How about a DoT Taunt?

[Vorlak]

<DIV>Here's an idea for sony...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A taunt that is placed on the target that generates hate every tick using power 10pwr a tick generating 666 hate (master1) until the guardian is out of power?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What do people and sony think of this idea for the guardian class? (yea I have seen the threads on power issues)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>/shrug I dont lose agro much but this spell (Inflaming Defence) is pretty useless, I actully hold agro better without it and only use it to not run around when feared. Now that its being changed to snare I will just use plant and put this spell back in the book or just put it on in the hopes that a shaman's ward dosnt need to land for a few hits or I dont parry.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Vorlak on <span class=date_text>12-16-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:44 AM</span>

[Deadly Nightshadow]

10 power? That's really low. I'd say that 100 power would be more realistic. Also, it would unbalance the classes. I don't think it would work at all; sorry. <div></div>

[DistortionII]

I can understand that it's frustrating if you're rooted and someone pulls aggro, because then you probably have to break the root and go after the mob. But I wouldn't go as far as to say that Inflaming Defense is useless. It's actually a pretty decent and convenient spell.<div></div>

[Kine]

The idea of a Taunt over time type spell is interesting...we could sure use something. Regarding inflamming defense I have to disagree with you though. Its not perfect, that's for sure, but atm it is a very important part of our agro management. I see a huge difference on multi-mob encounters if I forget to turn this on.

[Ratty31]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Vorlak wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> this spell (Inflaming Defence) is pretty useless,</DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I bet your fun to party with.</DIV>

[mastersard]

He's right, tho.  The ability sucks.  The sad part is that line of abilities is a Guardian's <EM>best source of generating agro!</EM>

[Colossaltitan]

Taunt over time or direct hate taunt would end up being the same thing.  SoE won't add anything "special" special as in overpowered into the game for Guardians.<BR><BR>Hate is easily controllable as a Guardian. If you can't hold it I suggest toying with your playstyle.

[Pry]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Colossaltitan wrote:<BR>Taunt over time or direct hate taunt would end up being the same thing.  SoE won't add anything "special" special as in overpowered into the game for Guardians.<BR><BR>Hate is easily controllable as a Guardian. If you can't hold it I suggest toying with your playstyle. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>...says the bruiser...

[Sirlutt]

we dont need a HOT buff.. we need the defnsive equivilent of the berzerkers group berzerk proc ... a group buff that procs mit, and at the same time procs hate on the guard (or group friend we cast this on) .. and on the opposite side of the zerker buff ours should proc (on a small %) when someone in the group takes damage.  Make it something we get at 20 .. and upgrade the mit/hate and or percent with our levels.. and with spell quality (ie app to adept to master)<div></div>

[Colossaltitan]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sirlutt wrote:<BR>we dont need a HOT buff.. we need the defnsive equivilent of the berzerkers group berzerk proc ... a group buff that procs mit, and at the same time procs hate on the guard (or group friend we cast this on) .. and on the opposite side of the zerker buff ours should proc (on a small %) when someone in the group takes damage.  Make it something we get at 20 .. and upgrade the mit/hate and or percent with our levels.. and with spell quality (ie app to adept to master)<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>yeah...right... and give me a proc buff that adds 3,000% avoidance per hit.<BR><BR>That would be way overpowered. SOE says, "We should all tank the same, so we're going to give Guardians a Proc Buff that upps their mit each time they hit or get hit."  Ask for something within reason.<BR><BR><BR> <DIV>DoT Taunt = Taunt.  IDK About you all but I'd rather have 1k direct hate every 9sec as opposed to 200/2sec.  It turns out to be the same exact thing, it would just look different, and in certain situations would be LESS effective.<BR><BR>Guardians can hold aggro perfectly fine, I watch a Guardian do it fine every night, over top DPS rangers, brigands, swashys, and me (the bruiser) going full out DPS with Quarrel (hate proc) up.</DIV>

[Ladicav]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Colossaltitan wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR>Guardians can hold aggro perfectly fine, I watch a Guardian do it fine every night, over top DPS rangers, brigands, swashys, and me (the bruiser) going full out DPS with Quarrel (hate proc) up.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Based on the experience of one Guardian, who you group with often, who has also probably kitted themselves out and adjusted the way he/she does things to suit YOUR group and the players n your group have also had to adjust the way they do things to suit him/her also, which we also know nothing about, you have decided to apply that sweeping statement to every other Guardian who has ever rolled up the class. </P> <P>Therefore everyone who comes on here expressing concern obviously must be wrong, and of course your opinion must be the correct one. Guardians are the kings of agro above and beyond every other fighter class. Sorry we all have it wrong your lordship, we will all just go crawl back into our holes.<BR></P>

[Chris]

<P>I like the idea i tuart or hate over time need to played tested but</P> <P>and about guardian holding agro over bruiser. LOL i can get argo off Zerber and bruiser, wizz, neco , and list go on and on. Ok my taurt and App 4 to master 2 going all out with all i got i lost agro in first 1 min of a fight Nerver get back.</P> <P>iam level 53 and got Damage rating weapon 40.5 1hs is this my main area i need to fix</P> <P> </P>

[Plaz]

Sup fellow Guardians,I posted something just like this a few days ago of a difrent post and this is what i came up with .I agree that it would be really nice to have some typ of a DoT Hate call it HoT = Hate over Time.Now for some of the taunts that have dmg within them would be takken out.The dmg that was takken out would be replaced with a magor taunt off the rip then a 2nd magor taunt broke up into a 4 tic ratio that dose not take any more power then the intial cast of the taunt.So for all taunts that would have dmg within them would replaced by this and coust now more power then what it was befor hand.

[Sirlutt]

I think you totally didnt understand my post... Berzerkers have an offensive buff that procs when people attakc.. it makes sense for Guardians (the defensive opposite of the offensive zerker) to have a defensive buff that procs when a group member gets hit.it doesnt stack .. if its already running, then it just resets the 15 second timer .. it doesnt add 3000% (moronic) .. it adds a small amount.. maybe 3% at app1  .. up to 10% at master 1 .. its a brief surge of mitigation (and hate for the tank) when someone gets hit.. i dont think thats over powering at all.. it can be adjusted to be not overpowering and gives you good reason to have a guardian in your group, even as a non MT .. it also keeps with the guardians being defensive and the zerker being offensive.<div></div>

[Colossaltitan]

Do you all understand how exactly hate works?<BR> <DIV>"ToT" aka, Taunt over Time<BR>Would = the same exact thing as a direct taunt.<BR><BR>This would balance out to the same exact hate generation # so why change it?<BR></DIV>

[ToiletBomb]

Sorry I kinda agree with Colossaltitan. DoT taunt would be same as direct taunt and unbeneficial in most occurances.  The big up front taunt allows casters / dps to go all out sooner instead of having to wait for the guard to build aggro.  I would rather see HTL tweaked over this added instead. And it seems HTL is getting the tweaking it needs so this isnt the issue. Rienlos 60 Guardian Crushbone <div></div>

[Sirlutt]

oh i think we all understand too well how hate works.. and assuming otherwise is just ignorant.a large upfront taunt is going to be alot more prone to being resisted than a taunt that works off a proc.ideally we need a mixture of both.. which we sort of have.  What i think we miss is a class defining ability like the zerkers berserk.. a proc thats defensive..<div></div>

[Colossaltitan]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sirlutt wrote:<BR>oh i think we all understand too well how hate works.. and assuming otherwise is just ignorant.<BR><BR>a large upfront taunt is going to be alot more prone to being resisted than a taunt that works off a proc.<BR><BR>ideally we need a mixture of both.. which we sort of have.  What i think we miss is a class defining ability like the zerkers berserk.. <FONT color=#ff3300>a proc thats defensive..</FONT><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>This is called Maddening Defense.<BR><BR>Also, DoT's would work the same way as this ToT idea. DoTs = Resisted once upfront and no ticks happen, or they land the first time and all ticks happen.  So again, What would be the difference?</DIV>

[Ag0ny]

Main thing with DoT taunts it your goign more into what SKs do i beleave that have one in eq 2 i know they have some in eq 1 and some other games warriors or more of a hitting  the mob for hate and argo i think there should be somthing more along the lines of a buff or added into a stance that when you hit a mob you gain like 100 hate or somethign even its it just 100 hate then thats helps alot when you factor in the swings. I can tell a difference with inflamming defense but mainly on raids  it grow a lot more ineffective since hte idea is to not get hit and you ahve wards stacked parrys going and what not i mean when your tanking a named that hits for 2k to 6k a hit if you get hit more then a couple time every 10 seconds your gogin to end up dead so have a 50 percent chance on  the so slow seldom you get hit doesn't help. But it does help when you doing like eyeball and tanking 40 mobs then you can really tell a difference. <div></div>

[ToiletBomb]

Dont we have this ability?  Sure its short duration but um... rienforcement? <div></div>

[Skha]

DoT taunts suck.... noone would take them over direct taunts... just make taunts unresistable =P<div></div>

[Colossaltitan]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ag0ny wrote:<BR>I can tell a difference with inflamming defense but mainly on raids  it grow a lot more <FONT color=#ff3300>ineffective since hte idea is to not get hit</FONT> and you ahve wards stacked parrys going and what not i mean when your tanking a named that hits for 2k to 6k a hit if you get hit more then a couple time every 10 seconds your gogin to end up dead so have a 50 percent chance on  the so slow seldom you get hit doesn't help.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Are you a Brawler or Guardian?<BR>The idea is to mitigate the hits as much as you can, not avoid them entirely.<BR><BR><BR>However with Wards not proccing inflaming defense, that IS a problem.<BR><BR>Still though you should have no problems with aggromanagement.</DIV>

[Axor]

<DIV>[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] phayax shut up alrdy =P</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You couldnt resist huh ? someone talks about improving my stupid d0rf and you have to take part on it ... [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] YOU HAVE VS ME ????</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Well im jokking...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Taunt dot seems lame to me honestly.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think our single mob taunt is pretty ok. On raid with a coercer or dirge i have not much of a problem with agro, our real problem is encounter taunts. they not tunned with encounter dmg of other clases.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>IMO they should repair lot of other things before than inflaming deffense wich i think is one of the best taunts we have.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>beside that, if they make us able to taunt without pushing the butons, root us in place etc... i would prolly go to a class that makes me feel like im a player, i dont want the concept of TVtank to be back .. yeah thats the old eq1 tanks, ( and most of melees ) that were watching tv at time they tanked raid mobs.</DIV>

[Colossaltitan]

<3 Axor.

[Sirlutt]

i agree with the "d0rf" .. its not single mob taunts that are the issue really.. its encounter wide that i think Guards need the help..untill that happens i see no reason to use a Guard in most situations .. we have a pally with better mit/hp than most guardians (carefully chosen gear) and he runs rings around guards in keeping agro .. (even after fixing amends) guards offer very little right now.  As a Ranger (but i have one of each type of tank i play also) my choice of tank is the one whose hate builds each time i hit the mobs when his amends is on me.<div></div>

[Aaliamz]

All we can do is tank - when we can make the mob actually hit us. If I took unmitigated damage from the MT I would die on one hit to most serious raid mobs - and raids are the only part of the game that are important, from my perspective. This makes our interception skills worthless. Our skills that allow others to have extra avoidance checks are also worthless in a raid scenario as I would either be the MT or, if not, I would not be in the MT group anyway. The problem is, we don't tank especially well anymore, mainly due to aggro problems.  I am a guardian and even<b> I </b>wouldn't chose a guardian over a bezerker to tank <b>any</b> mob as the DPS classes would have to <b>hold back</b> on damage in order for the guardian to maintain aggro. They do not have to do this with our bezerker tanking (unless he is stunned). However, we have nothing else to offer the raid (our groups buffs are not bad, HP/def/wep skills, but of little use if I am not MT). Depsite the fact we are mitigation tanks, I have 55%+ avoidance when tanking leading to a fair amount of missing (that's good, but not when we have a taunt that procs when we are hit). Taunts are resisted quite often, and we have almost no DPS with which to hold aggro. Inflaming defense also roots us (or will have a heavy snare). This is a vital split second I have to use up to toggle off the skill if I lose aggro and suddenly I am out of rescue/reinforcements range. Casting our (very nice) 30s arts that add to our tanking abilites is also a problem. They are so slow to cast, and aggro is so fragile, that I often lose aggro while I stop meleeing to cast them - rendering me/them useless. On the plus side, I have nearly all my T5 and T6 skills at master now as no one else seems to be buying them these days. I would like to see: <ul> <li>Faster casting on : goading assault, wall of might, commading aura and plant (when it's fixed)</li><li>Less resistable taunts compared to other fighters to compensate for lack of DPS</li> </ul> [Enter the noob, T5 - wearing bruisers, who know everything about guardians and their issues]<div></div>

[Mig]

Inflaming defense and protection are good spells. On mobs that stun a lot, or power drain, we are the best tanks to keep aggro.

[Vorlak]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Axor wrote:<BR> <DIV>[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] phayax shut up alrdy =P</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You couldnt resist huh ? someone talks about improving my stupid d0rf and you have to take part on it ... [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] YOU HAVE VS ME ????</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Well im jokking...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Taunt dot seems lame to me honestly.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think our single mob taunt is pretty ok. On raid with a coercer or dirge i have not much of a problem with agro, our real problem is encounter taunts. they not tunned with encounter dmg of other clases.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>IMO they should repair lot of other things before than inflaming deffense wich i think is one of the best taunts we have.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>beside that, if they make us able to taunt without pushing the butons, root us in place etc... i would prolly go to a class that makes me feel like im a player, i dont want the concept of <FONT color=#ffff00>TVtank to be back .. yeah thats the old eq1 tanks, ( and most of melees ) that were watching tv at time they tanked raid mobs.</FONT></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Lol, yea I had a macro setup based on the raid command to TS or not with my ranger... So basicly I would turn on my range attack with a macro program go watch tv come back to a dead Fennin Ro.<BR>