitigation, on the other hand, is guaranteed, remains in effect at all times, doesn't reduce your hate generation in the least, and doesn't impair mobility.</p><p>As for the second-to-last ability of the agility line, that much-lauded defense bonus is really pointless when many guardians, yours truly included, are able to self-buff beyond what appears to be the defense hard cap.</p><p>Bottom line, while there are situations in which Tsunami-like abilities could save the day, they aren't particularly common, and I, for one, certainly don't consider the payoff worth about half my AA points.</p><hr></blockquote>12 sec parry while stiffled isn't a guaranteed aggro loss.It is another way to let healers catch up after a damage spike. With the right announcing, you can even pull with it on hard mobs... Announce to wait for assists... Pop your two taunts, pop rescue, pop 12s parry... should give them enough time to do the debuffs. Remember healers dont generate heal aggro cause you parry... when debuffs are done, cancel the buff, announce to assist and off you go...And that is just one scenario.Another one would be to buy time after a damage spike.Mitigation gives you 36*8 = 288 when you put 8 points in it. That's 4% at Level 70, 3% at Level 80... 12 sec parry is always 12 sec parry.I will go for the wis line  / mitigation as well... but at the moment, I feel that a skill we do not have yet and that works even versus orange raid mobs (who laugh at 288 mitigation during spike damage) is more beneficial to me <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />But I can see the benefit of the  STA line as well, especially when I see a buckler who might be worth equipping... as it is, I see the sta line as the  solo/grp guard line with the agi line being the raid guard line and the wis line being the tank line <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span><div></div>

[aislynn00]

<div></div><blockquote><p></p><hr><p>Sir_Halbarad wrote:<span>12 sec parry while stiffled isn't a guaranteed aggro loss.</span></p><p><span><font color="#ff9900">I can't double-check this since I'm at work right now, but I am pretty certain Tsunami-like abilities--like the master ability of the agility line--don't just stifle you, they downright stun you.</font>It is another way to let healers catch up after a damage spike.</span></p><p><span><font color="#ff9900">Nobody is arguing that you wouldn't increase your survivability with the ability.  However, you would most likely still lose aggro during those 12 seconds with zero hate output, which drastically reduces the usefulness of the ability on raids.</font></span></p><p><span>With the right announcing, you can even pull with it on hard mobs... Announce to wait for assists... Pop your two taunts, pop rescue, pop 12s parry... should give them enough time to do the debuffs. Remember healers dont generate heal aggro cause you parry... </span></p><p><span><font color="#ff9900">No healing aggro is a good point.</font></span></p><p><span>when debuffs are done, cancel the buff, announce to assist and off you go...</span></p><p><span><font color="#ff9900">Again going by memory, I believe the description states you could drop the buff, but the most important of the debuff components (i.e., no combat arts can be used for 12 seconds) remains on you no matter what, so cancelling the buff isn't really much of an option.</font>Mitigation gives you 36*8 = 288 when you put 8 points in it. That's 4% at Level 70, 3% at Level 80... 12 sec parry is always 12 sec parry.</span></p><p><span><font color="#ff9900">That isn't correct.  The mitigation gained from the wisdom line scales with your level.  </font></span></p><p><span><font color="#ff9900">As I recall, I am currently seeing a 39 point bonus per ability rank at 70th; I didn't see quite that high a bonus at 69th.  In other words, your ranks in the mitigation ability will always provide you with a significant mitigation <em>percentage</em> bonus and not just a constant mitigation bonus which would become progressively less relevant as you level.</font>I will go for the wis line  / mitigation as well... but at the moment, I feel that a skill we do not have yet and that works even versus orange raid mobs (who laugh at 288 mitigation during spike damage) is more beneficial to me <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span></p><p><span><font color="#ff9900">No raid mobs who resort to physical attacks laugh at mitigation.  Mitigation is constant.  </font></span></p><p><span><font color="#ff9900">Yeah, you may take massive damage despite your mitigation, sometimes enough to one-shot you, but you would always take even more damage without your mitigation.  </font></span></p><p><span><font color="#ff9900">Resists are easy to max with the right equipment and buffs.  Therefore, mitigation, HP, and hate generation remain the three key elements any raid tanking guardian should always focus on improving.</font></span></p><hr></blockquote>

[Meinen]

<div></div>i have seen Buckler reversal resisted a couple of times and mobs that are immune to crushing are obviously immuned to it as well, found a named  today on Shattered Weir that was, very annoying. 

[sammythebull]

<div></div>sorta off topic but what are some of the better or at least adequate bucklers available for use at 65? The few interesting circular shields i've checked out have turned out to be round shields. thanks.

[Meinen]

<div></div>i had an imbued ebony buckler made.  I couldn't find anything better at the time, i hope that one drops, but i highly doubt that one will.