Guardians and Test Server Facts

[Reebwen]

<div></div>Greetings Fellow GuardiansWell first I'd like to say that I don't really post too  much on the boards since I consider myself neutral on most issues andbeing a tester first I am always trying to look at problems  from both ends. Being from Test Server we tend to notice changespretty fast since our population is much lower then live servers. Here are the facts that I have observed since combat changeshave been introduced with Guardians. Prior to the combat revamp we had 3 full time dedicated Guardians. Now there is only 1which is me. Of those 2 others 1 had quit the game and the other had rerolled. I used to be able to get groups all the time, but itseems that crusaders and monk classes are the preferred tanks of choice now in groups. Don't get me wrong because I stillget groups, but only because I am wanted in a friends group in which we all know friends will overlook another friends short commingsmost of the time. I have talked to alot of Guards on various servers and most are waiting for a game right around the corner which Iwill not name because I would not endorce another game on SOE forums and are only sticking around because they have put somuch time already  into thier Guardians. I am also in this same situation. I am just hopeing that somebody somewhere has a reallygood plan to fix what is broken and does it soon.<span></span><div></div>

[Lyrus]

Not meaning to start any flames, but there's a difference between broken, and unbalanced. Seeing as the guardian class seems to have been the benchmark for the tank revamp, we as a class lost a bit and now lack in certain areas, much like the templars. This is something that's been beaten to death already, and all the points have been read by the devs if indeed they do read the guardian forums. If you want to talk balance, look at the big dispariety between Zerkers and ourselves, with something as simple as Taunting defense. This isn't to say that Zerkers should be nerfed, but that perhaps we should get something additional at the opposite end of the spectrum. Even something as minor as a % chance to proc a minor ward (something like 50 hp or so) or something. Aside from that, my best advice is to get whatever enjoyment you can out of the game, when and where you can get it. <div></div>

[Raahl]

<P>I totally agree with the original poster.  </P> <P>Our class is broken in spots and is underpowered.</P>

[Lyrus]

<div></div>**REMOVED DUE TO INAPPROPRIATE COMMENTS** - I've stated numerous times that we are looking into the matter. <div></div><p>Message Edited by Raijinn Thunderguard on <span class=date_text>12-07-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:29 PM</span>

[Greyto]

<P>first off I want to say thank you to the OP for even playing on test long enough to get to 60.</P> <P>Lyrus-D there is an entire thread dedicated to what guardians think is wrong with guardians. Considering that all those who have posted in it, and in all the other threads relating to the issue have been ignored I really do not see how listing them again will change anything.</P> <P>The phone is off the hook SOE is not answering. Guardians have been put on /ignor.</P> <P>Put me in the group "waiting on another game around the corner"</P> <P>Grey...</P>

[a6eaq]

Lyrus-D wrote: <DIV>Elaborate exactly what is broken? the OP hasn't listed anything in specific that's broken. Underpowered in certain areas I'll believe, but without specifics and research, posts like this will have very little impact. Bombard the devs with facts and not emotionally charged opinion, and eventually someone has to listen, at least I hope so for our sake.<BR> <HR> </DIV> <P>I can see your point about not liting specific problems, but if you check the Guardian forums, it is full of parses and any other type of data your heart can dream up in an attempt to show just where the devs went way wrong with us.  So far, there is no action other then tweaks and minor fixes to combat abilities and not one change to the reall issues of taunts being resisted etc.</P> <P>The op may not have listed any specific problems because everytime we do give proof, other class always start a flame war because they don't want to get nerfed and feel if we get fixed they will feel the wrath of the nerf bat.  The funny thing is, we don't want anyone to get nerfed, at least, most of us don't anyway.</P> <P>As for me, I feel that SOE has made EQ2 into a game for the hybrid classes.  If you take a look at group dynamics, it makes since.  It is easy to form a group with with more hybrid classes and it is easier to fill spots if a lot of the classes have similiar abilities.  In doing so they practically turn their backs on the specialized classes.  It is harder to keep pick-up groups going if peeps are more specialized.  Those specialists (warriors and clerics for instance) got left out in the cold. (IMHO)</P> <P>That or SOE is pulling the same crap they did with monks in EQ.  Let's nerf the be-jesus outta the classes that most feel are overpowered, get them to reroll new tunes or leave the game, then once only the true die hard are left, give them back a big chunk of their abilities.  I played a monk in EQ and that is how I saw that class go before EQ2 went live.  We will just have to wait and see how this game plays out.</P>

[Kain Hammersmith]

<P>I told myself that I was not going to post on the Guard forums unless our class was fixed and I began playing him again. I do read them everyday though. I keep seeing people say that we need to post constructive comments on what is wrong with our class and possible suggested fixes. WE HAVE, till we are blue in the face, WE HAVE!!! I hate to beat a dead horse, but we are being ignored. I gave up long ago on my Guard, except for harvesting. I rolled a Bruiser, cause if you cant beat them, join them. But I have a hard time playing this game from scratch again. Yes my Bruiser is lvl 30, has been for 2 weeks now, but the idea of redoing all those quests in EL and Zek, just sickens me. I did them, as many as I could find, I love quests, but they are only "new" once, and when you do it with a toon that you like and then get trashed by some dev, you feel abit betrayed.</P> <P>I feel for all the people still playing their Guard, I miss the days when me and my friends, most of them gone now, could go out and play together for hours on end. I am the leader of a guild. Most of the people that I joined with back in March are gone, only a few remain from the original crowd of people that I learned this game with. I miss them, the Beserker, Pally, TemplarX2, Ranger, Wizard, Bruiser, and Fury. They were great friends that I spoke with almost everynight on teamspeak. Now we have people that I dont even know, mostly because I am finding myself playing less and less, and the officers and other leader are still inviting new people in. Its great that some enjoy this change, I'm glad for you. But if my server, and smaller my guild, is any indication of what is happening to the game, I think that there are reasons to be concerned.</P> <P>Please make this game what it once was, and more!</P> <P>Peace</P>

[Ladicav]

<P><STRONG>Broken Fact</STRONG>: Agro generation and management. Of all the fighters we are the WORST at generating and holding agro on a single encounter. If we lose agro on a single encounter we are also perhaps the worst at being able to get it back. The only tool we have at our disposal is, Rescue and on the timer it has, it is a severely limited option. Shadowknights seem to have this same issue also, sharing the bottom of the food chain of agro generation with Guardians. Guardians are <EM>touted</EM> to be the best of ALL the fighters at agro management and agro generation, period, without any excuses. That is my definition of broken, said to be the best at something, but actually coming in last. </P> <P><STRONG>Underpowered Fact</STRONG>: In multi mob encounters, we share many of our AOE taunt abilities with all the other fighters anyway. The one thing that differentiates Guardians from the others is the HTL series of spells. In all other ways, all the other fighters have some kind of AOE generation of agro. For being <EM>touted</EM> to be the best of all fighters at agro management and agro generation period, without any excuses, having only one line that differentiates Guardians from the rest, is lame and underpowered.</P> <P>But do you think now there is a point that the devs need to address that it will get looked at? It's been like this for a long long time. If you look about at other threads that are filled with actual information and in game experiences from other Guardians, you will find there are good tips in there the devs should look at. But to date we have not heard boo from them.</P>

[Poochymama]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ladicav wrote:<BR> <P><STRONG>Broken Fact</STRONG>: Agro generation and management. Of all the fighters we are the WORST at generating and holding agro on a single encounter. If we lose agro on a single encounter we are also perhaps the worst at being able to get it back. The only tool we have at our disposal is, Rescue and on the timer it has, it is a severely limited option. Shadowknights seem to have this same issue also, sharing the bottom of the food chain of agro generation with Guardians. Guardians are <EM>touted</EM> to be the best of ALL the fighters at agro management and agro generation, period, without any excuses. That is my definition of broken, said to be the best at something, but actually coming in last. </P> <P><STRONG>Underpowered Fact</STRONG>: In multi mob encounters, we share many of our AOE taunt abilities with all the other fighters anyway. The one thing that differentiates Guardians from the others is the HTL series of spells. In all other ways, all the other fighters have some kind of AOE generation of agro. For being <EM>touted</EM> to be the best of all fighters at agro management and agro generation period, without any excuses, having only one line that differentiates Guardians from the rest, is lame and underpowered.</P> <P>But do you think now there is a point that the devs need to address that it will get looked at? It's been like this for a long long time. If you look about at other threads that are filled with actual information and in game experiences from other Guardians, you will find there are good tips in there the devs should look at. But to date we have not heard boo from them.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Actually as far as holding aggro we have tested it many times to determine our MT and we found Guards 3'rd from the Bottom on aggro generation and 2nd to the top on AOE aggro.</P> <P>All the test were done at capped strength and all adept III's and full cobalt/vanadium this is what we found</P> <P><STRONG>Single Target</STRONG></P> <P>Paladin</P> <P>Bruiser</P> <P>Monk</P> <P>Guardian</P> <P>Berserker</P> <P>Shadowknight</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P><STRONG>AOE</STRONG></P> <P>Paladin</P> <P>Guardian</P> <P>Berserker</P> <P>Shadowknight</P> <P>Bruiser</P> <P>Monk</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>As far as getting aggro back the guardian came in last unless he used reinforcement (in which case he came in first)</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Ladicav]

<P>So by your observations (and I don't agree that we hold agro on single target better than a beserker to be honest, I really think we are closer to second last in that list, but for arguements sake I'll just take your post as read) basically we come in second on AOE agro, and 3rd last on single target and <EM><STRONG>dead last</STRONG></EM> on getting agro back after we lose it, unless Rescue line is ready to be used.</P> <P>As per Moorgard himself, direct quote......</P> <P></P> <HR> <P>Although guardians are not the best-on-paper tank in every possible situation, they are the most stable and reliable tank in every fight. <STRONG>Tanking is not just avoiding and mitigating damage; it's holding aggro and helping the group recover from a bad situation. Those are the areas where the guardian excels, though they are also the hardest aspects of tanking to quantify or measure.</STRONG></P> <P></P> <HR> <P>So we are meant to "excel" in this area. Look up the definition of excel in the dictionary and you will see it does not mean coming second, 3rd last or even dead last at anything. Yet by simple observation Guardians are hardly the best at all around agro generation and maintenance.</P> <P>Guardian taunts/agro generation and maintenance = broken, and do not match what the devs themselves have envisoned the Guardians main strength to be, purely and simply.</P> <P> </P> <p>Message Edited by Ladicav on <span class=date_text>12-07-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:45 PM</span>

[MrDiz]

Yeah taunting is definately in never never land right now. I CAN keep aggro. And I CAN get it. But there are problems :1) I use all my power even when dps use just 10% of thiers. ALL the downtime is me.2) I dont dare pull unless all my taunts (especially AE) are ready, so no chain pulling. I need every taunt available at the start.3) I even loose aggro to bruisers 3 levels lower than me when they arent even taunting!

[Tro]

<DIV>For the going OOP situation, I would suggest for a future update that the heal proc on the Legendary Chest also replenish Power when it is active and your health is at 100% but power is not. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If it goes off and you are at 100% then it stays active for its duration but does nothing unless you are hit again. I have seen at the end of a fight the proc go off but I was </DIV> <DIV>healed by the hearler and at 100% health but the proc remains and like I said, does nothing until I am damaged again. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The proc is usually gone before the next pull. It would be nice to have it replenish power in that scenario atleast.. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just a thought</DIV>

[Drulak]

<P>Just to add to above post , <EM>we were last in getting aggro back unless we used (rescue line) of spells when we were first</EM>.</P> <P>The monk also has rescue , not sure about other fighters , but it wasn't a guard specific spell.  So did we come first over a monk using it as well ?? </P> <P>Because i cannot believe for a minute we did.  I could hold pull aggro onto my monk from a taunting zerker  3 levels higher than me - without doing anything but damage - no dragon stance or taunts. He did get aggro back once though.  </P> <P>If i taunt and use dragon stance and used rescue , there is no way that a guard would out aggro me. No way.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Allowin]

<DIV>**REMOVED DUE TO INAPPROPRIATE COMMENTS** <BR><BR>- I've stated numerous times that we are looking into the matter.<BR> <P>Message Edited by Raijinn Thunderguard on <SPAN class=date_text><FONT color=#756b56>12-07-2005</FONT></SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>10:29 PM</SPAN> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>yeah, whatever.</P> <P>and how many times did hitler say hes was NOT intending to take over the world?</P></DIV>

[Thor]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lyrus-D wrote:<BR> **REMOVED DUE TO INAPPROPRIATE COMMENTS** <BR><BR>- I've stated numerous times that we are looking into the matter.<BR> <P>Message Edited by Raijinn Thunderguard on <SPAN class=date_text>12-07-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>10:29 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Raijinn, I don't think many of us beleive in that anymore. Yes, you have stated it numerous times but nothing happens.<BR>I really would like to believe a fix is soon comming, but what do you expect us to believe when all we got is just these empty words???</P> <P>Why can't any of the gamedesigners come here and have a dialogue with us? Tell us what <STRONG>THEY</STRONG> think is wrong and how <STRONG>THEY</STRONG> want to fix it.</P> <P>How many more guardians must have to quit the game before you realize that this is a serious issue?<BR>I rarely play my 60 guardian now. Becuase he's a 60 provo, I log him in when I need food and drinks to my 56 Swashy and when a tank is needed in guild and no one else is online. But I, as many others, prefer to play with an alt that is actually fun play.</P> <P>I think the time is running out. No more "<EM>we are looking into the matter</EM>", please. Give us something we can believe in and do it <STRONG>now</STRONG>.</P>

[Sirrion77]

In Every game there is always some broken and unbalanced classes. Guardian was good tank pre-DoF now it's average or less, soon a LU or expansion is going to put back Guadian in front. That's how it always goes, we just need to explain clearly the issues and they going to be fixed eventually, you can quit temporally untill it's addressed or just stick with it knowning better days are coming soon. Sirriun <div></div>

[Berek_IronAxe]

<DIV>Thank you Sirriun-</DIV> <DIV>For a bit of common wisdom without the flames, anger, SOE Hate mongering or defeatism attitude.  I applaud your post.</DIV>

[JudyJudy]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Drulak wrote:<BR> <P>...use dragon stance and used rescue , there is no way that a guard would out aggro me. No way.</P> <P><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV><EM>/agree</EM></DIV>

[Poochymama]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ladicav wrote:<BR> <P>So by your observations (and I don't agree that we hold agro on single target better than a beserker to be honest, I really think we are closer to second last in that list, but for arguements sake I'll just take your post as read) basically we come in second on AOE agro, and 3rd last on single target and <EM><STRONG>dead last</STRONG></EM> on getting agro back after we lose it, unless Rescue line is ready to be used.</P> <P>As per Moorgard himself, direct quote......</P> <P></P> <HR> <P>Although guardians are not the best-on-paper tank in every possible situation, they are the most stable and reliable tank in every fight. <STRONG>Tanking is not just avoiding and mitigating damage; it's holding aggro and helping the group recover from a bad situation. Those are the areas where the guardian excels, though they are also the hardest aspects of tanking to quantify or measure.</STRONG></P> <P></P> <HR> <P>So we are meant to "excel" in this area. Look up the definition of excel in the dictionary and you will see it does not mean coming second, 3rd last or even dead last at anything. Yet by simple observation Guardians are hardly the best at all around agro generation and maintenance.</P> <P>Guardian taunts/agro generation and maintenance = broken, and do not match what the devs themselves have envisoned the Guardians main strength to be, purely and simply.</P> <P> </P> <P>Message Edited by Ladicav on <SPAN class=date_text>12-07-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>08:45 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Im not saying these are facts they are just what we have found when we were deciding on a MT.</P> <P>I do agree that guardians should be the best at holding aggro but saying you are the worst is simply not true.<BR></P>

[Poochymama]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Drulak wrote:<BR> <P>Just to add to above post , <EM>we were last in getting aggro back unless we used (rescue line) of spells when we were first</EM>.</P> <P>The monk also has rescue , not sure about other fighters , but it wasn't a guard specific spell.  So did we come first over a monk using it as well ?? </P> <P>Because i cannot believe for a minute we did.  I could hold pull aggro onto my monk from a taunting zerker  3 levels higher than me - without doing anything but damage - no dragon stance or taunts. He did get aggro back once though.  </P> <P>If i taunt and use dragon stance and used rescue , there is no way that a guard would out aggro me. No way.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Are you talking about my post?</P> <P> </P> <P>If you are we did not take rescue into consideration as all fighters have that skill. The skill I was talking about that allowed the guardians to be #1 at getting aggro back is called Reinforcement.</P> <P>Without that skill though they came in last ( and this shouldnt be)</P>

[KAM]

<div></div>Well I am waiting for vanguard but I will be keeping my accounts active for the next expansion .. to me there is nothing wrong with guardian class. It's just the game in general, I'm so [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] sick of doing a quest or completing an instance only to have it nerfed or upgraded 3 months later. I completed carpet quest at level 51 when it was still difficult (lvl 64 mob), now it's a piece of [Removed for Content]. The raid zones are exactly the same we're pretty much bored of all the zones by the time SOE decided to add loot in, so now it's the same as tier 5 already, boring farming for items we won't be using this time next year. Every day it's more obvious SOE doesn't test this game enough. They seemed to get on top of the game before DoF, but releasing the expansion too early just brought eq2 back to beta stages again and I can forsee exactly the same thing for the next expansion, they take ten steps backwards and one forwards. /rage <div></div>

[MrDiz]

<blockquote><hr>Sirrion77 wrote:In Every game there is always some broken and unbalanced classes. Guardian was good tank pre-DoF now it's average or less, soon a LU or expansion is going to put back Guadian in front. That's how it always goes, we just need to explain clearly the issues and they going to be fixed eventually, you can quit temporally untill it's addressed or just stick with it knowning better days are coming soon. Sirriun <div></div><hr></blockquote>Someone needs to tell Sony that so they abandon this communist vision of equality. Stop trying to make every toon equally as good at things and just make every toon desirable. The two are most certainly not the same thing, and the latter is actually within the realms of possibility, the former is not.Some desired for their raiding, some for small groups, some for solo, some for speicialisation, some for jack-of-all trades independance.But for future game companies: WHATEVER YOU DO, do NOT completely and utterly change the game beyond recognition a year into its life.

[ToonAr]

<BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> **REMOVED DUE TO INAPPROPRIATE COMMENTS** <BR><BR>- I've stated numerous times that we are looking into the matter.<BR> <P>Message Edited by Raijinn Thunderguard on <SPAN class=date_text><FONT color=#756b56>12-07-2005</FONT></SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>10:29 PM</SPAN> <BR></P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>When I was a child, my mother stated 'numerous times' that Santa Clause existed. Some 30 years later, I have yet to meet him...</P> <P>SoE must be quite a place to work for. I know for a fact that if I addressed our clients' complaints with nothing more than 'We are looking into it, please be patient' and still have nothing to show for it, I would be out of a job pretty quickly.</P> <P>To treat paying customers in this manner is an absolute disgrace, to put it politely.</P></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Greyto]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ToonArmy wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> **REMOVED DUE TO INAPPROPRIATE COMMENTS** <BR><BR>- I've stated numerous times that we are looking into the matter.<BR> <P>Message Edited by Raijinn Thunderguard on <SPAN class=date_text><FONT color=#756b56>12-07-2005</FONT></SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>10:29 PM</SPAN> <BR></P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>When I was a child, my mother stated 'numerous times' that Santa Clause existed. Some 30 years later, I have yet to meet him...</P> <P>SoE must be quite a place to work for. I know for a fact that if I addressed our clients' complaints with nothing more than 'We are looking into it, please be patient' and still have nothing to show for it, I would be out of a job pretty quickly.</P> <P>To treat paying customers in this manner is an absolute disgrace, to put it politely.</P></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>even though the ToonArmy and I are NOT the same person lol I could not agree anymore with that comment if we were.

[SGho]

<P>Here's another interesting fact.</P> <P>The higher our avoidance, the worse we are at tanking.</P> <P>Why?</P> <P>Because our primary source of aggro - Inflaming Defense - counts on us getting hit.</P> <P>The other night we were doing prismatics to catch some folks up.  We hit the drakotas in MM, CoD and the Lagoon.</P> <P>I am a 60 Guardian with full Cobalt/Fabled and all Adept IIIs.  I did nothing but spam my four Adept III taunts and use Inflaming Defense and I /constantly/ lost aggro, especially to the 56 Bruiser.</P> <P>A tank who cannot hold aggro and has no DPS is useless.</P>

[Pry]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ToonArmy wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> **REMOVED DUE TO INAPPROPRIATE COMMENTS** <BR><BR>- I've stated numerous times that we are looking into the matter.<BR> <P>Message Edited by Raijinn Thunderguard on <SPAN class=date_text><FONT color=#756b56>12-07-2005</FONT></SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>10:29 PM</SPAN> <BR></P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>When I was a child, my mother stated 'numerous times' that Santa Clause existed. Some 30 years later, I have yet to meet him...</P> <P>SoE must be quite a place to work for. I know for a fact that if I addressed our clients' complaints with nothing more than 'We are looking into it, please be patient' and still have nothing to show for it, I would be out of a job pretty quickly.</P> <P>To treat paying customers in this manner is an absolute disgrace, to put it politely.</P></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Not only to say "We're looking into it" but breaking a perfectly good product in the first place for the complaints of a few and the whims of a developer is unconsionable. 

[Sunrayn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Reebwen wrote:<BR> Greetings Fellow Guardians<BR><BR>Prior to the combat revamp we had 3 full time dedicated Guardians. Now there is only 1<BR>which is me. <BR><SPAN></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>What am I? chopped liver?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sunrayn, 51 guardian--test</DIV>

[Styk]

<DIV>Honestly yall i dont think getting agro is the problem for both warrior types ITS REGAINING AGRO WHEN LOST that is the BIG issue here..... rescue needs to be reduced in its recast timer ( IMO 1 min instead of 10 since its still resistable ) </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Guards are still the best at taking damage, ( from raid experiance trust me they are ) for single target tanking guard are far superior to zerkers... group thou i beg to differ to be honest with a previousposters ranking of zerkers lower the guard for group ( remember we get a huge PB ae taunt as well as rampage and openwounds which is huge ae dps and agro ) agro... </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>with the changes comming for guards in LU 18 yalls protection line of skills is starting to look better, but BOTH of our abilities to REGAIN agro needs a serious looking at still </DIV><p>Message Edited by Styker on <span class=date_text>12-10-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:00 PM</span>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Prynn wrote:<BR><BR>Not only to say "We're looking into it" but breaking a perfectly good product in the first place for the complaints of a few and the whims of a developer is unconsionable.  <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>/rofl</P> <P>I love your conspiracy theories.<BR></P>

[dparker7]

<P>Raijin, we know you're just an empty chair.  Someone here to sooth the masses with no authority or information.  Posting yet again with nothing to say is a waste of your time and ours.  </P> <P>Ive decided to add a new line to all my posts in this forum</P> <P>PS: Go away Gaige</P>

[Pry]

<P>**REMOVED TROLL POST**</P><p>Message Edited by Raijinn Thunderguard on <span class=date_text>12-15-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:04 PM</span>

[DaxxDea]

<DIV>The only thing keeping me playing is the fact we are still the best raid tank. If you are not a raiding player I couldn't see any reason under any circumstances you would ever want to play a Guardian. Not only are Guardians BY FAR the worst exp group tank but they are BY FAR the least fun to play. They get absolutely no fun or interesting skills to play with. Guardians are as plain as you ever could make a class, you may aswell make them EQ1 warrior where they just turn on auto attack and have one button to slam which is taunt.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In terms of holding single target agro its a joke. My bruiser can not only hold agro but steal agro off other tanks without ever casting even one taunt. The bruiser is not my main either its just an alt with alt gear and still holds agro way way better without using any taunts. He also tanks better in exp group as he barely gets hit with high avoidance.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Guardian is plain and simple the most boring and lame class to play ever. On raids its different cause you lead the raid and tank all the raid encounters(it helps you forget how lame your class is). I can't imagine a circumstance where someone who doesn't raid would ever want to play a Guardian.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am not even going to get into how are we are the tank which relies on having to cast taunts the most to hold agro and they made taunts the most resisted skill in the game when it should have been left unresistable</DIV>

[Gaige]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> Prynn wrote: <P></P> <P>Well if you like that one, how about these not-so conspiracy not-so theories:</P> <P>1)  During your current time as a low level computer programmer (which is the only logical job you could have because you post so much), your fondest wish is to work at SOE.  <FONT color=#ffff00>I'm not a computer programmer.  Never have been.  My computer knowledge is almost entirely hardware based.  So much for your logic, though citing my post count as a reference certainly shows the intelligence behind the assumption.  My fondest wish would be to have a Taco Bell Express built into my kitchen staffed 24/7.  Working for SOE would be cool, but what MMO gamer wouldn't say that?</FONT></P> <P>You wanted this since the days of SWG when you would post incessantly on their forums, sitting on a stack of yesterday's pizza boxes and surrounded by cans of Dr. Pepper.  You heard that Moorgard (who I know, he just doesn't realise who I am) got a job going from Altera Vita fanboi to writer on Mobhunter to SOE.  So therefore, if it could happen to him, it could certainly happen to someone with your character.  <FONT color=#ffff00>Wow such keen insight into my mind.  Cleo.. is that you... again?</FONT></P> <P>Here's a clue:  You're getting used.  But you won't see it because you are too busy puckering up on the sphincters of SOE employees begging for a job, and why would they give you a job when they already tried the "hire someone from the community" thing and it single handedly dismantled a perfectly good game.  <FONT color=#ffff00>I would beg for a job I suppose, except for the one I have is so amazingly easy with great hours.  I don't want to ruin what you have going on here though, so I'll go with it.  As for "hiring someone from the community" -- didn't Lum the Mad, Gallenite, Sanya Thomas, Furor.... oh nevermind nope, just Moorgard.  </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Which game got dismantled by the way?</FONT></P> <P>2)  Why'd you leave FOH?  Demo and Eloora too much for you to handle?  Did they hurt you widdle feelings all the time because even after you whined for an entire year about how your poor little monk was useless and tired, they still wouldn't let you tank the big raid mobs?  I mean, how are you going to participate in your little secret meetings (see Permafrost forums) with SOE employees if you still couldn't tank after they made Monks the best tank?  Pretty humiliating if you ask me.</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Main reason was because the officers were unhappy with SOE and the expansion and were playing Vanguard beta with the original leader of EQ2 FoH.  I dinged 60 and wanted to raid in <EM>this</EM> game so I went to a guild that does so.  I also wanted to play in a DKP guild.  As for some of the other reasons, you could probably ask half of the roster in The Tyrants.  Including Elkay who was an EQ1 FoH member.  Apparantly Noah and Mys were too much for him to handle also.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Besides, Noah let me tank a raid, thanks.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>I'm not sure what "secret meetings" you were told about... THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO BE SECRET.  I've been to the two summits and I attended Fan Faire.  I thought the posts about it and pics took away from its luster as secretive though, personally.</FONT></P> <P>How are things in Fantasy Land?  Can we come visit?  <FONT color=#ffff00>No.  My fantasy land has reached max capacity.</FONT></P> <P>3)  SOE throw you a bone by letting you moderate one of the forums without actually paying you?  That makes me laugh IRL, I suspect next they will let you start programming snippets of meaningless code without paying you either.  Or perhaps even let you be Raijinn Jr. and you can ban people such as myself who question the status quo!  Then you can have your ego and no criticism too, wouldn't that be sweet?!</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>I have no idea where or what this is about.  Ah well, I'll just let it hurt my feelings as intended.</FONT></P> <P>4)  You have nothing to say in a negative fashion about SOE, even when you were incessantly whining about your worthless monk because you are so dedicated to getting a job there, and yet a year later....no job.  Hmmm, wonder why?  Even though you are the joke of almost everyone in the community, and half the employees at SOE, you still keep on like you have no self-respect or dignity.</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>SOE is perfect and amazing, I could never talk about them negatively.  I'm glad you are so concerned about my welfare and well-being though.  I'm touched, truly.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>As for being the joke to almost everyone in the community... /cry I was shooting for everyone not just almost.  Thanks for breaking my heart with your hurtful truths!</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>I'm not sure what self-respect and dignity are, sorry.</FONT> </P> <P>/conspiracy on.</P> <P>P.S.  When you write Moorgard your little daily e-mail later, tell him I said hello. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>No.  The limited amount of space my email client gives me is reserved for telling him how great he is.</FONT></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><p>Message Edited by Gaige on <span class=date_text>12-12-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:02 AM</span>

[Ladicav]

<DIV>I can say 1000% that I would not want to work for SOE. So I for one as an MMORPG player can easily refute that claim. It would be an exercise in complete frustration working as a programmer at SOE. Allowing the release of half finished product with full knowledge, which also contains bugs seems to be a thing that is rewarded at SOE. You could probably even get promoted if you do it enough, while pointing the finger at some poor shmuck they would use as the token scapegoat. Programmers and programming managers having to live up to upper echelons unrealistic delivery dates most likely has a large part to do with this, so I expect those people who call the shots are probably complete [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]s or have pressure put on them by complete [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]s. Ever tried to get a valid and pertinent point across at your work to someone who holds a senior postion over you who is a complete [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]? If you have, then you know what this feeling of frustration is like. If the chain of command right from the junior programmer to the in house manager isn't competent and has their finger on the pulse at all times, it is going to fail somewhere. SOE has this problem, either people don't communicate with each other, or certain people live in some fantasy land where they think everything is rosy and going along smoothly when others in the company know what the real deal is. In house testing of changes has got to be next to nil, as evidenced in some of the most innane bugs that get released not only with the game and expansions but even in rudimentary patches and updates. Quality control is low, but the direction of what the game should be is lower. Fancy working for a company that does not even believe in its own product, even as far to the degree of completely overhauling the entire basis of the combat system, for whatever reason they try to justify it, it does not matter. You just have to ask why they released what they did in the first place, if the entire team wasn't happy with it? So no, working for SOE would be a complete headfuk. I wouldn't know if I was coming or going. But you keep going on thinking it would be cool Gaige and keep sucking up, you might be able to one day fulfill your dream and get to work in this environment, because it sounds great.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If I did these kinds of things in almost any other software house, I'd be out on my [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] looking for another job and my boss would throw me a reference calling me incompetent to go with it, and rightly so. I would rather work for a company I would be proud to be in with better job satisfaction, that delivers quality product, first time every time and a level of performance and customer service that the general public would rightly expect.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Ladicav on <span class=date_text>12-12-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:45 AM</span>

[Pry]

<P><FONT color=#ffff00>Main reason was because the officers were <FONT color=#ff0000><STRONG>unhappy with SOE and the expansion</STRONG></FONT> and were playing Vanguard beta with the original leader of EQ2 FoH.</FONT></P> <DIV>Did you incessantly whine at them in guild too and berrate them for how wrong they were?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>LOL, don't B.S. everyone about how sweet and kind-hearted Demontheses (i.e. Noah) is.  I was guilded with him in EQ1.  I like him very much as a person, but I can't believe his personality would mesh well with the "SOE is mah girlfriend" attitude that you have.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Whatever man, just keep on believing that I don't know anything about anything and I will keep showing the community the truth behind all the little B.S. you try to hide from anyone in order to further posture to SOE.  See, the difference between me and most of these other people is that I know about the crap you're spewing, because I have played (for years, I might add) with the majority of the people you are yapping about.  And I know about all the little back-room, closed door crap and payola type junk that goes on at SOE Headquarters.  I can understand why you would want to hide it though, don't want to let the community know about it because it would shut the door on your dream job and Barbie Corvette Convertible. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>P.S.  I believe you should re-check your facts about who they hired directly from the community (SOE) and who was someone who got hired and just happened to play the game.  There's a big difference you know.  </DIV>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Prynn wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>P.S.  I believe you should re-check your facts about who they hired directly from the community (SOE) and who was someone who got hired and just happened to play the game.  There's a big difference you know.  <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Is it?</P> <P>As for the drama, take it somewhere else.  Maybe start an Enquirer dealing with MMOs and guild drama.  I could care less.  Opinions of those who only know of me via forums and a videogame aren't high on my list of priorities.<BR></P>

[Pry]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gaige wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>  Opinions of those who only know of me via forums and a videogame aren't high on my list of priorities.</BLOCKQUOTE> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Strange from someone who has 7516 posts soliciting the opinions of people who only know of you on videogames or forums....</P>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> Prynn wrote:<BR>Strange from someone who has 7516 posts soliciting the opinions of people who only know of you on videogames or forums....<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Is it?  I post to share my opinion on the game and other's viewpoints of it.  Rarely, if ever, do I address the posters themselves.</P> <P>Besides, 7500 is chump change, I think the high on this board is over 11000 now.</P><p>Message Edited by Gaige on <span class=date_text>12-12-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:04 PM</span>

[dparker7]

Yep, a mere average of around 20 posts a day.  No wonder its impossible to get you to directly answer a question that you'd actually have to examine your viewpoint to respond to - you've got no time as you're busy skimming hte next post to continue to spread your ill-informed views.

[Kain Hammersmith]

<DIV>Guards, we need to keep the discussion on these boards about Guardians. Gaige will continue to come in and post things about something he knows nothing about no matter what we do. The best way to deal with him is to never respond or reply to anything he says. I have asked him in a PM to give his ideas on our issues, I even asked on a thread. I got no real feedback and still havent recieved a reply to that PM. He only comes here to insure that we do not get a thread started about our issues, or he comes to derail one that is full of good suggestions. Also, if we dont flame him or his class then we might have a better chance of grabbing the attention of the Devs so we can get some useful changes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks.</DIV> <DIV>P.S. I will not reply to any flame about me, so dont even try to get me going.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Kain Hammersmith on <span class=date_text>12-13-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:02 PM</span>

[Raijinn]

<DIV>Please lets keep the personal attacks to a minimum folks.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thank you.</DIV>

[DanielAtchison]

<DIV><SPAN>Raijinn Thunderguard</SPAN> can you see that Gaige is trying to get under our skin? lol hes replying to most of our posts with crap responces that mean nothing, he doesnt know what  guardians are going thru cuz he doesnt play one. hes just trying to make it look like our class and most likely everyother class in below standard compared to his class. we are talking about our problems with the class and ways to fix it and hes saying there is nothing wrong and trying to say other crap. block the little [Removed for Content] out of the guardian fourms for a few and then you might see less attacks on people including Gaige.</DIV> <DIV>On another note. fix the defence stance and maybe add a taunt in it or a proc like the brawlers offence stance so we can keep our aggro.</DIV>

[Banef]

Come on guys they're looking into it.<img src="http://www.spa.uk.net/blindfolded.jpg" height="152" width="183">My Guard is going to hit 40 this week, I keep wishing I rolled a pally but meh will see. I really am getting a first hand feel at the problems. I'm having fun tanking either way even if my necro friend's pet peels off me like crazy in a trio group when I'm taunting like crazy. Hopefully someday things will change.  I'd like each of the devs to go out and find interns to level 1 Pally, 1 Zerker, 1 Bruiser, and 1 Guardian, don't twink them and play them with groups of normal players. Then report back on what happened to your team, there's no way they'd all say the same things. Make sure the Guard intern has hair to begin with so you can see him with it all ripped out  <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  But anyways, glad to see there is a 60 on test, keep at it man the community needs you!<div></div>

[iciss19]

<P>"Greetings Fellow Guardians<BR><BR>Well first I'd like to say that I don't really post too  much on the boards since I consider myself neutral on most issues and<BR>being a tester first I am always trying to look at problems  from both ends. Being from Test Server we tend to notice changes<BR>pretty fast since our population is much lower then live servers. Here are the facts that I have observed since combat changes<BR>have been introduced with Guardians. Prior to the combat revamp we had 3 full time dedicated Guardians. Now there is only 1<BR>which is me. Of those 2 others 1 had quit the game and the other had rerolled. I used to be able to get groups all the time, but it<BR>seems that crusaders and monk classes are the preferred tanks of choice now in groups. Don't get me wrong because I still<BR>get groups, but only because I am wanted in a friends group in which we all know friends will overlook another friends short commings<BR>most of the time. I have talked to alot of Guards on various servers and most are waiting for a game right around the corner which I<BR>will not name because I would not endorce another game on SOE forums and are only sticking around because they have put so<BR>much time already  into thier Guardians. I am also in this same situation. I am just hopeing that somebody somewhere has a really<BR>good plan to fix what is broken and does it soon."</P> <P>  L</P> <P>MA</P> <P>O</P>