AA profile since KOS launch. How to spend to be the most defensive, best MT you can be.

[SkarlSpeedbu]

<div></div><div>If anyone would post the final AA lines I would appreciate it.  Also, since we have the finalized lines now, would everyone put in input on how they are going to spend their points.</div><div> </div><div>As the Great Philospher, Popeye once stated, "I yam what I yam, and thats all that I yam."  Meaning I know what I know, but I don't know what would be the best build for the best defensive MT.  Go the 3 tree route, building defense, parry and dodge/reposte 4 ranks each?  Go the max route to get the 12 sec auto parry ability (does this really stifle you? /sucks), and then go up on another?  Any info would help out, especially you hard number crunchers out there.</div><div> </div><div>Thanks and lets have a good discussion.</div><div> </div><div>Again, only post your builds for the most (in your opinion) defensive MT you can be.</div><div> </div><div>Please don't post dmg builds or balanced builds.</div><div> </div><div>Pleae, if you are going to post, "I'm not telling you how I'm spending points" posts....why even bother?</div><p>Message Edited by SkarlSpeedbump on <span class="date_text">02-22-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:58 AM</span></p>

[Aven Elonis]

<div></div><p>I think I'll be going wisdom (8/4/4/8/<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  (additonal +56 wisdom for resists, + 9.6% DPS, +272 Mig and remove all penalties from Def and Off Modes)</p><p>After that 8/0/0/0/0 for Agility and either Str or Sta.</p><p>Of course your mileage may vary. And I may change my mind on the above. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[AlawnGnome]

Unless they change the buckler requirement I wouldnt put any points into the sta line except for the first one if you want extra sta.  You end up losing more than you gain from the line.  The agi line gives defense, wis line gives mitigation, and int line gives parry.  Ill probably chose 2 of thos 3 lines.<div></div>

[SkarlSpeedbu]

<div></div><p>This is what I am thinking, and some of this is from a reply from aonein/Taemok who posted on the other AA thread, and some of what I am thinking. Bear with me.  I may make some mistakes but I am puttin my thinkin hat on (excuse me if I make a mistake, I was the kid that sniffed glue in the back of the class in high school <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />).</p><p>1.  Dragon Reflexes is useless, if we are stiffled because we can't taunt or use any rescue or any control ability.  Agree? Disagree?</p><p>2.  if you spend the 4/4/4/8 method on 2 paths and considering agi/wis and int are the best ways to go, which has more weight to our ability to MT?  Mitigation/wis path?  Parry/int path?  or Agililty/Defense path?  BTW as of right now, 8 pts will = 320 mitigation or about 24% parry?? or about 24% defense.  Which one is the most advantageous of us to pick? As we can only get 2 of the 3.  I think we are going to get 9 pts left over as 1+20+20=41.  What would you spend the last 9pts on?  I am thinking defense and Mitigation.  put 4 more points on wisdom stats for resists, and 4 more points on agility for more dodgin'= one pt left over to spend frivolously.</p><p>3.  Would it be better to go a 4/4/4/4x3 path for wisdom, int and agility?  Would the conglomerate of all three of HALF the bonuses, be more advantageous then just picking 2 of the 3?    this would leave 1pt over also, to spend frivolously.</p><p>4.  Would just being a total stat hog and putting wisdom int and agility all to max ranks be viable? I guess int would raise parry? wis would raise resists and agility would raise avoidance?</p><p>Sorry if I made any errors, just thinking out loud and any inconsistency you see, please post and I will edit.</p>

[SkarlSpeedbu]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Aven Elonis wrote:<div></div><p>...and remove all penalties from Def and Off Modes)</p><hr></blockquote>Does the removal of the penalties off of our defensive stance help us tank better?  Do the penalties hinder our tanking?<p>Message Edited by SkarlSpeedbump on <span class="date_text">02-22-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:16 AM</span></p>

[Sir MadDog]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>SkarlSpeedbump wrote:<div>would everyone put in input on how they are going to spend their points.</div><div> </div><div>Again, only post your builds for the most (in your opinion) defensive MT you can be.</div><div> </div><div>Please don't post dmg builds or balanced builds.</div><hr></blockquote><p> </p><p>One of the reasons they brought the AA's into the game is so we can customize our Guardian's to how we play and to differentiate it to other Guardians.</p><p>I have a great plan on how I'm going to do mine but I'm keeping it to myself.  Sorry and I dont mean to sound like an azz but its just my way of trying to make mine a little differant from everyone elses.</p><p>I will say this though.... after spending my one AA on the starter which opens up the tree, I'm going to hold on to the rest of mine for awhile and not pick anything. The reason being is since its new to the game....you never know what maybe changed in a week or 2-3.   A couple of changes here and there maybe enough to change the path your going to take. </p><p>Think about it    SoE = changes/nurfs</p>

[Excedium]

<div>Well imagine being in defensive stance with the extra mitigation with no attack penalty. Id be in defensive stance all day, well or offensive hehe</div>

[SkarlSpeedbu]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Excedium wrote:<div>Well imagine being in defensive stance with the extra mitigation with no attack penalty. Id be in defensive stance all day, well or offensive hehe</div><hr></blockquote>I don't see how an attack penalty hinders defense/tanking...sorry.

[Lyrus]

It doesn't help with defense or Tanking, but it does help with agro control, especially on orange mobs. That's where the benifit will be the most transparent.<span><blockquote><hr>SkarlSpeedbump wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Excedium wrote:<div>Well imagine being in defensive stance with the extra mitigation with no attack penalty. Id be in defensive stance all day, well or offensive hehe</div><hr></blockquote>I don't see how an attack penalty hinders defense/tanking...sorry.<hr></blockquote></span><div></div>

[kingme]

<div></div><p>Aye.. Has someone confirm what Taemok has claim regarding the buckler req. is actually buckler, kite or tower? Would be awesome to know before someone, such as me, to waste AS points.. just to find out the hard way.</p><p>Thanks for the info...</p>

[SkarlSpeedbu]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>kingme99 wrote:<div></div><p>Aye.. Has someone confirm what Taemok has claim regarding the buckler req. is actually buckler, kite or tower? Would be awesome to know before someone, such as me, to waste AS points.. just to find out the hard way.</p><p>Thanks for the info...</p><hr></blockquote>This is off topic.

[AlawnGnome]

Well if they do fix it so tower shields work then the sta line would help you MT but if they dont then its a waste.<div></div>

[Aven Elonis]

<div></div><p>In a sense, yes. Generally I'm in Defensive mode when I'm MT on a raid. Removal of the attack penalty while in Def Mode, should allow me to do more damage and thus increase my ability to hold aggro.</p><p>With Reinforcement, the more times I hit, the better. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[SkarlSpeedbu]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Aven Elonis wrote:<div></div><p>In a sense, yes. Generally I'm in Defensive mode when I'm MT on a raid. Removal of the attack penalty while in Def Mode, should allow me to do more damage and thus increase my ability to hold aggro.</p><p>With Reinforcement, the more times I hit, the better. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><hr></blockquote><p>The increase is so incredibly small, it does not help.  I think someone on the boards roughly translated about 3 hate to 1 or 10 pts of dmg, but its really small compared to our taunts.  these are the hate getters. </p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Message Edited by SkarlSpeedbump on <span class="date_text">02-22-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:00 PM</span></p>

[SkarlSpeedbu]

<div></div><p>Im just going to post my OP again below :</p><p> </p><div>If anyone would post the final AA lines I would appreciate it.  Also, since we have the finalized lines now, would everyone put in input on how they are going to spend their points.</div><div> </div><div>As the Great Philospher, Popeye once stated, "I yam what I yam, and thats all that I yam."  Meaning I know what I know, but I don't know what would be the best build for the best defensive MT.  Go the 3 tree route, building defense, parry and dodge/reposte 4 ranks each?  Go the max route to get the 12 sec auto parry ability (does this really stifle you? /sucks), and then go up on another?  Any info would help out, especially you hard number crunchers out there.</div><div> </div><div>Thanks and lets have a good discussion.</div><div> </div><div>Again, only post your builds for the most (in your opinion) defensive MT you can be.</div><div> </div><div>Please don't post dmg builds or balanced builds.</div><div> </div><div>Please, again, just let the post die if you can't stay on topic.</div>

[Wabit]

<div></div><p>gonna go wis 4/4/4/8/8, str 4/4/4/8 and one point hanging out...</p><p>but if i had 50 points to use while lvling i'd go agi and int all the way then respec em to the tank option...</p><p>honestly i want the no penelty to my stance more for group/solo play...  and its more for the off stance than the def one...</p>

[Snikey]

<div>Does any other class have the ability Weaponshield (eq1 lingo) ? The 12 sec 100% parry.</div><div> </div><div>It was big time useful in EQ1 for initial pulling and positioning on big raid bosses.</div>

[Wabit]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Snikey wrote:<div>Does any other class have the ability Weaponshield (eq1 lingo) ? The 12 sec 100% parry.</div><div> </div><div>It was big time useful in EQ1 for initial pulling and positioning on big raid bosses.</div><hr></blockquote>monks tsunami...  its one of their ancient teachings i think...  on a 3 min recast

[SkarlSpeedbu]

<div></div><p>I think probably to be the most defensive, I will go the 8pts on mitigation and 8pts on defense route.  I read that parry isn't quite as helpful as these two.</p><p>Probably to spark discussion, the best way to get things going is to post what I think the best defensive way to go is.  Then feel free to shoot holes in this path <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[danmurph3]

The following concerns ONLY tanking, not solo or easy offensive type tanking.  (Although I like the one person's idea of using damage up until your 70 then respecing for raid tanking)I have to completely disagree with anyone who would point points into the INT line, I looked at it long and hard but I personally don't think it is worth it at all.  Now as far as I know and have researched, INT stat does nothing for us.  So in order to go the INT line route you have to waste 4 AAs on on the INT stat.  Then 4 more on a sword CA, and 4 more on a double attack or attack speed increase, now you can get the increase in parry and if you went one more thats the recast timer reducer.  All in all, that is not worth it for any defensive tank, the parry is not as important as Miti or possibly defense, and the recast timer reducer is nice but not neccessary to waste 13 points to get. The wisdom path is a good one, you need the Wisdom stat for resists and the mitigation is definately worth upgrading.  The final ability is only 1 point but for the defensive tank that 1 point is an increase of weapon skills by over 15.  That's not terrible but only if you have the 1 point to spare IMO, I would rather put that 1 point into the STA or AGI stat.So going Wisdom you could do a 4/4/4/8/0 for 20 points.Next line for a defensive tank should be the AGI line. Upgrading all the way to get the final ability, and making the DEF line go up to 8. So AGI like that would be 4/4/4/8/1 for 21 points.This leaves you with 9 points that would best be spent on the rest of the stats, mainly STA.I don't think the STR line is worth it for a defensive tank, even for the aggro control.  And of course STA is useless if its only for bucklers.I think this gives people a good set of defensive stats and some nice defensive lines, mainly the mitigation and defense, along with the 100% parry ability, even though it stifles you.  I wouldn't pull with it but would use it after having enough aggro.Obviously everyone will be different, thats the whole point ; )<div></div>

[Aven Elonis]

<div></div>The fifth skill on each line cost 8 pts for 1 level (and only 1 level is available)

[Wabit]

<div></div>i said the int line for group / solo...  the extra dps is nice on them...  and i usually do use a sword so its the best choice for that...  i haven't seen a decent hammer since t5, the buckler is just [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]...  str i'm way past capped in off stance and the AA's other than hate are weak...

[Bardweiser]

<div>I mainly solo with a 2HS (we have enough tanks in my guild that are pure defense), so I am going with the INT line for the extra haste.  From there, will probably add str, sta, and agi (but not sure yet as that's a long way off).</div>

[danmurph3]

I can agree that INT line could be useful when soloing or even just a tank that wants more DPS and such.  I was just posting about pure tanking, specifically raid MTing ; )My 60 Guard will be going pure raid mt setup with his AAs, but..My new zerker on the pvp server will be going full dps with his, might as well have some fun once in a while.<div></div>

[Magnethjelmen2]

I am gonna do the AGI line at the start, the last skille in that line is Awesome <span>:smileyvery-happy:</span><div></div>

[Sir_Halbarad]

Bind Wound 1 (no-brainer <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ) (1 Total)AGI 4/4/4/8/8 (29 Total)Defensive Boni: 12s parry buff / Defense +12WIS 4/4/4/8/0 (49 Total)Defensive Boni: Mitigation +2721 LefoverSTA Line could prove useful when there are good bucklers in KoS!But before that, that is the most defensive I think.<div></div>

[Mentin]

<div>In general the defensive skills are the 4th level ones. So to maximize defense you should look to put 8 points into two level 4's.</div><div> </div><div>I will be going agi 1/4/4/8/8, then 1/4/4/8/0 on one other line, probably wis for mitigation since sta sucks if it relly is buckler only.</div><div> </div><div>Parry is weak(er) because it is frontal only. Mitigation is 360 degrees, and in multi-mob bashes I usually end with some behind me.</div><div> </div>

[Shakir10]

<div></div><p>I am going down the Agi line full blown I think. I look at it this way, since Sony has such a crush on Monks/Bruisers then I may as well say, if I can't beat them, join them. Get that 12 second I'm a Monk ability. Pluss the defense is nice</p><p> </p>

[TanRaistlyn]

<div></div><div>To the OP, you said a couple times the Final AGI skill seems worthless when tanking cuz your "stifled" for the 12 seconds...I can assure you, if you plan on being a MT in T7 zones for raids, this ability will be a necessary.  You still can hold agro with rescue before you use this ability, and as long as your dps doesnt go crazy this is 12 seconds of free damage on a mob and time for healers to debuff/regen with.  Also having a couple tanks with this ability (including monks with tsunami) you can use rescue to rotate your Tanks in to take 12 seconds of free damage having each of them burn their skill.  (Crusaders also get a version of this skill in their AAs).  Also your crusaders get a Tuant of Time ability, they can use this, coupled with amends and burn their ability to hold agro, just as well as our MD line does.</div><div> </div><div>You can rest assured Mitigation will still be extremely important, but during raids a good well equipped guard can hit the mitigation stratosphere with his 30second buffs and good grp setups.</div><div> </div><div>Also an added benefit to the AGI is huge dps increases in small grp settings with you PBAOE and AOE Auto attack in that line.  Pull 6-7 blue/white mobs and aoe away, amazing experience.</div><p>Message Edited by TanRaistlyn on <span class="date_text">03-01-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:36 PM</span></p>

[mastersard]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>TanRaistlyn wrote:<div>You still proc your tuants from MD line...<hr></div></blockquote>HTL doesn't proc off parry.  If we parry 100% for 12 second, and are stifled, we can't taunt, and HTL will not proc.

[Rah]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Sir_Halbarad wrote:Bind Wound 1 (no-brainer <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ) (1 Total)AGI 4/4/4/8/8 (29 Total)Defensive Boni: 12s parry buff / Defense +12WIS 4/4/4/8/0 (49 Total)Defensive Boni: Mitigation +2721 LefoverSTA Line could prove useful when there are good bucklers in KoS!But before that, that is the most defensive I think.<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>Going this route, WIS First</p><p>Rahge</p>

[oldusrf]

<div>I do not think the 12 sec parry agi AA is a free 12 sec break during a raid. Most raid mobs will probably cast some sort of spell, that you can't parry, it's a spell, but still useful</div>

[sammythebull]

<div>I can't imagine taking a 12 second break from taunting in a raid. I sometimes lose aggro after taking 4 seconds off to cast Wall and Commanding with a ToS in there, and that's after spamming adept III and master taunts for the first 3 minutes of a fight. Does anyone really think we can get away with taking that time off from taunting?</div><div> </div><div>I can't really see any point in it in any situation. Useless when soloing cuz if you use it to run away, you're not going to parry anything attacking you from behind. Useless in group/raid cuz you'll lose aggro, enflaming defense won't even proc while it's up cuz you won't be getting hit. I'm just not very excited about it at all.</div>

[Allurana]

<div></div><p>I can confirm that the Tier 3 STA line ability is buckler only.  I am going to experiment with it more before making any final conclusions.</p><p>Allurana, 54 Guardian</p><p>Blackburrow</p>

[Katur]

<div></div>can we not fire reinforcement then fire parry? ... seems to me that should hold agro fine

[Sir_Halbarad]

Reinforcement procs on an attack. Doesn't work with Parry.<div></div>

[Katur]

<div></div>I am completely aware that reinforcement procs off melee attacks at a 100% chance... That does not change the fact that while stifled you can still execute melee attacks , and thus stay at the top of the hate list i would presume.

[Noah]

<div>Wis (20)- 4/4/4/8</div><div> </div><div>Agi (29)- 4/4/5/8/8</div><div> </div><div>Cant resist 12 second immunity when something spikes wrong.  Mit, def, immunity, resists, frontal AE proc, and bonus dps to boot!.</div><div> </div><div> </div>

[Wabit]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Katur wrote:<div></div>I am completely aware that reinforcement procs off melee attacks at a 100% chance... That does not change the fact that while stifled you can still execute melee attacks , and thus stay at the top of the hate list i would presume.<hr></blockquote><p>i don't hit orange epics all that much even when they are fully debuffed...  maybe 1 in 5 on average i'll hit with autoattack...  1 sec delay for auto attack speed is 12 chances to hit while stiffled...</p><p>i think you'd be better off hitting rescue the the 100% parry...</p><p>i haven't seen the t7 raids yet, so if its a straight fight without memblurs the it might be a viable skill... </p><p>for bad damage spikes i have ToS...  the 12 sec stiffle really bothers me...  wizzys have 2 skills that read over 6k damage to me with 12 int...  get them raid buffed they'll be hitting for 20K+ (one of ours already has the icenova M1 and the 65 skill M1)...  thats why i'm doing the hate line...</p>

[TanRaistlyn]

<div></div><p>There are many ways to continue to hold agro while those 12 seconds tick off.  A good raid force, with good intelligent players wont have a problem.  The 12 second 100percent parry will be huge for raiding, ask any guards out there already using it, it rocks and I love it.</p><p>Also opens up possibilities for multi tanking raid mobs...a pally casts rescue then uses their version of that 12 second skill(which they do get), then after those 12 seconds are gone, a monk can use rescue and use his tsunami, then a sks skill, and so on and so forth.  A good MT chain using rescue will be real fun on a lot of different raids, just be warry of AoEs will be all.</p>

[Eet]

<div></div><p>Since you're going to be parrying everything anyway you could switch to offensive stance right before triggering Reinforcement and Reflexes, so you can hit the mob easy. A warden in the MT group would help with this, as would the final ability in our WIS line which removes the penalties from our stances.</p><p>The most defensive pull that would gain the best agro would probably look like:- Before pull, use offensive stance and Tower of Stone- Dirge casts Cacophony of Blades- Pull with rescue, hit Obliterate and a few other CA's for a few secs while ToS and wards absorb a few hits- Put Reinforcement up followed by Reflexes</p><p>That's like 15 seconds of taking damage from spells only, and some solid agro. Plus ToS at the beginning would eat any huge nuke like an AE.</p>