For those who have previously posted that Berserkers are superior in every way...

[WAPCE]

<a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testfeed&message.id=45483#M45483" target="_blank">Your lucky day is ahead.</a>Let the post editing commence. <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Geothe]

<div>LOL</div><div>i was totally -just- going to post this myself. heh</div>

[mastersard]

<div></div><p>i know i'm not reading that right.</p><p>Is that Dev saying i can switch from Guardian to Berzerker?</p>

[Centioch]

<div></div>Aye

[Nemesi]

>Is that Dev saying i can switch from Guardian to Berzerker?if you betray..can you betray twice?!<div></div>

[mastersard]

<div></div><p>We really need a clairfication:  I know we can betray multiple times, and any level, but SOE is planning to allow players to convert to another, parallel class?</p><p>Monk - Bruiser?</p><p>Guard - Zerker?</p><p>Pally - SK?</p><p>If so, i can see a LOT of Guards changing over to Zerker (myself included), at least until Guards get some lovin.</p><p>I find it hard to believe, personally.  Doesn't sound SOE-ish to me.</p>

[Colossaltitan]

<div></div>It does to me.  They are noobifying the game.  This is their way of cutting down on the crying with less work.

[Crim001]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Colossaltitan wrote:<div></div>It does to me.  They are noobifying the game.  This is their way of cutting down on the crying with less work.<hr></blockquote>Wow, I've spent all that time to help complaining for nothing....

[Sirlutt]

LOL.. i was just about to post this.. Sony just fixed Guardians.. YAY !<div></div>

[Aar]

It'll be interesting to see how quiet this forum gets after the betrayal quest gets implemented for all levels <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Sirlutt]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Aaric wrote:It'll be interesting to see how quiet this forum gets after the betrayal quest gets implemented for all levels <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div><hr></blockquote>i'll pretty much just be the raid tanks.. lol.. everyone else will swap to a Zerker.</span></div>

[mastersard]

<div></div><div></div>**removed**<p>Message Edited by Scarrlette on <span class="date_text">01-30-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:12 PM</span></p>

[Gharik]

Sweet!. Time to swap my Guardian for a zerker!    <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[MrMartin]

<div></div><p>Now this is quite interesting.</p><p>My Guardian dinged 50 this weekend and i find him quite boring. He gets the job done but not much more.</p><p>About a month ago i rolled a zerker alt to play with my girlfriend and even though he is just lvl 26, he is MUCH more fun with A LOT more usefull utilitys.</p><p>Might have a look into that Betrayl quest once it goes live... <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>But that would mean I have to live in Freeport right? Thats a bad thing...Might have to do the Betrayl twice then to live in Qeynos as a Zerker then. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Wabit]

<div></div>ya'll better grab the zerker masters on the market now then...  soon they'll be as much as the guardian ones...

[Ladicav]

<div></div><p>I had to read this, 5 or 6 times before I could believe what I was reading. I'm stunned. Totally stunned! There is hope for me yet!!!</p><p>The cynic in me is saying soon as I switch to Zerker they will fix Guardians to their proper level again, just to [Removed for Content] me off!</p>

[Geothe]

<div>Keep reading in the thread.</div><div>It was just recently posted that they are also considering allow a betrayal-type quest for neutral classes to switch without actually changing cities.  ie Guard can to go Zerk while still remaining in Qeynos (or Freeport).   Of course.  all this only matters for NEUTRAL Classes.   Monks, Bruisers, Pallys, SKs are all still good/evil classes.</div>

[stelle]

<div></div>i didnt read that entire thread, but will your skills auto change? or could you like......mix and match them lol

[Wasuna]

<div></div><p>This is just sad. I love my Guardian and just wanted him balanced. I have officially lost all respect for SOE.</p><p>Instead of fixing us they give us a chance to just not play a broken class anymore. Of course I have to get all new adept 3's and learn how to play my class all over again at level 60 if I do this.</p>

[HereticNovalis]

<div>erm</div><div>did i get this right?</div><div>any guardian can switch to zerk - at any level? w/o changing city alignment? w/o losing faction with the city factions?</div><div> </div><div>well, i think i will stay guardian - maybe i just like being the only one around ^^</div><div> </div><div>if switching the class is really that simple (or even possible) you will see the number of guards decreasing in no time ^^</div><div> </div><div>an additional question: will a "betrayer" be able to betray again .. and again and again ...? <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><div> </div><div>some more clarification would be nice i think</div>

[Wasuna]

<div></div>According to one of the osts you can do each city betrayl one time so basically for us netral classes you can betray twice if you haven't already. I would be VERY cautious of this though. It wouldn't surprise me at all to have this changed. Those that want to swap to Bezerker for a few weeks just to see might not be able to come back if you descide to.

[Salgo]

<div>I too was hoping that SOE would just fix the Guardian class but since it appears that the Devs are saying..."Guardians are working as intended", I will probably take them up on their offer. I grow tired of all the arguing and just want to have as much fun as I once did. Although, I have to admit, I will probably feel cruddy for "abandoning ship" since that's not my style but what else can I do? Oh well, I still hope that Guardians get fixed one day.</div>

[stelle]

<div>im staying</div>

[Rah]

<div></div><p>Sad day indeed.</p><p>Once this gets implemented any post here that would in some effort seek to provide a balance to the Guardian class will now be immediatley followed by</p><p>"Well do a betrayal to class X and zip it!"</p><p>If this is the only solution that SOE has to offer then It is time for me to move on to another game. I will wait to exp the impact of the KoS expansion on my class and see if there is any changes made or explantions given to the class i favor.</p><p>Going down with the ship!</p><p> </p><p>Rahge</p>

[Timzil]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Rahge wrote:<div></div><p>Sad day indeed.</p><p>Once this gets implemented any post here that would in some effort seek to provide a balance to the Guardian class will now be immediatley followed by</p><p>"Well do a betrayal to class X and zip it!"</p><p>If this is the only solution that SOE has to offer then It is time for me to move on to another game. I will wait to exp the impact of the KoS expansion on my class and see if there is any changes made or explantions given to the class i favor.</p><p>Going down with the ship!</p><p> </p><p>Rahge</p><hr></blockquote><p> </p><p>I believe it's the right solution. Can't fix guardians without either turning them into the best tank or a berserker clone anyway. Making them the best tank would break EQ3, or EQ2 post LU13 if you prefer,  so that ain't gonna happen. Now if only we didn't have to do the silly quest it would be a perfect apology from SOE.</p>

[StGeorg]

<div>WOOT!!!</div><div> </div><div>This is awesome news <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><div> </div><div>I know that I said I wont post here anymore but my soon to be Level 58 Zerker had one question in regards to the spells.</div><div> </div><div>I have upgraded most of mine to Adept III on my guardian as well as some master spells that were given to me.</div><div>Will they auto translate into an Adpet III/Master 1 version on the Freeport side or will I have to have them re-made?</div><div> </div><div>Can I use the respec stone after completing the betrayal quest?</div><div> </div><div>How will that work? I loose everything but Rescue and then will get all new spells?</div><div>Or will I keep what I have and going forth will learn Zerker spells?</div><div> </div><div>I am confused... help please...</div><div> </div><div>Antedeluvian - 58 Zerker to be - Unrest</div>

[SkarlSpeedbu]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>StGeorg wrote:<div>WOOT!!!</div><div> </div><div>This is awesome news <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><div> </div><div>I know that I said I wont post here anymore but my soon to be Level 58 Zerker had one question in regards to the spells.</div><div> </div><div>I have upgraded most of mine to Adept III on my guardian as well as some master spells that were given to me.</div><div>Will they auto translate into an Adpet III/Master 1 version on the Freeport side or will I have to have them re-made?</div><div> </div><div>Can I use the respec stone after completing the betrayal quest?</div><div> </div><div>How will that work? I loose everything but Rescue and then will get all new spells?</div><div>Or will I keep what I have and going forth will learn Zerker spells?</div><div> </div><div>I am confused... help please...</div><div> </div><div>Antedeluvian - 58 Zerker to be - Unrest</div><hr></blockquote><p>As I understand, all CAs will revert to app 1.  and you would probably need to get all the spells and ancient teachingslevel 50 to level 58.  Obviously you will need to do the betrayal heh.  I read somewhere a dev stating they may put in a quest so you can change classes without even having to betray, cross your fingers, and I am glad you like the news <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Maybe this is the answer for all the disgruntled guards out there.</p><p>Im sure you could use the respec stone after class change.</p><p>I would wager that spells we have in common with other classes could possibly stay at the level you have them currently but I cannot say that for sure.</p>

[mastersard]

<div>Dear Chevrolet driver,</div><div> </div><div>We're sorry you are unhappy with the changes we've made to your Chevrolet.  In the near future, we will give you the oppotunity to trade it in for a Ford that will fill the same basic function as your current vehicle, only without all the drawbacks.</div><div> </div><div>Thanks,</div><div>SOE</div>

[SkarlSpeedbu]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>mastersardis wrote:<div>Dear Chevrolet driver,</div><div> </div><div>We're sorry you are unhappy with the changes we've made to your Chevrolet.  In the near future, we will give you the oppotunity to trade it in for a Ford that will fill the same basic function as your current vehicle, only without all the drawbacks.</div><div> </div><div>Thanks,</div><div>SOE</div><hr></blockquote><p>More like this:  You were used to a Ferrari, but at mile marker 13b you were brought down to earth and have to drive at 60 as a normal driver in a car that is <u>basically</u> as fast as any other car.  Now if you want, you can change to another car if you think that it is faster/more maneuverable, or exciting/whatever a person feels is the flavor car of the month.</p><p>Car analogies rock!</p><p>Thanks SOE <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Great idea</p>

[Storm_Runner]

<div></div>I don't know about this.  It seems like it would be much easier to fix Guardians than to resort to this.  I mean...it might work if it's done right but it also has the potential to be an unmitigated disaster.  LOL.  I said "unmitigated".  I made a Guardian mitigation joke.:smileytongue:  Plus...having to learn a new class at your current level and replace all those bright shiny new app1s is quite a price to pay for wanting to have a fix for Guardians.  Plus this isn't really a fix is it?  It's more of a "I'll give you this nice piece of candy if you'll just stop crying".  It's not a cure...it's a placebo.  Guardians will still have the disease it's just that some of them won't be around to complain about the symptoms anymore.

[mastersard]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Storm_Runner wrote:<div></div>"I'll give you this nice piece of candy if you'll just stop crying". <hr></blockquote><p>[Removed for Content]!!  I don't know which is more humorous, that SOE would have the cajones to do it, or that most of us will go for it...</p><p>BTW, post more, this stuff keeps me in stitches.  It's almost worth $14.95 just to read these boards.  Almost.</p>

[SkarlSpeedbu]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Storm_Runner wrote:<div></div>I don't know about this.  It seems like it would be much easier to fix Guardians than to resort to this.  I mean...it might work if it's done right but it also has the potential to be an unmitigated disaster.  LOL.  I said "unmitigated".  I made a Guardian mitigation joke.:smileytongue:  Plus...having to learn a new class at your current level and replace all those bright shiny new app1s is quite a price to pay for wanting to have a fix for Guardians.  Plus this isn't really a fix is it?  It's more of a "I'll give you this nice piece of candy if you'll just stop crying".  It's not a cure...it's a placebo.  Guardians will still have the disease it's just that some of them won't be around to complain about the symptoms anymore.<hr></blockquote>I still disagree with the term broken, and feel that guardians need a small tweak as far as some aggro control (i.e. taunt issues), and maybe dps, but I'm mixed about the dps.  Basically I am mixed about the dps issue because I still think we are a little bit better tanks than the others.  I do realize this is a subjective, so eh....you know what they say about opinions, and mine stink as much as anybody elses I guess.

[Storm_Runner]

<div></div>I don't think we're broken either but I do think we need some work.  We need some help with agro control, power utilization, taunt resists (but thats all fighters), and dps.  Yes dps.  I think we need to be doing dps thats much closer to a beserkers than we are now.  After all...they are our counterparts.  Look at the difference in dps between monks and bruisers, wizzies and warlocks, rangers and assassins.  There's not nearly as much difference between those groups of counterparts as there is between guardian and beserker dps.  I like my guardian and I'd rather not have to switch him to a beserker to have fun with him again.

[Sunrayn]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>SkarlSpeedbump wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>mastersardis wrote:<div>Dear Chevrolet driver,</div><div> </div><div>We're sorry you are unhappy with the changes we've made to your Chevrolet.  In the near future, we will give you the oppotunity to trade it in for a Ford that will fill the same basic function as your current vehicle, only without all the drawbacks.</div><div> </div><div>Thanks,</div><div>SOE</div><hr></blockquote><p>More like this:  You were used to a Ferrari, but at mile marker 13b you were brought down to earth and have to drive at 60 as a normal driver in a car that is <u>basically</u> as fast as any other car.  Now if you want, you can change to another car if you think that it is faster/more maneuverable, or exciting/whatever a person feels is the flavor car of the month.</p><p>Car analogies rock!</p><p>Thanks SOE <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Great idea</p><hr></blockquote><p>Nope, actually, you got it wrong too.</p><p>You were used to driving a no frills Ferrari that was built for one thing, speed.  At mile marker 13b, you were brought down a lot and cars with all the frills had bigger engines installed to match your speed.  Unfortunately, we are not offering any frills to the 'New Farrari' owners.</p>

[StGeorg]

<div></div><p>Thank you SkariSpeedbump for your input,   <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p> </p><p>Yes I am excited and I think there is more out there that are.</p><p>Sure people don't want to be grouping with their buddy that is a new class every week and does not know how to play that class.</p><p>I just really cannot see people changing tooms around just for the hell of it. Only people who really thought their class would be something</p><p>else they hoped for will look into alternatives. More than likely they already have an alt in that class that they like.</p><p>I really cannot see why people think this is such a bad idea. Why punish people and force them to love their class for a decision they may have made</p><p>based on the orginal game manual with no prior MMORPG experience?</p><p> </p><p>Would I change my mystic to fury? Probably not.</p><p>Would I change my swashbuckler to a ranger? Probably not.</p><p>Will I change my guardian into a class that can solo effciently? More than likely, Maybe a bruiser, brawler, berserker, Paladin, who knows....</p><p>I will still be a fighter/tank. I will still understand what my role in a group is and what I am supposed to do or not do.</p><p> </p><p>It is simple - you know which players understand the game and you know which ones do not. Continue grouping with the ones that do and you will be fine.</p><p>Sure it takes some time to relearn your toon, but then again this is not nuclear physics we are talking about. It is a game.</p><p> </p><p>I think this is the best idea since sliced bread - perhaps better yet.</p><p> </p><p>Ante - 58 figher of unrest</p>

[Gharik]

"Would I change my mystic to fury? Probably not.<p>Would I change my swashbuckler to a ranger? Probably not."</p><p>erm.... a mystic would have to change to a defiler, and a swashbuckler to a brigand.      <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>I'm looking forward to the ability to switch my guardian to a berserker, will make him fun to play again.    <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><div></div>

[StGeorg]

<div>Gharik wrote</div><div> </div><div>------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</div><div>"Would I change my mystic to fury? Probably not.<p>Would I change my swashbuckler to a ranger? Probably not."</p><p>erm.... a mystic would have to change to a defiler, and a swashbuckler to a brigand.      <img src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif" width="16" border="0" height="16"></p><p>I'm looking forward to the ability to switch my guardian to a berserker, will make him fun to play again.    <img src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif" width="16" border="0" height="16">------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</p><p> </p><p>Not if I i get it my way. I want to be able to cross sub-classes, Sub-Classes are going away are they not?</p><p>I want my 58 Guard to be able to become a 58 monk, if not that maybe a 58 ranger, or dirge, or whatever I want to be.</p><p>I know it will be costly having to vendor sell all my armor but I think I should be able to pick ANY class on both good or evil side. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p> </p><p>Yeah - that will be nice. I will also promise to whoever groups with me that I will do my best to play the class to it's fullest abiliy.</p><p> </p><p>Ante - Unrest</p></div>

[minionofdeath]

My Guard has been out of action for the past month and I was not coming back for the new KoS Exp or anything else.  If this indeed is true and I can change my toon to a zerker then I'm back in the game baby!  It's not so much that the Guardian class is broken, it's that after the CU, Guardians are only effective as the groups MT and as the raids MT or OT.  If you raid and are not the MT then you know what I'm talking about.  All we can do on raids is try to do as much dps as we can.  So for me being able to change to a Zerker is something I've posted about and asked for.  Now as a Zerker I can help my guild so much more on raids and am looking forward to this change.  I'm not sure why any Guards would oppose this change either.  If anything Guardians will be more sought after as I'm sure there's gonna be a huge shift of Guards to Zerkers.<div></div>

[mastersard]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>minionofdeath wrote:...I'm sure there's gonna be a huge shift of Guards to Zerkers.<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>To me, this is the real reason they've decided to do this.  They dont plan on fixing Guards, because it would take a complete overhaul of the class.  There's really nothing left of the November '04 Guardian.  There's just a great big pile of bandaids from trying to patch up the huge sucking chest wound that was LU13.</p><p>SOE knows that after this change goes live, their wont be ebough active Guards (non-MTing for raid guilds) to really upset the community.  Moreover, anyone who comes here and complains will be told "If you're not happy with your class, then do the betrayal quest and change to a Zerker."</p>

[minionofdeath]

I so much wanted some real attention and focus put on our class.  But this is the next best thing since from my perspective Bruisers/Beserkers and other classes are very very happy with their toons right now.  Even a moderate estimate would say only 50/50 of Guards are happy with their class and the half who are happy are most likely raid tanks.  Guardians only have one side to them and that's to tank in groups and raids.  They are not a complete class any longer if you are not doing either of those 2 things.  I'm super excited about this upcoming update.  I had already stopped playing this game due to hating what my class now was, but this future update will bring me back as a customer for sure.<div></div>

[HereticNovalis]

<div>the simply could add mitigation to tower shields and make those shields guardian-only</div><div>but eliminating the class by allowing to switch at one click seems to be easier</div><div>great ....</div>

[Poochymama]

<div></div><blockquote><p>They better get class balancing right or there will be lots of class switchings.</p><p>I see lost of Assasin -------> Ranger changes. Lots of SK --------> Paladin Changes</p><p> </p></blockquote>

[Salgo]

<div></div><div><font size="2"></font><hr></div><div><font size="2">They better get class balancing right or there will be lots of class switchings.</font></div><div><font size="2"></font><hr></div><p>I think this is SOE's way of saying...."bah we are done trying to balance everything it's just not possible"</p><p>Hmmm wasn't that stated before specifically for the fighter class (avoidance vs mitigation)?</p><p>This move also allows SOE to save face..."we are not allowing people to /reclass but they can complete a betrayal quest and switch sub-classes that way"</p><p>Hey whatever works, I'm all for it.</p>

[MrDiz]

Best tactic I see right now is play a zerker till you hit level cap then switch to guardian for that ever so small advantage in raids. Is it possible to switch to zerker from guardian, then back to guardian later?

[mastersard]

<div></div>Multiple betrayals are going to be possible, so why not?

[JeffBship]

<div>This is great news!  My alchemist will be rich rich rich making spells for the thousands of new Zerkers, all at level cap and all needing all new spells <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[SkarlSpeedbu]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Nope, actually, you got it wrong too.<p>You were used to driving a no frills Ferrari that was built for one thing, speed.  At mile marker 13b, you were brought down a lot and cars with all the frills had bigger engines installed to match your speed.  Unfortunately, we are not offering any frills to the 'New Farrari' owners.</p><hr></blockquote><p>Nope you got it wrong again, Actually Ferrari built several different models of sports car, but one was the top of the line for the same amount of money as the others.  No one ever bought the others.  Now they gave the other cars some advantages so that they would sell.  The problem is the people that bought the top of the line ferrarri fought like mad to maintain a speed edge, but ultimately the manufacturer just stopped listening to them because hey, they gotta sell cars, and ALL ferraris sell because of their speed ability.</p><p>Maybe if the people with the top of the line ferraris were more realistic, those top of the line ferraris would have some perks now.  Too bad for Ferrari snobs <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Maybe once these owners start behaving realistically, and quit saying "we want to be the fastest of all"!! we shall see improvements in next year's model  YAY!</p>

[Pry]

<div></div><p align="center"><strong><font size="5"><font color="#ff0000">Goodbye Guardian, Hello Zerker!</font> </font></strong></p><p>It allows for me to correct that mistake I made at level 20 when I said "Hey, Guardian seems fun to play!"  And it was until LU13 came out, now its replete with stinkiosity.  Indeed, one would have to be insane to level up a Guardian at this point, and I suspect the Berserker class is going to get a lot more people in it. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Of course, given SOE's penchant for nerfitude, I am sure I will switch and then they will nerf Zerkers and fix Guardians.</p>

[SkarlSpeedbu]

<div></div>I agree with you Prynn, there should be some mechanism to allow a person to change class if they want to.  It should be hard and with some penalty, but should be available to players.  I hope you get this bro.  No one should be unhappy with their character.

[Crim001]

<div></div>Well, as much as I'd like to switch to zerker, I just can't see myself doing it. Not only is there the bait and switch fear, but also the fact that I'm a casual player who has never really had more than 4-5p available to me. Heh at this point I've just made a few alts and am having fun leveling them up instead of playing my higher level guard.