Holding Aggro ???

[Thorrad]

<div></div><div></div><div>Hello Fellow Guardians,</div><div> </div><div>Long time board reader, seldom post.</div><div> </div><div>Well, I too currently believe my Guardian is a broken class. I started EQ2 with a group of friends when it was first released.</div><div>My friends all decided to pick classes they wanted to play, trying to keep a balanced group. I was stuck with the Tank/MT duty.</div><div> </div><div>We have all leveled together and done many heritage Quests together. All level 54+ ATM. ( Warden - Mystic - 2x conjurers - Ranger - Guardian )</div><div> </div><div>At the time, I choose a guardian as he seemed to be the best choice among the tanks for a group. Pure defensive tank and meat shield. All prior to LU13.</div><div> </div><div>Now at level 59 I am having a terrible time holding aggro. I have all my Taunts and Taunting CAs at Adept 1 or better ( working on getting them all to Adept 3s or better).  We use teamspeak, so I am able to tell them when I have arrgo and am ready for them to start engaging the MoBs. BUT even still, I constantly lose arrgo, even when I am spamming all my taunting CAs.  (Yes, I mean all taunting CAs including HTL CA and Reinforcement) (BTW Master 1 Rescue. Sucks when that too gets resisted)</div><div> </div><div>Usually after a battle, I am sitting at 40% power while all the rest of my group is at 80% or better for power.  So by looking at power usage, I see everyone is regulating themselves, except me. I have to go full bore, non-stop taunting. Yet I still lose arrgo ALLOT!!!!!</div><div> </div><div>Nothing infuriates me more than to lose arrgo when I am spamming all my taunts. I do use Damage CAs, but even with Cobalt Imbued weapon and 400+ strength, I hardly do any damage.</div><div> </div><div>Just wondering if all other Guardians are suffering the same with holding aggro ?</div><div> </div><div>Is there some trick i need to do to increase my arrgo ?</div><div> </div><div>NOTE Engaging the Upper tier MoBS now. Tend to be all level 60+ heroics.</div><div> </div><div>Please help if you can,</div><div> </div><div>Thx,</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>EDIT: Corrected Arrgo to Aggro. Hope that helps, but I think your missing the point. Please post intelligent feedback. Reason I seldom post. Lack of intelligent feedback.</div><div> </div><div>EDIT: Modified message header from Arrgo to Aggro. </div><p>Message Edited by Thorradin on <span class="date_text">01-18-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:30 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Thorradin on <span class="date_text">01-18-2006</span><span class="time_text">02:31 PM</span></p>

[Krooner]

<div>Put a Dirge or some other scout in your group that can transfer hate!</div><div> </div>

[Vandileir]

<div></div>I think Coercers also get an MT hate buff?I know for sure Assasins and Dirges do.

[Sirlutt]

reroll as a pally ?.. lolThe issue your describing is the exact one that i have aswell ( My guard is only lvl 37), and the same issue that many brawlers will come in here and tell us doesnt exist.<div></div>

[TanRaistlyn]

<div></div><p>Whats Arrgo?</p><p> </p>

[NanthielNightwa]

You're high level and you can't spell <u><i>aggression</i></u><i> </i><i>(</i>aggro<i>)</i> right.I won't comment on that.<div></div>

[Thorrad]

<div></div><div></div><p>Well, hate to ask a friend to restart a different toon just so I can hold Aggro ( ie. Hate = One getting the stuffing beat out of himself).</p><p>I do know that there are a few scout classes (Swashbucklers too) that can help with hate generation. My guardian should not require another class to maintain position 1 on the hate list. Given my MANY hate generating CAs, I would think I could maintain hate without outside help.</p><p>I have a Paladin and Monk Alt. but when my friends are online, they want to hit zones at their level and not mentor  - power level my Alts.</p><p>Guess there is no easy trick I can do.</p><p>Message Edited by Thorradin on <span class="date_text">01-18-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:32 PM</span></p>

[TanRaistlyn]

<div></div><p>U can upgrade your tuants to adept 3 and master that means less resists and more tuants...should help.  In one group situations I very rarely ever have problem losing agro...perhaps tell your friends to not go balls to the wall with damage and steal it from you...</p><p>Make sure u have your MD at master 2 cuz thats a no brainer for agro control.</p><p> </p>

[Thorrad]

<div></div><p>At level 57, Guardians get Inflaming Defense. I have this as an Adept 3 currently. Does generate more hate then my MD at master 2.</p><p>I use Inflaming Defense all the time. It's the reason I lose power quickly (besides spamming taunts) and am at 40% power at end of battles.</p>

[TanRaistlyn]

<div></div>ID doesnt use power while u have it on, just uses it the first time you cast...shouldnt be going so low due to that skill alone.  Try just using ur Tuants and no CAs and talk with your friends to wait till u have agro to start attacking or just take it easy on the damage they do.

[Aar]

<div></div>1. Experiment with the mystic warding you, and determine if you are getting HtL procs - it may be that his wards are interfearing with reactive agro.2. Experiment with dual wield/offensive stance.  With two healers, you should be able to tank this way (assuming you are in enough cobalt/fabled)  You can also go sword/board in offensive as a mixed stance, as your CA's will hit for more (and more often) due to the strength modifiers on the CAs (generating more agro through dps - and you get hit more, which means more HTL procs)3. Don't taunt the adds much if they are still on you after killing the first target.  You will build a large amount of hate with the adds while killing the first target, and you won't need to taunt as much on the adds.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Aaric on <span class="date_text">01-18-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:18 AM</span></p>

[Wabit]

<div></div><p>it'll get a little easier once you get confront...  nice group btw...</p><p>assuage the ranger, also make him the MA...  on the pull AE taunt, ae taunt attack, then let them start to kill...  start swithing targets and landing a taunt or a couple CA's on each...</p><p>make sure the conj aren't useing a tank pet...</p><p>honestly without help from another class hold onto agro as long as you can...  if they are all going full bore right from the pull, stuff dies quick, but you're gonna lose agro...</p><p>if agro on the pull is going to the shammy, don't preward...</p>

[machbane]

<div>First all upgrade any hate generating CA to adept 3 minimun, master if you can afford them. My confront,goading assault,protect,inflaming defense are all master (one choice, 2 drops, one bought). next use assuage, works wonders. last tell them wait for assist call, i rarely use an MA in a single group set-up and have little problem with agro if the others are at least a little careful with their dps. I also tio with a conjuror and templar. The conjuror insists on using his tank pet in case we get adds. He also tends to attack whatever mob he likes rather than assist. I used to try to fight for agro with the pet and wasted lots of power. Now I put assuage on the pet, LOL funny the conjuror cant figure out why he keep pulling agro from the pet. My templar friend thinks it's pretty funny. </div>

[mastersard]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Aaric wrote:<div></div><p>1. Experiment with the mystic warding you, and determine if you are getting HtL procs - it may be that his wards are interfearing with reactive agro.</p><hr></blockquote>I've tested this.  Wards negate all HTL skills, as well as any skill that requires the tank to be hit for it to go off (reactive heals).  Shafts the Mystic <em>and</em> the guard.

[ToiletBomb]

Nope, I feel I hold aggro quite well.  Always have a warlock grouped with me and he can pull aggro, but usually hold it til the thing dies.  Pretty good on power usage once I got used to backing off on taunts.My single target encounter lineupConfront (as inc)Shield Slam oneVengeful StrikeHewRelentless ChargeI usually stop there depending on how hard the group is burning.  Sometimes I throw HtL up but usually only on multiple mobs is it needed.  I will use other combat arts and another round of taunts on longer fights.<div></div>

[Bantel]

<div></div><div></div><div>Based on your level and group composition, I recommend you do ALL of the following:</div><div> </div><div>Warden buffs on you:54 - Natural Instinct -  greatly increases all offensive skills (DPS is a great aggro producer). The Ranger has enough DPS, you need this more than him/her.52 - Thorncoat - damage shield (the damage goes to YOUR hate list, not the Wardens).44 - Aspect of the Owl - increases the wisdom and power pool of an ally (more power Scotty!).</div><div> </div><div>Mystic buffs on you:47 - Avatar - increases strength, stamina, agility, and attack speed of the chosen ally.44 - Prophecy - increases the health and power of the mystic's ally (more health and power Scotty!).</div><div> </div><div>Ranger CA to use as often as possible:53 - Primal Agility - Reduces the amount of hate that the ranger accumulates in combat.</div><div> </div><div>Conjuror buffs on you:51 - Blazing Seed - grants a chance to deal heat damage with every attack and place an impairment on the opponent (goes to YOUR hate list).50 - Flameshield - deals instant heat damage to any attacker of that ally (goes to YOUR hate list).</div><div> </div><div>Ask your Mystic to DO NOT WARD, DO NOT TORPOR, use the heal pet and direct heals only please (wards appear to prevent our MD from proccing, although I have some contradictory data I'm still looking at).</div><div> </div><div>Now, as for your role:</div><div>Always use Tier 6 food (+str naturally) and drink.</div><div>Get what you can to Adept 3. This is crucial for both effectiveness and power consumption.</div><div>Once you have you direct taunts, damage taunts, and proc taunts upgraded, then start upgrading your damage spells. Go for 53 - Relentless Charge and 42 - Cleave first, as the DOT/debuff component of each helps build hate.</div><div> </div><div>I suggest you go sword and board, neutral stance (neither defensive nor offensive stance toggled on). You have the healing and DPS to make it work.</div><div><div>Always use your lvl 54 - Commanding Aura at the start of each fight. This buff seems to really tick off the mobs.</div>If necessary, toggle on defensive stance, then flip it off once the first mob is dead.</div><div>Flip on your offensive stance once you are down to the last mob. At this point, you shouldn't need to taunt anymore, just do auto-attack damage and a couple of DOT type CA's.</div><div> </div><div><div>Don't spam your taunts and taunt attacks.</div><div>It's all about keeping yourself on the top of the hate list on each combat cycle, not at the top of the list every possible moment.</div><div> </div><div>I will typically use something like this:</div><div>Open with an aoe taunt</div><div>aoe attack</div><div>single target taunt</div><div><div>DOT/Debuff attack (relentless charge/cleave)</div>aoe taunt attack (taunting assault at your level)</div><div>single target taunt attack (unforgiving strike)</div><div>your big hitter (blast/quelling strike)</div><div>Wash, rinse, repeat.</div><div> </div><div>If you lose aggro, slam the mob or use quelling strike to stun it, then flip on Reinforcement and immediately do your aoe taunt attack followed by your aoe attack. This will quickly regain all hate to you.</div><div> </div><div>The big key is to pace yourself, not to spam them as they refresh.</div><div>If you lose aggro when the mob is below a quarter health, don't waste any power trying to get it back, your group will kill it b4 it kills anyone; just move on to the next mob and start your cycle while they burn it down.</div><div> </div><div>Of course, this is all situational; if the mob riposte's, then don't use the direct damage CA's, etc.</div><div> </div><div>Hope some of this helps <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><div> </div><div> </div></div><p>Message Edited by Bantel on <span class="date_text">01-18-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:39 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Bantel on <span class="date_text">01-18-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:39 PM</span></p>

[Sirlutt]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Bantel wrote:<div></div><div></div><div>Based on your level and group composition, I recommend you do ALL of the following:</div><div> </div><div>Warden buffs on you:54 - Natural Instinct -  greatly increases all offensive skills (DPS is a great aggro producer). The Ranger has enough DPS, you need this more than him/her.52 - Thorncoat - damage shield (the damage goes to YOUR hate list, not the Wardens).44 - Aspect of the Owl - increases the wisdom and power pool of an ally (more power Scotty!).</div><div> </div><div>Mystic buffs on you:47 - Avatar - increases strength, stamina, agility, and attack speed of the chosen ally.44 - Prophecy - increases the health and power of the mystic's ally (more health and power Scotty!).</div><div> </div><div>Ranger CA to use as often as possible:53 - Primal Agility - Reduces the amount of hate that the ranger accumulates in combat.</div><div> </div><div>Conjuror buffs on you:51 - Blazing Seed - grants a chance to deal heat damage with every attack and place an impairment on the opponent (goes to YOUR hate list).50 - Flameshield - deals instant heat damage to any attacker of that ally (goes to YOUR hate list).</div><div> </div><div>Ask your Mystic to DO NOT WARD, DO NOT TORPOR, use the heal pet and direct heals only please (wards appear to prevent our MD from proccing, although I have some contradictory data I'm still looking at).</div><div> </div><div>Now, as for your role:</div><div>Always use Tier 6 food (+str naturally) and drink.</div><div>Get what you can to Adept 3. This is crucial for both effectiveness and power consumption.</div><div>Once you have you direct taunts, damage taunts, and proc taunts upgraded, then start upgrading your damage spells. Go for 53 - Relentless Charge and 42 - Cleave first, as the DOT/debuff component of each helps build hate.</div><div> </div><div>I suggest you go sword and board, neutral stance (neither defensive nor offensive stance toggled on). You have the healing and DPS to make it work.</div><div><div>Always use your lvl 54 - Commanding Aura at the start of each fight. This buff seems to really tick off the mobs.</div>If necessary, toggle on defensive stance, then flip it off once the first mob is dead.</div><div>Flip on your offensive stance once you are down to the last mob. At this point, you shouldn't need to taunt anymore, just do auto-attack damage and a couple of DOT type CA's.</div><div> </div><div><div>Don't spam your taunts and taunt attacks.</div><div>It's all about keeping yourself on the top of the hate list on each combat cycle, not at the top of the list every possible moment.</div><div> </div><div>I will typically use something like this:</div><div>Open with an aoe taunt</div><div>aoe attack</div><div>single target taunt</div><div><div>DOT/Debuff attack (relentless charge/cleave)</div>aoe taunt attack (taunting assault at your level)</div><div>single target taunt attack (unforgiving strike)</div><div>your big hitter (blast/quelling strike)</div><div>Wash, rinse, repeat.</div><div> </div><div>If you lose aggro, slam the mob or use quelling strike to stun it, then flip on Reinforcement and immediately do your aoe taunt attack followed by your aoe attack. This will quickly regain all hate to you.</div><div> </div><div>The big key is to pace yourself, not to spam them as they refresh.</div><div>If you lose aggro when the mob is below a quarter health, don't waste any power trying to get it back, your group will kill it b4 it kills anyone; just move on to the next mob and start your cycle while they burn it down.</div><div> </div><div>Of course, this is all situational; if the mob riposte's, then don't use the direct damage CA's, etc.</div><div> </div><div>Hope some of this helps <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><div> </div><div> </div></div><p>Message Edited by Bantel on <span class="date_text">01-18-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:39 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Bantel on <span class="date_text">01-18-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:39 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Fantastic post.</span></div>

[Thorrad]

<div></div><div></div><p>WOW, the last few posts were really excellent !  Thank You Very Much.</p><p>I will work on all those pointers and pass on the other info to my fellow groupmates.</p><p>Tonight, I did have the conjurer use only their air pets and assist the ranger as we did a few groups of 59 to 61 heroics for the FT1 necklace piece in PoF. It worked rather nicely and MoBs dropped rather quickly.</p><p>I will try out the other recommendation this coming weekend as we try to hit Poets Palace and see how we do there.</p><p>Thank you everyone,</p><p> </p><p>Message Edited by Thorradin on <span class="date_text">01-19-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:03 AM</span></p>

[RipFlex]

<div></div><p>I think the main problem, and I see that many have work arounds - good to see, is that Sony messed up and made the Aggro (Aggravate) management to a number of other classes to help the Main Tank keep aggro by handing out Hate generating skills to this class and that class.  Think only reason they did this is to make these other classes HAVE to be picked by the MT if he/she wants to maintain aggro.  I FEEL that 100% Aggro Management should remain EXCLUSIVE to the Fighter Arch-Type than this "Well if you want better aggro you need this class and that class" Cra'p.  I'm all for Hate-Reducing self buffs to the High DPS classes for themselves and it's their responsibility to keep that upgraded or keep their DPS down until they do, but I am FULLY against Hate transfer-like skills casted on the Tank or on another High DPS class from another class that has nothing to do in Tanking/Hate management.</p><p>I hope you know what I mean on this?</p><p> </p><p> </p>

[Drulak]

<div></div><p>Yeah i know what you mean and i totally aggree.  for the majority of the game , say 90% of combat , the Tank (regardless of class) should be able to hold aggro with his own skills.  now if the mage goes 100% or you do not use your taunts , then you loose it obviously , but for normal play - by using the correct skills , you can hold aggro.</p><p> </p><p>The hate reducers etc , should only be to help out with the not normal 10% - maybe harder orange con mobs or even less than that -  just to help with the random 10% when the mob just has a loathing for a mage no matter what you do.</p><p> </p><p>If tank uses hate skills correctly , chance of loosing aggro should be minimal , apart from the random unforseen circumstances.  BUT it should definately be a tank issue.  I do not see anyone saying the warden needs a Monk in the group to be able to heal correctly.</p>

[Rah]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>machbane wrote:<div>First all upgrade any hate generating CA to adept 3 minimun, master if you can afford them. My confront,goading assault,protect,inflaming defense are all master (one choice, 2 drops, one bought). next use assuage, works wonders. last tell them wait for assist call, i rarely use an MA in a single group set-up and have little problem with agro if the others are at least a little careful with their dps. I also tio with a conjuror and templar. The conjuror insists on using his tank pet in case we get adds. He also tends to attack whatever mob he likes rather than assist. I used to try to fight for agro with the pet and wasted lots of power. <font color="#ff0000"><strong>Now I put assuage on the pet</strong></font>, LOL funny the conjuror cant figure out why he keep pulling agro from the pet. My templar friend thinks it's pretty funny. </div><hr></blockquote><p>Never thought of that trick thanks!</p><p> </p><p>Rahge</p>