Is there a Guardian/Mystic wards problem

[Purcupile]

<div><div>Last night I was in a group where the MT 59 Guardian and a 59 Ranger were fussing at each other about the tank not holding aggro.  As I understand it the Guardians have a spell "Hold The Line" that does not work properly if the Mystic has any wards up.  The way it was explained to me, while killing clops (so I may not have understood it clearly) ...that Guardians Hold The line spell keeps aggro from the mob focused on the Guard unless the Mystic (I understand this only happens to Mystics, but could also apply to Defliers) ...the Mystic has wards up that prevent the hits getting through to the Guardian, thus he losses aggro.</div><div> </div><div>I don't think I explained this very clearly, but my question is what is a good approach to take when grouped with a Guardian to circumvent this situation.  Does this apply to Berserkers too?  I have always preferred these 2 classes for my MT.</div><div> </div><div>Purcupile</div></div>

[Baldaena]

<div></div><div></div><div>It's one of the main problems of guardians (with agro, mana consumption, dps, role in group when not MT and several other things)</div><div> </div><div>HTL is a reactive taunt, when we are hit, we have 50% chance to proc taunts.</div><div> </div><div>The pros :</div><div>==>It's working with any mobs who are hitting us (taunts on several encounters)</div><div> </div><div>The cons :</div><div>==> We need to be hit</div><div>==> it's useless with wards</div><div>==> it's useless with mez</div><div>==> blue/green mobs hit us less often</div><div>==> debuf mobs (all mobs after 10s) hit us less often</div><div>==> can be resisted</div><div> </div><div>Berserk have the same CA, it's only 25% but they have better agro.. so I assume that the CA is not as important as guardian's one</div><div> </div><div>The real question is : who was stealing agro ?</div><div>- if it's the healer : there are problem with the MT</div><div>- if it's the ranger (or other dps class), the ranger has to learn how to play, guardians are not as good as others fighters in "Snap Agro" and need more time to establish agro, but their "should" take lesser damage during fights...</div><div><span class="time_text"></span> </div><p>Message Edited by Baldaena on <span class="date_text">02-07-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:19 AM</span></p>

[Sirlutt]

absoloutly right ^^^HTL gets worse the more a Guardian is ward'd, or buffd for avoidance.  It relies on him taking damage to have a 50% chance to proc abc hate.The ranger should stop firing off his triple arrows and what not too earler.  Have him put in his agro arrow first, then his couple of debuffs, then slowly ramp up the damage.   The only Tank who can cope with a rangers intial damage spike is a Paladin because they were given ungodly agro management compared to other tanks via amends.<div></div>

[Tanit]

You get hit when you're warded though, just for 0 damage.<div></div>

[Lyrus]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Tanith_ wrote:You get hit when you're warded though, just for 0 damage.<div></div><hr></blockquote>For anything "reactive" to work, be it reactive hate, heals, or procs, they all require you to take at least 1 point of damage.</span></div>

[mastersard]

<div></div>To the OP, yes, their is a HUGE problem.  It affects you, the ward based healer, us the reactive hate gaining tank, and all those we group with.

[Sunrayn]

<div></div><p>Hehe, I mentored down to help some folks with CoD.  Had a mystic and a illusionist in the raid.</p><p>I tell the mystic, no wards.</p><p>Mystic:  Huh? No wards?  Why not?</p><p>Me:  Because, If I am warded, my hate generating self buff doesnt work.  I need the mobs to not only hit me but, also do some damage.</p><p>Mystic: Well....thats just dumb.</p><p>So, in we go, pull first group, illusionist mezzes everything hitting me.</p><p>Me: Dont mez</p><p>Illusionist:  What?</p><p>Me: Dont mez, I need to be getting hit, helps build aggro.  Same reason I cant be warded.</p><p>Illusionist:  Thats just stupid.</p><p>Mystic and Illusionist:  Well, what do you want us to do?</p><p>Me: Whatever it is you do best..but without mezzing or warding.....</p><p> </p><p>Sunrayn, 56 guard--Test</p><p> </p>

[Gungo]

<div></div>i think its more a ward bug then a guardian bug. Why well because wards put shamans at a distict disadvantage over all other healers  with a guard or zerker really moreso. Wards not only prevent HTL but it prevents armour proc, dam shields, etc. Truly wards need to be fixed to allow defensive buffs to proc but damage to be prevented.

[matinisback]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Sunrayn wrote:<div></div><p>Hehe, I mentored down to help some folks with CoD.  Had a mystic and a illusionist in the raid.</p><p>I tell the mystic, no wards.</p><p>Mystic:  Huh? No wards?  Why not?</p><p>Me:  Because, If I am warded, my hate generating self buff doesnt work.  I need the mobs to not only hit me but, also do some damage.</p><p>Mystic: Well....thats just dumb.</p><p>So, in we go, pull first group, illusionist mezzes everything hitting me.</p><p>Me: Dont mez</p><p>Illusionist:  What?</p><p>Me: Dont mez, I need to be getting hit, helps build aggro.  Same reason I cant be warded.</p><p>Illusionist:  Thats just stupid.</p><p>Mystic and Illusionist:  Well, what do you want us to do?</p><p>Me: Whatever it is you do best..but without mezzing or warding.....</p><p> </p><p>Sunrayn, 56 guard--Test</p><p> </p><hr></blockquote>[Removed for Content]

[Sirlutt]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Gungo wrote:<div></div>i think its more a ward bug then a guardian bug. Why well because wards put shamans at a distict disadvantage over all other healers  with a guard or zerker really moreso. Wards not only prevent HTL but it prevents armour proc, dam shields, etc. Truly wards need to be fixed to allow defensive buffs to proc but damage to be prevented.<hr></blockquote>I tend to agree.. they need to be applied like mitigation.. after everything else... basically like 100% mit for abc amount of damage... not sure if thats the case now.. but it appears not.. it should still count as a hit, and proc anything and everything that it should..</span></div>